Hi,

Is it possible to edit XLH1 footage in Final Cut Pro 5 right now ?

thanks

*lord*
*smile*

YES Antoine. You can in fact edit footage from XL-H1 in Final Cut Pro 5. Please do a search and you will find all kinds of other topics addressing this.

60i - no problem (can be done inside FCP 5 easily)
30p - no problem (can be done inside FCP 5 easily)
24f - a little more complicated. You will have to capture the footage using programs like www.HDVxDV.com. Once you have done that, you will need to convert the raw .m2t file to AIC manually. Once you have done that, you can edit the footage in FCP 5. native support for 24f is coming soon.

- ShannonRawls.com

Hi Shannon,

Does it takes a long render time to convert in HDVxDV ?

thanks !

Nope, it's a real time capture in HDVxDV.
However HDVxDV does not do the conversion. Another program (slips my mind the name) does it. So, Yep, the conversion to AIC takes a long time, therefore it all evens out in the end.

- ShannonRawls.com

thanks Shannon !

Someone from Birns and Sawyer told me that Apple was coming with an update... to do both 24f and 30f... in the next couple of weeks... lets hope he's right...

he was right about the canon coming when it did so maybe he'll be two out of two...

*lord*
*smile*

YES Antoine. You can in fact edit footage from XL-H1 in Final Cut Pro 5. Please do a search and you will find all kinds of other topics addressing this.
- ShannonRawls.com

I did a search and found very little. Don´t know what I´m doing wrong but I sure would like to know if it´s possible to capture HDV 25F or 50i through firewire. (PAL land) :)

You can capture through FW (at least for 50i, haven't managed 25f yet). Shannon, if you rember the program to convert to AIC - please post! Would be most helpful! //All Best Jonas

I captured with HDVxDV and then converted with MPEG streampclip. But I don't think you need that if you do European version. Because how is it different than directly capturing via firewire within FCP.

The only question I have is very confusing for me.

I myself have 25F and 50i. But it would be the same with 30F and 60i.

Since in both mode, F or i, camera records in interlaced, when capturing via firewire or SDI to FCP I have to select the 50i in my capture settings. So, basicly, how is the end result different? I mean, does this mean, that when I playback 50i which was captured as 25F (but recorded 25F) I actuallly get progressive frame? Does it not mater how you capture it from camera to computer? Or do I have to deal with some conversion to achieve 25p or something like that?

camera records in interlaced, when capturing via firewire or SDI to FCP I have to select the 50i in my capture settings. So, basicly, how is the end result different? I mean, does this mean, that when I playback 50i which was captured as 25F (but recorded 25F) I actuallly get progressive frame?

No, the camera does not record in interlaced when you select 25f. It records progressive. I think the problme is Final Cut Pro 5 does not support the new PAL version of HDV2. Let's wait 'till Monday to see what is announced.

- ShannonRawls.com

HDVxDV is supposed to do the capture and the conversion but in two separate passes. I have one copy of the trial program running on each of two machines. One will capture but not convert (G4 power book) and the other will convert but not capture (Dual G5). Conversion can be done by MPEG Streamclip.

You can capture through FW (at least for 50i, haven't managed 25f yet). Shannon, if you rember the program to convert to AIC - please post! Would be most helpful! //All Best Jonas

Thanks Jonas. I forgot this is based on 1080i. You don´t think much about that when looking at the footage because it looks progressive.

I captured 25F using the HDV Apple-intermediate codec preset. Worked like a charm. I then used these sequense settings in the timeline. See link.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3152/seqsetting8wa.png

It´s 1080i but it looks and feels like progressive. I will take a deeper look at the seperat fields later. For now, this is all I need to know.

I never thought it could be this easy. It´s just like editing DV :)))
I tried some color corr. and it´s realtime as always. My decklink SD card does the realtime downrez to my 800 line SD monitor. I´m very pleased.

No, the camera does not record in interlaced when you select 25f. It records progressive. I think the problme is Final Cut Pro 5 does not support the new PAL version of HDV2. Let's wait 'till Monday to see what is announced.

- ShannonRawls.com

Well, Ok, I used the wrong word. In 25F camera records in 25fps progressive and outputs signal converted into 50 fps interlaced. (these is exact sentence from manual) So what I meant in my question was the following:

Since it does output signal in 50i, in FCP or even HDVxDV it is captured via firewire exactly as it is output - 50 fps interlaced. So what do I get on the computer? It technically is 50fps interlaced, I understand that the original recorded data was progressive, but when I playback, is it progressive or is it interlaced. Or is there any way to convert it to true progressive, like for example to deinterlace?

Oh, and BTW Shannon, you had a whole lot of influence on my decision to buy the camera, and I love it, but this technical stuff I don't understand, and on the same time couldn't get the final answer.

Since it does output signal in 50i, in FCP or even HDVxDV it is captured via firewire exactly as it is output - 50 fps interlaced. So what do I get on the computer?


You get progressive frames. At least that´s how it looks and feels like. No interlace flicker in frames.

I have managed to capture in FCP 5 (from Canon running at 30f) using their intermediate HDV codec, but FCP throws up nasty messages at me when I try to bring the file into a timeline so I can't view it or edit it. I was, however, able to view the material during capture, so I'm assumiong it got inside the computer somehow!

Shannon, or anyone, as you seem to have edited 30f material in FCP, could you please share with me the workflow of how you got there?

I don't want to have to wait for Apple's "promised" codec update.

Many thanks.

Best

Harry

You get progressive frames. At least that´s how it looks and feels like. No interlace flicker in frames.

Yes, correct, it doesn't flicker, but technically it is still interlaced. It doesn't have flicker just because the initial source is progressive, so interlaced fields are from the same moment in time, this is why it doesn't flicker (I guess), but is it the best or would there be an improvement if we somehow managed to convert it to real progressive file. I don't know, I am not sure... Maybe it allready is progressive after all.

Yes, correct, it doesn't flicker, but technically it is still interlaced. It doesn't have flicker just because the initial source is progressive, so interlaced fields are from the same moment in time, this is why it doesn't flicker (I guess), but is it the best or would there be an improvement if we somehow managed to convert it to real progressive file. I don't know, I am not sure... Maybe it already is progressive after all.

If you de-interlace you see loss of resolution. So both fields are needed to make a full frame. But when movies are transferred to video. They don´t get less progressive, do they?

I may be wrong, but I don´t think it gets much more progressive than this. Even at the cinema you see every 24 frames flicker twice before you eyes. 48 shutter in the machine when the reel is projected. So it´s how it´s recorded that matters.

So is there a way I can Capture through firewire into my Powerbook
at 24f - or do I have to wait for the FCP 24f update?

If you de-interlace you see loss of resolution. So both fields are needed to make a full frame. But when movies are transferred to video. They don´t get less progressive, do they?

I may be wrong, but I don´t think it gets much more progressive than this. Even at the cinema you see every 24 frames flicker twice before you eyes. 48 shutter in the machine when the reel is projected. So it´s how it´s recorded that matters.


ye, but in cinema it flickers twice but the same field. So what I am saying is following.


Now lets assume with xl h1 you shot a sequence of 5 frames A B C D E, all of them are recorded progressively. Then it outputs this frames in interlaced way and is captured in FCP as AA BB CC DD EE. Now how is it playedback? every 1/48th of the second you get the following it starts with just A- then AA BA BB CB CC DC DD DE EE and so on. So, if what I write here is correct, every other 1/48 of the second you get fields in from two different frames, which is what concerns me. But on the other hand if we could recombine AA BB CC DD EE into A B C D E then we would get the trully progressive frame. but maybe also this is absolutelly incorrect also. This is my assumption, but I am not a technical guy, and I don't even know if fields are displayed in a manner I described here.

So what do you think?

ye, but in cinema it flickers twice but the same field. So what I am saying is following.

Now lets assume with xl h1 you shot a sequence of 5 frames A B C D E, all of them are recorded progressively. Then it outputs this frames in interlaced way and is captured in FCP as AA BB CC DD EE. Now how is it playedback? every 1/48th of the second you get the following it starts with just A- then AA BA BB CB CC DC DD DE EE and so on.

I see your point. I´m in PAL land. Here we use 25 frames which lines up perfectly. So I guess someone else should answer that question.

You can capture through FW (at least for 50i, haven't managed 25f yet).

Do you mean you tried 25F but it wouldn't work?

I can't see why FCP can't cope with 25F, isn't it carried in a 50i field with simultaneous fields? Surely the computer just sees it as a 50i HDV stream? Can someone explain?

Do you mean you tried 25F but it wouldn't work?

I can't see why FCP can't cope with 25F, isn't it carried in a 50i field with simultaneous fields? Surely the computer just sees it as a 50i HDV stream? Can someone explain?
Mike, I have captured 25F with firewire using Apple intermediate codec. No problem at all.

Mike, I have captured 25F with firewire using Apple intermediate codec. No problem at all.

Per Kristian,
So the waiting for an update of FCP to cope with the XL H1 in F mode is only for the NTSC world?! Great for us in PAL countries!
By the way, does it work well with FCP? How big Apple computer do you recommend for efficient work?
Hälsningar Johan

Mike, I have captured 25F with firewire using Apple intermediate codec. No problem at all.

Thanks,
But you can't edit 25F natively? I was wondering what prevented FCP from working with 25F because isn't it just a 50i stream with simultaneously captured fields?

Thanks,
But you can't edit 25F natively? I was wondering what prevented FCP from working with 25F because isn't it just a 50i stream with simultaneously captured fields?


Exactly Mike, that's exactly what I was trying to exlain when I described the A B C D E process overall. Actually I also have PAL version. And I absolutelly agree with what you say, it is 50i but with simultaneously captured frames. So, the question is, at the end, is it progressive at all? If not, what can we do to make it progressive? Or should we wait untill FCP will natively support 25F mode as well?

Maybe I can help here.
Film telecined in PAL land runs at 25fps and ends up as 50i. Well actually it's now know as 25psf to designate the different. 25 frames are created per second and each of these split into two fields that contain the odd and even lines of the original frame. At any point one can simply merge the two fields to create the original frames.
The advantage of this way of working is it's 100% compatible with the existing video system. Also as noted before it's not possible to simply display 25 fps (or even 24fps), the flicker is horrible. Technically one could display the same frame twice but that gains nothing as far as I know compared to displaying the alternate fields. Certainly no one seems to see any problem watching film originated movies on PAL TVs.
Does any of this matter in regard to editing, can you simply treat 25psf as 50i?
Well your NLE will be none the wiser, it's got no way of knowing that the two fields originated at the same time unlike 50i where the two fields are taken 20mSec apart (that's why 50i has interlace artifacts). However there is a subtle difference that may or may not cause you concern. All your transitions will be rendered interlaced, they will exhibit interlace artifacts and if you attemp to de-interlace the rendered file they'll be quite apparent. The saving grace is that only temporal transitions are affected, things like page curls (shudder), dissolves should be fine. If you're delivering for 50i broadcast I doubt many would ever notice, it's more of an issue in NTSC land where the film is 24fps but the FXs can end up rendered at 60i, many US sitcoms are done this way.
Hope this clears it up.

Per Kristian,
So the waiting for an update of FCP to cope with the XL H1 in F mode is only for the NTSC world?! Great for us in PAL countries!
By the way, does it work well with FCP? How big Apple computer do you recommend for efficient work?
Hälsningar Johan

I have a G5 dual 2.0 and that works great for me. I have only done some test editing because I have a dead-line for a DVD release. BUT, I was really surprised how smooth everything was. To me it feels just like editing SD or even DV. Mooving through frames is as fast as always and color correction real time as always. Now.. in safe RT
that´s about what you can do in real-time. Even a simple crossfade asks for rendering on my machine. In unlimited RT you can do realtime cross and some more. How much more I don´t know yet. Anyway, you need a machine as fast as possible.

Me, I think I´m going to wait and see what the new Intel mac´s about. I wonder what could be done with the quad´s though.

Mange hilsener fra broderlandet.
Per Kr.