So how the Mini35 works? No PCX, cause I haven't seem complains of distortions.

Not sure about the mini35, not sure many people know the optical setup of that, but i know the m2 does not use a PCX, but i have heard some have had trouble with vignetting.

Wayne, didn';t you say there was a sweet spot though?

Leo,
Its a trade off. You can move the PCX away from the ground glass, which will remove the distortion but start to give you more chromatic aberration.

Ben,

Did you notice the barreling before the Century optics?

Yes. I guess that makes it the the macro.

So your saying you had the distortion before and after the century optics macro?

Well the PCX on the letus mostly cancelled it out, but depending on the distance it would get better or worse.

Where is everyone getting their 120mm PCX lenses from these days?

BTW -- if someone wants a Beattie screen (the smaller one, clear matte finish for the Contax), let me know. I've got an entirely unused screen here I just bought from B&H and have decided to use something else. Cost to me was $93 plus shipping, so I'd sell it for the same to anyone interested. Ordering it from B&H took a while -- I'd send it off w/in one day of ordering.

consider it sold....pmail me.

consider you pmailed.

Any new developments Ben? Seems like maybe you ran into trouble. I ordered a beattie screen, and also pre-ordered G35. I want to buy the high-lux version, so I'm hoping that the Letus can serve as my low-lux with the beattie installed. So I'm curious to see how it's going for you. Have you had to clean the beattie yet?

I would suggest the following test:

TEST I

1) Before changing the Letus' focusing screen to the Intenscreen, shoot a good color chart with the original Letus GG and a line and pattern chart taking care not to pass the upper 80 IRE limit. Note the f value of the 35mm objective and the f value of the camera objective (e.g. objective).

Keep track of distance and angles and magnification, in order to ensure quasi-identical pictures.

2) After installing the Beattie Intenscreen repeat the same operation, conforming to the same upper 80 IRE limit.

Post the results as TIFF pictures (no further compression !).

TEST II

Create shooting conditions allowing to evaluate bokeh, CA and other artefacts.

Post the results.


Until then, the superiority of the Beattie solution remains an unsubstantiated claim.

Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted here in a while, I've been busy with a TV project that's due Tuesday--and we haven't even finished filming yet. So I apologize if I seem a little busy, because I am.

Daniel, I agree with the degree of thoroughness that you're demanding but you're not going to get those tests from me, sorry. I'm simply not willing to switch out my GG again after putting in the Beattie which was, I must say, a trying exercise. If Quyen's willing to ship me another vibration unit maybe I'd reconsider.

And unsubstantiated? Any fellow Letus owner would agree that the results I've posted are much sharper than that of the stock GG.

I do understand the strength of your curiousity but I'm sorry that I'm not able to satisfy it.

I will post res charts with the Beattie screen and more tests soon, after this nightmare of a project wraps up.

Ben, I did not meant to say that your claims were unsubstantiated. Actually, the Beattie ground glass appears to be substantially better in term of (1) clarity, (2) sharpness. However, final judgement must be postponed until comparative tests taking into consideration all relevant parameters which constitute overall optical quality have been carried out .
It would much easier for people such as Quyen, the "Father" of the Letus35 to carry out such tests. I own a Letus35A Flip and I'm wondering whether Quyen has improved the GG in this version.

Daniel, being that you already have a letus flip, and you have a detailed methodology worked out....why not spend the $92, grab a beattie, and post em up? My thinking is that a random holographic diffussion surface combined with a light directing fresnel, and Dan D's exhaustive tests, would indicate that Ben's results are indeed valid.

From what I've seen of letus footage, I would theorize that the squirmy grain I pointed out is DV compression's response to low frequency vibrating GG's...regardless of surface.

Ben, those EIA1956 with and without your adapter would be easy though.....Steve Dinkins? MPIC test? Now if I could just find Jim with that beattie he's selling.....

From what I've seen of letus footage, I would theorize that the squirmy grain I pointed out is DV compression's response to low frequency vibrating GG's...regardless of surface.≈.

Dennis, this sound interesting and potentially important, could you elaborate on this point (compression response) ? Thanks.

Another issue, which needs to be tested, and is potentially much more complicated, is evaluating the diffusion/spread pattern of colours through the focusing screen. And I'm not referring to "aberrations" or "artefacts" but to "the spatial interpretation of the color spectrum/colour space". As most of us have noticed, the overall colorimetry of a picture shot on a focusing screen afffected. Additionally, any filmmaker will develop a subjective experience of the "distinctive colouring" of the picture generated but any 35mm adapter. E.g., using the Letus35A Flip on a DVX100A with original Canon optics and shooting progressive, I get a much more saturated, more 16mm-like colouring. It's not a problem or a deficiency, just a characteristic of my adapter.

Well said, Daniel.

Don't forget that the G35 is built to be much more durable than the Letus, as well as the fact that the G35 is apparently static...but then again, is it worth the extra $$$?

Actually, I just read in their FAQ that they will no longer be making the g35 static. Something to do with the requirements of HD cameras.

Suddenly, I'm much less excited about the G35

RE: the question for Dennis (noise issue being a by product of DV compression + low level vibrations)

Here is some footage from a Letus Flip. I've seen the same issue in my HDV footage. Here is a clip that is compressed to DV AVI but it looks the same as it does in HDV (if anyone wants me to do something with the HDV in Premiere/Cineform, just send me instructions and I'll upload it).

Anyone want to download it and take a look? (about 190mb)

www.danielrudd.com/media/cleanedletus.avi

here's a shorter clip in a different setting (smaller download but very short content). Also DV AVI:

you can see the problem particularly in the areas where light meets dark and the cam. is in motion
www.stock20.com/media/letus/tony_in_chair.avi

Ben,
I just finished my own set of rod/rails and noticed that it still requires a delicate touch to get the rack focus without shaking - much easier than without the rod/rails, but still careful movements. Did you notice this with the Cavision rails?

Negative, Leo. I tighten the support while it's pushing upward so it puts tension on the adapter's threads, which solidifies the whole setup. Also, the Century Optics adapter is a much tighter fit so I've found that I can use many of my smaller primes without the rod system at all.

Try wrapping the adapter and the support together with a piece of wire.

I have to tighten everything and put some corkboard under the camera base as well to really tighten it up. I will try again. Thanks

Daniel A., I missed your question there. My question (and I don't have the answer) is related to how DV compression handles noise in bokeh areas. It's a fine point, but I notice it particularly on my 51" HDTV. I've spent a great deal of time tuning bokeh...so I find myself quite distracted by grain patterns. The pattern that I see from Ben's and MPIC stuff is what I would describe as "angry bees"...in other words pretty active.

In the both your clips, there's a lot of what looks like stationary grain and dust. Is this a static adapter?



Leo, your rig should be rock solid on rails if it's mounted properly. Assuming the letus is supported properly, try 1 inch velcro strap around the whole thing. It's just easier to apply and remove.

Yeah, I already have the velcro around the Letus35 - it actually looks like the Cavision in design. I do notice that my camera is not perfectly mounted to the base, so that is why the cork board is next to give it something to bite into.

Yeah, I already have the velcro around the Letus35 - it actually looks like the Cavision in design. I do notice that my camera is not perfectly mounted to the base, so that is why the cork board is next to give it something to bite into.

A mouse pad rubber will give you a better grip than cork. :)

I've done a few things since then and it is much better. I was also experiencing the vibration from the Letus35A against the aluminum hold it up, so I put some soft foam there. My tripod isn't great either so I am experience so all over movement from it. I think I need to invest in a good one to eliminate all of these problems, but the rail system seems to work fine for now.

In the both your clips, there's a lot of what looks like stationary grain and dust. Is this a static adapter?



No it is a letus 35 flip. Not modified.

When the motor is off you can see a significant difference, but I agree.
It looks like you can see the gg grain. The bigger dust spots are just by products of the last time I took it apart and I haven't cleaned them yet.

I've tried all of Quyen's tricks (moving the support sticks out, cleaning the gg), and I'm still waiting to hear back from him.

Any thoughts?

Hard to say without some uncompressed footage in good light. Given what you've spent though, I'd be dealing with Quen directly on this one. My guess is that something's not right there.....

Daniel.

A wild and woolly suggestion so ignore at will.

Try adding some resistive mass around outside of the Letus bodywork. This could as simple as some discarded wheel balance weights from your local tyrefitter or service station and strapped firmly around the Letus body with some stout elastic bands or inner tube or gaffer tape.

The failure of the gg to de-resolve grain may be an opposite motion of the case if it is not firmly mounted.

As I say - a woolly thought to be ignored.

Daniel.


The failure of the gg to de-resolve grain may be an opposite motion of the case if it is not firmly mounted.

As I say - a woolly thought to be ignored.

hmmm... When I tighten down the adapter, I don't use very much force at all. It is only lightly screwed in - mostly because that aligns the frame properly.

Does your theory suggest I should tighten it all the way?

Hey guys--
didn't want to start a new thread, so I figured I'd shove this in here. I recently completed a film shot completely with the Letus modified--The diner scene was shot with the original Letus GG, everything else was basically shot with the Beattie installed. The only shot that isn't using the Letus is the very last shot at the end.

I know it's not a large frame size, but it's 10 minutes long, so I wanted to make it playable.

http://media.frozenphoenixproductions.com/brokenminds.mov

Let me know what you think.

Hey guys--
didn't want to start a new thread, so I figured I'd shove this in here. I recently completed a film shot completely with the Letus modified--The diner scene was shot with the original Letus GG, everything else was basically shot with the Beattie installed. The only shot that isn't using the Letus is the very last shot at the end.

I know it's not a large frame size, but it's 10 minutes long, so I wanted to make it playable.

http://media.frozenphoenixproductions.com/brokenminds.mov

Let me know what you think.

You're a prodigy! What did you use to compose the music?

nice stuff ben.. good to see something other than test shots on these. really liked it

Very impressive Ben. That's a crap load of work there. You have a strong collection of shooting/editing/storytelling skills. Just curious, why did you make this film?

You're a prodigy! What did you use to compose the music?
Thanks Steev! It means a lot coming from you. I'm a huge fan of Cubase SX, and I used a bunch of VSTs like Edirol Orchestral with it.

Just curious, why did you make this film?
It was a class project. We wrote the script for about two weeks, then filmed it in two weeks, and edited it in one. I want to say that I wish I had more time to work on it, but I think we all say that no matter how much time we actually spend on it anyway :). I actually wanted to make it longer, but I'm submitting it to a festival that limits the length to under 10 minutes excluding credits.

Does anyone have any suggestions for color correction? I'm absolutely horrible at it, I don't own Magic Bullet and all I can think of is to bump up the contrast a little. White balancing that mix of indoor and outdoor light was a disaster :(. I can tell you right now that I'm kicking myself in the neck for not bringing blue neutral gels to balance out that warm light in the diner. Phooey. In fact I would've liked to make it a little green to suggest it was the light coming from the florescents behind the counter. But whatever, I definately think this helped me understand the workflow a lot better.

Thanks for the comments :)

Amazing work Ben, as always. I inspire to reach your level :)

Color correction is very subjective, some like more blues and greens, other did more reds and yellows.

Check out the Magic Bullet site and look at all the themed color examples they have listed, and pick which theme YOU think fits best with your film.

Also, please make a new thread with this posting ! I know many people will really enjoy it. It's a shame to hide it under this 7 pages deep.

If you don't, I will ! ;)

Keep doing what you're doing.

One point of critique, the sceen where the guy and girl are arguing in the hallway, I really wanted to see shoulder - up close - ups. Rather then having both on scene at the sametime and all we can see is the sides of the actors.

Oh, and I noticed another thing, are you a tiny bit camera shy !? ;)

I really wanted to see shoulder - up close - ups. Rather then having both on scene at the sametime and all we can see is the sides of the actors.
My sentiments exactly! I wanted them so badly that I made them go back and redo the scene. But their heads were tilted at completely different angles and the footage just didn't match up at all, so I was forced to not use it. The only part I could use was the last shot where she says "I'm working." But trust me, if I could get that footage in I would in a heartbeat.

are you a tiny bit camera shy !? ;)
To be honest, I love being in front of the camera...but I can never trust who's behind it, and I'm so nit-picky about my framing and such! I am forced to put the camera on a tripod if I'm ever in front of it.

I had a friend's copy of Magic Bullet, but I'm kicking myself because I had to return it a while back and I've reformatted my computer since then. Gah!

I really appreciate your comments Mark, and everyone. I suppose I will make a new thread.

nice work ben. I echo the previous compliments, and want to specifically point out your great work in the opening credits.

And from an audio production standpoint your soundtrack was very good.

Thanks for sharing.

Amazing...Amazing ....Amazing work.

Nice work Ben. I am impressed.

As for color correction, why don't you try tungsten|SOLID CinemantiQ? :)

It does all you want from magic bullet and more (fast too, without need for hardware acceleration).

Alain, I forgot! I will try it out immediately! Thanks for the reminder! (hits forehead in frustration)

Edit: Tried out the presets, tweaked them a little and found a great look. Thanks Alain! Once you get the idea of how CinemantiQ flows (which takes about 30 seconds) it's a quick click or two to a great look. Ah, the wonderful look of diffusion :)

Saweet.

Alain, I forgot! I will try it out immediately! Thanks for the reminder! (hits forehead in frustration)

Edit: Tried out the presets, tweaked them a little and found a great look. Thanks Alain! Once you get the idea of how CinemantiQ flows (which takes about 30 seconds) it's a quick click or two to a great look. Ah, the wonderful look of diffusion :)

Saweet.

Haha we are chasing each other. I just posted on the other thread.

Well I am glad you liked it. Let me know if you need some advice, perhaps on 3-point color correction (things like getting more contrast without blowing out your highlights), etc.

I have been doing upgrades in a letus 35.

1. Painted the tube black
2. Placed a nikon bayonet
3. Removed the GG to be cleaned

Unfortunately, when the unit was put back together a couple of problems
occured.

1. The GG does not vibrate enough to get rig of the grain.
2. Aparently there seems to be an unexplained increase in hot spot

I noticed that the glue that holds the syringe black rubber snapped.
We did glue it back but did not solve the vibrating problem.

We have been eager to solve this problems. This adapter costed my friend
Daniel quite a bit as we live in Brazil and our currency is devaluated.

Thanks for help in advance.

Alexandre

Alexandre, try doing this to each of the stoppers:

http://www.frozenphoenixproductions.com/misc/letus/beattie/pic3.JPG

This will improve GG movement and most likely solve your grain problem.

I don't know how that hotspot would happen, my only suggestion is to make sure the PCXL is at the correct distance.

Ben,

I see a drop of silicone. What is the distance from the PCXL to the rear
rim. Thanks

I wish I knew. It's mostly trial and error. Try halfway.

Great job on the Letus mods, it's great to see the flexibility of the device, and the possibilities for experimentation.

As for the film, it looks good too, an ambitious project. The only thing I would suggest before you do a festival submission is to redo/loop the Jake/Liz dialog immediately outside of the school, as it really sticks out compared to the excellent audio/music throughout the short.

This adapter is now for sale for $549 here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=66571