Pretty cool stuff, says they have true 24p, and variable frame rate on one of the models.
http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/6446

Too bad the lower priced 330 doesn't feature the different frame rates as its big brother. At that price point it should. The capacity of the storage is very good, though. Hope that ends up being a winner for Sony. The price is the only reason I probably won't be looking in to this camera.

OK, I have looked at the pdf brochure and although you can offload proxy's via FW what about the full rez source?

To support 35 Mbps you will need S400 FW - but does the camera allow full source download to the computer or is it strictly deck only? This will of course seriously affect the price for a package...

Cameras allow rull rez transfers thru firewire!

I think I've decided that the 330 is my next camera, but I'm fuzzy on workflow (tech challenged). Assuming I'm using FCP 5.04, would the 330 firewire in to my Mac in the same manner that a Panny DVX does? Do I need one of those cards (Kona, etec) to capture? What format would I output to? Sorry for the lame questions, appreciate any info.

Thanks.

There's two options.

The first is to record footage in 25mbps mode on the camera and then ingest to FCP like any other HDV camera. But you don't get the benefit of the higher datarates or the XDCAM workflow that way.

The second is to record 35mbps and transfer the MXF files off the disc into FCP. But there is a problem. Apple have never properly supported XDCAM in FCP. They have left it to people to use a third party app called Flip4Mac in order to import XDCAM files into FCP. And I'm not sure if that program yet supports HD XDCAM. No doubt it will, but I'm not sure if it does just yet.

XDCAM HD Seminar

Presented by Sony and Hollywood Studio Rentals

When: Wenesday March 15, 2006 @ 7PM

Where: Hollywood Studio Rentals
620 South Flower St
Burbank, CA
91602
818-526-0101

RSVP to:
XDCAM_HD@YAHOO.COM
Name, Address, Phone, Email

Hands On Demo, Projected Footage, Presentation

Great -- thanks for the info Sean!

Our buddy Mike Curtis at HD For Indies has published some notes he took on an XDCAM HD presentation at the South By SouthWest film festival in Austin. They're on his blog at this link:

http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/03/sxsw-panel-xdcam-hd-mini-meeting

Enjoy,

By Douglas Spotted Eagle
http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technology/pvr/6302.html

Thanks for this link, Michael. DSE provides a nice, quick overview of the F350.

The dvxuser.com member NBCshooter posted this:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=503065&postcount=7
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=503096&postcount=10
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=503111&postcount=13

He is saying that was the Sony people that info him about this. What does it mean? Do we need to buy a deck to achieve "true progressive"? Isn't it enough to transfer the files (any 35Mbps HD file) via firewire from the cam itself to any PC? Of course, XDCAM-HD compatible? In order to get any HD recordable modes?

I've been reading that's not possible to HDV compatible streams but I've been thinking differently to 35Mbps "true progressive" or interlaced, or am I wrong?

The progressive frame information is held within an interlaced stream. Sony call this PsF (Progressive Segmented Frame). This is true progressive scan, and is pretty much how every progressive scan camera stores its information with the exception of 720p cameras.

The F900 and HDW-750 shoot progressively using PsF. The DVX100 uses a similar method too, as do the DSR-450, and PDW-510/530 cameras.

So, to have "true progressive" or PsF (whatever) it means that we need to buy a deck as well? Or the camera itself (the PDW-F330 model or the 350 one) will it be enough as a sort of deck to handle the PsF (with all its necessary and full information) to a PC? At 35Mbps quality, of course.

Thank you.

No. The camera records true progressive. You do not need a deck.

XDCAM is file based, ie you drag and drop the video files that it creates from the XDCAM disc onto your hard drive. This is done faster than realtime. There is no streaming of footage needed. Any NLE will handle the progressive scan files just like any other progressive scan camera such as the DVX100, DSR-450, PDW-510/530 etc etc. There is nothing special about the way the progressive scan in this camera is done. And there are no special hardware requirements needed to be able to see it.

Just been looking more at the gamma curves for the XDCAM HD cameras. Although I stand by what I said in an earlier thread about obtaining more range from cameras, there does seem to be an exception in this case.

On the PDW-510 and 530 the STD gamma still has a smooth highlight roll-off. The FLM gamma curves make this roll off smoother and the output never reaches 100ire.

The STD gamma on the XDCAM HD however appears to have a very hard clip with hardly any highlight roll-off at all. This would explain why the Texas Shootout found that the highlights clipped so soon. As mentioned before the default knee point on the XDCAM HD is set to 100%.

The CINE gamma curves on the XDCAM HD however have a very smooth highlight roll-off. The shadow tones seem to be lowered somewhat, but the resultant flat picture would appear to gain more latitude. I was told by Sony that the Cine curves on the XDCAM HD are the same as those in the Version 2 software for the HDW-750. This may well be the case.

Simon,

I noticed the problem right away after I received a F350 and did the first test shots, but I think it can be addressed easily. They was no color saturation in picture hightlights, just white hallows. I went through the paint menu and noticed that the Knee saturation was set at .... zero. I cranked it to 150 and now, the knee circuitry is working properly and picture highlights stay nicely saturated. I hope our friends at the Texas HD shootout corrected the knee saturation on their test camera otherwise, the results are going to be ugly...

Thierry.

Hey Thierry, good to see you here!

I would be careful of knee saturation as it can sometimes be overcooked. Usually I leave it set to default on the 510 because the True Eye processing usually works fine on its own. Did you notice whether the knee sat on the 350 could go into negative figures?

I'll check if it is okay to release the gamma curves of the cameras and put them up on my website.

From the Sony CineAlta site, a pdf reprint of from Film and Video mag...of issues with blue/green screen for ILM and StarWars (article by John Knoll). Done in laymans terms. Interesting issues with 1080p and 4:2:2 video.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/cinealta/docs/FV_StarWarsReprint_5-05.pdf

I sent my produucer out to California with my Sony DSR-500, and forgot to give him the camera plate!

The shoot is tomorrow (5/3) morning

So...need a Sony Camera Plate in Orange County, CA...if you have one please call

John @ 703.725.7027

Thanks

Matt G

Call Promax in Irvine---they might have one they can rent to you.

Rex is right. ProMax is your answer.

Open at 8am, directions at http://www.promax.com/CustomerService/Directions.html

Excellent link, thanks Joe. Especially enjoyed the section "Nine pieces of advice on shooting HD and HDCAM SR." Nice to meet you at NAB by the way,

Thanks, likewise. It's nice to finally have faces with the names.

Sorry to repost this stupid timecode issue but I think I have uncovered my problem with Vegas.

In capturing my HDCam 1080i tapes into my computer via firewire from the J-H3, the deck recognizes drop vs. non drop. If you all will remember, the 3 cam crew that shot my footage had 2 cams set to drop and 1 cam set to non drop.

I decided to invest another rental charge to recapture my footage. If you also remember, the first time I captured, I used a window burnof the timecode on the video for editing purposes. That's where all of the edl issues came into play. Anyway, I need to recapture so I can remove the window burn.

The deck has a setting on it to select drop vs. non drop. When I put the tape in, there is a clue on the display that auto recognizes which one. I then made the appropriate setting change and then captured. No one will believe this. When I rewound the tapes, some of them were non drop during the tone and bars and then magically changed to drop when shooting the footage. Obviously, I had better things to do during capture so after 2-3 tapes (of 40 total!) I only paid attention to the display at the beginning of the tape and then walked away. I know for a fact that this happened because I saw it on one of the last tapes captured.

My question is this. Does it even matter if the tapes are drop or non drop? Once the stream enters my computer, it is what it is. Frames don't continue to drop during the capture do they? Even if I tell the deck drop or non drop? Is that setting just for output (which the J-H3 can't do anyway?

I was ready to start my edit process all over again but don't weant to invest the time after all if this drop vs non drop issue will affect my edit.

I don't understand how these issues will affect me after the footage is on tape.

Can anyone explain?

Jeff MAck

Jeff,
You may be lucky. The switch on the deck may not change anything on the firewire transfer. You definitely should check your transfers on the computer to see if the timecode matches compared to the tapes.
Usually the switches on the decks are for recording incoming signals not for changing the signal from firewire on playback. Of course you can't be sure unless you check. Sony has a support line which you can call them on questions by the way. Sony Posse (800-883-6817)
I don't know what Vegas does to allow you to see info about the clip and whether it makes a new clip when there is a timecode break. My old Media 100 used to warn me if there was a timecode problem on the clip. Not sure what other newer NLE's tell you about this issue.

I know I asked Simon this already but do any of you have (besides the sony demo footege) footege or could shoot a short clip with the XDCAM 24p filmlook?

I wont be going out to Promax for a few weeks to test the units in person and would love to see footege ahead of time

(footege trying to take advantage the cinealta, filmlike gamma settings.)

Thanks for the help.
-Mike

Anybody have any experience with this camera and its low light performance? Is it comparable to a 1/2" DV Camera or is a bit less light sensitive? Also, anyone of you using the 330 or 350 to deliver nature oriented projects to Discovery or National Geographic----will they accept the format because it is of higher quality then typical HDV?

Low light performance is rated at f9@2000 lux.

Discovery HD has recently decided to accept XDCAM HD as an unrestricted delivery and shooting format (ie you can shoot a whole programme on it) as long as the 35mb/s recording mode is used. I'm not sure if this is in their official guidelines yet, but I had this information direct from one of the top Sony guys over here. This was supposed to have been announced at NAB, but maybe it got lost in the noise?

I've just placed a new article about PDZ-1 up on my website at http://www.simonwyndham.co.uk/PDZ1.htm

I'll be expanding on the functions of this underrated piece of software over the next few days. THis may be of limited use to XDCAM HD owners until the NLE makers catchup. But for SD XDCAM users they can use the functions right now, while XDCAM HD owners can get an idea of what they will be able to do soon.

I was curious about which mode to capture in if I want to basically work with the footage as hdv right alongside hdv capture at 1080i60 from an fx1? I thought I'd seen that this camera shoots hdv, but now that I've got the camera, I don't see that setting anywhere (although it looks like the codec may be the same). I know that this won't be the highest level of capture, but it will provide a workflow we can use right away.

Is this something I set the camera for, or is it how I use the mxf transfer?

Thanks,
Max

Max,

You would want to use the 25mbs CBR mode which is LP. They use odd naming for the three levels of capture, SP, LP, and HQ.

LP is the mode that matches the data rate of HDV. However, with true 1440 horizontal resolution and larger chips, you could still see a better picture with the XDCAM HD so some in camera tweaking might be necessary to get a closer match to the HDV camera.

-gb-

25Mb is SP (standard play) 35Mb is HQ (high quality) and 18Mb is LP (long Play).

25Mb CBR is very close to HDV and most HDV applications can handle the files provided they can decode/un-wrap the MXF file.

Has anyone experimented with fx rendering/colour correction at 35Mb/s vs 25Mb/s?

I'm curious to know whether or not the extra bandwidth makes a significant difference. Does the 35Mb/s rate hold up significantly better to post manipulation than standard HDV compression?

While not expecting miracles, I'm really hoping to hear some positive news on this one. Thanks in advance.

35Mb is definately more robust. You can see the difference clearly when you try to colour correct similar clips, the 35Mb clips can be pushed harder.

I'm approaching shooting in a couple of weeks, and we'll be shooting with a first generation Sony f900, which shoots 720p or 1080i. It doesn't have the capability to shoot 1080p like later model CineAlta's do.

My question is this: Is it better to shoot 1080i and then later use software to convert to 720p? Or is it better to shoot straight 720p within the camera itself?

I'd assume the latter will result in a better image quality, but I've been told there's no visible difference. Figure'd I'd bring it to the experts here. Thanks!

James are you sure? To my knowledge HDCAM cameras have never been able to shoot 720p, and the F900 has always been capable of 1080p, even in its first incarnation.

I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong though.

Backing up Simon. None of the Sony cameras have ever shot 720p to my knowledge, and the first F900s always had 24p capability.

Sounds like you might have your hands on an HDW-700A, a 1080i camera only.

Also, no matter what you are working with, I don't think it's wise to shoot one format and then cross-convert just to edit. The time and money involved will almost certainly be more than it would cost to get the camera/format you need in the first place.

Hi All,

I've read through the majority of the posts on this forum, to try and find out as much information as I can regarding this camera. But being a relative 'newbie' to the area of professional production, I need a couple of bespoke answers to questions, or a little help on where to find the information if that's at all possible?

I'm currently running with 2 Canon XL1s's, a Canon XM-1 (GL1 i think in US) and a Canon XL2.

I produce DVDs of Motocross events throughout the UK, and have now a chance to produce some things for TV. We are also going to do Podcasting (studio type show) for Motocross fans too as our own project.

I've been looking at the XDCAM HD because when we film, we film probably 5 hours/day, with 4 cameras, meaning 20 hours of recorded footage to sift through and record to desktop. Which roughly translates to 3 days without the use of an edit machine after logging and manual tape changes etc. The XDCAM without the need for logging sure would be a great feature for us. The XDCAM workflow seems terrific, and would save us an awful lot of time here, meaning the cameras cost would eventually pay off on production time.

My first question is, the transfer of data from camera to edit, how long would it take? Each camera would record 1 race at 20mins per race. If for instance I just wanted to edit 1 race, and had to pull one clip from each camera for multi-cam edit, how long would it take for transfer? I found lots of references to 'faster than real-time' but couldn't find anything to specifically say, it takes X amount of time to transfer a specific size of file.

My second question, I know that there are MANY different frame rates, bit rates etc, but running the highest level bit-rate (35mbits) for use on television/dvd, is it possible for Premiere Pro 2 to handle, running both edit stations on P4 3Gig, 2gb ram, 128mb graphics, 1tb storage each.

Using the canon's on all my previous productions enabled me to run the standard lenses, using auto-focus. The majority of the time this provided great results. The 330 has the Auto focus lens, how good is this lens? I've seen many posts referring to an SD lens on this camera providing so-so/soft results, i know this is an HD lens, but how good are the results? Can it still be used as a Manual lens in the same way any other lens is used?

Final question, I will need to purchase 4 of these cameras, and the budget is a main issue (like always) would it be recommended to get a XDCAM VTR, and if so which model? I've seen there are two (F70 & F30). What is the advantage of the F70 over the F30 that gives it a price tag of double? I've read through the bumph on specifications etc, but in my scenario, what would you experienced pro's recommend for my situation?

I really appreciate any responses you may provide. I hope my questions haven't been answered before, i've trawled the majority of this forum finding lots of great information, but none specifically led me to the answers to these questions. If you have the time to reply, I thank you.

Regards
Martin Downer

Transfer rate depends on the bit rate you record at. For 35mb transfer is approx 1.5 x real time, for 25mb or DV you are at about 1.8x real time using the camera as a source. The decks are about 30% faster. But it's not quite as simple as that, you also need to consider that you should never get dropped frames or aborted transfers as you are transfering data so even if the computer/drive or whatever is running slow then the transfer rate slows as opposed to stopping or dropping frames as with tape. Also you will have accurate time code, you can instantly access any of the clips on the disk without cueing and you can (or will) depending on the software be able to import in the background allowing you to start editing before you've finished capturing. So overall I am finding that I am able to get most projects from disk and onto my edit suite in half the time that it takes with tape and with far fewer issues.

At the moment the only plugin for PPro 2 that will handle 35Mb or 25Mb XD is the mainconcept plugin. At the moment this has a bug in it's memory handling which I have been assured will be fixed in the next few weeks. With this plugin you will be able to edit in realtime and then export back to disk. Note that to import you simply use the Sony PDZ software and drivers to open the disk and import the file by copying them from the camera to your hard drive, export is a case of dragging your rendered final file back to the camera.

HD autofocus systems tend to be slower than SD autofocus. If you are working on HD then you will find HD focus to be both critical and tricky. With SD you can be a little out of focus and not be able to see it. With HD if the focus isn't absolutly spot on then it really show. I have no experience of the auto focus lens so I cannot comment, but I have yet to hear anyone say anything positive about it, other tan the price. My opinion is that you really really need to have the very best lens you can afford and I'm not convinced that autofocus would cope with fast moving bikes.
The autofocus len can be used in manula mode, but it is a servo lens with no direct connection between the focus ring and the optics, so you will suffer from the same lag and lack of repeatability that you get with most consumer camcorders.

F30 doesn't record from external inputs such as SDi or Component, F70 does. You could us a camera as a source/record deck. Unlike tape there are no heads as such to wear out, however you will be putting extra hours on the disc drive, although I believe this should last somewhere around 8,000 hours and even then is cheapish to replace, certainly cheaper than re-heading a pro vtr. The decks are faster when it comes to proxy access and file transfers.

I would NOT buy F330's, unless you get them with the F350 viewfinder. The F330 VF is really not up to HD work. It's a 1.5 inch 4:3 CRT so if you working with HD or 16:9 SD you get a tiny letterboxed image and it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) to be sure that you are in focus. The F350 VF is a 2" widescreen VF so the image is almost twice the size.

Many users are reporting good, certainly useable results with half inch SD lenses. I think you should consider trying to pick up 4 used good quality SD lenses and 4 x F350's with a view to upgrading the lenses at a later date. I also think that once you start to go down the HD road you will find HD-SDi far more useful than component.

Yet more competition, which should be good for prices :-)

http://www.inphase-technologies.com/news/MaxellExhibit.html

Thanks for the reply! Very inciteful.

1.5x would be extremely useful for us, and the fact i can transfer the files in the background while editing the first race say, is actually a bonus i never thought would be possible.

The main concept sounds good, ill do a bit of a google on that one later tomorrow when I get back from todays filming session. Does it crash the system or something? Hope they get it fixed soon.

When you talk about a slow HD autofocus, would it still be the same if i was capturing in 25mb DVCAM? Sorry if thats a stupid question...

What is the advantage of recording HDSDi? If you can transfer the full 35mb files from the camera to computer in 1.5x realtime, then how is having to playback at 1x an advantage?

So would you recommend the F330 camera at all? If i got the F350 viewfinder or a studio VF or something like that? I need someone's professional oppinion on this so that I can make a more informed choice!

Many users are reporting good, certainly useable results with half inch SD lenses.
When you say 'certainly useable' this seems to me like a real negative view on the lenses. Would this still be good enough for TV? Would it be noticable to someone who watches TV and has no knowlegde of cameras/lenses etc.

As you can tell i'm a newbie to HD also! So thanks for your help, and understanding.

Regards
Martin

Barely worth a post, but just a weird little bit of a story.

Returning home around noon from Burbank just 45 minutes ago, and realized 2 cars ahead of me is a black Tahoe with a rear facing stabilizer mount and remote head. Not that noteworthy, as you see production vehicles on their way to shoots all the time in my neighborhood, sometimes the cameras are mounted on the pictures cars already, etc etc.

Anyway, as I pull up to get a better look, I realized it was a 350 on the remote head! Kinda odd I thought, as XDCAM HD is still very much a "wha?" to most production people, even in Los Angeles. THEN I realized the tally light was on and he was rolling on me. Yow.

I have no idea what they were doing...my neighborhood is pretty but all they were was driving down the street rolling and following cars passing them, etc.

For the curious, the mount is something Chapman makes called the Super VI. It operates like a single section of steadicam arm, except it's motion is limited to strictly up and down. On top of that, there's another stage that slides laterally. Both together do a pretty good job of smoothing out a vehicle.

Haven't heard anything about the XDCAM HD update. No buffering yet?

Also, has anyone had any success in getting the front mic pot to function correctly. I've set mine in the menu to adjust channel-1 from the first side pot and the front pot, but the front pot doesn't do anything.

edit---sorry missed the USB drive thread

Also, has anyone had any success in getting the front mic pot to function correctly. I've set mine in the menu to adjust channel-1 from the first side pot and the front pot, but the front pot doesn't do anything.

Works okay for me. I like having it set up to control 1 and 2 from side and front. That way, the 1 and 2 pots allow me to mix, while the front serves as a master fader.

-gb-

Front pot works for me too.

I have a PDW-510 and PDW-F350 and I found the viewfinder picture of the F350 to be quite soft and grainy compare to the PDW-510. Both cameras have the same viewfinder, only the cable differs. It makes it a bit hard to work on the F350 as you are always wondering if you are in focus or not. This is not a good thing when working with HD...

I played with the peaking adjustment a bit but that does not help much. I checked an other F350 and found its viewfinder quite soft too. I think the problem actually lies in the quality of the downconverted signal sent to the viewfinder on the F350. I hope there is room for improvement in the firmware for this.

Anyone had a chance to compare both cameras?

Thierry.

I've found my F350 VF to be one of the better viewfinders I've had. Maybe Simon will comment on this as he has used the 510 as well.

I have to confess that I didn't really have too much trouble with the 350 I had. I didn't find it to be too different in use to the 510.

Although having said that I think that with the high def cameras they could do with better, higher res viewfinders.

Hi there. We were looking for a good basic UV/lens protector to screw on the top of our Fuji HD lens. Does anyone have any recommendations? In the past we've just used Tiffen stuff, but maybe not for this quality lens.

Thanks,
Max