This should be a complete list... if something ain't working, let me know...

These might be moved from hdvinfo.net to p2info.net, if and when that happens I'll post it here.

http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVX200carspassing1080_24p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXbamboo108024p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXbamboo1080i.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXchopper60pgamma.mov.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXcitu108024pa.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXcity108024p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXcity1080i.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXcity72060p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXdarkshowcase108024p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXmotoflips60p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXskidking60p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXstatic1080icarspassing.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXtameskidpan1080i.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXyugoceltap60p.zip
http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo/HVXyugoseq60p.zip

We put these in "HDV Info Net" because it was convenient at the moment... so please don't give me static about this not being HDV! Somebody out there is thinking that... I know I would be.

FINALLY!

200kbps+ downloading.

Thanks Chris. *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

Wait a minute....Are any of these converted to .WMV files for us PC users since PC's wont play any of the HVX200 footage.

these are the same files for MacOS

which ones do we PC users download? dont want to download 400MB (waste ur bandwidth) to find out it a MAC clip...

Nothing is. I'm going to do what Jeff metion in other thread to prepare the files for windows users, but if I do that, I can't go out to shoot.

What do people think about what I shot so far? I know they are not professionally shot, but am I providing enough variations for people to evaluate the cam well? Then, I will work on Windows stuff and when the sun goes down, I will do the night shooting.

Nothing is. I'm going to do what Jeff metion in other thread to prepare the files for windows users, but if I do that, I can't go out to shoot.

What do people think about what I shot so far? I know they are not professionally shot, but am I providing enough variations for people to evaluate the cam well? Then, I will work on Windows stuff and when the sun goes down, I will do the night shooting.

oh oh... u go out shooting... maybe some mac guy who has downloaded ur stuff can burn it in PC format and share...

Screw the windows users Kaku...go get that footage!!!!!!

And what do I think of what you've done so far????

I think....

and this is just my opinion...

that you....

Kaku Ito....

ARE AWESOME!!!! And I appreciate everything you do for the Digital Video Community.
It's hard to find unbiased opinions like yours 'round these parts.

But that's just me.

- ShannonRawls.com

If somebody can do the conversions then I can host those clips too.

And YOU!!!

Mr. CHRIS "Smackdown" HURD!

You're the man too for making this place possible.

*daps*

- ShannonRawls.com

Ah, Shannon....that's rather drastic.

I think they are well frustrated already. I'm trying to do something for the Windows users.

Any Mac can save out the files as AVIs but it would be DVCProHD wrapped in AVI so I suspect one would still need the DVCProHD codec.

I think the issue is, is that all the Mac users here have Final Cut Pro 4.5 or 5.0 and they come with the DVCProHD codec. Apparently MANY Windows NLEs do NOT include the DVCProHD codec.

If it's Quicktime .mov files at issue, any FCP system or QuicktimePro can save the file as AVI instead without any additional compression.

Mac users with Flip4Mac Studio Pro can create WMVHD files but those are compressed of course.

I think Jan C. may have implied (or I inferred) on another thread that some Windows NLEs might be able to read the MXF files.

Hope some of the info here will help in coming up with a workflow to get the files viewable on Windows.

BTW all this is actually a significant issue if one is working in a mixed OS environment. The ability to move these files from FCP ingest to something a Windows user can work with without any additional compression, is certainly something we need to think about and solve in some real world post workflows.

Craig,

Very good point. Can anyone do the conversion for me to AVI and send them to Chris? I'm swamped here. I'm supposed to do a couple of editings and write article for VideoAlpha magazine, too.

If somebody can do these conversions and shoot me an email. Then I'll reply with our FTP upload account info. I'm on the road again tomorrow, heading frtom Dallas back to San Marcos, so it might be later tomorrow night before I can do anything. But try to contact me anyway and I'll see what I can do.

(Hey Kaku -- thanks again for all of your effort with this -- it's much appreciated!)

Mucho huge millions of thanks to Kaku, Marc Olivier Chouinard, and Chris Hurd for hosting such massive files and offering up such massive bandwidth. Not an easy or inexpensive offering.

All is being confirmed many times over, from Barry Green's, Michael Pappas', and Kaku's footage that beyond the fear, uncertainty, and doubt, a huge revolution is taking place here. And we have yet to see a 35mm imager on the front end. :O :D ;)

Stay tuned...

I think Jan C. may have implied (or I inferred) on another thread that some Windows NLEs might be able to read the MXF files.

Avid Express Pro HD and Canopus Edius Broadcast could both see the native .MXF files. Avid Express Pro HD users can also see the quicktime files.

The Avid DV100 (DVCPRO-HD) codec is freely downloadable, but that in and of itself doesn't let windows users see these files. You actually have to be running Avid in order to see them.

So right now the quicktimes are only viable for Mac users and for Avid Express Pro HD users.

FCP and QuicktimePro can of course play DVCProHD without issue BUT can only save DVCPro and DVCPro50 to AVI.

Why the heck would then NOT provide a means to save DVCProHD to an AVI wrapper?

I've done MANY projects where I've had to move DV wrapped in .mov to .avi for clients to some things on their own Windows NLE and graphics systems and never thought that they'd exclude DVCProHD, especially since they support DVCPro50 to AVI.

Apple deserves a MAJOR spanking on this one!

long time watcher - noob poster here ...

Hey, Craig - think Apple will certainly release a save to .avi. Next QT update - or with OS 10.4.4 - my guess only.

Don't think Panasonic could have reliably informed them prior to the last qt update, when the release date would be.

Sheesh - the whole game is moving sooo fast atm, as I know you know - not just for us but Apple and devs as well ...

Rob,

Apple supported DVCProHD in Final Cut Pro 4.5. FCP4.x came with QuicktimePro 6.5.x. You'd think by the time Apple released FCP5 (which added HDV support) and came with QuicktimePro 7, they'd have included the ability to save DVCProHD to AVI. It wouldn't be a great leap for them since they do support saving DVCPro50 to AVI.

Some thinking out loud.
There are basically three major NLEs on the Mac. Final Cut Pro, Avid which is cross platform, Media 100 (now owned by Boris) which has a software only version of Media 100. I'm not sure if that'll be cross platform but I would suspect the various Media 100s on the Windows side can read files out of the Media 100 variants on the Mac side.

Addendum - I also looked at exporting to DV stream and that too supports DVCPro and DVCPro50 but NOT DVCProHD

Barry,
You mention Avid Express HD supporting Quicktime. Canopus Edius Broadcast supports MXF. Will it support DVCProHD in an AVI wrapper?
Does Avid Express HD support MXF or would one have to go to the "higher" Avid systems? What about Pinnacle now owned by Avid (Avid Liquid)? Sony Vegas or would one have to have an Xpri?

I'm trying to discern which Windows NLEs support DVCProHD and if there's a common wrapper between MXF and AVI (apparently NOT MOV) they can handle DVCProHD in?

I see this as a major issue for people who work in cross platform environments.

"Rob,

Apple supported DVCProHD in Final Cut Pro 4.5. FCP4.x came with QuicktimePro 6.5.x. You'd think by the time Apple released FCP5 (which added HDV support) and came with QuicktimePro 7, they'd have included the ability to save DVCProHD to AVI. It wouldn't be a great leap for them since they do support saving DVCPro50 to AVI"

I agree - as you say, cross platform working environments are common. Yes, it's necessary.
Apple's call I'd say.

Canopus Edius Broadcast supports MXF. Will it support DVCProHD in an AVI wrapper?
Canopus keeps the file in MXF format throughout the entire production process. I believe they can also export an AVI; Canopus has a software DVCPRO-HD codec called Canopus HD; they've actually had that for a long time. The new Broadcast version combines their previous option packs together to make a one-package bundle that gives you everything you need. At least, that's what I got from them at the DV Expo demo; I haven't delved any deeper into Edius than that demo.

Does Avid Express HD support MXF or would one have to go to the "higher" Avid systems?
Express Pro HD has full MXF support, and all the higher-end systems do too.

What about Pinnacle now owned by Avid (Avid Liquid)?
Stephen L. Noe knows a lot more about Pinnacle than I do; from what I understand the current edition of Liquid has native .MXF support and also has DVCPRO50 support. It doesn't have HD support, but it would seem relatively minor to add that, especially since their new parent company Avid freely distributes a DVCPRO-HD codec.

Sony Vegas or would one have to have an Xpri?
Sony's Vegas is the odd man out right now. They have no support whatsoever for DVCPRO50, DVCPRO-HD, or MXF files (other than the proprietary Sony-only flavor of MXF as used in the Sony XDCAM product). There's been much discussion back and forth about whether Vegas would support DVCPRO-HD; I've been in contact with some people there and done what I can to facilitate them moving forward, but I don't know if or when we'll see proper support implemented.

I'm trying to discern which Windows NLEs support DVCProHD and if there's a common wrapper between MXF and AVI (apparently NOT MOV) they can handle DVCProHD in?
Canopus Edius Broadcast has the most thorough end-to-end MXF support and they have thoroughly integrated DVCPRO-HD support. You can edit MXF files straight from the card in Edius.

Avid is only the slightest bit behind; they apparently don't maintain 100% of the metadata all the way through the production process, but they do have native DVCPRO-HD support and native MXF support.

Apple has excellent DVCPRO-HD support, but the weakest MXF support. It doesn't really support MXF natively at all; FCP requires you to "ingest" the P2 MXF files, which unwraps them and re-wraps them into Quicktime .MOVs. Once that's done, the editing process is sweet and real-time, but that process does take time.

Neither Avid nor Canopus make you do that. If you're PC-based, Avid Express Pro HD and Canopus Edius Broadcast are what you want to be looking at; they're 100% fully-functional, fully-integrated, realtime editing stations for DVCPRO-HD content.

I see this as a major issue for people who work in cross platform environments.
Well, obviously Avid would have some advantages, being basically the only cross-platform editor. But Canopus maintains the MXF format the best. If someone's working with FCP though, perhaps Avid is the better PC choice because as I understand it, Avid can open and edit the Apple Quicktime DVCPRO-HD .mov files. I don't know whether Canopus can do that or not.

Sorry if I'm asking questions with obvious answers, but I want to know, based on what this thread discusses, what are the minimum requirements for a PC system running Avid or Canopus that will be capable of editing DVCPro HD. I'm not a professional, so I really am asking for the minimum. I don't even know how to get the footage from the P2 card to my PC!

And how much Hard Drive space will the video files take up? If 2 250GIG hard drives suits well enough for a couple of hours worth of HDV, would an upgrade be needed for this DVProHD footage?

Also, there's no mention of Premiere Pro (it's my favourite editor) - has Premiere missed the boat completely with DVProHD?

Sorry if I'm asking questions with obvious answers, but I want to know, based on what this thread discusses, what are the minimum requirements for a PC system running Avid or Canopus that will be capable of editing DVCPro HD.
Best to look at the company's websites and look at their minimum requirements. I know on the Apple platform it doesn't take much at all; an old 1.33ghz powerbook can do it.

I don't even know how to get the footage from the P2 card to my PC!
Many, many ways. All of them much easier than logging and capturing tape! Probably the easiest way is to a laptop computer; you just plug the P2 card into the laptop and it shows up on your desktop as an external hard disk. Then just copy the files over. If going to a desktop you can get a card reader, or you can use the camera itself as a card reader. Just plug in the USB port and the camera will show up on your desktop as two external hard disks (one for each slot). Again, just copy the files over or, if you want, you could edit the files straight from the cards.

Also, you can plug a hard disk into the HVX and have it copy the files over to the hard disk, and then you just plug that hard disk into the computer and edit away.


And how much Hard Drive space will the video files take up?
A minute per gigabyte for the heaviest-duty footage, 2.5 minutes per gigabyte for 720/24p.

If 2 250GIG hard drives suits well enough for a couple of hours worth of HDV, would an upgrade be needed for this DVProHD footage?
No, two 250-gig drives would provide for 9 hours of source footage in 1080 mode, or around 25 hours of 720/24p footage!

Also, there's no mention of Premiere Pro (it's my favourite editor) - has Premiere missed the boat completely with DVProHD?
Currently Premiere Pro has no support at all, although there are persistent rumors that a forthcoming version 2.0 may have support.

Wow!

Thanks for that!

I'm impressed! I had no idea about the USB from Camera to PC option, and I suspected that the requirements on the PC would be substantially higher than for regular HDV. Canopus and Avid recommend Dual Xeon processors for their software but is it safe to assume that Dual AMD Opterons will do just as good a job?

I had almost given in and bought a Z1... Perhaps I'll hold out even longer and see about this camera... I'm told it won't appear here in Australia until March '06 though...

Here is the "HVX200carspassing1080_24p_jpeg.mov" 1080i60 clip, reverse-telecined and converted into Photo jpeg codec (1920x1080, 24p) for playback on PC and slow mac's: http://www.andersholck.com/HVX200carspassing1080_24p_jpeg.mov
(It does have more compression noise than the original DVCPRO HD file. But plays smoothly on my old PowerBook)

The link does not work.

The Canopus website describing Edius starts here:
http://www.canopus.com/products/nlesoftware.php

You can run Edius via firewire only or you can use one of the Canopus hardware options for alternative input/output options. You will need to read through the pages to see what each hardware package offers and to decide which, if any, is relevant to your needs.

The Broadcast bundle will be available (next week?) as an optional add on to EdiusPro3. It looks as though it will be a good value option. It includes DVCPro, DVCPro HD, P2, Varicam, XDCam and Windows Media support.

The link does not work.

Fixed. (I pasted the filename from the finder in OSX, which was truncated)

Wow, i'm very impressed with the latest Kaku clips. The Bamboo clips along with the city shots have a very rich color and texture to them. Very nice. The performance of the HVX200 sofar, is good......

pappas

Michael,

I'm going for the night shooting for a bit soon.

Should I keep the gain to zero all the time? Or do you folks want to see the gain up for certain situation?

Make the same shot once without and for another time with the highest gain.

Good idea Robert.

Thanks Kaku,
I posted all ur info on Sumi-san's BBS,
Also, I've checked almost all your footage, Looks great.
I like to use my FCP-HD to analyze your clip.
60p is so useful and even I tried 4 times slow down, looks great.
I love to use with steadicam.
1080p, I like to see more depth of field test.
let us know,

thanks again

Mr. Funahara,

Many thanks for reporting the scoops from here at Sumi-san's site.
I can't even keep up with providing Japanese information (in my own language) because the demand from the world is so much!!

I will try to do glidecam (V8) when I go do the bike field in Makuhari in few days.

Please wait for DOF stuff, I have to think of something.

I almost thought of calling up Mr. Toru Kogure for cooperation....but he must be busy....can't bother him I think....but maybe I should.

Kaku,

Once again the first footage from the latest camera comes from Kaku!

I enjoyed it, thanks...

Nice to see the neighborhood again.

I especially enjoyed seeing the cell phone fall out of his pocket in 60p, bounce off the bike and explode on the ground.

Frederic

Kaku,

Once again the first footage from the latest camera comes from Kaku!

I enjoyed it, thanks...

Nice to see the neighborhood again.

I especially enjoyed seeing the cell phone fall out of his pocket in 60p, bounce off the bike and explode on the ground.

Frederic

Yes, it's a new trick called Cellphone whip! Not.

Thank you for your encouragement my friend!

Thanks to Kaku for taking the time to shoot and distribute this footage and to Chris Hurd for the bandwidth space to provide this footage to all of us! I'm downloading the last files now and they all look great.

Is it me, or no Mac User gave any h264 or other option for the windows user ? Mac user are really the worst user friendly out there ;) Excluding Kaku ofcourse who have to spend his precious time shooting those video.

Ive tryed extracting the dvcpro hd video to raw file than try other dvcpro hd decoder and it didnt work. It like if the Mac produced dvcpro HD is not correctly created (Which wouldnt surprise me). I can't wait for the day that Mac die first, then Windows die so Linux or other nice opensource os prevail !!! :)

Hope to see a Windows user who sadly own a Mac at the same time to convert the files, mouhaha

Is it me, or no Mac User gave any h264 or other option for the windows user ? Mac user are really the worst user friendly out there ;) Excluding Kaku ofcourse who have to spend his precious time shooting those video.

Ive tryed extracting the dvcpro hd video to raw file than try other dvcpro hd decoder and it didnt work. It like if the Mac produced dvcpro HD is not correctly created (Which wouldnt surprise me). I can't wait for the day that Mac die first, then Windows die so Linux or other nice opensource os prevail !!! :)

Hope to see a Windows user who sadly own a Mac at the same time to convert the files, mouhaha

Marc,

Did you see this? (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57075)

and how did my H.264 file work for you?

Hi nope didnt saw it, Thanks alot for uploading this, I'll load it up into avid hd ;)

the h264 work in VideoLan.org, my favorite video player.

I guess you can get it for mac too and see the result with it, it should be the same on a windows user.

Only detail I forgot to specify is that my laptop aint powerfull ennuf to play it... I guess it time I put my Dual Xeon 3.06ghz back in Windows so I can start playing with those files. (I originated got this box to edit DV video, but soon realised it was just premiere what processor intensive, moved to avid and I was back on my laptop.

If I can open the P2 file in avid, I'll make a WMV HD video. at 8Mbits/sec, should look very nice

Hi Kaku,

Sorry I missed your question. I got offline after my post. Most important to shoot clean @ 0db ; as well try the other gain settings for the same shots if possible.

Kaku can you do the same Panoramic city shot your did and stationary shot that you did with the H1. As well the pier/bay shots with the H1.

Very important to film some of those same shots that you got with the H1 so I and others can compare side by side footage from both cameras.

Again, Kaku thanks.


Michael,

I'm going for the night shooting for a bit soon.

Should I keep the gain to zero all the time? Or do you folks want to see the gain up for certain situation?

Planning to do the Makuhari panoramic shot maybe with Jemore/HC100 together. Hope this happens, so I can ride my bike there a bit too.

Planning to do the Makuhari panoramic shot maybe with Jemore/HC100 together. Hope this happens, so I can ride my bike there a bit too.


How many clips have you put up so far, I'm trying to keep track. 15 clips correct, minus the h.264 clip.

Something like that. Oh, also the raw archive of P2 content is up, but maybe not open to public yet.

I had shot some tonight. Some came out okay.
24p at 1/24 is good even in the night with little light and gain at zero. I will post more tomorrow.

Something like that. Oh, also the raw archive of P2 content is up, but maybe not open to public yet.

I had shot some tonight. Some came out okay.
24p at 1/24 is good even in the night with little light and gain at zero. I will post more tomorrow.


Make sure that it's 24p at 1/48th. No 1/24th, unless for a test shot. 1/24th has way to much blur. Make sure to shoot at 1/48th when in 24p...

Ok now Im disapointed, it seem Avid Xpress PRO HD support up to DVCPRO 50, not 100 !!! Anyone got the DVCPRO HD content to load in avid ?

From what I was told...

...Only for MACS Marc. Avid Xproess Pro HD will not handle DVCPRO-HD of any kind in MAC. To cut DVCPRO-HD on a MAC, you are limited to Final Cut Pro. There are no other programs that work.

For PC, you can use Avid Xpress Pro HD to cut DVCPRO-HD footage, but only at a select few frame rates.
Xpress Pro HD does not support 1080p24 or have provisions for doing the pulldown either. it only cuts 1080i59.97 & 1080i50. If you want to cut 1080p24 footage from the HVX200 then you have to capture it with the $80k high priced Avid Adrenaline only. After you do that, you can finally bring into Xpress Pro HD and cut it.
Additionally it will not support any of the variable frame rates for 720p other then 24 and 60. This is good for the Varicam because it can shoot 720p24 or 720p23.976(dropframe). I am not sure if the HVX can shoot anything other then 720p23.976, so if you're 720p24 footage has dropdown in it(23.976) then it can't be captured with Avid Xpress Pro either. It must also be captured with Avid Adrenaline first and then finally brought over to Xpress Pro HD. This is all what I was told when investigating if I should switch from Vegas to Avid.

I suppose this is why nobody cuts in HDCAM or HDV or DVCPRO-HD using low cost NLE's. It's always cut in a proxy file. (usually DV) Ofcourse, if you have a high price NLE like Avid Adrenaline or Nitris ($80,000 & $110,000 repectively) then you just cut the stuff uncompressed and don't worry about anything. *smile*

Either way, PC owners are gonna have some serious troubles handling native DVCPRO-HD footage until these companies pan out the issues. In the mean time, make a DV proxy or cut it uncompressed if you have the $$$.

MAC users got it made!

- ShannonRawls.com

Mac users do have it made. When I first tried using the Vegas workaround with DVFilm Maker and the Avid codec and got 4fps playback, and then saw a lowly 1.33ghz G4 laptop playing full-screen, full-res, full-frame-rate HD, I was tempted to make the switch right then and there. Only thing that is really holding me back is the whole thing about whether Intel Mac laptops will be introduced at MacWorld in a week or two.

As for PC, Canopus has (from all reports I've heard) a rock-solid implementation.

I was unaware of the limitations you're describing for Avid on the PC; I'll ask Michael Phillips if he can weigh in and explain things further.

Yes, I think Canopus will capture & cut ALL FORMS of DVCPRO-HD no matter what you throw at it. But investigate that, I am not for sure, But I beleive it does. Only thing is....I don't know about using this Canopus EDIUS stuff. I know they are doing some HEAVY advertising and some SERIOUS R&D to position themselves to be up there with the big/known boys. But I mean, if I have to leave Vegas, then *shrugging shoulders* let me leave for a NLE people know about. One I can exchange files with easily.....like AVID. ya know?

And about them MAC users Barry.....You ain't neva lied brutha!
I went to the MAC store at The Grove the other day when me and wifey went to see King Kong.
Them G5's were might tempting!!
Not to mention a record producer buddy of mine has a full-on Pro-Tools HD studio and his MAC is pumping out records for him like a pied piper. It's amazing. Plus that program "SOUNDTRACK PRO" is just a god-send for those who want to score their own movies. (like me) Nothing compares to it for PC.

I was thinking today.....Maybe I should get a MAC??
That way I'll get Pro-Tools, FCP, Soundtrack and simply do all my "MEDIA STUFF" in my MAC system and do "BUSINESS STUFF" on my PC.

Then I realized, if I go DVCPRO-HD...it might make sense. But if I stay HDV, then MAC sucks like the rest of 'em. Especially with that "Capture now, Catch-up later and don't unplug your camera" method of ingesting HDV it uses now. CineForm has basically SAVED the PC's when it comes to HDV, thank goodness for them.

So what do I do as a PC user? ...... wait patiently. lol
If Sony Vegas don't do something fast...I may be a new G5 owner soon.

- ShannonRawls.com