This is VERY VERY worrying... Specially on the dv50 file... SO, basically, if I render a clip with effects for 10x, it gets white???? No , thank you!

The dvcprohd didn't show much trouble, tough.

So there really is a generational loss if you apply Effects and transitions to a clip in FCP. I always felt that, after applying and effect on a certain clip, it got worse (not very noticeable, but you could see a slight difference in quality).
Any way to get over this? Will deleting the preview files save us from this generational loss? How to avoid it without having to recapture everything? Not using uncompressed, of course...

There should be NO reason that anyone goes through 10 freakin generations of compression. It's just to test degradation in general.

Never use any of these compression formats any more than you have to.

I advise using the native codec while editing, color correction, maybe some compositing, only. Then for your finished master, use Uncompressed 10-bit . Then use that to encode or output to whatever your final distribution format is.

Do this by changing the compressor setting under Sequence Settings (Command-0). Very nice workflow.

I would start using Uncompressed instead of the native codec if I was doing green/blue screen key work, but I'd do that in After Effects on uncompressed exported clips from FCP anyway. Other special effects work, I would also do in Uncompressed. If the project looks like most of it is of this type, and not barebones FCP work on the original DVCPRO/DVCPROHD files, I would probably switch the entire project over to Uncompressed to work through it.

It can be argued that eventually you will have to compress your footage again, whether it's printing to DVCPRO50, DVCPROHD, HDCAM, Mpeg2, H.264, WMV, etc. But at least it's only twice compressed. Once when you shot it, and once you deliver it. If it's going to broadcast, it'll get compressed yet a third time, and we'll never be too impressed with it at that point, compared to what we saw in our master.

FCP is a great tool, but it still has some codec issues as far as rendering DVCPRO HD goes.

http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/

"render with caution"


Uhhh... are you aware that site hasnt been updated in 17 months?



ash =o)

There should be NO reason that anyone goes through 10 freakin generations of compression. It's just to test degradation in general.

Never use any of these compression formats any more than you have to.

I advise using the native codec while editing, color correction, maybe some compositing, only. Then for your finished master, use Uncompressed 10-bit . Then use that to encode or output to whatever your final distribution format is.

Do this by changing the compressor setting under Sequence Settings (Command-0). Very nice workflow.

I would start using Uncompressed instead of the native codec if I was doing green/blue screen key work, but I'd do that in After Effects on uncompressed exported clips from FCP anyway. Other special effects work, I would also do in Uncompressed. If the project looks like most of it is of this type, and not barebones FCP work on the original DVCPRO/DVCPROHD files, I would probably switch the entire project over to Uncompressed to work through it.

It can be argued that eventually you will have to compress your footage again, whether it's printing to DVCPRO50, DVCPROHD, HDCAM, Mpeg2, H.264, WMV, etc. But at least it's only twice compressed. Once when you shot it, and once you deliver it. If it's going to broadcast, it'll get compressed yet a third time, and we'll never be too impressed with it at that point, compared to what we saw in our master.

Thanks for the suggested workflow. Much appreciated.

Has anyone tried the Edius Demo from Canopus? I cant get it to even run.

If the problem continues, why not ask over at the Canopus Edius forum?
http://forum.canopus.com/
You will need to register to do that.

Canopus just announced "Edius Broadcast" for 1k or 500 bucks upgrade from Edius 3 which has support for Panasonic DVCPRO 50 and DVCPRO HD,
Panasonic DVCPRO P2,Panasonic VariCam,Sony XDCAM,Windows Media(HD)...along with all other formats(DV,Mpeg etc) on the same timeline...and that is running OHCI without a hardware card...take a look http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSBroadcast/index.php

The package is Edius 3.0 NLE plus all the plugins and codec options bundled together. Also 4.0 is coming and all of the features mentioned lacking here are being addressed....like better keyframe control of effects. 4.0 will be a big jump for Edius which isn't to shabby right now.

Canopus just announced "Edius Broadcast" for 1k or 500 bucks upgrade from Edius 3 which has support for Panasonic DVCPRO 50 and DVCPRO HD

Edius Broadcast is available to order now through authorized dealers. I downloaded the Edius Pro demo today and will give it a test drive tomorrow. From what I've read/seen thus far, it looks promising and probably a better solution than Avid for me. Avid's Liquid Pro is more of a "prosumer" solution and it doesn't directly support DVCPro (just HDV at the moment) and to go to Avid's Xpress Studio HD, it's more than double the cost of Edius Broadcast. So far, my only concerns are the audio capabilities. This is where I really wish I could hold onto Vegas. But for $1K or thereabouts, Edius may be the solution of choice, even if it's an interim one until Vegas or Premiere catch up with DVCPRO.

So far, my only concerns are the audio capabilities. This is where I really wish I could hold onto Vegas. But for $1K or thereabouts, Edius may be the solution of choice, even if it's an interim one until Vegas or Premiere catch up with DVCPRO.
It is a valid concern but we do audio in an app like Audition or SoundForge. The lack of audio tools has its roots in the fact that Edius is designed with RT full frame full resolution output to external monitor as an overiding goal. To do that audio/video synch via the hardware cards holds them back from allowing you to play too much with the audio.Also VSts work with Edius. There has been some talk of an ability to work with proTools and that would solve it but for now the audio is indeed lacking.

Canopus just announced "Edius Broadcast" for 1k or 500 bucks upgrade from Edius 3 which has support for Panasonic DVCPRO 50 and DVCPRO HD...

Thanks Randy! I hadn't seen this concise a summary of what Edius Broadcast does or what the pricing was. Guess now I know what I need to put on my shopping list for next year.

Uhhh... are you aware that site hasnt been updated in 17 months?


Well, you learn something new everyday! I found the site (which is still linked to) via Mike Curtis' hdforindies.com blog. All I can tell you is my own experiences with DVCPROHD are mixed. It's a great codec for editing, mostly just because it's intraframe, but people talking about how well it'll hold up for color correction are maybe a tad off. I think it has the same issues as regular DV, but the heavier compression might be masked a bit due to the higher resolution frames and 4.2.2

The poster who said the workflow should be edit in DVCPRO and rerender a final sequence in 10 bit uncompressed is spot on...provided you have the RAID to deal with it.

When there's time, I'll post a few frames from a film I've worked on, and show you where the codec goes to hell.

There is a lot out there on DVCPro HD and the pros and cons....it is a great editing format and far supieror to .m2t(HDV) as an aqusition format but the biggest drawback is the luma sampling is 1280...HDCAM and Canopus HQ are both 1440 but the trade off is DVCPro is 100Mbps and HDCAM is 140Mbps with HQ averaging close to 120-140 since it is variable. HQ does give you Chroma sub-sampling at 720....DVCPro is 640 and HDCAM is 480. You do need a horse of a macine to edit HQ(which is also intraframe) and you have to convert so it is all about trade-offs. Bottom line IMHO to be able to aquire DVCPRO HD for 10k with P2s or Firestores is incredible and a big step in the right direction for people who can't afford Varicam...nobody I know can.

Rumors abound that Premiere Pro 2.0 will have support. Haven't heard any encouraging rumors about Vegas yet.

Really? Do we know when to expect Premiere Pro 2?

I am in the position of really, really wanting that camera but not wanting to purchase a whole new editing platform with which to make use of it...

Barry can you comment on this???

I am a PC and MAC guy who just did a feature doc in premiere pro... I just upgraded to a Quad G5 FCP system, it is just more solid and standard for HD and the industry in general. Not better... just more standard.

Barry, those numbers cannot be correct... On a quad G5 with a FIBRE RAID, I can get MAX 6-8 streams in 720/24p... most the time I get 4-6 with 1080/60. When using a LaCie serial raid we got 3-5 streams MAX. That is all numbers for DVCproHD which is 8-bit. The key seems to be HDD speed, moreso than processor speed.



ash =o)

Really? Do we know when to expect Premiere Pro 2?
Nobody who actually knows anything is talking, so it's all just rumor and speculation. Premiere Pro 1.5 was introduced almost two years ago at NAB (or shortly thereafter) in April 2004, so it would seem that expecting an update at NAB this year wouldn't be out of line. But that is absolute 100% unsubstantiated speculation.

Barry can you comment on this???
I am reporting what I (believe I) heard from the Apple rep at DV Expo. Obviously I could have gotten it wrong, but I am almost 100% sure that I heard six streams on a powerbook, 11 streams on a desktop. Maybe the bit about six streams "on the internal drive" is crazy, maybe it was referring to external storage, I don't know.

I am not (yet) a Mac user, so I don't have anything to add to this, I'm just relaying what I was told at the Apple demo at DV Expo.