Over the past 2 decades I've had a handful of great near-fields, from Blue Sky, JBL, Focal and others. And while I'm in the process of rebuilding the biz post-covid I've decided to make a more serious investment in my audio environment, specifically the monitor pair.

Because of the content I produce the audio portion isn't an afterthought, it's a primary concern. The sound-bed of music, VO, EFX... it's all part of the landscape in telling the story and helping the viewer really enjoy the presentation - whatever it is.

So important is the audio to me that I'll almost always create a storyboard around the music FIRST, then create the visuals based on the emotion and energy of the music. Yep, it's a backwards process for most, but that style is what has always set me apart from other producers and made my stuff more dramatic and interesting to watch.

I've got 2 schools of thought on the monitor situation:

1. Get another set of near-fields - albeit at a higher price point than what I've had previously. They're purpose-built for editing and flat-accurate (or as much as the brands claim to be). I've no hesitation about this.

BUT...

2. What I'm considering is instead of near-fields is a high-quality pair of loudspeakers, also designed to be dead-on accurate but, with purposeful coloring. Obviously. And they'd be connected to a high-current, Class-A/B amp to get as much clean, powerful signal as the budget will allow. No, not McIntosh, that's still way beyond reason.

So here's what I've selected as possibilities for both options, and I'd like your feedback. Ha, no pun intended:

Near-fields:

- HEDD Type 07 MK2 Series

- Adam S2V 7"

- Adam A8H 8"


For the "hi-fi" option:

- Bowers & Wilkins 706 S3

- NAD C 3050 integrated amp

- Panamax MR4300 line conditioner

- The best pair of oxygen-free, large-scale copper wiring from amp to B&W's.

If you don't know anything about these units, don't chime in just for the heck of it. I want the audio pros to respond with either relevant experience or, advice based on both concepts.

I've been around long enough to know the difference between loudspeakers and near-fields, but my gut tells me that based on how I mix things the hi-fi option might be a logical, out-of-the-box thinking option. Maybe not, that's why I'm posting the question.

Fire away...

Hi Robert, you haven’t pictured your control room, the size etc. and what speakers do you actually use now?

Over the years I’ve had 16” Tannoys with Bryston amps. 12” JBLs down to 6” Auratones. You’re not recording big classical orchestras, I think it’s horses for courses so I’m proposing near fields. I’m an ADAM speaker fan, I still have my original A7s.

I’d be looking at the ADAM S2V 7” they’re active so you don’t have to include an extra amp, there’s ’room adaption’ control on the rear and they’re bit smaller than the A8Hs. You might be able to take your best sounding track down to the shop and audition it on those speakers.

Cheers.

I'm not using any monitors now. After covid shutdown my production company (TV commercials) I'm just now in the process of rebuilding, ground-up.

I've converted my dining room into my new edit suite which surprisingly is very "dead" with nearly zero reflections anywhere and a neutral sonic environment.

So I'm starting with the audio monitors, going to upgrade the ancient 2013 iMac into a Mac Studio M2 and next will be camera/lenses/location audio etc.

On the nearfield side I've been leaning towards the HEDD units because they're amazingly tunable for the environment:

https://hedd.audio/products/type-07-mk2

Unfortunately there's nobody in my area to demo them, I'd have to travel to California (which might be a good excuse to get a mini-vacation in before the holidays) but other than the controls they seem to be a head-to-head competitor for the Adam's.

I'm still considering the B&W option because the way I mix things end up sounding like you're listening things on a hi-fi system, so if I start with that as a baseline maybe it'd be less work. Dunno, it's still just a theory I'm working on.

Ive done what you have done in my video studio. My audio studio sounded so much better with the 25 year old monitorsI know so well, and the video studio using passive 5” RCFs was fine but just hiding things, like hums and occasional colouration from reflections.

I decided to buy some active Adam 8” speakers for the audio studio because a friend had some and I liked the sound, BUT put them in the audio studio to replace the tired speakers there. Old 8” celestions. Not the best when new, but i know them so well. I found the Adams difficult. They sounded wonderful, but too modern, so i moved them to the video studio, which was a real success. Instantly more revealing of my occasional problems, and unexpectedly also making hiss more obvious to even my aged ears. Hugely better sounding and somehow, either side of my very large multiview screen, they do not sound like two speakers, but a proper soundfield. The old 5” speakers were very obviously two sources. I had not expected that. I suspect the ribbon tweeter is what does it.

In a video studio, monitoring for our sort of quality and purpose, i have zero time for hifi stupidity, so stuff oxygen free cable, and all the other hyperbole they trot out. Not once in broadcast studios have i seen hifi mentality. No hugely expensive cable, no boutique amps, and hifi branded gear. It isn't cost, its effectiveness. Ive sat in nasty spaces in trucks with Genelec small monitors, run from a 19” rack mount amp of any make, often repurposed. If you justify millions of pounds spent on other elements, they could use expensive audio gear, but they dont. They use what they can hear. I bet your video studio/edit suite is not silent, does have loads of reflections from screens, and probably has to compromise speaker positioning from the ideal. So you need something that reveals and is not tiring. Some equipment is an instant impact on first switch on. Swapping a cheap amp for a silly one is never audible. Pros nevr waste money on fashion and trends.


I would not consider ANY items from your Hfi list. Especially the line conditioners and cable. I went with 8” Adams simply because on paper, the low end matched my old speakers. I’m actually pretty sure had I bought the 7” version I would be just as happy. I have no idea what my speaker cable brand is in the audio studio. It was two core yellow, so I suspect it was probably building site arctic 110v left from a job in 2004. Thickish copper, probably 1.5mm2, perfectly good enough. The video studio of course just has two cables to the interface. Theyre black!

Thanks for the great reply, bravo.

I'm with you about the hi-fi mentality; most of the info geared towards uninformed general consumer marketplace.

Both the HEDD and Adam units have had all positive reviews and both claim extreme accuracy and tuning for the environment so I'll be fine with either.

I'll let the forum know which way I go when it's time and make my own review for others to get some real-world info on units that have little exposure to our genre of editors.

Cheers.

I've converted my dining room into my new edit suite which surprisingly is very "dead" with nearly zero reflections anywhere and a neutral sonic environment.

Bingo! Even if it’s brand new, your dining room in fact your house wasn’t built as a dedicated recording studio, so the first thing you have to do is to check its electrical cabling to avoid getting any clicks, hums and interference once you install, start running your new set up to build up a client base. Are there any police stations, fire stations or FM transmitters in your vicinity? Possible interference there.

Even if there’s not you should use the money you saved by going ‘near field’ and not ‘hi fi’ to bring in a specialised electrician to check and maybe re-cable your entire house, just not the dining room. Read up about a star ground earthing system, and call an established studio to find out who they used. Do it now.

I can tell you about some examples in Sydney, one studio that wisely rewired their whole electrical system before they started, one that didn’t and it cost them a fortune after they started, and one because of repeated static interference in their power, just gave up and closed their business. You need to be with the first example.

In 1977 in Sydney I bought a 2 story old 1940 building and with the proper advice we re-cabled the entire place with a star ground electrical earthing system, and never had any electrical problems the 24yrs we were in operation, before I got an offer I couldn’t refuse and I sold it all to retire.

Here’s that day in August 1977, I signed the cheque for our building. Eventually Robert you need to be in a similar position to retire.

Cheers.

Interesting story, but I don't plan to ever retire. Boring future.

One of the things that covid f-ed up for me was the release of a new motorsports series for the web. Had a $2M sponsored budget and 10 episodes ready to go into preproduction, then it all had to be shut down. I'm bringing back that show - in modified form - and produce that until I'm fertilizer, not do client work.

So rewiring the house isn't practical or necessary, I can clean up the electrical system with commercial-grade UPS's and line conditioners that will remove any instability from the incoming power grid. That's what I did in my last real office/edit suite I had downtown.

If I was going to actually transform the house into a client-based studio like what Brad Pitt and partners did with Miraval Studios then ya, it'd be a major undertaking.

Appreciate the stories guys, it's good to see how much talent there is out there still posting on DVinfo. Probably makes Chris proud too.

Cheers.

Just for those who are curious...

This is the show that's coming back, god willing late spring 2025:

Very few people in the UK have dirty power in any way that needs fixing. The only time we use UPS is for no power outages. We get very few real cuts here. One in my studio in five years since i moved in when a digger outside cut the cable. Fixed in two hours. No conditioning required at all here. Im surprised the US has such bad electricity supply. Our voltage and frequency stability is good here. Power treatment is something we only do to solve a problem. Its never built into a project as standard?

It depends on the area and how close to a nuclear power facility you are.

In my neck 'o the woods we're blessed with being a non-disaster state; no fires, floods, eartquakes, tornadoes... none of the stuff say like California, Florida or the eastern coastline has to put up with.

And because our original phone system going back to the 1940's had a nuclear-hardened point-of-presence here, our area all the original copper - and now fibre - is also very clean and very stable with very few niggles.

(Interesting side-note: I did some consulting for a now defunct division of an AT&T marriage with BT called, "Concert". We got to tour the "P.O.P." and learned why during the cold war that making telcom and SATcom as reliable as possible was priority #1 here. Amazing stuff they did back then. And we still have massive cables running on the ocean floor connecting us to the European and Pac-Asian continents for data and voice. But I digress...)

With exception to my old office downtown where we'd have a power cut nearly every month because some drunk or distracted driver would take out a nearby transformer or fibre pedastal, here in my new home area it's been almost 100% stable.

There's always going to be "noise" in power transmission lines regardless where you live on the planet, caused by natural resistance in cabling, the various transformer and relay stations pushing along the high-current across the lands and even just the fuse-box at home creates it's own resistance and noise and sends it down the line to your power outlet. Nobody has naturally occuring 100% clean, noise-free power, it's just not physically possible. It's just the way an electrical power grid works.

So a UPS disconnects you from the internal grid in your home/office and the newer units have conditioning built-in (yeah, they're much more expensive than the typical UPS you'd get at an electronics store) but the difference is audible when you're dealing with high-current relays in the nearfields we use.

And you can clearly see the difference on a 'scope, between house/office power outlet and what comes out of a conditioning UPS. The stuff right from the socket is messy at best, out of the UPS it's a nearly 90% reduction in "noise" and fluctuations.

The other main difference between your power and the US is that we're at differrent line frequencies; you're 50hz, we're 60. That's exactly what started the whole PAL vs. NTSC video spec differences, is the power grid. And it's all because of the raster lines that could be picked up by video cameras during a shoot; if the frame-rate matched the raster line paint frequency, you'd see that nasty black horizontal line on a TV screen while filming.

Amazing how as production professionals have to consider something as simple as the power we get to do our work. But it's kinda cool in a tech-geek sorta way too.

Scott - good thread you have here.
Educational and interesting replies.

Have a question, coming from a hi-fi background but believe that "Two thirds of good video is good audio". (so please don't shoot the messenger)

anyway, here it goes:
ISo a UPS disconnects you from the internal grid in your home/office and the newer units have conditioning built-in (yeah, they're much more expensive than the typical UPS you'd get at an electronics store) but the difference is audible when you're dealing with high-current relays in the nearfields we use.
So, when you use the term "UPS", you're talking about a more sophisticated unit that one generally gets. For example, we've got a couple here from Costco, an older Trip-Lite and a newer CyberPower unit (battery on the TripLite gave out so got the second one while I ordered a replacement battery.

We have had power outages (surrounded by lots of trees [aka, "firewood"] in western Washington) and wind storms wind up causing fir tree branches and falling trees to take out the main power lines. The units help with smoothing out the blips (branches hitting the lines but not taking them [ed: lines] out) and the occasional outage (providing time to safely close down the computer). I'd think that the voltage regulation via the surge outlets, [voltage] which can be seen on the screen, is reasonably good. These were 1350VA to 1600, running in the $150 - 200 range.They'd probably only 'condition' voltage, but not likely frequency.

Are these the type you'd classify as not, or not very, suitable? (f.e., 'typical electronics store')

[another edit: you mentioned "relays". One of the UPS units in the office, just recently, started cutting out (quitting) and it may be the relays. However, don't know if they're they same kind of relays that were referred to. I disconnected some items from the UPS and haven't had a problem since so the relays are probably wearing out. Didn't have any large speakers but did have a lot of other "computer" related items (including computers, monitors, printer, backup drive, etc, kinda stuff).]

Who's Scott??

Yes, the UPS's I'm referring to you don't get from Costco or Best Buy. Usually places like Grainger or even B&H photo where they sell the larger units that can power an entire rack of equipment for a full day before needing to shut down the computer/peripherals. About $2,500 is an average cost, but the clean electrical supply and having many hours of usable work time is mission-critical to me.

The relays I'm referring to are in the nearfields, the ones that live in the built-in power supplies since nearly all nearfields these days are self-powered. The relays especially amplify any "dirty" power they're being fed and that's where most of the floor-noise or "hiss" we all complain about comes from. When you feed them clean power the hiss is nearly imperceptible - depending the unit and the quality of the built-in amps.

I've found that KRK, Mackie, Behrigner, Presonus, M-Audio, low-end JBL and others that are sub-$1K per unit have especially noisy amps, regardless how much power they deliver.

So yeah, clean power has many ramifications in the world of pro-audio/video editing when it comes to getting as good a signal into and out of the monitors as possible.

Keep in mind that like mentioned above, no matter how good the power going in is, if the internal circuitry is crap or sub-par you're still going to get hiss and other less-than-enjoyable output that's audible to the trained ear in a controlled studio environment.

But if you're in a run-n-gun situation and you're cutting edits in a hotel room, you do what you can and don't sweat the small stuff.

Relays are the cause of hiss? Surely you jest?

The relays in the products I have that use them to power on and off a unit isolate the power and relay coil side - that's the entire point isn't it? They're a locally controlled switch, no different from a real two pole mains power switch on virtually anything. I'm uncertain now if we are talking about real things or magic?

The only time in the UK people complain about power is in the price - now around 50pa KW/Hr. We do have some RF issues with switch mode power supplies, and occasionally data networks superimposed on mains wiring to allow electronics equipment to be marketed as cable free. I also got a bit lost on the closest to nuclear power plants be good/bad?

Power supply frequency also seems to be irrelevant.

My own experience of UPS devices is mixed. The cheaper variety simply monitor supply voltage and if it drops they switch from the mains power input to the internal inverter version of mains power. The brief gap rarely causes issues. The alternative type which generates continual power from a permanently running inverter charged from mains input is much more expensive, especially in the higher power versions. However, looking at the waveforms they produce, there seem to me to be some distortion of the waveform. Sure, they are better than dirty mains, but as I said, UK mains power is very reliable, outages rare and noise levels low enough I have few issues with supply. I have had a number of oddities but these are always in industrial areas where high power machinery kicks in and out, swinging neutrals a bit which often seems to result in visible dips in lighting - but rarely in audio. A few folk here will use them when running from portable generators, but where real power is available, over hear power conditioners are very rare. Those that do have them have no idea if they are doing anything?

Overhead power at domestic voltages is getting less and less, and supply is more normally underground. Transformers up poles are rarely seen in towns. I don't think I have seen one around my own town. In the country, distribution is overhead, often at 11KV, with transformers down to 240 3 phase (415 between phases) on poles. 3 phase at supply voltages might be overhead going to small units or farms, but normally in built up areas, brick built 11KV substations feed domestic and industrial properties.

I really didn't know the US power distribution system was this odd? Useful info - thanks.

Here’s that day in August 1977, I signed the cheque for our building. Eventually Robert you need to be in a similar position to retire.

Alan, that photo of you with the stacked champagne glasses reminds me of those champagne glass pyramids that tended to be the finale of something on TV back in that period of time.

What was the cultural thinking behind the glamour (or whatever) of having stacked champagne glasses?

Andrew

I'm not an electrical engineer so the precise cause of hiss as described to me by someone who works the numbers for a living said that transformers and relays are the Achilles heel in nearfields.

Adam, Focal, Kali, upper-end JBL, HEDD and others where the per unit cost is over $1,000 have spent the money on great if not amazing internals, hence their accuracy and low floor-noise characteristics.

Kali especially, went out of their way to put the research and development into clean power supplies. They don't look like much on the outside but what's hidden in the cabinets are impressive. Those guys are former JBL engineers who decided they could do better than what corporate JBL would allow.

And yes, the US and UK power systems couldn't be more disparate. One of the reasons your grid is cleaner and has less issues is that the USA's contintental landmass is 40x times larger than the UK.

More often than not power originates thousands of miles from final distribution neighborhoods, and with those distances comes hundreds of substations, never ending high-tension lines, splitting transformers where more than one state shares the same grid... it's big, messy and noisy.

The grid that serves my metro area could light up the whole of the UK with power to spare.

When the original plans for power distribution were created there was no such thing as sensitive electronics such as we have today. And although the various suppliers are constantly upgrading the infrastructure for greater reliability and efficiency we'll just never have the simplistic and lower maintenance grid the UK enjoys

Not until we figure out how to how to cost effectively give every household it's own off-grid power generation. Wind and solar... we're still far far away from that reality.

There are "balanced power" devices available. . A friend of mine installed balanced power in his entire studio, which was built from the ground up, It was not a low-cost installation process though. btw, the studio is featured in this months issue of 'Mix'
.https://www.mixonline.com/recording/facilities/inside-the-clubhouse

Allan, that photo of you with the stacked champagne glasses reminds me of those champagne glass pyramids that tended to be the finale of something on TV back in that period of time.

What was the cultural thinking behind the glamour (or whatever) of having stacked champagne glasses?

Andrew

Hi Andrew. We’re a bit off topic, but that was the day in 1977, I signed for our 1940 building. To say I was excited is way under estimating it, and I was waiting for my acoustic and electrical engineers to show up, otherwise I’d have drunk the whole bottle. One ironic side story, over the years I tried to buy a good pre-loved Steinway grand piano, but here in Sydney they’re like hens teeth, gone in a flash. So I bought a good Yamaha G7 grand instead.

In 2001 after I sold our 2 story studio building, the developers built a 10 story apartment building with a shopping arcade on the ground floor. In the front shop was the Sydney agents for Steinway with 5 new grands, one placed exactly where I would have positioned mine …

I love reviews like that (not). They throw a few details in then cloud it all with names. I remember a studio i visited twice in the 70s, when i was young. It was not in London, and loads of famous people recorded there. My memory says it was grubby, smokey, and not at all nice. Ive spoken in re ent years to ‘names’ who worked there a lot and they all said they really hated it, yet produced great work there. The record company picked it because it was cheap. I bet all the names dropped in that article have also worked in many studios, so having them on a list means very little. Details of the walls is solid info and useful, old pine flooring suggests they didn't have the money for new! I know they mean its antique, but its a ‘hifi’ type comment. The bit about mics going direct to pres is another. Most people do this by default. In fact, mics via patchbays has always been frowned on, but many multi facilities do it for convenience. Places here like Abbey Road and the BBC do it so rooms can be linked and they dont consider a functioning and noise free patchbay link a sonic issue? If you look at Abbey Road as an example, the room the Beatles and countless thousands have recorded in is pretty grotty. Rough walls, painted over many times, old original floors, countless year on year technical mods, old light fixtures etc etc. but it sounds good, and doesnt sound like the size of room it is. Some places are technically poor but have a great feeling, others the reverse, technically excellent but not good to work in. The workhorse studios make money by throughput and minimal downtime. Home studios can frequently perform equally as well as many pro studios. Being excited about old reclaimed wood is just silly! Thats decoration and marketing. I dont know for certain, but if you took the top one hundred quality and care concious recordings, hifi attributes would be sadly lacking. As in gold plug pins, oxygen free cable and general technical cutting edge, unmeasureable hyperbole.

But Paul ‘decoration and marketing’ certainly helps business, as does good acoustics. Here you can see in back, one of the Helmholtz resonators in our Studio A. The acoustics were done by the renowned Richard Priddle and the studio interior was built with Australian Mahogany timber, by 2 Californian specialty carpenters who bought a container load of Mahogany to ship back to SoCal for their custom furniture business.

I met them and was very lucky to buy the additional Mahogany they couldn’t fit in their container. You can see they aligned all the panels and bought out the timber grain with their special polish. Architecture Australia decided it was work of art and did an article on us and that bought in more studio business. You can see our 6’ Yamaha grand piano and it with the acoustics and bought in the Australian Flute Syllabus job, 10 teaching CDs for flute students over their 5 year course.
Cheers.

So glad to see this thread has taken a life of it's own.

I miss the heady days of the forum where you'd start any topic and by the time you got to the latest post the subject digressed so far it was about what somebody's grandmothers' cat ate on Thursday.
Ah, I miss those days...

You guys keep sharing; it's heartwarming to see the stories and how interconnected we all are - and don't realize it.

Cheers.

Hi Robert, in the early days of video camera websites it was the other way around, on the Panasonic3CCDuser.com site, as mods, we used to encourage members to stay on the same topic with news and information on that subject. This was so other people could do a search of the site to find a subject that interested them, but times change.

Here’s something that might interest you and others. For my studio control room I bought and installed a pair of 16” Tannoy Classic speakers. Have you ever heard of ‘speaker rotation’?

In their cabinets, I was advised to rotate the speakers 180 degrees every so often because the heavy speaker coils would drag the robust speaker cones down over time. When they were new I took some fine measurements and sure enough this started to happen. Over the 24yrs I used them, every 18months I carefully unscrewed and rotated the speakers 180d.

This won’t interest everybody, but it’s worth passing on for anyone with big speakers. Cheers.

Actually yes, I'd heard of that from an engineer at Capitol Records. They actually have a schedule of "rotations" they do on their most expensive and primary control-room monitors.

The reason I say it's good to see the thread take another life, is that back in the day this forum was THE place to get real-world, verified advice on just about anything going on in the production world. It's how I became a Panny consultant back in the mid-2000's.

Nowadays with FB and all the other social media outlets (I HATE Reddit... ugh) our beloved forum is seeing far less activity - which saddens me, because there's still a plethora of "old-school" talent that frequent here, that could share TONS of valuable information on just about every possible topic. Even how to clean up cat puke. hahaha

Cheers.

PS: I had another old set of Tannoy's, can't remember the model, but the cabinets were about 50% percent smaller, some form of redwood or Cherrywood and were one of the most organic-sounding monitors I'd ever owned. Until they were stolen. Oh well..

Hi Robert,

I'm currently looking for some new audio monitors, too. Not exactly your situation, but here's what I'm thinking:

Currently, I have some nice, but now older Event 20/20 BAS monitors. Even at my level (producer with an emphasis on audio post for corporate and small docs, with some music mixed in), there's an increasing request/need for at least 5.1 surround. I'm not sure I want to dive into that; I know people who are excellent posties and I will probably continue to turn to them. However, I want to buy monitors that I could include in a 5.1 system if needed. So I'm limiting my search to NFMs.

I'm considering:

Neumann KH80 or KH120 II
https://www.neumann.com/en-gb/products/monitors?selectedFilters=55fa8f22-3bf4-42af-a113-c4a11f018287
An acquaintance is mixing classical music on a pair of KH80s and is really happy, and a friend who is a full-time mixer for docs and music is really impressed by the KH80s (though he needs a sub and the Neumann subs are rather expensive). The Neumann monitoring alignment system (mic + software) is apparently finicky to set up, but effective: https://www.neumann.com/en-gb/products/monitor-accessories/ma-1

HEDD Type 05 mkII (maybe Type 07)
https://hedd.audio/products/type-05-mk2
I don't know much about these, other than people doing work similar to mine like them.

Barefoot Sound Footprint03
https://barefootsound.com/footprint03/
I've always like Barefoot's speaker, and the 03, at US$2000/pair is their first sort-of-affordable model. You may have heard about the supposed hiss problem... I'm still trying to sussss out what's going on there. A design flaw? A QA issue? An internet rumor? Not sure yet.

JBL 306P MkII
Way less expensive than the others, but I've spent a lot of time in front of these. They're pretty nice and a pair with a sub costs only US$800. And that means expanding to 5.1 would be fairly affordable.
https://www.jbl.com/studio-monitors/306PMKII-.html

I'm not totally closed off to some other brands, but this is what I'm currently considering. But like you, there aren't any local dealers who have all these in stock. I live near San Francisco, so I'll probably head down to LA and listen to everything at Vintage King. https://vintageking.com

The HEDD's will outperform everything in your list, mostly because the engineering is very tight and, they have a massive amount of tuning available on the back panel. I've never seen any nearfield with that much customization available - that didn't cost $10,000 a copy or more.

HEDD also have a specific 5.1 setup you shoud look at based around the 5" inch Mk2. It's hard to find on their website (might even be a sub-site) but if you can afford max-accuracy that's the direction I'd go.

The other, less expensive but also very accurate system would be anything from BlueSky. Check out the 5.1 Media Desk:

https://abluesky.com/products/mediadesk-5-1-mkii/

For whatever reason they've been very underrated for years and mostly unknown, but when I tested them for my now-defunct blog (during the recession of '08) I was blown away by their quality and organic output. At the time nobody else - and probably still - couldn't compare for the cost. Truly amazing units.

As far as I know, Blue Sky discontinued their MediaDesk line years ago. I don't want to invest in a discontinued product.

Have you compared the HEDD monitors to those from Barefoot and Neumann in a good listening environment? If so, I'd love to know more about how you thought they were better?

Actually yes, I'd heard of that from an engineer at Capitol Records. They actually have a schedule of "rotations" they do on their most expensive and primary control-room monitors.

The reason I say it's good to see the thread take another life, is that back in the day this forum was THE place to get real-world, verified advice on just about anything going on in the production world. It's how I became a Panny consultant back in the mid-2000's.

Hi Robert, did you see the revolutionary Panasonic GS400 consumer video cam in the early 2000s. That’s how I got involved with the Panasonic3CCDuser.com site.

Jim, currently a couple of corporate video companies here are investing in Dolby Atmos speaker setups.
The HEDD speaker outfit advertises it.

Cheers.

As far as I know, Blue Sky discontinued their MediaDesk line years ago. I don't want to invest in a discontinued product.

Have you compared the HEDD monitors to those from Barefoot and Neumann in a good listening environment? If so, I'd love to know more about how you thought they were better?

BlueSky did in fact cancel a few of their products but they are still very much alive and well. I haven't heard a MediaDesk in years but from what I remember you'd have to spend a LOT of money to get something better/more accurate.

Hi Robert, did you see the revolutionary Panasonic GS400 consumer video cam in the early 2000s. That’s how I got involved with the Panasonic3CCDuser.com site.

Jim, currently a couple of corporate video companies here are investing in Dolby Atmos speaker setups.
The HEDD speaker outfit advertises it.

Cheers.

I don't remember that Panny unit. What got me involved was that I was testing ALL the brand-new, handheld HD cams when they first hit the market

I landed on the HVX200 for several reasons and then started posting tons of info and how-to's here on the forum (those posts are still here, amazingly) because it was bleeding-edge tech and nobody really knew what it was capable of. I was pesonally blown away at what it could do and literally spent months testing and putting it through the ringer before I put it into a production environment.

Then Jan Crittenden, bless her soul, saw all my posts and asked me to come onboard as a consultant. Ended up going to NAB that year and met the engineers from Japan and other crucial Panny crew based here in the US. Amazing company. Considering how much smaller they are compared to Sony, Canon and even JVC it's incredible the tech they've come up with over the years. And how forward-thinking the company is, not afraid to take risks in new tech.

It's no surprise that going forward my production camera is also Panny-based, the Lumix S1H. Love that gorgeous organic Panny-chip color. Now if they would just put a global-shutter in the damned DSLR's... I'd be in heaven. And NO, I'll never buy the new Sony just because it has global. (see, here we go - disgressing the topic AGAIN!! hahahaah)

BTW: It's interesting that a few of the responders to this post are "over the pond", specifically in the UK.

What most Amercians are totally unaware of, is that much of our best audio tech and even professional recording artists actually came from and/or originated from British companies.

Think about it:

- Naim
- Cambridge
- the Fairlight console (now part of DaVinci Resolve's software package)
- Wharfdale
- Audio Lab
- NAD
- Aston mics
- Tannoy
- Graham Audio...
- Judas Priest
- Elton John
- Led Zepplin
- Freddie Mercury... and the list goes on seemingly endless.

Lest we forget, where would the world of professional production be without the BBC??! That organziation's influence is legendary, not to mention a worldwide standard that every audio and camera manufacturer hopes to be blessed by. Forget about what Netflix likes, if the BBC says, "you're good..." then you're golden.

Personally I've always been blown away by the pre-WWII radio broadcasting capabilities of the BBC, shortwave, long-wave, Omega navigation... the world literally got all it's news from the BBC until the US and France started their own over-the-seas long-range broadcasts during the big war.

Again... disgressing away from the topic. So sue me. hahaha

As far as I know, Blue Sky discontinued their MediaDesk line years ago. I don't want to invest in a discontinued product.

Have you compared the HEDD monitors to those from Barefoot and Neumann in a good listening environment? If so, I'd love to know more about how you thought they were better?

I forgot to answer the question...

I've never heard Barefoot and don't have access, but I've never been impressed by Neumann over the years. I've always respected the brand because they get such good play, but the HEDD units will blow away anything Neumann makes, hands down.

In fact the only other brand that's in the same wheelhouse - as far as cost-to-quality-of-output is ADAM. There are others that surpass HEDD, but the margin of cost is so high you'd better own a multi-million-dollar post-house for it to make sense spending that kind of dough.

In fact I've settled on one of two 3-way monitors from either HEDD or ADAM for my new edit suite. I'm hoping to demo them both in California before the holidays, but even if that's not possible I know I'll be super-happy with either.

Ironically, if I could get a pair, even used, I'd get the BlueSky SAT-8's immediately. They're quite honestly one of the best, most analogous, natural and easy-on-the-ear midfields I've ever heard - again, that don't cost $10K a copy. But they were discontinued years ago, back during the recession. They would either give the HEDD's a run for their money or, be slightly superior. I don't know how BlueSky pulled it off, but they did. Trouble was the cabinet was too big for most and the output natrually high, so it was overwhelming for most home-based or smallish studios.

If I can find a pair - and I'm actively looking - I'll report back and take control-room samples so others can hear what I'm talking about. They're almost like the old-school large-cabinet Tannoys', they're magical and accurate in their output.

BTW: It's interesting that a few of the responders to this post are "over the pond", specifically in the UK.

What most Amercians are totally unaware of, is that much of our best audio tech and even professional recording artists actually came from and/or originated from British companies.

Think about it:

- Naim
- Cambridge
- the Fairlight console (now part of DaVinci Resolve's software package)
- Wharfdale
- Audio Lab
- NAD
- Aston mics
- Tannoy
- Graham Audio...
- Judas Priest
- Elton John
- Led Zepplin
- Freddie Mercury... and the list goes on seemingly endless.

Lest we forget, where would the world of professional production be without the BBC??! That organziation's influence is legendary, not to mention a worldwide standard that every audio and camera manufacturer hopes to be blessed by. Forget about what Netflix likes, if the BBC says, "you're good..." then you're golden.

Personally I've always been blown away by the pre-WWII radio broadcasting capabilities of the BBC, shortwave, long-wave, Omega navigation... the world literally got all it's news from the BBC until the US and France started their own over-the-seas long-range broadcasts during the big war.

Again... disgressing away from the topic. So sue me. hahaha

A very interesting bunch of posts, guys. Some fascinating viewpoints. Keep it going!

Being 80% retired now, only doing the gigs that appeal to me. And since closing my city studio down, I'm now working from home. Not wanting to spend a fortune on a video edit suite / studio build at home, along with the space considerations that are involved, I now do most of my audio mixes on a variety of different cans. Everyone was saying, "But you cannot really get a good mix on headphones!" Well to my surprise once I got over this, you can't mix on headphones, mental block I found I could. And with reasonable results. Enough to satisfy my clients.

A couple of years ago, I mentioned to a major studio engineer how I was doing more of my mixes on cans, and he said, "That doesn't surprise me. If it's good enough for guys like Andrew Scheps to mix on cans, it's probably good enough for many others to learn the discipline."

He recently mentioned to me that the AES is having their "2025 International Conference on Headphone Technology" in Dipoli, Finland this year. Specifically on headphones, as the AES's latest research indicated that anywhere up to 82% of the worlds' music, podcast, gaming, exercise listening and audiobook listeners are now listening on Bluetooth buds, earphones and various other headphones types, closed, open etc. Also, stating that some 300 million pairs of headphones are expected to be sold this year, 2024. Totally and massively dwarfing the worldwide home speaker market.

Not being a total recording audiophile, I didn't know who Andrew Scheps was. The engineer I was talking to suggested I watch this YT video. I also looked Scheps' background up. Needless to say, I found what he had to say regarding mixing on headphones vs speakers to be very interesting. I like this discussion so far. I'd be interested to hear if anyone here has their own comments and thoughts about mixing for this massive no speaker, diverse headphone listening market?

Chris Young

https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/earphone-and-headphone-market

https://www.mcdman.com/scheps

Andrew Scheps & Fab Dupont discuss mixing with headphones - YouTube

I didn't watch the video, but here's some advice based on my own years of experience...

At some point we've all had to use headphones for one reason or another, but to use them exclusively vs traditional monitors can be a dicey proposition.

There's been several times that I spent the majority of a mix on a set of what I considered "great" 'phones, only to revisit the mix a day later on my seasoned monitors and find tons of problems that didn't sound natural - or appealing.

Can it be done? Certainly but these are the considerations you need to keep in mind:

- Headphones can be for more fatiguing earlier on than a good set of monitors, mainly because you're literally putting the active element just mm's away from your eardrums. Especially with high-frequencies you can literally overdrive ear quickly depending on the volume level and how harsh the 'phone elements translate the audio signals.

- It takes a seriously trained set of ears to recognize how 'phones color the sound - because of their ultra-close proximity to the eardrum. Rarely have I been able to do a final mix on 'phones and be happy with that mix on other devices during review.

- Just like monitors, having a high-quality set of 'phones is essential to make an entire mix with. Both because a premium set of driver elements will be able to transmit the sound without over-stressing the eardrum and, be consistent and reliable over the years. That means the typical set of 'phones that's under $700 won't cut it, you'd need to spend around $2K to be in that ballpark.

- And to really get full use of HQ 'phones you absolutely need a dedicated headphone amp, of which there are several. Do your due-diligence, I don't have enough experience to make suggestions on that. Zzounds I've found has several technical sales people who can help you suss out the right fit for the phones you want to use.

- There's only a handful of pro-monitor makers that also make headphones, but don't assume their quality transfers to their phones. For example, Focal makes ultra-high quality near and midfields, but their headphones... total crap. HEDD alternatively just released (or is about to release) their set of 'phones and they're fantastic. (I was able to demo them recently - really amazing.)

- Don't assume that well-known "professoinal" headphone brands make the type you can actually mix with non-stop. I've loved Sennheisers for years, but I've never heard a pair that didn't give me fatigue way too early for long-term edits. Grado, is another example of fantastic "hi-fi" 'phones that fall really short when it comes to truly critical listening.

There are obvious benefits to using 'phones full-time and if you can afford and train your ears to the environment would put you into a small group of people who can make it an asset.

Thanks for the feedback. Understand your POV. Mine was much the same until I watched this video. It made me reevaluate my approach to mixing. And I don't regret it, some forty plus years later, back from the very early days of the Yammy NS-10s.

Was just interested to hear others opinions.

Chris Young

That video had some great points, such as mixing with headphones because that's what the bulk of the audience will also be listening with anyway.

Andrew

My challenge to that is the majority of video consumers listen on earpods, not even low-grade headphones these days, so this creates a whole new issue.

This is a discussion/fortune telling session I've had with several other pros in the past 2 years: We put so much energy into making our final output as visually and sonically as gorgeous as possible (at least the vast majority of us do), yet the buik of the audience is going to see and hear this work on cell phones. Not even decent computers with external audio anymore.

That being said, what's the point of all the work? 6K, 422/10 or 12-bit video? Hah! There's no cell phone at any price that can actuallly display all that data and individual pixels with any accurracy whatsoever.

And being listened to from the same device? Nobody's going to be able to appreciate a solid mix if all they've got are earbuds that can barely reproduce half of the audible frequencies humans can hear, the rest is either sub-sonic or just get turned into digital background noise from all the network compression. Video too suffers from big-time compression, no matter who it comes from. There's just no practical way to distribute even just standard HD at bitrates high enough to really showcase anything close to what we're seeing on our edit screens.

So why all the fuss, then?

Times have and are changing, fast. My hunch tells me the hundreds of millions dollars spent on making our content as close to original as possible is soon just going to go away. If all the world does is watch on mobile devices, not even port over to computers with fibre-download speeds... I think this is all just going to be overkill in less than 5 years.

We'll see...

I agree Robert but that’s not going to stop the producers, studios and folks with money from continuing to improve the ‘quality’ of their product. It’ll be from the competition point of view, if you don’t do it, your competition will and that’ll attract more business for them, while we all wonder what are they on about. No one can reproduce it except some reviewers with supposed golden ears.

I remember when we finished a rock music mix, we used to race out into the car park to check it on various car cassette players. Mercedes sounded better than Ford and my Datsun 240Z sounded pretty good too …

Sadly, I have to almost totally agree with what you are saying. The direction the listening, viewing audience is going forces us to have to reevaluate just what our mixing and encoding priorities are.

Recently, we, there are a couple of us working on this, have had a fair bit of revision work for certain clients. Revising tracks that were recorded in the '50s and '60s onwards. In some cases upscaling video, SD to HD, using AI upscaling. Also, HD to 4K, again using AI upscaling. With the audio, it's been a pig's breakfast. Everything from '50s mono to faux stereo remixing and stereo remixing from later multitrack sources when available. Then mastering the reworked audio to all the current LUFS requirements for play out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, Facebook et al. The mixes are primarily aimed at the headphone wearing crowd, but we are also making sure that they sound ok on home theater setups.

Of course this means a variety of master audio outputs as not all the modern social media delivery platforms mandate the same LUFS levels. Most are requiring LUFS at14, but just check the requirements below:

Spotify: -14 LUFS (integrated)
Apple Music: -16 LUFS (integrated)
YouTube: -14 LUFS (integrated)
Tidal: -14 LUFS (integrated)
Amazon Music: -14 LUFS (integrated)
Deezer: -15 LUFS (integrated)

I can't post a sample as it's copyright material. But if anyone wants to see / hear the type of regrade and remixes we are doing, primarily for headphones, they can PM me direct, and I can reply with a download link. This link sent will only be good for 7 days as of today. If you do download, be prepared as it is in the order of 3.3GB.

The download is an H.265 demonstration example we made to demonstrate the results that can obtained. It's from an HD to 4K AI Upscale with temporal and spatial video noise reduction applied along with a new film grain process applied. Plus a color palette regrade. The color palette is transferred from the 2008 theatrical release. The '08 color grade has now been applied to the 1992 Directors Cut release. A clip of which is used in this example.

The audio has been remixed for LUFS 14. Shorts average 11-12, to Shorts Max hitting into the 9s on plosives. Average range just on LUFS 6. Integrated range around LUFS 11.5 - 12. The multichannel audio has been reworked to obtain the best spread of all the audio elements across the stereo sound field when viewing and listening in stereo on headphones on social media platforms in 2024. For the above reason it was all mixed on cans.

Comments gladly accepted!

Chris Young

Out of interest Christopher what brand and model of cans are you using? Any headphone amps?
About 2yrs ago proving how popular they are, Audio Technica released their ATH M50x cans in 5 colours.

The new sound shop Mannys in Sydney, to build up their new emailing list, had them on line for $98 a pair. Couldn’t resist it, I bought this red pair to go with my old ones. Then there’s another can of worms, should I break them in by listening to them for hours? Cheers.

Alan, that is a good price for the ATH M50x cans. Not surprised you couldn't resist them.

For the last twenty years or so, I've been using Sony's classic MDR-7506 cans. Had about four sets over that period. I will be adding a set of Sony's new MDR-M1 cans to work alongside the old 7506 until l 'learn' the M1.

The other set I am getting used to and using more and more as I learn them and get used to what they are delivering are Rode's NTH100 cans, along with their AI-1 preamp.

Chris Young

Sony MDR-M1 Professional Headphone Review - A New Closed-Back Studio Standard? - YouTube

I Spent 30 Days with Rode's NEW Headphones (NTH-100) - YouTube

Chris,

Have you received some DM's about the sample video?

Andrew

Andrew. Nope! Whether I will or not is open to question. 🤔😁❓

Chris Young

Back to the monitors...

I just demoed a brand I'd never heard of before, and these crazy Italians have really hit it out of the park. Not doing either HEDD or Adams, I'm getting a pair of the iLoud Precision MTM's.

Read the info on their website and you'll get an idea of why I was totallly blown away - not to mention they come with software and a mic to tune the system to the room! And not $10K a copy:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/index.php

Even the lower-line of monitors are really stunning.

IK is a game-changer - for me, anyway.

PS: The first pair of "really good" headphones that changed the audio world for me was the now ancient, KOSS HV/1A. Radio Shack (Tandy) even had a version of these. The bass response felt like sitting in front of my parents Sansui 4-channel hi-fi system. It was like a drug...

Hmm! Yes, new to me also.

Looks like they have a pretty wide and diverse range of all kinds of kit. I shall keep an 👁️&👂 on them. Thanks for the heads-up.

Chris Young

iLoud Precision MTM's. Sound on Sound mag (the only one I have trusted for 30+ years) had no cons and all pro's. Do keep us updated when you've had them a while. I'm seriously intrigued what you will think?

...and I can't wait to share with y'all all the info possible but, as life often does something else has cropped up demanding the budget monies. In fact I'm probably going to be stuck with an intermediary setup until maybe after the holidays.

That middle-step is probably going to be the Fluid Audio FX80's V2. I've not seen anyone test those before, so I'll report back on those - until it's time for the "big stuff".

Put down your Dyson vacuum cleaner for a minute and try their Dyson headphones …

https://youtu.be/KW0nyPCQbjY

https://youtu.be/CpXCHL_VwGY

https://www.dyson.com/content/dam/dyson/leap-petite-global/markets/australia/571/5617.06_WEAR_24_ANZ_571H_Owner_User_Manual.pdf

OMG... NFM... (Not For Me!)

Chris Young

Hah new direction Chris. BTW if you’re in the vicinity of Chatswood in Sydney there’s an interesting store which advertises that you can demo headphones etc. in their shop. They seem to have most brands there. https://www.minidisc.com.au/brand

Cheers.

Interesting!

Victoria Ave. Try to avoid it like a plague. Though I do have a shoot coming up shortly at the Concourse in Chatswood, which is just off Victoria Ave. So who knows!

Chris Young

Chris, what’s interesting about that shop is you can audition many of their products while you’re there.

Opens another can of worms, but they have many headphones of all prices in stock.
Cheers.