Hey guys, I just recently ordered a few things from here and there and got myself a pretty decent LCD field monitor to mount on top of my GL2. I think this is definately a viable alternative because the monitor has everything you need and (almost) nothing you don't, which brings down the price a lot. This "kit" includes a very, very cheap power source (especially if you own a lot of batteries for your camera) and a cheap but strong and simple way to mount it to your camera (via shoemount).

parts list:
------
*7" TOUCH SCREEN LCD TFT VGA MONITOR (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8027167782)(ebay, $220 including shipping)

*12V 1.8A Rechargable battery (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5849474548) (ebay, $20) OPTIONAL: This is a really cheap and easy way to get power to your monitor but I don't know how long 1800mAh will last you. But hey, it's cheap, I bought two :)

*Windtech CM-21 Shoemount Mic Clip (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=332813&is=REG&addedTroughType=search) (B&H, $6)

*Extra battery charger for your type of camera battery ($20, ebay)

*Velcro from your local hobby/hardware store ($5 - $10)

*S-video cable

*Standard DC plug (I ripped mine off of something else, but if you don't need the car plug adapter that comes with the LCD screen you can take it off of that)

*Battery
--

First I unscrewed the hinge off of the shoemount mic clip I got from B&H, and did the same to the mount that came with the TV (I removed the base). Keep the hardware. Using a few 1/4" nuts from Home Depot I attached the shoemount to the TV mount:

http://www.frozenphoenixproductions.com/misc/lcdscreen/hingecloseup.JPG

Now I can mount the TV to my camera's shoemount.

What about power?
There are three options. One, you can buy the $20 1.8Ah battery pack off ebay (mentioned above in the parts list) It's quick, easy and looks clean, but it might not last you long. You can just buy more then :) The second option is wiring a battery pack charger to simply take the two prongs of the battery you insert out to a DC plug. Oddly enough, even though the screen is rated for 12V it will run off of as little as the 7.2v provided by a camera battery. I took my stock JVC battery charger (since I have about 5 JVC batteries), removed the entire charging circuit board and desoldered the battery prong assembly from the charging board. Then I soldered a DC plug to the metal prongs that touch the battery. Voila! Instant camera battery power. I heard there was a similar thing you could buy, but it was $100! Forget that...long live DIY.

The third option is buying those huge 12v battery packs found in hobby stores with a 'smart charger'. Just to try it out, I ordered one with a charger and it came out to $100. I'm still waiting for it to arrive, but I have a feeling it'll be one of my best options for power. I'll probably sell it if I find out I don't need it--between my two 1.8Ah packs and my JVC batteries, I think I'm set.

Mounted everything together with Velcro, and put areas for the remote that comes with the TV to velcro on, and a battery pack. The camera mount allows the TV to be easily rotated upside-down for use with a 35mm adapter.

Pictures:
http://www.frozenphoenixproductions.com/misc/lcdscreen

Qualms and issues I have with my setup:
----
*The viewing angle on this thing could be better. It's not that bad (look at the overheadfront.JPG image), but enough to get me somewhat annoyed. If I have two people handling the camera it's just enough viewing angle to have one person on each side looking at the TV and able to see a good picture.

*There is no 4:3. It's either shoot it in 16:9 or be looking at a stretched-out image. However I think this LCD screen (http://cgi.ebay.com/SP-719-7-XGA-TFT-LCD-VGA-TOUCH-SCREEN-PC-CAR-MONITOR_W0QQitemZ5850848128QQcategoryZ67771QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) says "16:9 or 4:3 Switchable" so it might be a viable alternative. It only has RCA inputs though; no S-video. I'm fine with it because I always shoot native 16:9 with my GL2 anyway.

*It's not powerfully bright. I can see the image fine in all conditions, especially with a hood covering it from the sun, but I find myself trying to scratch the "increase the brightness" itch when I know I can't, because increasing the brightness just washes out the image.

Things I like about it:
---
*It's cheap. $260 got me a very decent 800x640 or whatever it is resolution that gives me a pretty darn sharp image and excellent battery power options, something I thought was going to be expensive.

*It's cheap.

*It works for focusing. Probably not as well as a $900 job, but I can definately, without a doubt, tell exactly what's in focus and what's not. You get what you pay for, and this was a darn good buy.

K that's all folks. Thanks.

- Ben

Looks good Ben, have you owned any other monitors with which to compare it? I have an Ikan v7000 which I don't care for.

That's my only qualm--I've never used an actual LCD field monitor before, so I can't comment on its quality in relation to another one. I think it's decent, but I'm sorry that I can't say with total confidence that you'll agree with me.

ya good work ben, I wonder, if u have it plugged into a 7.2V battery and have the screen on standby/off - would the drain be less? or do u need to build a switch for the battery.....


Also looking at your link

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8027167782

it says it can do 4:3 - maybe there is a switch?

I just emailed the seller asking if there's some way to enable 4:3 viewing. Hopefully I'll get a response.

I'll probably build a switch for the JVC battery pack, but for now the power switch on the actual TV will do. I don't think the drain (if any) of a powered-off LCD screen is enough to affect the battery life, or to the point where it matters for me anyway. I'll look into it.

cool - i think this has been discussed before - but is there a reason u didn't go for the lilliput models?

lookin' on EBAY in AU - there are a few models - liliput (4:3) and one similar to yours just with different branding...

I would love to run off the DVX 7.2V battery so this is my main concern...

I just emailed the seller asking if there's some way to enable 4:3 viewing. Hopefully I'll get a response.

I'll probably build a switch for the JVC battery pack, but for now the power switch on the actual TV will do. I don't think the drain (if any) of a powered-off LCD screen is enough to affect the battery life, or to the point where it matters for me anyway. I'll look into it.
Danger Ben Winter! Danger! My Ikan is a virtual vampire on the battery if I leave it connected. Yours may be different but....

First, to Justin, I couldn't find a lilliput model with respectable resolution and s-video with better statistics than this "Super" model. I found one with the same stats, but it was $40 more expensive: no thanks. And they look oddly the same...

To Greg: thanks for letting me know! I really was purely speculating. Now that I know there's a real battery drain I'll be sure to add an on/off switch.

Ben, on the ebay ad, it said S-video input, but the one you got didnt have any?please clarify thanks... this would be a handy preview monitor on the desktop also i would think.

As well, the ebay ad says 1024x768 resolution, but you mentionned only 800x600.
if you got the specs sheet, just give use the pixel count.
usually it is 2400x600 for a 800x600 screen (because you need 3 pixel RGB to make a real pixel)
this one should indicate 3x1024 (3072).
since a already got a liliput (800x600), i want to know if this screen is better.
For the brightness, the ebay add says there is a touch screen on this model.
The touch screen layer absorb a lot of light and make the surface of the screen very reflective. If you do not use it and are not afraid dismantling the screen, you can remove it.

Giroud, perfect! That's the kind of stuff I want to hear--thanks. I'll go to town on it tonight and see if the touchscreen layer can't be removed.

The pixel count is exactly what it says on the site--I'm just giving the resolution it says in the menu.

Ken, it does have S-video, I was just saying that the alternative 7" that might be better doesn't have it. Neither does the lilliput, it would seem--but I've heard they leave the capability in there and just ship it with a different plug.

I'll get the pixel count out of the manual next chance I get.

Update: Took out the touchscreen, easy as pie--just a matter of unscrewing and unplugging. Contrast/brightness difference is impressive! Now I feel like I'm looking at a true LCD screen. Thanks for the tip Giroud!

Ben, the screen you bought looks A LOT like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8027942397&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

If it is the same, you have a 2400x480 pixel resolution.

I'm also looking to buy one of these, but i live in a pal country. 800x480 is quite ok for you bacause it's almost 1:1 with NTSC 720x480 res, so good for focusing. Can somebody tell me if this resolution is workable for pal too, or would a 800x600 be better in my case? (dv pal is 720x576)

thanks

Jelle, the menu gives you the ability to change to PAL resolution.

http://www.mp3playerstore.com/stuff_you_need/special/IN-700VG.htm

Same res, $189 US, minus the touch screen.

Nice find Dennis! It would be the perfect screen if it had S-video input.

Good job, Ben. Keep it up!


*12V 1.8A Rechargable battery (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5849474548) (ebay, $20) OPTIONAL: This is a really cheap and easy way to get power to your monitor but I don't know how long 1800mAh will last you. But hey, it's cheap, I bought two :)

1800mAh will last you about 2.5 hours if the monitor draws 8 watts. How many watts is the monitor rated at?


you can buy the $20 1.8Ah battery pack off ebay (mentioned above in the parts list) It's quick, easy and looks clean, but it might not last you long. You can just buy more then :)

The price per mAh is about the same for larger-capacity batteries, like the ones up in the 5400mAh range. So by buying 1800mAh ones, you have to carry more of them (bad), swap them (even worse), and spend more time operating with the battery at the low end of its capacity (the worst). So, $60 on a battery three times the capacity, is better than three $20 1800mAh batteries.

The third option is buying those huge 12v battery packs found in hobby stores with a 'smart charger'. Just to try it out, I ordered one with a charger and it came out to $100. I'm still waiting for it to arrive, but I have a feeling it'll be one of my best options for power.

The downside to the big battery pack is the weight. Did you look at the amp-hour rating of the battery? That will tell you how long it will operate the monitor.

I don't think the drain (if any) of a powered-off LCD screen is enough to affect the battery life, or to the point where it matters for me anyway.

Both my monitors did affect battery life when off.


Ben, the screen you bought looks A LOT like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8027942397&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

If it is the same, you have a 2400x480 pixel resolution.

Jelle, that's actually the "triple the pixel count" rating. So it's really 2400/3, which is 800. By 480.

Ben, an alternative is to just use an svideo to composite adapter...like this one: http://www.showmecables.com/productDetailsPopUp.asp?idproduct=2360

My cam has both, so I use the composite for my external display. Not ideal, but it works OK.

Actually Dennis I have one right here in my desk drawer. The quality blows chunks though.

Bill, the screen is in fact rated at 8 watts. With the JVC batteries I have, the $20 cheapos and the big fat one on the way I'm no longer worried about battery power, but for others looking into this, it's good to know. :)

I wish I could tell you the amp-hour rating of the battery but it isn't here yet and I lost the link. I'm sure its >5400mAh though.

the liliput i got (under 300$ as well) is 800x600, so probably better for PAL.
The only thing i dislike for mine is the poor connector (all in one tiny flat connector). I prefer simple BNC or cinch.
It connects too on a PC, so can be usefull for teleprompter uses.
For the batteries, i use some li-ion pack (huge ratio energy/volume/weigth)
they are cheap and can power my 7" LCD (noname brand) for at least 2 hours.
(the 4000mA version, the LCD takes about 1500mA/hours) .
You can purchase the pack+charger for very cheap (about 80$) at www.batteryspace.com
They got 6000mA packs too (4 hours).
the only drawback is to find a voltage stabilizer to reduce the 14.4 (sometime labelled 18V) to 12V.
The solution is to purchase a 10$ kit (poststamp sized print with a low drop regulator). I use them a lot.
the main component is a low drop voltage regulator like the LT 1085-12CT 12V 3A.

If you got 2 left hand or are too lazy you can use this
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=919, looks better and ready for use.

Ben, how would you characterize the difference in composite vs s-video on your 7" LCD? I've been looking for one of these for awhile in the 800x480 flavour, however I hadn't considered how noticeable the connect type would be on a 7" screen. Perhaps I should be considering s-video...

It's a stinker that portable dvd players in this size don't use the better screen. My screen isn't that great, but I sure like having the onboard lithium battery.

Just wondering! Would just about any 12v LCD Monitor work? Like the ones in vans and other suv's??? If so, you could go to just about any wrecking yard and pick one up and with a little engineering you could put one together for pretty cheep...

John, I'm guessing that would work, but I really don't think the resolution is very good on those things either. I mean, c'mon, that's stooping pretty low in the name of saving money...lol. I doubt the car uses s-video too. That'd be a pain to wire.

Saw your question about s-video vs. composite quality. The composite signal is much blurrier and less detailed, which is exactly what we don't want if we're trying to focus something.

Ben, XM2 owner here in PAL-land:

Q1: How/which socket are you getting the video to the monitor? On a 4:3 monitor I use the BNC out from the MA300 adaptor. I couldn't see the "lead" connections in your photos.

Q2: How do you achieve the 16:9? Is that just the setup in the XM2 menu and that just zaps to the 16:9 monitor?

Q3: How is all that weight on that single foot? Would scare the pants of me!

TIA

Grazie

Edit - double post . . .

Two things I want to mention:

I am concerned about that much weight on a hotshoe, so I am building a monitor support into my rod support system.

Batteries are often rated on a slow-draw test. They can not put out their full rating for a whole hour. The total quantity of energy available is the same as their rating for one hour, but if they are drained that fast the capacity goes down. For example, a 1 AmpHour (1000mAH) 12V battery (actually more like 13V) would put out 13W for less than an hour if drained that fast. It WILL put out 1 watt for 13 hours. An 8W monitor will run more than four time as long on a 4AH battery than a 1AH battery. Don't forget that Amps = Volts x Watts, so a 7.2V 5400mAH battery has less juice than a 12V 5400mAH model.

What this all means is that you will get better battery life and longevity if you get a bigger battery. I got a couple of 12V 7AH batteries cheaply so that is what I am going to use. They should each last all day with my <10W monitor. Unfortunately, they are a bit heavy, so a 5AH battery would probably be best unless you get a battery belt.

I am concerned about that much weight on a hotshoe, so I am building a monitor support into my rod support system.

Yes. I'd like to see the Rod support holding a battery. I have a DvRigPro which I clamp stuff all over it. My monitor is clamped to this. I have lighting battery at rear. Presently I have a "weighty" lead:acid 12 volt slung over one shoulder - it works.


Batteries are often rated on a slow-draw test. They can not put out their full rating for a whole hour.

This is where my lead:acid is so strong. It fades over an extremely long period. A lot to be said for these batteries. No memory, no burn out, long life and very cheap too. But it aint no light weight.

Grazie

How/which socket are you getting the video to the monitor? On a 4:3 monitor I use the BNC out from the MA300 adaptor. I couldn't see the "lead" connections in your photos.

I use the S-video out, if that's what you mean, on the back of the GL2.

How do you achieve the 16:9? Is that just the setup in the XM2 menu and that just zaps to the 16:9 monitor?

I shoot in native 16:9, and since the screen is 16:9 and automatically stretches the image, it's correctly proportioned.

Oh, by the way, I received an email back from the guys who sold me the screen:

Hello,

Thank you for your email. Have you tried adjusting the horizontal and vertical position of the picture? Please press menu, color, then the vol - or vol+ to enter the picture menu. There you will find the H and V position settings. Feel free to email us if you need further assistance. Thank you.

Regards,


LettuceTrade Support
support@lettucetrade.com


It seems to suggest that I would have to manually punch in the horizontal and vertical settings to squeeze it onto a 4:3 ratio--ridiculous. Not to mention that moving the 16:9 image around the screen does absolutely nothing to make it 4:3, as anyone with half a brain would assume anyway. I'm going to email them back.

How is all that weight on that single foot? Would scare the pants of me!

If you only knew...it's really not that much weight at all. Very light, especially with the 1800mAh battery. It just looks like a lot. Besides, I can always put the battery somewhere else, perhaps on the rod system. Don't forget that both the hotshoe and the upper portion of the GL2 are constructed entirely of metal.

They can not put out their full rating for a whole hour.
You forget that this monitor can handle voltages as low as 7.2, possibly lower. Who cares if the voltage drops? It has a lot of leeway. I'd rather have a light battery than a big heavy one just to satisfy my need for a more consistent voltage.

Thanks Ben.

I didn't know about the metal construction under the hat of the XM2 - thanks.

Concerning the " . as low as 7.2" what would it do to the battery? Loading a battery at that low output? I was under the impression that it isn't a good thing to load a depleted battery?

(Ben: Sorry, maybe you missed my question on the Letus . . But what is that dreamy ZOOM lens in your movie of your Letus support?)

Grazie

Graham, I'm not sure I understand about loading a depleted battery, I'm just saying that any 12v battery that loses voltage as it is used isn't a problem since the LCD screen seems to function on a voltage range from 7 to 12, which is a pretty big range. So voltage loss because of battery drain shouldn't be considered a problem.

Graham I'm sorry I forgot to answer your previous question. I'm deciding to keep it a secret :). Haha. Just kidding. I'm at school now, so I'll have to look it up for you when I get home.

I'm deciding to keep it a secret :). Haha.

OOoh you total tease you!

G

Alright, it's a Vivitar 75-205mm 1:3.8f macro zoom. You're welcome :)

thanks bill, I had a long day ;)

Not to nit pick, but the lens you're talking about is F3.8, aka, "1:3.8".
It's not 1.38, I'm sorry to say! :)
For a second there I thought A) how the hell did a zoom lens that fast slip under my nose, and B) I need to get one!

You did some tasty work with it. Keep it up!

Hi Ben - you almost certainly have an 800x RGBx480 native resolution screen. The maximum resolution referred to in the ad of 1024x768 is from a PC and would be scaled to fit your native res.

If you had a native 1024 x 768 screen it would be 4x3 aspect ratio as LCD pixels are square ;)

4x3 aspect ratio may be buried in the menu system or a button on the remote?

Suppose you've investigated all that...

Ben, any chance I can contact these Lettuce people to unearth a UK distrib? Or maybe they would ship?

Website link .. . ?

Grazie

You can email them at support (at) lettucetrade.com

Ben, what is the "name" on the top left edge of the screen? Can't make it out. Yours says "SUPER" - the eBay one doesn't?

G

The top left text says "TFT LCD Digital Wide Color Monitor/VGA."

Sorry this is a bit off topic but, Ben, in this picture of you GL2:
http://frozenphoenixproductions.com/misc/lcdscreen/frontview.JPG
what is the lens on the front? Is that how your shooting in native 16:9?

Matt, I'm not sure if you're referring to the SLR lens or the 35mm adapter in general--in either case, neither allows me to shoot natively in 16:9, that's simply a function of the GL2. If you're asking what lens I have on there, it's a Canon FD 55mm 1:1.2.