The i-glasses look great when watching a DVD with the default settings. They have 800x600 resolution. When I hook them up to the Sanyo the live image looks dull and muddy, with very little color. Pretty unusable. The cameras LCD looks much better. Also I get no live sound for some reason, but I can hear the camera talk.

Tom, so on your 50 incher did the picture look better then what you would get from a good SD camcorder? Or a SD TV broadcast?

Let me reserve opinion until I see the other clips. I downloaded them. I'll view them when I get home, still at work...

Request for Joseph or anyone else testing an HD1.
I persist with indie hopes for this HD1, I can go with
lights and a tripod, and I am wondering if the combo of
higher resolution than DV with progressive scan is going to make
greenscreen compositing work out better than in DV.

Could someone please shoot and post a short (~ 5 sec)
greenscreen test. This could be a person in front of a
green sheet in overcast light to give even brightness on
the background. Or a toy doll or soft toy in
front of a piece of coloured card or paper (or a sheet).
Please setup with distance between the object/person
and the background.

www.gamersden.com/hd1test/lowlamp.JPG
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/lowlampNR.JPGThe links are down -- don't work!

Joseph, considering that your last clips (low light) are - for me - better than the first set and also because the child and baby clips are far better, I suppose you need to fix the aperture, the shutter speed, or ISO setting to have a good result (after trying to find the critical parameter or best combinations). But because you did not seem to try it (?), I have just a question about the manual video exposure : for me it is not obvious - reading the manual- that you are allowed to choose your aperture or your shutter speed for VIDEO mode. Is this only allowed for still photo mode ?

PS : looking at the baby and kid rapid movements (step by step), I suppose the shutter speed is low. The other difference is that main subjects, (humans with low contrast) are closeups and on the center of the field.

PS2: I just watched the japonese clip. The duck is quite incredible, and we have a lot of light ! On first plans, far background is not as good, at the opposite of the baby's clip. The baby's clip shows smooth (blurred) fast movements and sharp far background : for me the shutter speed is slow but the aperture is 11 or more. May be the auto expo (used with your clips ?) leave the aperture around 3,5 and only adjust the shutter speed (the doc says it can go down to 1/10000 !). Lenses at max aperture are not at their best, and may be compression is difficult in a quite stroboscopic succession of pictures ?

We have to thanks you for all Joseph, it's a pleasure to have all this stuff to examine.

Dennis, the baby and child files have exactly the same tags than Joseph and japan clips : "SANYO DIGITAL CAMERA HD1" MPEG-4 ODSM,MPEG-4 ODSM, etc...

To conclude, for me, this camcorder is able to deliver the best, but not in every situation, and you have to find the optimal range for each parameter.

Luc-Henri

Downloaded several MP4 clips and they can be edited in FCP. Except performance is very slow and the audio remains embedded in the video clip.

Steve, what computer/speed are you running it on? Whats your impression of the clips, are we looking at the next HD10?



I REALLY REALLY can't wait to snowboard down a mountain with the camera mounted to my snowboard... or clutched tightly in my hand.

Dennis, when you take it snowboarding, could you post a link here?

I remember that watchimpress sight from before, I think it is a good one to bookmark for when the Sanyo's competitors start getting reviewed in a month or so.

Attention Indies

Here's some of Josephs footage edited together, down rezzed to SD then have some post coloring applied.

www.starcentral.ca/dvinfo/hd1post1.mov
right click and save target as - file is 33MB

I used After Effects to down rez but don't know if there isn't a better workflow for this. I recompressed it as MOV.

Let me know what you guys think ; )

Leuname, Fixed lowlamp clips.

John, Sorry, I don't have a green screen. I will try a solid background if I have a chance.

Luc-Henri , I can adjust both the f stop and the shuter speed in M mode in video and use the neutral density filter. I am not that good with manual controls. You are right that the aperture stays low and the shutter speed is adjusted in auto.

Dennis, thanks for putting that together. For SD, the detail looks good. And the music brings it to life ;)

Here is a picture and a very short clip with the lens cap on to test no light color of the camera:

www.gamersden.com/hd1test/cap.JPG
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/cap.MP4


And a high contrast still picture of a cat that I think came out quite well:

www.gamersden.com/hd1test/cat.JPG

In outdoor settings on automatic I believe the f stop is typicaly 4.5 - 5.6 and the shutter speed is in the 300s-400s.

Hey, I just found out, in that Japanese article they mention something about cleaning up the image by changing modes or something. It is hard to tell, because google is not translating the words of exactly what they are changing. It is in the section after the google page translation cuts out, I had to cut and past to their text translator on their translation page instead. They talk about something else by changing modes to.

I must say the sample image from the Japanese site looks better, more detail in the shadows, and more latitude, but that could have been the time of day. I have not finished loading, but the wind speed measuring thing has blocking, even though it is the only thing moving in frame, no real loss, but no real example. On the water there is a lot of blocking, but the water curves themselves appear to keep there shape well, but when you look at the railings they are very jagged, and when you look at the trees you see branches that have finger stripes interleaved with the sky. I must say still a great consumer camera.

I had a wonderful thought for a joke when I looked at the clips (thanks for the new ones). A serious low budget mini action film, but one that tries to be StarWars, lots of little models getting pyroteched and filmed from underneath with this camera (Star Trek style). Just to see all the attracting ;) Half an hour and $500 dollar budget.

-----------
(Star Wars .5, Darth Vader's Conception" ;) )

Joseph, it seems easy to select a manual exposure (user doc p 74) : try a half-auto mode like S or A.

With S mode you choose the shutter speed and the camera will adjust the aperture to the light.
With A mode you choose the aperture and the camera will adjust the the shutter speed to the light.

To get a result similar to the two initials clips (baby and child), outside with sun:

1 - Put the ISO sensitivity (p 83) to the smallest (ISO 50)
2 - select A mode exposure
put the ND filter on and try to set the aperture to the smallest (8).
If don't you have sun, set the aperture to 5.6, or set off the ND filter or both.
Try to keep one of you nice cats into the field (is she Donut ?) !

You can also, with the S mode set the speed to 1/60 to 1/125 and combinate with low ISO and ND on or off to have a good exposure.

Luc-Henri

Thanks Luc-Henri, I will try some manual mode test ASAP.

She is Precious. The Gray one is Donut.

I am confused how to properly determine if the manual setting are correct. When I am in M mode, I can adjust the F stop, the shutter speed, and the ND filter. The problem is I have no feedback on the LCD display as to how the image is going to be exposed. It looks the same as if it is using auto settings during and after adjustments. Only when I press the record button does the LCD show the image with the manual settings applied.

Here are some sample clips taken outside on an overcast day.

They all use ISO 50, F6.8, 1/30 Sec shutter, and the ND filter.

www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT1.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT2.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT3.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT4.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT5.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT6.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT7.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT8.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/MT9.MP4

There is a wierd darker blur area in the center of the brown tree on clip 5.

Hello Joseph !

For me this new clips are FAR BETTER in term of details, colors and movement. I like the natural blur comming from low shutter speed (trees in wind N° 6 for instance). Of course you may have some pb to find the right exposure because of your M setting (I like the resolution and movement of the train clip, but was the country so white ?). Why don't you use the A (set the aperture to 5,6) or S setting (set the speed to 1/30 or 1/60) ? This give the camera a chance to find by itself the correct remaining parameter. Generaly ou don't need to play on both, exept if you want to change the light balance.
The point is that this little cam allow a lot of specific settings, and lets us imagine so many uses and beautiful effects. Incredible for the size and the price!
I am going to my Parisian bed now, and - once more- thank you Joseph, for your availability, I am sure now to buy this toy before this summer.


Luc - Henri

Just a mistake "Why don't you use the A (set the aperture to 5,6)" to correct to "Why don't you use the A (set the aperture to 6,8 or more if you have good light)" considering your tests, it could be a crucial parameter.

Luc-Henri

Thanks again for all these test clips!

If I could make a request...

Can you post a clip shot in black and white mode? I'm curious to see if the compression will be a little lighter.

Does anybody have any thoughts on buying this camera vs. the C6 if I am not going to use it to watch on an HDTV. Are the "other" (other than HD) features much more improved that it takes a significantly different picture and video than its predecessor? I know the zoom is improved.

I was also wondering, Joseph, if there is a lag in the video if you take a still during filming. I have read that this is much improved on one review somewhere that in certain settings there is no lag in video. Is this true?

Thanks for everyone's opinion in advance, I am really struggling with this decision.

Ginger, according to the manual you can take a picture during the video in some modes, and it will not effect the video. I tried this with the HQ HD setting and the video did freeze during playback for a couple seconds during the picture time, so it is a useless feature for me.

Thanks Joseph, but have you tried to take a still while NOT recording in HD? If so, is there lag time? Would you say that there is a big difference in your recordings on HD vs standard in overall picture quality?

I can't say I have ever tried any mode beside HQ HD. My goal is high quality. If I have a chance I will try some of the other modes today.

Thanks - that would be really helpful.

Joseph, the MT series of videos you posted look amazing. I want to try hooking up to my 42" plasma screen but the videos are still playing choppy for me.

Anyone have advise for smoother playback? My notebook here is 2.2GHz with 512Mb ram... I have no idea why this doesn't play so good. I'm using Quicktime to play back.

Anyone have advise for smoother playback? My notebook here is 2.2GHz with 512Mb ram... I have no idea why this doesn't play so good. I'm using Quicktime to play back.

Try VLC. It seems to be a lot smoother.

Ginger, I tried a still shot in while recording video in 640x480 mode at 30 and 60 FPS and still see a pause in the video when played back. And yes I think HD mode looks way beter then SD mode. I will post some sample clips in a bit.

Here are some sample clips taken outside on an pretty sunny day.

They all use ISO 50, F6.8, Auto shutter, Sunny WB, and the ND filter.

They don't look as good as the AT batch I did last time IMO. It might be due to the outdoor lighting, as it was not ideal overcast like the other day.

www.gamersden.com/hd1test/AT1.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/AT2.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/AT3.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/AT4.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/AT5.MP4

Here is the same general #2 clip, but in Black and White filter mode.

www.gamersden.com/hd1test/AT2BW.MP4

Some SD (640x480) samples at 30 and 60 FPS. The freeze in the middle is due to a still shot taken during the video. It is hard to see as there is not much movement.

www.gamersden.com/hd1test/ATSD30.MP4
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/ATSD60.MP4

Wow!!!!! there really is a huge difference. I was always under the impression that HD makes no difference if it is not played back on a HD format monitor. That does not seem to be the case here. What am I missing?

Now that you have had a few days to play with your new camera, what are your impressions? Do you consider it a great camera? What are its pro's and con's as far as you can tell?

Your feedback has been amazing on this thread- thank you so much for all of your input!!!!!!!! It's really been helpful.

The HD mode has three times the resolution as the SD mode. If you viewing it on a typical computer, you will see three times the detail, because the computer has a high resolution display. If you are watching it on a SD TV, you might not see a difference, because the TV has a lower resolution. Just depends on the output device you are viewing the video on.
It is a great camera for portability. It takes very good still pictures. The flash works well. It has great manual controls. Great remote control functionality. Takes pretty good HD video under controlled conditions.
The auto focus is a bit slow. In auto mode it does not shoot the best video. It is not very good at all for video in low light. The battery does not last very long. The LCD is very hard to see in any sunlight. Remote does not respond well in sunlight. It is hard to hold still freehand. The image stabilizer does not help much.

Wow!!!!! there really is a huge difference. I was always under the impression that HD makes no difference if it is not played back on a HD format monitor. That does not seem to be the case here. What am I missing?

Because the picture is 1280*720p downsized (probably to a 720*480 frame). The details and edges might look more well defined. But the other big factor is that you have 9Mb/s+ codec collecting much more detail than the little 3Mb/s VGA codec.

One thing I did find interesting. I examined the SD clips of the water from the Japanese site, and the 3Mb/s frame looked better than the 6Mb/s 60fps frame. The water seems bazaar, but maybe it is a reflection. But when I examined the top of the group of high trees in the background I found the opposite, the 6Mb/s frame seemed to have more definition. Of course, the 9Mb/s 720p version looked slightly better again.

I would be interested in how DVD down conversion would go, it might turn out very good, in that case, this would be an interesting camera for company training videos (as well as family flicks).

Anyone have advise for smoother playback? My notebook here is 2.2GHz with 512Mb ram... I have no idea why this doesn't play so good. I'm using Quicktime to play back.

Yes, VLC as Robert said. If you still have trouble then slow down the playback to 50% and less. You might be able to use this trick on your existing Quicklime as well.

I wonder if the clear correspondence between increased resolution and increased bandwidth is an indication that this is the limit of what even a consumer camera company will try (VGA 30fps-3Mb/s, 60fps-6Mb/s, 720p-9Mb/s)?

Joseph, this clips are comparable to plans of the japonese review for far subjects (IMO acceptable and better than your first set) and your closeup plans are very good ?. Obviously, he camera is not at its best for strong ligths, high contrasts and far subjects. Your number 5 is not good at all (may be a pb with focus or stabilizer ?).
Because the aperture is the same than previous overcast day, (IMO very good), may be is there also a pb with fast shutter speeds. In these case (sunny day),you can try to set the minimum aperture (8) to oblige the cam to set the shutter speed to a lower level.
If this does not work, you can buy an external ND filter (lense) to add more light reduction.
PS: I don't know if the aperture is truly comparable to 35mm photo cameras, but with 100 ISO films (the real ISO selected when you choose 50 in the video mode, cf user manual), if you choose a 6.8 aperture you get a shutter speed faster than 1/1000 on a sunny day (on this kind of cam, you choose 11 or 16 aperture).

Luc-Henri

Joseph,

I was reading about shutter speed in the manual and couldn't get specifics on what the different shutter speed options are. It just seemed to give minimum and maximum. Is it possible to do 1/60?

Also, wondering if you turn off the HD1 and return a week later will it still be set like you had it? Or does powering it off mean manual settings are all forgotten?

Thanks for all your hard work.

Graham

Wayne,
what do you think of the fact that this cam is better at low shutter speeds ? Can this help the mp4 encoder ? Could we suppose that because fast movement is naturaly (physicaly) blurred the encoder don't detect it as something to encode ?

Luc-Henri

I don't really know, maybe the blur destroys information and replaces it with macro blocks (seen a bit of that in the clips, but haven't seen the latest clips). But one thing I have noticed, is that the the waves, bubbles, etc contain a lot of curved features/edges that is replicated rather than dropped in resolution. Is there some sort of function for curved data in Mpeg4, that would help with curved data, as you don't really know what you are looking at anyway?

The lower shutter speed definitely picks up more light, reducing noise, I don't know how it affects latitude though. On the HC1, one guy decreased shutter speed to 1/500-1/1000 a second to clean up motion (still seems to be macro blocking in the waves) he also tried different modes that helped I think. That Japanese article mentioned some about mode changing, what was that about?


Thanks

Wayne.

Luc-Henri, With the settings I posted I was getting shutter speeds of 100-150 in the sun. 1/12 to 1/22 in the shade. The ND filter was on. I still don't know what the thread size is on the camera. They hide it well. #5 is 10X zoomed. I guess we need one more test with a f3.5 and low shutter speeds on an overcast day to see if the shutter speed or the f stop is more important.

Graham, the manual shutter speeds are: 4S, 2S, 1S, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/100, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000, 1/1500, and 1/2000. I think they mean if there is no primary battery power, in about a week your settings will be lost, because the internal battery will run out. Not using the camera for a week is a test I WON'T try ;)

Thanks Joseph. I think that speeds like 1/100 or 1/150 are not very high speeds and may be it's why your last outside clips are better (combined with the increased depth field of f 6.8). But may be the more natural blur (the blur we use to see in movies) induced by 1/30 or 1/60 speed can also mask some mp4 artifacts ? Of course it is difficult to get this values on an sunny day (with a min of f8), and not satisfactory when we have a fast moving subject to shoot.
What do you mean by "I still don't know what the thread size is on the camera" ? (My English is not perfect :<)

Luc-Henri

Luc-Henri, the thread size in mm to attach a filter or lens. This information is not documented anywhere.

Here is a link where you can see somebody putting the wide angle lenses on the front of cam (at the 3/4 of the clip). It seems like the additional lense is pushed more than screewed and that its frame surrounds the original lenses.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/PdafrancePodcastVideo?m=56

Luc-Henri

Okay so who wants to try the HD1 with a DYI 35mm adapter of some sort?

That's something I'd really like to see... the extra softening by the ground glass should ease the compression even more producing perhaps less artifacts! After down rezzing to SD or DVD the results might very well be quite amazing... we need to test this.

Joseph - I love your last set of tests, these images are comparable to the ones on the Japanese site I posted earlier.

(Now if I can just get my bloody directshow in AVIsynth working properly to play these MP4 files in Windows Media player or Virtual dub, I can try various tests and methods burning to DVD)

Look form the HD adaptor threads in alternative imaging first, that should ease the learning curve.

Could I suggest? Posting some comment of what is found in each clip, and analysis, for future clips. Loading all the clips takes a long time and maxes out accounts (plus they keep stopping with errors).

Thanks

Wayne.

OK, so maybe there are no threads after all. I guess that is a good way for Sanyo to make sure you buy their lens..

Here are a couple of left to right pan clips at the metro station:

S 1/30 manual mode. I believe ND was on and A = f8:
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/panS30.MP4

A f6.8 manual mode. I believe ND was on and S = ?:
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/panA68.MP4

BTW you can not go higher then f6.8 in manual modes. In the beginning when then picture is pretty still the quality looks pretty much the same in both clips. The picture is much more blurred in 1/30 during movment. So, I think good quality and be achieved with either setting depending on what you need.

What's the soft case like Joseph? Does it protect the cam?

I have not used the case, but it it pretty firm (but not hard) and should provide good protection, unless you stand on it ;)

Yeah maybe the next test can be a "drop" test to see how well the case performs! LOL

I know when Sanyo switched cases from the C4 to the C6 I was disappointed. The C4 had a hard case you could put the whole camera in. The C6 case looks more like a pistol holster.

Joseph, this last clips are like school cases : the S (1/30) one shows what would be a "filage" effect, useful when you are tracking a subject moving in the same way than your panaramic does (the subject is sharp but not the background): thanks to your cam to allow that ! The second one A 6.8 is the stroboscopic effet related to shutter speed too high to give a feeling of movement.
If you want a good result for this panoramic : do it slower ! Or record the same clip a few times to test the good shutter speed (in this case, between 1/60 and 1/150 for me).
I like very much the color balance of this clips; IMO they look like Richard Estes paintings.
I think you will have a lot of pleasure whith this cam !

Luc-Henri

The stroboscopic effet could be an artifact of my home notebook. Its a Powerbook 1.5 Ghz, maybe a little bit short for this kind of HD even with VLC. I will try tomorow with my office Powermac G5 2X2Ghz.

Luc-Henri