I've heard that they have stopped selling these?
Can I can some feedback with this cam, I have a HD100 and would like to use this as a B-cam and as a deck.
Thanks

If they would have been smart and lowered the prices to what they should be worth ($1500 or below), then more people would have bought them!

Why would they stop selling them? Maybe because they weren't selling too well lately or they're planning to release newer HDV cameras to replace them. Happens all the time, I thought they stopped making them a while back but they still carry them at Fry's Electronics and some specialty stores. Websites had them listed too. If they stopped selling them, then there's no big loss. I don't think they would have been good for a B camera for the HD100 anyway, but as a deck they could have been useful if they worked with all the frame rates (ie. JVC's 24p HDV).

But as a deck they could have been useful if they worked with all the frame rates (ie. JVC's 24p HDV).

They do work with 24p. Here's a section from my GY-HD100 Handbook:

Although 24P video cannot be viewed on these first generation
products, nor can the 24P signal be output from their analog ports, the
720p59.94 HDV carrying 24P is output from their FireWire ports. The
24P HDV can be captured by HDVxDV (www.hdvxdv.com) as 24P video.
(See Chapter 10 for information on working with 24P.)

You can also record, via FireWire, 720p59.94 HDV carrying 24P using
Apple’s DVHScap application.

I wonder if this board's days are numbered. When should it head to the DV Info Net Archive?

I wonder if this board's days are numbered. When should it head to the DV Info Net Archive?

I'm shooting in India with the HD1 and it beats the interlace format Sony FX1/Z1 and HC1/A1 hands-down. Since there are about 10,000 thousand that will be sold on eBay, etc. as folks upgrade to the HD100, etc. -- it seems likely these new owners will want information.

After working with the HD100 and coming back to the HD1 -- I see no reason to stop shooting with the HD1. Of course, I know "how" to shoot with the HD1/HD10 and have zero interest in 24p -- so the light weight, small size, and one-touch AF are real advantages to me.

In fact, I'm re-writing my HD1/HD10 Shooting Guide -- included with the GY-HD100 HANDBBOK -- because I believe these now very low-cost camcorders can serve as a low-cost way entry into 720P HD.

They are perfect for student filmmakers who know they will not be converting video to film -- yet want a low temporal-rate PROGRESSIVE look.

Discounted JVC GR-PD1 -less than 1/2 price!

http://www.askdirect.co.uk/uview?call=ask.productSearch&id=2345&topcatid=10

Grazie

"....the light weight, small size, and one-touch AF are real advantages to me.
.... because I believe these now very low-cost camcorders can serve as a low-cost way entry into 720P HD...."

I agree 100% with this comment. The low cost of little-used 2nd-hand units, plus their small size, put these cameras into quite a unique market sector for the next 6-12 months at least.

"...put these cameras into quite a unique market sector for the next 6-12 months at least.

Even if we see a new low-cost version at CEA next week -- it may be the same camera but only a change to an 80GB harddisk. I'm not sure it would be worth spending money to simply replace MiniDV tape, which I can buy anywhere.

I just wish all those who have dumped on these little cameras for 2 years and rave about the Sony's really could compare color reproduction. I just keep being blown away how my video of India match the real color present here. I've been shooting here for over 20 years -- starting with film -- and the JVC is the only video camera I've owned that captures reds, yellows, and browns like film does.

I for one hope this forum is not moved anywhere since these are still HDV cameras and therefore up to date with the most recent technology.

Having said that I can't really say I prefer the footage I've seen from the HD1 to that of the Sony HDV cams, FX1 and HC1. Sure, the JVC is true progressive but you can also obtain similar results on post with HC1 footage and you probably get less chroma noise and the ability to go 24p or 30p (fake, admitedly, but still an option).

Could you post some of that India footage you shot? Here's a couple of shots from HD1 clips I made after post. I'm very happy with them indeed but if given the choice of rebuying the camera today I'd most likely go for the HC1 instead... :)

http://www.geocities.com/headlesspuppy/stuff/hdvsd.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/headlesspuppy/stuff/hdvseaworld.jpg

This is the low down apparently, the JVC-HD1 HAS been superseded but...wait for it....the HD10! well thats what shops are telling me anyways, but I would probably wait til next week from CES to get a clearer picture.
I would still by this over a deck though because I would use this as a b-cam and use my hd100 as the main cam, and plus use this to capture! see more than one simple use for this camera!

haha sorry for screwing up the last post, the HD1 has been superseded but to replace that model is the HD10

Could you post some of that India footage you shot?

After New Year's I'm going to capture the footage from Malaysia and India. I''ll ask Chris if he can host a few JPEGs as I won't be back in the USA until the end of Jan.

Hi,

I have to agree with Steve Mullen.

>> I've been shooting here for over 20 years -- starting with film -- and the JVC >> is the only video camera I've owned that captures reds, yellows, and browns >> like film does.

Under overcast daylight conditions outdoors, I felt like the HD10 recorded colors that reminded me of the results we got shooting 16mm film years ago. I like the look and we used the camera for TV commercials, music videos and a DVD documentary.

Ed Hill
HighlyDef Productions, LLC
Atlanta, GA

Well most of us here feel these little cams got an undeserved bad rap. "I heard that cam is crap, is there anywhere I can see some footage", is unfortunately the most common responce I get.
On the other side of the argument, what JVC did to the controls on this cam did nothing to help it gain acceptance. With no way to manually set 1/60 shutter with exposure control, JVC doomed many a user much un-needed frustration. Although they did provide a "Sports mode" that locked the shutter at 1/250th? for this light starved cam, yet the benefits of 1/60th seem to have been lost on the makers. Although these control deficiencies have forced me to elevate my understanding of lighting/filters, so it is not all bad. I often do feel like a JVC lab rat for HDV, being they have done little to nothing to support these cams with any form of firmware or a decent manual in the first place, and now with the HD100 and ProHD have completely abandoned these older cams and users. Thank God people like Steve Mullen took the time to figure things out and produce a user guide.

Steve- "In fact, I'm re-writing my HD1/HD10 Shooting Guide "

Good to hear. Will it contain any new insights/info, or is it just a re-issue?

Good to hear. Will it contain any new insights/info, or is it just a re-issue?

Amazingly, when I first wrote it I was trying to prevent ALL POSSIBLE problems which made it needelessly complex.

Now that I trust it, I've simplfied it a lot.

Also I was being defensive, Now that we know Sony's CMOS problems and CF24 mode and the HD100 SSE problems, I realize all low-cost HD camcorders will not be perfect.

I heard a while ago that the HD1 had stopped and the HD10 was staying in production, around the time the HD100/HC1 came out. HD1's were being advertised at around $1595 on camcorderinfo before that time.

Even if we see a new low-cost version at CEA next week -- it may be the same camera but only a change to an 80GB harddisk. I'm not sure it would be worth spending money to simply replace MiniDV tape, which I can buy anywhere.

I just wish all those who have dumped on these little cameras for 2 years and rave about the Sony's really could compare color reproduction. I just keep being blown away how my video of India match the real color present here. I've been shooting here for over 20 years -- starting with film -- and the JVC is the only video camera I've owned that captures reds, yellows, and browns like film does.

Yes, Steve, how is that Hard disk Everio HD going? I've noticed people getting information, or to see, JVC cameras in advanced, have you heard anybody talking?

Re-edit, post about camera coming soon:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=401028#post401028

About India, could it be a yellow, orange, red bias in the camera?

I hope they dump those chips though, and replace them with something many times better in low light and latitude. Altasens have a small 720p chip (1/3rd or 1/2inch) that might be better. It seems that HD1 has nothing to offer over the HC1 except progressive footage, I hope they change that.

JVC, if you are listening, please, sensors as good as an Altasen's on all cameras, beat the HC1!

I wonder if this board's days are numbered. When should it head to the DV Info Net Archive?

Steve, I think there will be a need for this forum for years. It would have been good if it had been put into a forum with the HD100. But we could make it a forum for all JVC HD cameras, apart from the HD100 instead, that would keep things rolling.

Steve,
When do you anticipate the HD1 manual rewrite to be available?
I love my HD1 but really need help to get the most out of it.
I am a total novice, but Love the results I get from my Camera purely by accident. I would love to be able to have an idea of what I am doing so that I could consistently reproduce the great results I get sporadically.

Thanks
Brian M Walker

I went over to JVC.com to check stuff out--saw the HD1 (http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD1206000&pathId=29) on the consumer side, but the HD10 isn't mentioned on the pro side. I think it's gone--and this is before I came across this thread.

heath

Hi,

I saw the HD1 at Frye's in Atlanta (Pleasant Hill Rd at I-85) last night.
They also carry the Sony FX1, Panasonic GS400 (3 chip SD),
and Sony 2100 (prosumer 3 chip version of PD 170).

Also went by Showcase video on Cheshire Bridge Rd in Atlanta. It's a good local shop, but prices for the cameras tend to be a bit higher than we might expect.
HD-10 $ 3000
HD-100 $ 5900

They also cary the Panasonic P2
Sony Z1
Sony FX-1

It's one of the few places in Atlanta I can lay hands on the various cameras for comparison.

I would probably buy something there like lowell lite pieces or tape if I had to have it today and didn't mind paying a little extra.

Oops. Sorry. My point was that even though the HD10 may be discontinued, some shops like Showcase Video may have 1 last HD10 to sell. And, as of Jan 15 some electronics stores have some GR1 HDV cameras available.

The JVC HD100 becomes the obvious choice for paying work, so I guess JVC feels they don't need the HD10. While the GR1 becomes a great consumer HDV camera.

I have a feeling the HD1 will still be for sale via JVC's consumer branch, but when I looked at the pro site, the HD10 is gone. And good riddance (sorry for the op ed there). I know we've all gotten some great video, but the Z1 and HD100 proved that newer pro cameras were better.

heath

I agree, Heath. The HD10U didn't really add all that much to the HD1 anyway, just the toning down of the edge enhancement stuff, but even then the HD1 can be tweaked to get the same thing, the HD10U just simplified things. I also heard the XLR's were wonky too. Don't think that I wouldn't get an HD10U if I had the chance, I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it were less than or equal to $1,000. The HD1, in my opinion, isn't worth that much now, they should lower it to about the $500-$800 range based on the competition from Sanyo, Sony, and (STB?) Samsung.

I wasn't aware that the (nasty) edge enhancement in the HD1 could be tweaked - is that really so??

Tweaked to take it down? I didn't know that either.

The audio going into the unbalanced jack from the XLR adaptor created a "canned" sound. JVC later fixed it but I forgot to send it in. My HD10 is about to go away (I mistakenly leased it--knowingly, of course, but it was a mistake) and I barely use it. When I try to print to tape in HD or DV, something happens going into the firewire/iLink port that creates little digital crackles in video and sound (sparks).

Having said that, I shot a movie (www.releasememovie.com) that was in 5 film festivals and I made back a lot, but not all, of my investment. But I'll avoid using it again and I won't lease a low-end camera like that, either.

Lastly, the HD10 and HD1 was probably put out a little too soon, but it revolutionized us, the lower-budget videographers and filmmakers. To that, JVC deserves a toast. And the HD100 is SO MUCH better.

heath

The poor HD10 can't even get its props even on its good-bye wave. Sad

The HD-1 cannot be tweaked to lower EE unless tweak=firmware hack. One guy hacked his PD-1 but a mainstream mod was never realized.

Heath -"I know we've all gotten some great video, but the Z1 and HD100 proved that newer pro cameras were better."

"And the HD100 is SO MUCH better."

Yes they are Heath, but at double the price. It was, and still is the lowest cost progressive HD solution. It provides an amazing film like image for those who learned to shoot with it properly (proper lighting, no run'n'gun) it should be considered a steal what one of these cams can be had for used or discounted $. For an aspiring filmaker who understands HD is in full swing and wants to learn/get on board, understands the benefits of progressive shooting, the cams are still a great option.

For around $300 more than I paid for my HD10, I could've bought an FX1, but that's life. I salute the HD10 for helping me get into five film festivals (and my outstanding DP/crew, etc.) and pushing HD into the hands of people like us, the non-millionaires. (grin)

heath

Sure, but when you bought the HD-10 the FX-1 was not on the market yet, right? Once the FX-1 hit, the HD-10 could be found for a competetive price. These two cams bring two completely different "looks" to the table, so to suggest the FX-1 is vastly superior (only $300 more) is a little misguided.

Ken,

Of course, but I had to be an early adopter.

And as for superior, yes, after extensive use with the FX1 and the Z1, the Sony cameras are superior, in my opinon, to the HD10. Now, the HD100 is definitely superior to the HD10 as well, but a great deal of patience and skill can produce good results.

heath

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=16670
http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/video/

Ah yes, I'm familiar with those threads. But given that the discussion on them ground to a halt in mid-air, without any clear resolution, I didn't make the connection between them and the earlier comment that edge enhancement on the HD1 can be tweaked.

I'd say that what those threads describe is "a headlong plunge into a black pit of reverse-engineering hell" rather than a "tweak"! ;)

Broadly, a similar process should apply to the HD1, so not really difficult as many of the other things attempted in alternative imaging.

It would be nice if a tweak was found but the tweaks your mentioning are more of a mod, not really as simple as getting into an advanced menu (I wish). So if it seems simple to you then let us know when you've got it working.

I think JVC should drop an easter egg for that secret menu ;>)

Ken,

Good point. The HD10 was a great learning tool. Ben Buie and I made some money while learning about HD lighting and editing work-flow. The HD10 made it possible to make the On Our Way Up docudrama, some commercials and some music videos. Along the way I think my lighting, camera-handling and directing skills really improved. For a while, it was the first and only HD option for under $50K.

Now, several rental houses here in Atlanta and elsewhere have FX1 and HD100 rental cameras available. Atlanta freelancer Porter Versafelt has used his FX1 for shoots for Johnson and Johnson (corporate stuff) and shooting Cannes Film Festival for E! television.

If the marketing/engineering decision makers at JVC had put FULL manual shutter / aperture control on the HD10 and solved that canned audio sound, we would have been happier with it. But even with all the flaws we discovered and worked around with the HD10, the camera still proved the commercial demand for HD, and gave many of us our first HD pieces on our demo reels.

My biggest discovery was that paying clients don't care whether you shoot HD or SD, as long as the final product meets their needs and looks good. So we started shooting everyhing we could with the HD10. That HD10 camera made HD doable, even for lower budget client projects at $3000 to $5000, even if the output was letterboxed SD in 2 cases. Porter says he's using the FX1 for both SD or HD. But the way he looks at it, since the FX1 can record as HDV, DV and DVCAM formats, he now owns 1 camera that can do many different format projects. This reduces his need to rent cameras.

Yes, I would love to get my hands on an FX1 or HD100. With 3 chips, total manual control available and dedicated buttons for functions, instead of those tedious menus, the newer cameras have solved the problems inherent to the HD10. But lets give credit to the HD10 for getting us and many other filmmakers started in HiDef.

I purchased "On Our Way Up," the 720p version and enjoyed it.

But commenting on the HD10 itself, the movie was a watershed because I felt the reduced EE in the video was more than worth the money I saved by getting the lower end HD1.

I decided not to repeat that mistake when I came around to the Sony. In spending the extra coin for the ZX1 over the FX1, while not disappointed, it's not the bargain the HD10 is either.

But that said, of all the criticism heaped upon the HD1, the one that ultimately had the worst impact for me was my inability to get steady hand-held shots from the OIS. It looks very very good when shot with a tripod with the appropriate filters and techniques discussed here many times. The Sony is not the holy grail either although it is rich if you like native 60i. It's a fair size bigger than my HD1 but I don't need to carry the tripod.

If the marketing/engineering decision makers at JVC had put FULL manual shutter / aperture control on the HD10 and solved that canned audio sound, we would have been happier with it.

Both were easily solved. A Beachtek box bypassed the JVC XLR box. Or, a direct 1/8-inch connection as used with the HD1.

There was never any need for full Manual Control. That was a myth. I've been using an HD100:

1) With the HD100 you set shutter-speed as appropriate for 24fps or 30fps. With the HD1/HD10 the shutter-speed should be 1/30th. You will almost never change the shutter-speed on either.

2) With the HD100 you then engage the correct ND filter. With the HD1/HD10 you screw-on the appropriate ND filter.

3) With the HD100 you adjust the aperature. With the HD1/HD10 you adjust the exposure control.

You work the same way with both. In fact, with both you even limit gain to +6dB.

Of course, using ND filters stopped the auto control on the HD10, but knowing that without ND, I could only control only shutter or iris, not both. That wasn't a professional camera. BUT, we've gotten some wonderful footage with it, and I believe Ben Buie and Ed Hill proved that over and over.

heath

I hear what you saying Steve. I have almost found the best way to work the cam in any situation. That said, most will want the cam in 1/60th, where as the cam almost insists in being at 1/30th when in HD mode, like you say. So then the option becomes locking at 1/60th and applying ND untill the exposure will no longer "pump", this of course drops the cam out of ideal exposure, but usually not by much. In other situations with ample light you can sometimes take a reading at 1/60 and ND down then lock exposure, but that can be flakey as you need a lot of light (esp. indoor) or it will go to 1/30th. Of course there are many variations to this but a simple firmware update where the Sports modes 1/250th preset could have been switched for the far more practical 1/60th. Unfortunately this most simple of requests fell on deaf ears at JVC. I mean seriously you give a cam with poor low light capability a 1/250th lock? But not 1/60th? Come on! The engineers really did need a kick in the @#$s.
I use it mostly as a studio cam which makes its limitations easier to work with.

On the flip side, I have found the 480p60 mode to be highly underated. For one it likes to always revert to 1/60th unlike the 1/30th of HD mode. It has far, far more detail then the DV mode and in fact comes very close to the detail level of the HD mode. It has a good stop or more light sensitivity over the HD mode. It is always 60p which enables easy conversion to 24p or nice slow-mo's from everything you shoot.

Steve-"You work the same way with both. In fact, with both you even limit gain to +6dB."

How do you manage that. The option is AGC. Is that a set +6dB? You recommend always leaving it on? Or are you refering to always shooting below a certail F-stop?

3) With the HD100 you adjust the aperature. With the HD1/HD10 you adjust the exposure control.


But when you use the automatic exposure button the shutter lock is disabled. In other words you can't use the aperture/shutter settings while working with the AE.

I haven't tried Ken's suggestion of lock the shutter at 1/250th using the sports mode and then using the AE to set the aperture - it might work but you still don't know which aperture you're using.

If you press the S/A button in rapid fashion you can cycle through the settings and check what the F-stop is. If you pause and wait on a particular setting (over one second) it will it select it, putting you into priority mode for that function. So if your shutter is locked and you want to check the F-stop, cycle through and see what it is. Do not stop on F-stop or you will loose your shutter lock. Understand? You can always check what you F-stop is. It isn't perfect but it works. In the same vein you can see what you shutter speed is when in Exposure Lock mode. Just don't stop on it or you will loose your shutter lock.

Yes, yes. I knew about this but forgot! It's true, you can check what shutter speed it is in and same with aperture but you can't really lock both of them at the same time. I will try to do the sports mode + AE thing to see if it works but I think the only way to have control of both settings would be to choose one and lock the camera on it and then use ND filters to control the other, but that's hardly has versatile and fast as messing with full manual controls.

True, it is not a run and gun cam. But if your a filmaker in the classic sense where most all shots are locked down and composed, it works well. Very well infact.
The point is, depending on light levels (straight through or ND filter reduced) the cam will settle on a shutter speed. Then you just have to adjust and lock the shutter. If it is more of a movement shot it can be better to lock the shutter (esp. if you want 1/60th) and let the auto exposure do its thing or reduce the light with ND's untill the exposure no longer pumps.
But alas I agree if they just offered the simple ability to lock the shutter at 1/60th (instead of only at 1/250th in Sports preset) they would have maintained a much bigger fan base for the cam and hence the HD100 that followed. A pissed custommer never comes back. Just ask Heath!
I still pray that someone will hack the firmware and offer a version that switches the 1/250th Sports mode to 1/60th. If they find away to drop EE on the HD1 as well, indi filmakers would scoop them up of ebay.

True, it is not a run and gun cam. But if your a filmaker in the classic sense where most all shots are locked down and composed, it works well. Very well infact.
The point is, depending on light levels (straight through or ND filter reduced) the cam will settle on a shutter speed. Then you just have to adjust and lock the shutter. If it is more of a movement shot it can be better to lock the shutter (esp. if you want 1/60th) and let the auto exposure do its thing or reduce the light with ND's untill the exposure no longer pumps.
But alas I agree if they just offered the simple ability to lock the shutter at 1/60th (instead of only at 1/250th in Sports preset) they would have maintained a much bigger fan base for the cam and hence the HD100 that followed. A pissed custommer never comes back. Just ask Heath!
I still pray that someone will hack the firmware and offer a version that switches the 1/250th Sports mode to 1/60th usefull mode.

If anyone has any tricks/solutions to maximizing shooting with these cams, I highly encourage you to speak up. This forum especially, considering the agressive nature of the early days of the forum where these little cams took the blunt of all those who hated HDV, could use a little community. If you have found something that has given you great results please share.
Thanks

What Ken just said ... and also, someone mentioned dealing with the HD1's EE in post. I'd be interested to hear more about that.