I understand that the output of the HD100u is 60p... now how do you capture that and have it as a 60p file and drop it into a 24p project on premiere pro 1.5?

to my knowledge when you want real slomo you need more frames... (60 and up for ok results) I have been shooting for a while now, and editing lots and lots... but I never really had to use "smooth" slow motion before, for some reason the films I shoot never really call for it in the script. i usually just cheated by taking the speed of the file and slowing it down by 40%. Now every one knows that in premiere pro, that’s pretty much as slow as you can go with decent results ( but its still not smooth real slow motion). I am shooting my first "nice size" budget ($50,000) indie film with lots and lots of work ahead of me...

I want to know how i can capture the 60p out of the HD100u using the firewire out (if that’s even possible) ... Then I would like to know how do i take that 60p footage and bring it into a 24p project in premiere pro 1.5...

And last but not least, once the 60p file is in the 24p workspace (if that’s even possible) does it play at 24p and turn into a slomo shot with no extra work needed?

THANKS SO MUCH!

You can easily shoot 60fps (technically 59.94fps) or 50fps in SD mode (HDV-SD60 or HDV-SD50 mode setting respectfully) and then digitize it via firewire and conform it back to 23.98. (On a Mac use Cinema Tools - others can point you to a PC solution.)
However, you will only have 480 lines of resolution in SD60 mode.

It is possible to digitize "live" HD at 60fps using the analog component out and a HD capture card or device (like Wafian.) The camera must be in 720P30 mode to get the 720P60 live output. I tested this the other day with a Blackmagic Decklink and Multibridge and it worked very well.
48fps also worked when the camera was in 720P24 mode, but there is a pulldown to be removed. (1:1:1:2)

"48fps also worked when the camera was in 720P24 mode, but there is a pulldown to be removed. (1:1:1:2)" [from Tim]

I should have said that I needed the footage to be in 720p...now I knew about the component option, I just wanted to avoid buying another capture card just for that 60p (other card is in use) BUT...

the 48p would actually do fine for me! I completely forgot I can do that in HD So my next question is can that done out of the firewire port? and will the pulldown be done during the "capture" or will I have to apply that with a program?

No HD possible faster than 30fps through the firewire port.

What you're looking for is only currently available on the Panasonic HVX200 (to P2 or Firestore,) Varicam or the forthcoming 2/3" JVC HD7000. The 7000 will use a higher bitrate (faster tape speed) to capture and record 720P60 onto miniDV tape.

You should try uprezzing 480P60 or 576P50 to 720P and see how it looks for the odd slo-mo shot.

There are also some software solutions that smooth out slomo in post-production from 24P or 30P sources and render "in-between" frames. One example is Twixtor - but it is very render intensive and has a bit of a learning curve.

Thanks so much, I guess I might have to get that capture card to really do what I want to do. And thanks so much for all the info, im not at all new to the dv world, but pretty new to the HDV world so all this really helps alot.

wow i check out the specs that JVC is aiming for with the hd7000... seems impressive as usual... do you happen to know when they are expecting it to be available to the public? if its within the next 8 months i might just get that instead of the hd100u

(edit) i just noticed that someone on another site said that the hd7000's price would be around $27,000 i guess nevermind the hd7000 unless that price was a mistake.

I just noticed that someone on another site said that the hd7000's price would be around $27,000 i guess nevermind the hd7000 unless that price was a mistake.

That sounds about right - without the lens! It will still be tens of thousands less expensive than its closest competitor, the Panasonic Varicam.

You could always rent a Super-16 camera for HiDef Slo-mo!

nuts! i guess nevermind that, i have faith that the hd100 will hold up fine if i do my homework. also this question is to you Tim.... i have it on another thread but the link is here... http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=394630#post394630 its the last post with my name on it... i hope you have some input on this issue.

and thanks soo soo much for all your input!

For HD100 slow motion check out the slowmotion clip on the IndieFilmLive blog : http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/2005/12/new-slowmotion-capture-explained.html. This was done from a stock HD100 camera capture 60p into Prospect HD using a Xena HS card (via an AJA HD10A adaptor.)

thanks reading now ! ( it looks like I am going to buy another capture card for the hd slo-mo)

thanks reading now ! ( it looks like I am going to buy another capture card for the hd slo-mo)

Just be sure to remember that, on the JVC, the uncompressed output is analog, so if you're using an SDI-HD capture card to get the signal into your edit system, you'll need to do an A/D conversion first.

Miranda makes a box called the HD Bridge (about $2k) that does exactly this. I haven't tried it myself, but my contact at JVC told me it's what they used for their demos, so I'm assuming it works very well.

Hope this helps.

A

How smoth would a slow-motion get if captured at 24P or 30P, but with a higher shuttle speed than 1/48, 1/60? Lets say, 1/100 or faster for insatance... that way no cards/conversions, more money put into the project.

Luis Otero

High shutter speeds will typically reduce the motion smoothness. The only way to get a good slow motion is higher frame rate, not higher shutter speed.

What about using "Motion Perfect" from Dynapel to duplicate the frame rate? I have used it and it works fine for me and for my clients...

Luis Otero

If that works you, but I don't understand what you are trying to achieve. You can only interpolate so much before it looks like a blurred image. Again check out the slowmo with real 60fps at http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/2005/12/new-slowmotion-capture-explained.html, this can't be emulated.

David,

To answer you underlying question: just trying to look for different, attainable, less expensive way to do this craft. I think this is the beauty of this type of discussions and the main foucus of this forum: somebody post a question, many more add their opinions and inputs, and sometimes, just sometimes, a very inexpensive, simple out of the blue solution works for everybody without spending tons of money so we can be more competitive in our business.

I think there are many more like me in this forum that are trying very hard to continue to be in this business because we love it, and to feel like we can somehow add value to the discussion without talking about buying extra equipment that cost THOUSAND of dollars, and at the same time stimulate the search of using different ways to achieve as close as possible what others can only do because they have unlimited resource.

Hopefully that will help to explain what I am trying to achieve...

Respectfully,

Luis Otero

BTW: in the blog you talk about a capture interface. Is this in Prospect HD only, or can I find it in Aspect HD? I just cannot find it...

I only asked because the thread is titled "Real Slomo With The HD100U...", but off course low costs alternatives make prefect sense.

The control panel on the blog is within Prospect HD as this is a real-time HD-SDI capture interface.

See for my budget/needs its really one shot that NEEDS to be smooth slo-mo... I think I’m actually going to try and borrow a capture card from others so I don’t have to spend $4,000 for one shot. Tricky thing is I will probably have to steal their computer along with it :-P

... if you want very smooth slo-mo it seems that we are getting close but not there yet without having to spend the same money it would be to rent an arri high speed camera for a day and have it processed.

I am already shooting in grand central station, which is a killer amount of money in insurance premiums (I need $4,000,000 coverage everyday)
It just so happens that, it is the day/s that we are shooting slo-mo shots... so tacking on another few thousand dollars for this one shot is really overkill on our budget... but if you have the money I say spend on an arri high-speed at this point you will end up get some killer ass frame rates that you can never do with spending 2k on a capture card 2k on converters and extra time on tweaking the image for it to be perfect and still only getting 60fps

Bottom line is this, I am going to use the hd100u and capture at 60fps... if you don’t have thousands to spend on these slo-mo shots, then yes do the trick with software, it will get you to where you can like your outcome. But if you need it to be perfect and smooth and be picky about it, you are probably going to rip your hair out in the end haha that’s my opinion anyway.

I would like to say thanks for all you who have really put some great input on this matter, and I hope that this will also help others who read this as well... and if anyone has questions about anything slo-mo I’m up for seeing what I can come up with... I will probably do a slo-mo test when its time to do so. I will gladly post/send you my test footage to help anyone else with their decisions on how to do it with the hd100

It is possible to digitize "live" HD at 60fps using the analog component out and a HD capture card or device (like Wafian.) The camera must be in 720P30 mode to get the 720P60 live output.

Sorry to bring all this back to the surface... but I could not find anything in the JVC book about going out the analog component at 720P60. How did you figure this out? Am I missing a page or something? ;)

What I think is happening is this... The camera in HD mode is always putting out 60p from the component out ( bypassing the mpeg2 compression) , so you can grab the 60p with the method everyones talking about with capture cards.

What I think is happening is this... The camera in HD mode is always putting out 60p from the component out ( bypassing the mpeg2 compression) , so you can grab the 60p with the method everyones talking about with capture cards.
That is true when in 720P30 mode.
In 720P24 mode, the output is 720P48 pulled down into the 720P60.
In 720P25 mode, the output is 720P50.

Maybe David Newman can confirm this? Cineform have done all of the real testing in this area.

Yeah Tim that sounds about right, that’s the way it was explained to me actually...

Now I know the output is an analog output, right? So when using a capture card like the AJA, does that need a digital signal out from the camera to capture the 60p or am not really making any sense at all... (Slightly confused* haha)

Yep. It's analog YRB.