Just tried the car passing 1080 24P in AVID Xpress Pro HD v5.2 (PC).
I hear sound but video is just a white screen?


Any ideas ?


thxs, Steve

Same with Liquid 6.1 or DVFilmMaker 2.21. Seems that MOVs are not going to work on PC.

I kept asking how I can bring in the MXF data on windows but not getting any specific answers.

Anyone?

Sorry I can't help. Thanks Kaku for all your work!

I kept asking how I can bring in the MXF data on windows but not getting any specific answers.

Anyone?

Try import into AVID Xpress Pro HD

the 720 60P stuff worked with AVID on PC...

Looks good on first viewing, I'm stuck on a G5 iMac with no external monitor, but considering it's all on auto it's very encouraging.

I'm using my laptop right now with AVID. I need to load these files onto my main video editing PC. The skidking file (720 60P) blacks out when I press play, but the still image returns when stopped. Something weird must be up with the overlay on my junk laptop.

Steve

I kept asking how I can bring in the MXF data on windows but not getting any specific answers.

Anyone?

Download and install the AVID codec pack:
http://www.avid.com/content/7952/AvidCodecsLE101.zip

Download the demo version of DV Film Maker, unzip and run:
http://www.dvfilm.com/hvx200/maker221demo.zip


Drag the MXF file to the DV Film Maker window. Should be able to view and/or convert.

I'm using my laptop right now with AVID. I need to load these files onto my main video editing PC. The skidking file (720 60P) blacks out when I press play, but the still image returns when stopped. Something weird must be up with the overlay on my junk laptop.

Steve

Is your overlay set to play out on a secondary monitor or TV output?

Kaku,

Thanks for doing this for everyone. I just downloaded the HVX200carspassing1080_24p.mov to a Mac DP 2.0. After the download was complete, "Stuff It" unzipped the file and opened FCP 5.0.4 while opening the new file in it. GREAT!!! This was the smoothest HD/HDV file downloading experience I've had to date.

The footage looks nice. IMO, the colors are more rich than the H1. }

That exactly what i'm seeing here.
At first look, colors seem richer than what i've seen from the H1.

Two great camcorders i guess.

My quick feedback is that it looks great with no visible noise. The motion of 60p is stunning for sure. I tried blowing the image out with color correction in FCP and, sure, I can make it look ugly, but anything reasonable that I'd do to an image looks awesome. This is in contrast to the noise seen in the pre-production Michael Pappas footage. Now I'd like to see how lower light looks with the HVX.

So far, it's hard to see the difference in quality between HVX200 and XL-H1, except the lattitude seems to be greater in the footage shot by Kaku and Barry. On the blown out parts of Kaku's footage, I was surprised to see there is actually more detail in there once you bring down levels. :)

One more observation, on high motion, at least with 1080i capture, it looks like the HVX200 is the winner.

Here's a single frame interpolated from a single field from the HVX200:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/DVCPROHD_vs_HDV/HVX200_SingleFrame_From_Interlaced.jpg

Here's a single frame interpolated from a single field from the XL-H1:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/DVCPROHD_vs_HDV/XL-H1_SingleFrame_From_Interlaced.jpg

However, I would argue that 24F or 30F mode would probably yield superior results than the interlaced mode on the XL-H1.

Hi Kaku,

Try this. On the mac, go to your finder and navigate to the P2 card, be it in your computer or in the camera that is mounted to look like a hard drive. Take the folder CONTENTS and move the entire thing over to a download area. If that is just too much data, navigate and delete some of clips. The video clips are the biggest, and then be sure to remove the ICONs and audio for those same clips.

Then folks that have systems that can support the MXF should be able to import just as if it were a P2 card once the folder is downloaded.

Best,

Jan

So far, it's hard to see the difference in quality between HVX200 and XL-H1, except the lattitude seems to be greater in the footage shot by Kaku and Barry.

In my comparisons, the XLH is pushing way more pixels.

BUT, the XLH is WAY more compressed, and it shows easily, especially on a proper HD monitor. This sounds like a cop-out, but I think they BOTH look very good in their own ways.

In fact, of the 4 cameras currently available, there's only one that I think comes up a bit short.

and that would be?

In fact, of the 4 cameras currently available, there's only one that I think comes up a bit short.


Which one is that Nate? Just curious!

hey, jeff... you need avid xpress to use your method, right?

This sounds like a cop-out, but I think they BOTH look very good in their own ways.

Actually I don't think it's a cop-out. I think it's very reasonable and accurate to say. The most positive spin is that we have amazing tools available now. The negative spin is that for many, the decision on which *one* to purchase or workflow to buy into generates the argument of which is *better*.

I have tremendous respect and lust for the XL-H1. But now it's really time to welcome the HVX200!

All of Kaku's footage looks amazing downres'd to SD on a broadcast monitor. Anyone out there viewing this material out of a Kona/Blackmagic card into an HDTV?

Note Added: Also worth mentioning, FCP is downconverting DVCPRO HD in a DV25 timeline and streaming out via Firewire in real time with a few filters on it, effortlessly on a Quad G5.

AVID's freely available DV100 codec only supports DVCPROHD via MXF files - not thru QT.
Not entirely true; you can use the Avid codec within Vegas or Premiere Pro and use it to make quicktime files.

But it won't work with a quicktime file that's been created on a Mac. Don't know why, but that's the problem. If I render a QT from the PC/Vegas using the Avid codec it shows up fine. If I download Mac-originated DV100 quicktime files, all I get is the white screen.

I've heard it works within Avid though -- apparently Avid Express Pro HD users can view the Mac-originated DV100 Quicktime files.

Jeff's posted method (DVFilm Maker & the Avid codec pack) will let PC users get access to the raw .MXF files and convert them to Quicktime .MOVs. Or, alternatively, DVFilm Maker can output other types of files; if you had CineForm on your system you could output a CineForm .AVI, etc.

Jan being that the camera is shipping already, how about a pdf file with the user manual. It will help us get more familiar with the camera until we receive shipment. Thanks.

Which one is that Nate? Just curious!

Starts with S, ends in Y.

Anyone out there viewing this material out of a Kona/Blackmagic card into an HDTV?

I am, to a Sony broadcast HD monitor. It looks a hair sharper than my HD100, but is very close in 720. In 1080 it's not as sharp as XLH, but still very nice. This is ignoring lots of other factors, like latitude and lens behavior.

I think the great victory of the HVX will be how EASY it will be to get great looking HD...unlike the JVC which takes a lot of knowledge and practice. The ease getting good looking stuff, plus the simplicity of post will make it the choice, I think.

I'd also like to see an Operating Instructions manual (PDF) posted on Panasonic's website for the HVX200. Please post it now that the camera is shipping. :)

Starts with S, ends in Y.

You mean the cheapest one!

great line up now for lower end HD

Sony FX1/Z1 if you're on a budget and don't mind interlace

JVC if you're a filmmaker on a budget who knows how to operate a Camera correctly

Canon if you need 1080 and better glass on the front.

HVX if you don't mind the fixed lens but want ALL those framerate options and a good in camera filmlook.

A bit simplistic I know, but basically it's all good news!

Personally it's the Canon AND the HVX for us - best of both worlds.

I'd also like to see an Operating Instructions manual (PDF) posted on Panasonic's website for the HVX200. Please post it now that the camera is shipping. :)


Am working on it. Right now the only version I have is 20MBs, too big to email and too large for a download. So hopefully soon the publications guys will send it to me.

Best,

Jan

too big for email, but not too big for hosting, JAN...

plz do so, it would be very useful and even could help some of us making the choice of buying the camera, since the manuals explain a lot of doubts

I second that Alex. I have cable modem access, so it would probably take less than a minute to download. :: wink :: wink :: :D

This has been the most anticipated release in a long time in my view. I'd like to poke around the manual to familiarize myself with the "ins and outs" of this wonderous camera.

Not entirely true; you can use the Avid codec within Vegas or Premiere Pro and use it to make quicktime files.

I guess so, just hadn't tried that... But yeah, it does show up now in Vegas.

But it won't work with a quicktime file that's been created on a Mac. Don't know why, but that's the problem. If I render a QT from the PC/Vegas using the Avid codec it shows up fine. If I download Mac-originated DV100 quicktime files, all I get is the white screen.

Yep.

I've heard it works within Avid though -- apparently Avid Express Pro HD users can view the Mac-originated DV100 Quicktime files.

Yeah, it works... I took the cheerleader/basketball footage over to my local Avid dealer and it worked fine.

Jeff's posted method (DVFilm Maker & the Avid codec pack) will let PC users get access to the raw .MXF files and convert them to Quicktime .MOVs. Or, alternatively, DVFilm Maker can output other types of files; if you had CineForm on your system you could output a CineForm .AVI, etc.

Yeah, I'm itching to try this out... The guys at DV Film say it will work. If it works, then I won't have to buy Avid (at least not right away) and I can keep using Vegas. I just need someone to post some native MXF stuff.

Right now the only version I have is 20MBs
Please... Pretty please?!?! (with sugar, and all that) Heck, none of us would mind a 20MB download considering the clips being posted are well over that.

Jan....

How is 20mbs to big for download, maybe 6 years ago. Kaku is pushing out way larger files, you telling me the huge Panasonic has bandwidth issue. hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Am working on it. Right now the only version I have is 20MBs, too big to email and too large for a download. So hopefully soon the publications guys will send it to me.

Best,

Jan

Please... Pretty please?!?! (with sugar, and all that) Heck, none of us would mind a 20MB download considering the clips being posted are well over that.

Actually I doubt Jan is too concerned about our ability to grab a 20 meg file; I think that its just larger than they're willing to host on their server. I just checked the color brochure and its less than 2 megs in size, so the Panasonic webmasters are probably quite frugal when it comes to hosting files.

Not to mention that *MOST* people out there (ie: their potential customers) don't have the bandwidth and/or the desire to download a 20MB file. It's a users' guide... It should be a B&W PDF, probably about 1 to 4 MB in size and the closer to 1~2MB the better.

wmv files anyone?

Can you upload an MXF file directly off the card? or are one of the zip files on the FTP already an MXF?

thanks amigo...

The ZIP files currently contain Quicktime files, which won't play on Windows, but if you have a MAC, you might be in business if you have the DVCPRO-HD codec... Jan mentioned ealier in this post that the MXF files can be copied directly off the card from the CONTENT folder. It'd be great if someone posts the RAW MXF files.

The guys at DV Film say it will work. If it works, then I won't have to buy Avid (at least not right away) and I can keep using Vegas. I just need someone to post some native MXF stuff.

It does work, but only partially. The biggest problem is with 720p stuff -- DVFilm copies the contents over untouched, and Apple's Quicktime player will open the file and play it at native 720p. But Vegas insists on the file being 1920x1080. So Vegas scales it up to 1920x1080, even though the actual codec data is 960x720.

It does the same thing with 1080; instead of reporting the proper size it reports a full 1920x1080. Not ideal.

And then, on a reasonably fast system, you'll find that the Avid codec running through the Quicktime interface in Vegas is quite pokey. Around 4 frames per second. A proper native implementation should be playing back four or five streams in full-screen in realtime.

Overall the workaround is nowhere near a satisfactory solution. It is better than nothing, that's for sure; but it's not what we need. Not yet, at least.

I'm up. Jeez, it's after 11:15am.
Man, too many posts to read up...:)

People have to understand that hosting big file is costly. http://hvx200.moctel.com costed me 50$ just for 10hours of operation. That is over 1500$ per month.

I will have to discontinue this, or make a pay per transfered done. No one will host those huge file for free, and if it cost 50cent per gig of transfer, I wont have any problem pay for a few buck for having highdef, uncompress video.

What about 5$ minus paypal fees (50cent I think). Then 50cent per gig, so 9gig of transfer. I'll cover the user upload cost (ofcouse, since I too want to beable to access it fast too...).

If anyone know of other way to get $ out of this so we lower the cost, Im open for sugestion.

I'm up. Jeez, it's after 11:15am.
Man, too many posts to read up...:)

Well if you'd quit wasting valuable time sleeping... Sheesh.

Well if you'd quit wasting valuable time sleeping... Sheesh.
I was up till 4:00am in the morning and considering what happened the night before...I'm still very sleepy. Pushing too much on 44 year old body.

Jeff moved the files to downloadible location so i will start linking them with descriptions.

Marc:

Bittorrent would be a good solution for this.
http://www.bittorrent.com/introduction.html

2- I have about 50GB of bandwidth I could donate. It actually goes up to around 100GB but the overage charge is $1/GB, so I would like to avoid that. You can click on my name and email me if you're interested.

Some web hosts oversell their bandwidth, so you can take advantage of that. Just pay attention to the overage charges.

powweb.com seems good for bandwidth, but I have no experience with them.
I have my web hosting with dreamhost.com, because it only cost me about $11 for the first year. You can get a year for ~$22 if you use the promo code BEST.


But anyways, bittorrent is likely the best if you put in the effort to figure it out.

I was up till 4:00am in the morning and considering what happened the night before...I'm still very sleepy. Pushing too much on 44 year old body.

Jeff moved the files to downloadible location so i will start linking them with descriptions.

Kaku, you do know I was completely joking, right? :)

You get as much sleep as you need and don't feel too rushed to get us footage. Everyone's waited this long for footage, a few hours either way shouldn't make a big difference at this point.

By the way, I'm setting up my dedicated video editing station at this very moment, can't wait to check some of the footage out! Many thanks for the efforts.

Kaku,

I exported some of your footage to H264 then imported it into Sorenson and compressed it to a setting that will work for a pretty wide audience. Then exported it from Sorenson as a .flv that plays for Mac or Windows.

It looked good enough for me to pick up the phone and call Brian at ZotzDigital.com and ask him where I was on the HVX200 list.

The workflow, the look of the footage... I want this camera.

Anyway, I have a link to one of your 8 second clips that is in a FlashPlayer that should enable just about everyone to see it to get an idea of what could be exported to the web. If you wish, I can post the link. Doesn't matter to me either way... I've seen it ;)

Bittorrent aint a permanent solutions... I HATE TO WAIT For bittorrents... but it an option, I ratter pay to see those footage, if I am to spend 6k$ for a camera, a 5$ for seeing sample amazing video isnt a problem. The first 3 hours took over 70gig of transfer. My cost is 46cent/gig.

Ive put 50cent because of the overhead of the packets that my download counter dont calculate, it just calculate the actual byte transfered.

If I take 4 000 gig of transfer/month, I might a few cent less, but still expensive.

I'm adding links to the description posts. Just do search in the thread with the word "Kakugyo" and it will only display my posts with clips. Thus please do not use the word Kakugyo in this thread.

Kakugyo is not my name, Kaku is my name and gyo means activity. I made up the word for title of my personal website.

We must have been typing at the same time! Nevermind :)

The workflow, the look of the footage... I want this camera.

Anyway, I have a link to one of your 8 second clips that is in a FlashPlayer that should enable just about everyone to see it to get an idea of what could be exported to the web. If you wish, I can post the link. Doesn't matter to me either way... I've seen it ;)
Let's see what you've come up with.

Kaku, your site was brought down (http://www.xtream.ne.jp/ ) to it knees because of those footage ???

Kaku, you do know I was completely joking, right? :)

You get as much sleep as you need and don't feel too rushed to get us footage. Everyone's waited this long for footage, a few hours either way shouldn't make a big difference at this point.

By the way, I'm setting up my dedicated video editing station at this very moment, can't wait to check some of the footage out! Many thanks for the efforts.

Jeff, no matter what you tell me, joke or not joke, I'm still sleepy :).

But it's true that I have to take so much responsiblity for doing this for sure.

I'm cutting and checking the footage on my FCP5 with KONA LH and 24inch full HD pixel Nanao S2410W connected via AJA HDP to get full pixel monitoring. Nanao's response time is 8mm sec, so it is pretty good even for interlace or fast motion on 60p. Only when the fast bamboo leaves moving then it won't do well, so I have tube SD monitor on the side to check the motion. I do have real HD monitor downstairs, but now I'm working with my dedicated personal machine like you are talking about.

and so, after doing all of this, I'm glad that I migrated to HVX200, but don't take my word because my useage is very niche.

Let's see what you've come up with.

Just need the OK from the main man, Kaku.

Kaku, your site was brought down (http://www.xtream.ne.jp/ ) to it knees because of those footage ???

I had a slight problem before we started, the X-serve hunged up. So I had to reboot it. It seems going to the exact download directory seems little slow right now. But I saw maximum of 20 people logged in and doing download.

My connection don't have bandwith limit. It's FTTH and we have our own server running consisting few X-serves and some G5s.

Besides one of the related site being down right now (because of the previous problem), it is quite running okay. (and I had done this before with XLH1 footage, some popular mountainbike clips and so on).

Oh, and we limited the number connection to protect the bandwith.

Just need the OK from the main man, Kaku.

Derek, go ahead. Thanks. Too many posts to respond, too :)