Hi, I have no experience, but I have good ears. ;) I use the sound system to watch my documentaries. I do the video editing myself and there is a narrative voice in all of them. My audio system includes 2 tweeters, a central speaker (for the voice), a subfoofer and 2 rear speakers (which cannot be seen in the photo). I've marked with arrows the speakers I'm using and the Onkyo amplifier.
My Bose audio system is 20 years old but I replaced the central speaker about 10 years ago and it cost me 100 euros.
Unfortunately when I listen to my documentaries, the voice is not good. Yet if I listen to it with 2 cheap studio speakers, I hear an excellent voice because it is recorded with a mic. professional and by a professional speaker.
I had thought about removing ONLY the central speaker and buying two studio speakers and leaving everything else unchanged. What do you think. Maybe I said something rubbish, but I'm only interested in hearing a good voice mixed with background music, but with this system I don't hear it well. But I'm satisfied with the music that comes out. What do you recommend me to do? I have a limited budget. Thanks for some info.

If you are having difficulty with discerning spoken words, the first thing I would do is to make changes to the room to attenuate any sound reflections (echo / reverb type stuff).

Curtains and other furnishings may help with absorbing noise ad minimizing the return echo within the room.

Andrew

Unfortunately when I listen to my documentaries, the voice is not good. Yet if I listen to it with 2 cheap studio speakers, I hear an excellent voice because it is recorded with a mic. professional and by a professional speaker.

First, is the dialog only on the center channel, or is it also on the L/R channels as well? Are these documentaries some that you own on disc, or some that you have created and therefore have the masters? Knowing the answers to these questions might help people give you more direction.

From the picture, I see hard tile flooring and a small rug. This implies that your listening room generates a lot of audio reflections (as hard surfaces do). This in turn can be bad for "intelligibility" of the voice channel(s). Small rooms tend to generate rapid first reflections (commonly called "slap echo") which tends to blur the direct sound and create a sort of "smearing" of the audio. It makes it hard to localize sources in a stereo sound field for example, and tends to smear the consonants in dialog.

Small rooms generally need some level of treatment. Typically small rooms need some amount of absorption, some (different) amount of diffusion, and some bass traps. If you use nothing but absorption you end up with a dead sounding room. If you don't use any bass traps, you end up fighting room modes (nulls and peaks at certain frequencies below, say, 350 Hz). If you use too much diffusion you end up with a room that's too bright and too lively.

So, how to know how much is enough, and how much is too much? You need a computer program like REW (room equalization wizard), a calibrated microphone, and some cables so the computer can play tones through your AVR. It works by the computer playing frequency sweeps and listening to how your room responds through the microphone (at your main listening position). You can then generate graphs on your computer that show you what's actually happening in your room at all the pertinent frequencies. As you add room treatments, you rerun REW and see how what you've added changes the room's response.

Or you know it could be something as simple as your center channel being out of phase with your L/R pair. REW will tell you this too I believe. But so will swapping the ends of the cable at the center channel.

Once you have calmed your room's responses with treatments, you can use a modern AVR to run another software program like Audyssey multeq xt32 which can fine tune your system response to really very flat indeed. But programs like Audyssey, Dirac, ARC, and others are built into AVRs and thus require you to upgrade your AVR to make use of them.

This whole thing of making a room sound good is a large endeavor. Most people seem to do just enough to cure the thing that was making them unable to listen like they wanted, and just stop there. Really, you don't have to make your listening room into a recording studio. And the treatments can be as simple as a bigger rug to cover up more of those tiles, and more furniture in the room, say a mix of upholstered (aka absorption) pieces and things like book shelves with a fair amount of books (aka diffusion).

Well, I've given you enough search terms you can probably find more in-depth discussions as you need them.

I thank you very much for your interesting reply.
I need you explain better. Near that small carpet there is a bigger carpet, then there are the curtains. It's not a soundproof room but it's not bad.

I make my documentaries and I make the video editing. I have the master for every documentary.

I'm thinking to buy one of two speakers Elac DEBUT 2.0 B6.2 or Elac Debut b5.2 and plug it on Central. I will remove the 2 small tweeter. For me the best thing is to listen a good narrative voice in my dicumentaries.
Since I also have a Subwoofer (look at the photo), I think I'll buy Elac Debut b5.2 instead of Elac DEBUT 2.0 B6.2 is enough to listen a good voice. What is your thought?
Thank you again.

If dialog is isolated to the center speaker (as is normally done in 5.1 soundtracks), then the problem is more likely to be the room, or the speaker. If the dialog is spread across the front (L/C/R) as is sometimes done so that dialog can be heard in situations where a center speaker is not available (using the L/R pair to create a "phantom center channel"), your problem could be caused by one or two speakers being out of phase with the others. This will make the dialog sound "hollow" and it will be hard to locate in the room (it will not sound like it's coming from the center speaker as it should). Flipping one end of the speaker wire coming into the various speakers will eventually reveal a fix for that problem too.

So in the first case, a new center channel speaker may help. Elac has a range of center channel speakers, I would tend to use one of those instead of one of their "bookshelf" speakers because of the improved horizontal dispersion, which helps intelligibility. I'd probably push you more toward the Elac Debut Reference Center Speaker – DCR52 (or the less expensive ELAC Debut 2.0 C6.2 Center Channel Speaker – DC62), if it fits where you need it to go. But of course, it's your decision. Whatever you buy, set it up so that it points directly at your ears (you may need to tilt it up or down a bit, as well as pointing it L/R) when you are in your main listening position. This gives you optimal direct sound (maximizes signal to noise (reflections) ratio).

In the second case, dropping the dialog from the L/R pair and letting the center channel carry the load alone will probably help quite a bit. Reflections in a small room are tricky; I like my reflections to have a single source when possible. When L/C/R are all the same signal (but spaced apart) they create three slightly different sets of reflections; things get messy quickly.

Your reply clear many many concepts, but perhaps I have too many gaps. I'm not an expert.
The dialog of my documentaries is always isolated to the center speaker. But I listen a bad narrator voice.
Maybe that center speaker I have (JBL) doesn't communicate well with the 2 very old Bose tweeters. I don't know this, but I am dissatisfied. So I don't think I'll leave the dialogue of my documentaries only in the central speaker. Perhaps by adding 2 more Elac speakers on the Centre, listening could improve. I hope!!

I make my documentaries and I make the video editing. I have the master for every documentary.

I watched one of your documentaries for awhile:

WAYUU a desert tribe of Colombia with amazing traditions - Guajira - YouTube

I am listening on a pair of headphones, Sennheiser HD650s. I don't have actual speakers in my office to compare to -- my wife would object to my noise making ;-)

I think I can hear at least some of what you are complaining about. Starting about 5:08, the interview with the man in the blue shirt. When he is speaking (and is up in the mix where we can easily hear him) he sounds nice and clear. In comparison, I find the narration somewhat muffled. I think this is primarily some amount of roll off of frequencies above, say, 5 kHz. I could easily be wrong, but I think that's what I'm hearing. Consonants, mouth clicks, etc. run up to around 10 kHz; these sounds are clues to the brain that help it translate what the ears are sending to it into phonemes, the parts of human speech that the brain stitches together to get words. I don't hear this lack in the field recorded interview, only in the voice-over narration. I'm wondering if this is part of what you are complaining about.

Yes, the problem is the voice-over narration. But the voice of the doc. that you have listened satisfies me. Now I no longer have that speaker, but I have another one with a more powerful and bigger voice. Now I even struggle to understand the words if the music in the background of the voice is not mixed perfectly. Listen to one of my docs. it got a little stressful because of that.
For this reason I would like to do something to my audio system, but without spending a lot.

Some of the narration sounds ok and some not so good. From what I hear on my reference monitors, most of the music is significantly louder than the narration.
Are you mixing in 5:1 or Stereo,

Stereo only.

Yes, the problem is the voice-over narration. But the voice of the doc. that you have listened satisfies me. Now I no longer have that speaker, but I have another one with a more powerful and bigger voice. Now I even struggle to understand the words if the music in the background of the voice is not mixed perfectly. Listen to one of my docs. it got a little stressful because of that.
For this reason I would like to do something to my audio system, but without spending a lot.

I understand. But I don't think the problem is your audio system. I think it's your signal.

If you've got the masters, you must have the voice over-track. Pull that track into a DAW (digital audio workstation) program and look at the spectrum for the track. You'll probably have to use a shelving EQ on the top end to bring back the attacks on the consonants and the "air" as they call it; the spectrum will tell you where to start and show you how it flattens as you raise the top end. You don't have to make it ruler flat, it should probably slowly roll off above 10-12 kHz -- maybe be 3dB down at 15 kHz? IDK, it's been a long time since I did stuff like this.

A dialog editor can tell you more about what else to do, but this particular voice sounds a bit flat to me so it might need some EQ boost in the range around 2.5 kHz. If you have a parametric equalizer available, use a fairly low value for "Q" to make the bandwidth of the correction more broad and less of a peak. Use only as much boost as you have to so you don't leave any audible artifacts. Maybe 2-3 dB of boost I'm guessing. Maybe a smaller boost (similar) in the low end in the 150-300 Hz range to give him a touch more warmth.

When you get done, swap the corrected track for the old track in your documentary and watch / listen again. Can't hurt to try, and it might save you the time, trouble, and money of buying new speakers.

Buona fortuna, spero di essere stato utile.

Oh yes, you said the mix was stereo only. A new center channel speaker won't help you much at all since the L/R stereo speaker pair are providing a "phantom center" as it is. This is part of your problem (isolating dialog to a mono center channel always sounds better, more solid, than a phantom center can IMHO). But for an independent documentary (which you do quite well) that shows at all kinds of locations (where the sound system is unknown in advance) stereo is probably the safest way to do it. I learned that from guys like you years ago. ;-)

A very interesting video!!!

I think there are really two separate issues: (1.) how should the playback system be changed, and (2.) how can the mix be improved?

** Comments about the playback system:

• All three speakers should be as close as possible to ear level and the same level above the floor. They should be centered (left to right) relative to your listening/mixing position, so the sound from all three arrives at your ears at approximately the same time and volume. Where the heck is your center speaker? If we can't see it, it's certainly going to sound different from the other two ... probably muffled if it's hidden behind something. You want the three of them to sound as similar as possible; you do not want some "special sounding" speaker for the center channel.

• You definitely need to be sure all three speakers are in phase. Be sure the amps are connected identically. If your speaker wires are color-coded (e.g. red and black) this is a quick way to check, but listening tests are of course the final goal.

• Is your playback system equalized at all? How? Where in the chain?

• The narration sounds better on your small, cheap speakers because they reproduce less of the frequencies outside of the voice range, so they will make the voice stand out from the other audio. This makes me suspect that there is a problem with the mix.

• I do agree with other folks' comments about adding some acoustic absorption to the room to lessen reflections. That will help intelligibility *if* the voice is loud enough and properly equalized to begin with.

** Comments about the mix: (I listened to parts of the same video that was referenced by Bruce Watson, so other mixes in other videos might be different.)

• I agree with Mr. Watson's comments about muddiness of narration. In fact a big "AMEN" to all of his detailed suggestions (which he wrote while I was writing this). The narration need some restorative EQ, plus careful gain-riding and/or some gentle compression to keep the levels up.

• At times the narrator speaks in a very "intimate" and "personal" tone of voice, rather than projecting his voice at "normal" level. The intimate tone of voice has a different balance between high and low frequencies, so it sounds even muddier.

• In some spots the voice level is definitely lower than the music level. Listen to how the voice trails off at the end of sentences, for example around 6:40, 6:46, 6:55 (in the latter instance he's whispering). The diction is unclear and the voice level is lower than the music level; of course the narration will be difficult to hear.

• Lots of wind noise in the location audio around 10:20 ... a foam or furry wind screen, and/or HPF would help correct that.

• There's an abrupt upward jump in music level at 13:58. (No narration at this point, but why the abrupt change?)

• Contrast is your friend. Just as the white subtitles would be easier to read over a black shadow, rather than over a gray shadow, greater difference between narration and background audio will make the narration easier to hear and understand.

*** Changing your playback system won't automatically "fix the mix" but it should make it easier for you to hear details like these initially.

All of you are wonderful people, I don't know how to thank you for your precious suggestions. However, I would like to inform you that my original documentaries have different music and much more interesting than what you hear in the video. I had to replace it because of royalties. So I did another very quick video edit and then put a few minutes of the video on YouTube. The videos you see are much less accurate than the originals.

So I could save money by not buying any other speakers, but by adjusting the position of the ones I already have.
Honestly I was thinking of removing the 2 small speakers because I've had them for more than twenty years and maybe putting in something better I thought it would have been better.

Having said that, I would like to point out a video in which the voice is from the same speaker as this video with which I have listening problems. But both voices were recorded in different studios, but always with mic. professional. The other video is this:
https://youtu.be/CeaCozXwxQM

Don't you think I could take a test? Instead of raising the central speaker (the one with the voice) I could sit on the ground to understand if anything changes when listening to the voice.
I honestly don't know how to turn up that center speaker, I don't know where to put it to get a better voice. Look at the photo in the first post. Perhaps this is the main problem. If I were to buy 2 more speakers, I would have the space and height to listen better. But then I don't know if it's a waste of money.

I would like to send you a few minutes of the voice recording. It's the same file as that voice that I hear badly. The 2° file was modified with the equalizer. Please can you tell me which of 2 files is better in your opinion? I would be very grateful to be able to understand better.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bkk9u3eyy0xkuxyq5flya/Toraja-secondo-file-lav.-da-Bernacconi.wav?rlkey=ggormijcwwzy1uxujoxydz6ri&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1utc7999bs94a0ecgtxuf/TORAJA-Lavorato-RAI.wav?rlkey=2j3if3d6bhlk16mornhmei9h1&dl=0

Please, excuse my ignorance regarding audio. I would like to ask a question: I noticed that both the narrator's voice and the music come out of the central speaker. This happens whether the narrative voice is present or not. Is all this normal?

PS: Do you think that moving the central speaker to a higher but decentralized position compared to the TV is better? I would like to place it on the left when looking at the photo, but facing the viewer. Look at the photo attached below.Do you think I will hear my voice better?

Moving your speakers or getting different ones isn't going to change problems with the room's acoustics or in the audio mix, and it sounds like both of those may be occurring.

If the audio is mixed to mono (and the surround system is in 5.1 mode), all the sound is going to come out of the center channel.

[Edit] I just listened to a bit of the two videos linked above. The music is stereo. It "should" be spread across all the speakers while the narration "should" come out of just the center. But parts of the music track are centered (equal level in left and right channels). Those parts would probably come through the center speaker. To keep them out of the center speaker, you would need the audio to be mixed six discrete surround tracks (left, center, right, left surround, right surround, bass).

In a proper surround system, all five main speakers should match, either be identical or have matching timbre (since the surround speakers can be smaller or be dipole). As a minimum, the front three speakers should have matched timbre. If they don't match, there can be a disconnect between the center and the left/right.

If the audio is mixed to mono (and the surround system is in 5.1 mode), all the sound is going to come out of the center channel.

The audio of the voice is stereo and I see all my documentaries in stereo, not in 5.1 mode.
Is it normalI listen music other than the voice in the central speaker?
I hope I didn't mess up the connections between the speakers and the amplifier.

The audio of the voice is stereo and I see all my documentaries in stereo, not in 5.1 mode.
Is it normalI listen music other than the voice in the central speaker?
I hope I didn't mess up the connections between the speakers and the amplifier.

With a stereo audio track, the sound will be divided between all the main speakers. Some of it will come out of the center, but some should come out of the left and right. It depends on where the instrument is panned in the mix. But if all the sound is coming out of the center for all sources, something in your system isn't right.

With a stereo audio track, the sound will be divided between all the main speakers. Some of it will come out of the center, but some should come out of the left and right. It depends on where the instrument is panned in the mix. But if all the sound is coming out of the center for all sources, something in your system isn't right.

To plug a central speaker is so easy. In fact there is a connection for it. For me the sound comes out of both the tweeters and the central speaker in stereo.

Today I did various tests and I noticed that I hear the best narrative voice when I choose the AllCH Stereo option on my Onkyo.
But at this point the voice in the central speaker goes to hell, because I hear everything mixed voice and music in all the speakers. Maybe I'll leave everything like this, because it satisfies me enough, or I'll buy 2 Elac Debut b5.2, hoping that with this AllCH Stereo option I can listen to everything even better. What do you think?

I generally listen to (and mix/master) music in 2.1 mode, which is stereo with a sub, and I watch video in 5.1. Most music sounds better without all the surround processing, but it's nice to have the dialog locked to the center for movies and TV. I'm sure a lot of the TV and movie sound is just stereo, but it works fine. Maybe the 5.1 processing is better in my surround receiver.

You probably don't know the Onkyo TX-NR545. Among the various options I don't see 5.1, I only see the "Surround" option.

PS: If I were to buy 2 Elac Debut b5.2 speakers, to be able to connect them to the Onkyo, would you recommend using a 2 or 4 mm cable?

If the project's audio is 'stereo' with the narration panned to the center (as it should be), the voice and other elements panned to the center, should come out of both the left and right speakers equally and sound as though it is coming from the center.. even if there is no center speaker. This is referred to as 'phantom center'.
If you have your left, right and center speakers wired together in parallel (daisy-chained for instance), that can create all kinds of phase issues and other problems.
If your speaker set-up is 5:1 surround, there is usually six separate outputs from the amp(s) going to the speakers: Left, Center, Right. rear Left, rear Right and the LFE (Low Frequency Effects) output for the sub-woofer.

I would like to send you a few minutes of the voice recording. It's the same file as that voice that I hear badly. The 2° file was modified with the equalizer. Please can you tell me which of 2 files is better in your opinion? I would be very grateful to be able to understand better.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bkk9u3eyy0xkuxyq5flya/Toraja-secondo-file-lav.-da-Bernacconi.wav?rlkey=ggormijcwwzy1uxujoxydz6ri&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1utc7999bs94a0ecgtxuf/TORAJA-Lavorato-RAI.wav?rlkey=2j3if3d6bhlk16mornhmei9h1&dl=0

The second one is much improved and easier to listen to IMHO. But they are two different voice-overs (or from two different places in the same voice-over maybe? IDK), and they have different loudness levels. So it's hard to be definitive. What I'm hearing though is more clarity. Which is what I think you want.

It's been long enough since I did this kind of work I didn't even think to mention applying some compression to the voice-over track. I think someone else did. Just about any dialog track benefits from some compression just because people run out of breath toward the end of a sentence. That is, they speak louder at the beginning of a sentence and softer at the end, simply because they are running out of breath. Compression makes this less noticeable, which in turn makes it less work for the listener to understand what the narrator is saying.

All that said, I think there's another complicating factor here -- and that's the difference between a stereo mix and a surround sound mix. A straight up stereo mix is fine, but it has no center channel. All it has is the two L/R channels. One can play a stereo signal on a surround sound system, and nearly all surround sound systems will, by default, use all the speakers available to play those two stereo channels. But just because the surround sound system is using the center speaker doesn't mean that you provided a true center channel to it. You did not. You only provided a L/R stereo mix; the surround sound system then "up-mixed" your stereo signal into its estimate of what would sound pleasing from a 5.1 system. In other words, your surround system is making stuff up -- based on your stereo mix. This is similar but different from the way a 4k television up-samples a DVD signal -- it's interpolating new pixels to "make up for" the lower resolution of the DVD.

If you walk from one speaker to the next, putting your head next to each speaker, you will hear the voice-over coming from at least the front three speakers. And also the music, from all three speakers. Because the surround system can't extract the voice over from your stereo mix. Only you can do that. Asking an algorithm to extract your voice-over from your stereo mix is like asking it to extract the salt from a cake you already baked.

If you want the voice-over to come only from the center channel, you will have to do at least a proper 5.1 surround sound mix and supply all five channels -- L/C/R/LS/RS. If you put your voice-over track only on the center channel, your surround system playback will give you your voice-over from the center channel only.

I'm just saying that part of the confusion here might be expecting to hear the voice-over only on a center channel from a stereo mix. That will only happen if the source is a surround sound mix, not a stereo mix.

I start to understand better. In your opinion, is it better to record the narrator voice in mono or stereo when recording with a professional microphone in Studio?

If the project's audio is 'stereo' with the narration panned to the center (as it should be), the voice and other elements panned to the center, should come out of both the left and right speakers equally and sound as though it is coming from the center.. even if there is no center speaker. This is referred to as 'phantom center'.

If you were me, you would record the narrator voice in mono or stereo when recording with a professional microphone in Studio?

I start to understand better. In your opinion, is it better to record the narrator voice in mono or stereo when recording with a professional microphone in Studio?

Mono. Pan to center in your stereo mix.

Now I stop to ask, sorry for my insistence.
Last question, if I buy 2 Elac DEBUT 2.0 B6.2, can I use also the subwoofer that I have on the ground or should I disable it?

We keep jumping around with new questions added before the old ones are answered.

I have a simple mind. Let's understand a few things simply.

1.) You keep talking about "tweeters." By this do you mean the left front and right front speaker? ("Tweeter" means a speaker that reproduces only higher frequencies. Depending on the system, this might start as low as 500 Hz, but much more likely starts from about 1,000 Hz and upward.) If you're talking about left front and right front speakers, for the sake of clarity call them that, or LF and RF.

2.) Please tell us the make and model number of those LF and RF speakers.

3.) You mentioned earlier that the (front) center speaker is not visible in your photo. Where is it? What is the make and model number?

4.) Also, in an earlier post I suggested that all three speakers ideally should be at the same elevation, roughly the elevation of the listener's ears. As far as I've been aware (for the past 60+ years) loudspeakers are somewhat directional. Therefore, ideally, the listener's ears should be roughly on axis of the speakers. If the speakers are sitting on a flat shelf (i.e. not tilted upward or downward) that means ideally they should be roughly at the same elevation as the listener's ears. I certainly think you can't go wrong with this placement. It will help eliminate delay/phasing issues when trying to evaluate a mix. Does someone want to disagree? If so, based on what?

(By the way, Adriano, you asked about sitting on the floor, to get your ears lower. That problem is that you can get a lot of reflections from the floor, so ideally you want neither the speakers nor your ears to be too close to the floor [or to the ceiling, either]. I think a good elevation is normal seating position, where your ears are probably ~1 meter above the floor. Your video display screen is roughly at eye level, right? Why not take the same amount of care with the audio? I probably wouldn't be as concerned about this, but since you keep wanting to change your playback system, I can't help feeling that we should get things as close as possible before spending any money.)

1.) You keep talking about "tweeters." By this do you mean the left front and right front speaker? ("Tweeter" means a speaker that reproduces only higher frequencies. Depending on the system, this might start as low as 500 Hz, but much more likely starts from about 1,000 Hz and upward.) If you're talking about left front and right front speakers, for the sake of clarity call them that, or LF and RF.
Yes, I mean those small Bose cubes.


2.) Please tell us the make and model number of those LF and RF speakers.
There isn't the model on 2 Bose cubes, but they are around 20 years old.


3.) You mentioned earlier that the (front) center speaker is not visible in your photo. Where is it? What is the make and model number?
I didn't write it, I wrote I have "2 rear speakers (which cannot be seen in the photo)". If you look at the pic I attached on the first post, you wiill see every speaker I'm using in front.
Anyway the 2 speaker you can't see are Yamaha attached to the walls dx and sx. But I can't read the model. The central speaker is JBL ES25C. It is a three-way speaker. I bought it around 9-10 years ago and I paid it around 140 euro. Then I have a subwoofer on the ground and it is Yamaha YST-SW012 and if I remember well I paid it around 150 euro.


4.) Also, in an earlier post I suggested that all three speakers ideally should be at the same elevation, roughly the elevation of the listener's ears. As far as I've been aware (for the past 60+ years) loudspeakers are somewhat directional.
I did a test by temporarily turning up the speakers and I heard the audio of my documentaries better. I will do it later permanently, even if it is almost impossible for me to raise the central speaker.

English is not my mother tongue. Thanks for your patience.

https://i.postimg.cc/BQjd2HFk/TV-con-frecce.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vcdqs13t)
https://i.postimg.cc/tCztNg3G/Onkyo-TX-NR545-posteriore.jpg

Adriano,

Thanks for all the details. I apologize for mis-reading or mis-remembering what you said earlier about your speakers. It is more clear now.

I am not too familiar with the Bose brand of speakers. I think Bose's goal, in general, was to get "better than average" sound from "smaller than average" enclosures. Some of the early models were quite unusual. I have tried to find some information online about the small cubes that you have. What I am about to say is not from my own knowledge, it's just a summary of what I could find online, so forgive me if it's wrong. Maybe another forum member knows more details about them. And you'll see I have more questions for you.

Apparently the cubes are not full-range speakers. In particular they do not reproduce low frequencies ... they are perhaps good only as low as ~200Hz. (I still won't call them "tweeters" because 200Hz is below what we normally call "midrange." But since they're not full-range either, maybe it is best just to call them "cubes.") It seems that the cubes were part of an overall system that had its own Bose subwoofer (or perhaps I should say "woofer" without the "sub"). Both output channels of the stereo amplifier were connected to the Bose woofer. The woofer cabinet contained crossover wiring, which sent the low frequencies to a larger driver in the woofer cabinet; it sent the higher frequencies (above ~200Hz) to the two cubes. Without the special Bose woofer, the cubes would not sound correct on their own.

So (again remembering that this might not be the correct info for your particular speakers) I need to ask specifically: Is this the kind of system you have? Is that a Bose woofer that I see sitting on the shelf? And are your cubes connected directly to your amplifier, or are they connected directly to the Bose woofer (if that is what you have)?

I think before saying much more about speakers, it's important to understand the above details.

Again I apologize for my confusion, and thanks for your patience with all these questions.

So (again remembering that this might not be the correct info for your particular speakers) I need to ask specifically: Is this the kind of system you have? Is that a Bose woofer that I see sitting on the shelf? And are your cubes connected directly to your amplifier, or are they connected directly to the Bose woofer (if that is what you have)?
Yes, you are right. The two small Bose cubes were part of a audio system. In fact there was also a subwoofer. I don't remember if there was also a central speaker, but I don't think it. But over time they broke and I replaced them with other speakers. However, only high frequencies come out of the 2 cubes. That woofer you see on the shelf is a Bose woofer but it is broken and now I use the Yamaha you see on the ground. In the photo that I posted in the first post there are arrows only on the speakers that I am using now. The Bose cubes are connected directly to my amplifier.


Again I apologize for my confusion, and thanks for your patience with all these questions.
I'm sorry if I only have 2 ears because I wish I had 4 ears to hear you better. jejejeeje I thank you!

Thank you for providing the additional info about your system! Now I understand even more.

To talk more about the history of the Bose company. Some of their early speakers used only fairly small drivers. Normally these would not produce very strong bass. The lower frequencies would "roll off" (get weaker as the frequency got lower) as one would expect with those small drivers. So Bose included special electronics, which boosted the bass in a way just the opposite of the drivers' rolloff. That somewhat restored the bass, although it introduced other problems.

In a way your original cube system was a bit better, because at least it admitted the need for a real woofer. But the question is this: exactly how did the electronics in the woofer affect the signal fed to the cubes? If you don't know that, and don't have a proper equalizer (made by someone other than Bose) then the new system (the cubes plus your new woofer) will never have the correct frequency response. So, when you listen to a mix to evaluate it, what you hear will be different from what other people (with more proper speakers) will hear.

Right now, you have a little bit of bass coming from the cubes (although at a fairly soft level). You have more bass coming from the sub in the corner. And more coming from the center speaker. Are all those things in phase? (I would not be surprised if the center speaker is out of phase with the others!) Do they have a correct frequency response? If all this stuff isn't correct, it could be part of the reason your system sounds muddy.

Now that I know all these details, I do agree with your original thought. If you want to make any changes to your system, the Bose cubes would be a good place to improve! I am an old-school guy myself. I tend to like JBLs for mixing & listening. JBL makes a lot of professional speakers for theatre and music performance use, so I trust their smaller monitor speakers. I think a lot of albums and a lot of movies were mixed using JBL monitors ... they are professional speakers. I am *not* telling you to buy JBL, but I definitely would avoid "home" brands like Bose. Also, I know that speaker prices vary widely depending on the country where they're made and the country where they're bought. So I don't know what would be a good price/performance choice for you. I'm sure some other forum members with European experience can give you better advice than I could.

Now, I hope I won't bore you, but I'll come back to the detail of speaker location. When you watched a movie in a big conventional theatre, did you think about the speaker location? You might already know that the speakers are *behind* the screen. Professional projection screens are perforated, so the sound can come through the thousands of holes to reach the audience. The speakers are neither below the screen nor above it. They are roughly the middle of the screen height. So, again, for your mixing/listening room, I'm going to suggest that you try to position these new, better speakers so they are roughly the middle of the height of your video screen ... about the same height as your ears. (Yes, I see your photo, you have a beautiful huge screen. And I like the way you have connected the shelf units together to get more useful space. I know what I suggest won't be simple. I can only say honestly that I think it will let you hear your new speakers as they should be heard.)

Then for the time being turn off the center speaker. And make sure the subwoofer (in the corner) is not too loud. I think you will be much happier with your new sound!

My earlier suggestions were a bit generic because I wasn't considering the specific equipment you had. Some of the Bose speakers of the type you seem to have were adequate for casual listening, but I wouldn't rely on them to make important decisions about sound quality. Given that, I do suggest replacing them. But I strongly recommend getting matched speakers, at least the front three. Many manufacturers make specific center channel speakers that go with speakers they make for left/right, different but compatible. The speakers need to have matching tonal qualities, and it's helpful if the sensitivity specifications are similar (so they play at about the same volume).

Attached photos are of my speakers. My rear speakers are currently not matched to the front, but I plan to replace them fairly soon to have a complete matched set (aside from the subwoofer).

Oopssss, I was convinced and was about to buy 2 Elac DEBUT 2.0 B6.2. At this point I stop and I don't know what to do anymore. My center speaker is a JBL. In my humble opinion I don't think there are 2 JBL speakers that sound as good as the 2 Elac DEBUT 2.0 B6.2 with the same price. Maybe I'm wrong.

In short, however, I understand that if I were to buy 2 good front speakers, I have to disable the front channel and as Greg says, I hope I can also make the subwoofer work in an attenuated way, even if it is Yamaha.

Now I just have a little doubt. I remember that you recommended the Elac DEBUT 2.0 B6.2 the sound is more enveloping, but.... if the subwoofer works well, perhaps it is better that I buy the Elac Debut b5.2 because I have read that it provides better quality of the mid tones and high tones . Maybe it's better for the narrative voice or is this insignificant?
Thanks again for your availability.

Matching the sub is not as important as matching the center channel speaker to the main pair. It's more about placement and level setting (and perhaps polarity and delay).

I think going without the center channel is a reasonable option. A basic 2.1 system with good speakers is more useful than a 5.1 system with mediocre speakers.

I think I will get 4.1 because I will not disable the rear speakers.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But again I'm a bit confused ...

In post #10 you said you mix in stereo only. But in post #6 you said the dialog is always isolated to the center speaker.

If you are mixing in stereo, there is no actual center channel to your mix, just left and right. So what do you mean by the word "isolated" in post #6?

And also, if you mix in stereo only, why do you need two rear speakers?

Please, let's finish it here. I don't want to steal your precious time. My bad English doesn't allow me to explain myself well and I'm also too poor in my audio knowledge.

However, having said that, I will answer your questions.
In post 6 I said that currently I have the narrated voice in the central speaker and always isolated from the music. But then checking more closely, I realized that in addition to the voice coming out powerfully, some music also came out. Onnkyo's configuration is AllCH Stereo.
When in post 10 I replied: "Stereo only", but I was referring to the AllCH Stereo and not the Surround. I thought 5.1 was Surround.
Maybe your word "mixing" confused me because I didn't understand the word well in English. I am saddened by this.

However, if I have to be honest, I don't know and can't know how enveloping the audio will be with the two new and better speakers using them in Stereo. I like to be surrounded by voice and music to obtain a better presence effect in the scene. I also like to listen to some light live sound or music in the back. So I don't know if I'll be satisfied with just Stereo.
In a few days, when I have the 2 new speakers, I will do some tests by changing the various listening options in Onkyo: AllCH Stereo, Stereo, Full Mono, Theater, etc. etc.

Honestly, I don't even know what I can listen to if I leave the central channel active. For me any option will be a new thing, when I have the 2 new speakers.
I'll see what to do.
Now I just have to wait and check.
I apologize and I am enormously ashamed because perhaps I cannot make myself understood.

Adriano,

I'm certainly sorry if this has become an unhappy experience. You have nothing to be ashamed about. Your English is exceptionally good! If you hadn't said so, it would be hard to guess that English is a second language. Learning languages has always been very difficult for me, so that I almost couldn't graduate from college. I admire your ability!

Language is not always accurate. Words with old meanings are now being used with multiple audio meanings. "Mixed" is a good example. I asked questions only so I could understand the process you are using. The questions did *not* criticize your language at all.

My time is not precious. If it would be helpful, I would be glad to talk about this more, at any time that you want to. But I do not want to cause you any frustration. Besides, you've made a choice so you will be able to observe what happens.

If Google is correct, then I want to say "Alla prossima!"
Greg

Good morning,
the new speakers will arrive in two days and I would like to ask a question about the connection to the Onkyo amplifier. When I plug the 2 cables of one speaker to L (red and black- look at the pic), is L the left of the person watching the TV or the left of the TV?

Then .... I will not use the central channel but out of curiosity:
If I wanted to do a test and have the voice come out of the central speaker, which Menu option should I choose in my Onkyo amplifier? Maybe should I choose "Surround"? Is this the only way I can get the narrative voice to come out of the central speaker?
Thank you.

LEFT is looking at the TV screen (or the front of the LCR speaker cabinets).
If you want dialog only in the center speaker, it would need to be mixed in 5:1 with the voice assigned to the center.only. What DAW (or video NLE) do you use for mixing audio?
If want to listen to a stereo mix on only the center speaker, you would have to disconnect the LCR speakers cables and re-connect the L-R speaker cables to the center speaker. Leaving the L-R speakers disconnected. No easy way that I am aware of with the consumer amp. Recording studios typically have six discreet channel feeds and power amp channels (or 5 powered speakers and a sub) woofer for mixing. The 5:1 mix is then encoded along with the video or encoded separately and 'muxed' in after the video picture file is rendered.

LEFT is looking at the TV screen (or the front of the LCR speaker cabinets).
If you want dialog only in the center speaker, it would need to be mixed in 5:1 with the voice assigned to the center.only. What DAW (or video NLE) do you use for mixing audio?

I use Edius for video editing. I can manage audio channels without problem.
I already knew that I need 5.1 option with the voice assigned to the center only but what I don't understand which Menu do I have to choose in my Onkyo TX-NR545. Cables are ON on the read of it, but its options are: options in Onkyo: AllCH Stereo, Stereo, Full Mono, Theater, Pure voice, etc. etc. I don't see 5.1.

AllCh Stereo spreads a 2-channel stereo input across all the speakers. I would not use this.

Direct takes whatever format is given and puts it in the same number of speakers (2 speakers for stereo input, 5 plus the sub for 5.1 channel audio input). I would use this to check stereo mixes on a stereo system.

Dolby Surround "up-mixes" stereo signals to 5.1. This is what I would use to check my stereo mixes on a surround system.

Are you telling me I should use "Surround" to get the voice out of the central channel? But should I choose Surround on Onkyo even if I have a file worked with Edius in Stereo?

Are you telling me I should use "Surround" to get the voice out of the central channel? But should I choose Surround on Onkyo even if I have a file worked with Edius in Stereo?

Yes, that appears to be how the settings work in that Onkyo. I currently use a Denon, but my last three receivers were Onkyo, covering the time from stereo to the original Dolby Surround to Dolby Pro Logic. The Pro Logic unit would take stereo input and distribute it to a 5.1 speaker setup, which is basically what you want for checking things in surround. The AllCh setting will also distribute a stereo signal across a 5.1 speaker setup, but not in a way that produces a proper surround image with the voiceover in the center speaker and the stereo music in the left and right speakers etc. It will basically put everything everywhere.

I'm doing some tests with the new spekers. So I went into the Onkyo Menu and saw these entries, but I didn't change them, because I'm afraid of making a mistake. Please inform me that I would like to use only the Stereo speakers. I'd like to use only frontal speakers in Stereo.
The entries are:
1) Should Music OTP be ON or OFF?
Should ACCU EQ be ON or OFF?
thrn I saw:
Subwoofer +2
Center 0
PM LOW OFF
C SPEAD OFF

I know that everything is objective, but how do you think you would configure these entries?

I'm doing some tests with the new spekers. So I went into the Onkyo Menu and saw these entries, but I didn't change them, because I'm afraid of making a mistake. Please inform me that I would like to use only the Stereo speakers. I'd like to use only frontal speakers in Stereo.
The entries are:
1) Should Music OTP be ON or OFF?
Should ACCU EQ be ON or OFF?
thrn I saw:
Subwoofer +2
Center 0
PM LOW OFF
C SPEAD OFF

I know that everything is objective, but how do you think you would configure these entries?

I couldn't find anything in the manual about OTP.

AccuEQ is an automatic equalization feature. In my experience, such corrections to the system eq are best done by an experienced human with more sophisticated tools than what is likely inside the receiver. I would turn that off.

"Subwoofer +2" probably refers to the subwoofer level compared to the other speakers. That will be different for different combinations of subwoofers and left/right/center speakers. I adjust my subwoofer level by ear using the controls on the subwoofer while playing music I'm familiar with.

C SPREAD distributes the center channel audio across all the front speakers. I wouldn't do that if you're using a center channel speaker, but it might happen automatically if you disable the center channel in the receiver's menu.

C SPREAD distributes the center channel audio across all the front speakers. I wouldn't do that if you're using a center channel speaker, but it might happen automatically if you disable the center channel in the receiver's menu.

Therefore do I have to put it on OFF?

Therefore do I have to put it on OFF?

Yes, I would turn it off.