Hi. I am planning to build a cyclorama and am budgeting for lights.
The room will be 40' deep by about 29.5' wide.
The U-shaped cyc will extend out about 20' on the floor.
Height about 16'.
So the cyc will be approx 29.5w x 20d x 16h.
I will likely paint it half white and half green because I cannot figure out any other way to do both. When I need a larger scene I'll paint it all green or white.

I want some ceiling mounted lights to light the cyc and backlights/hairlights and then I will use my existing lights for talent. Some type of space light looks to be a nice even soft solution but I have never used them or even know how many I would need? Or some 1x4 or 1x2 panels? Or ?

Might as well take a look at Anthem One https://anthemone.com/

Lighting is my weak spot, but these look just so nice.

Andrew

Anthem One do look nice, but don’t seem to have anything to do with cyc/screen lighting.

I’m assuming that one purpose is head to toe shots on white or green. Indeed, space lights have become the standard where ceiling height is sufficient. Few cycs are built in low-ceilinged rooms because the lighting becomes more complex.

Space lights are now available in LED, and there are a few knockoffs. I’ve only had experience with the older tungsten Mole-Richardson, but we’re about to set up some LED M-Rs.

I’m sure there is a way to compute coverage if you don’t have someone with experience to inform your design. You might reach out to manufacturers’ tech/sales support.

I’m also seeing people using Arri Light Panels, 1x1s, 1x2s, kinos, etc., lots of alternatives, some may need position/aim/focus to achieve what space lights do so easily.

Then you’re on to the classic methods to get easy and good keys: Keeping your subject well in front of the wall, lighting them independently of the screen lights, lighting them to match the background plate, having backlights available to wash out spill, and testing your keys as you go.

P.S. When you’re shooting white you’ll need to control illumination from the green wall - you don’t want that polluting skin tones!

Per this page (scroll down) https://anthemone.com/pages/technical-specifications, the Anthem One beam is 160° at source.

Again, I'm hardly a lighting expert. But these look super nice and seem to work very well with an even distribution of light and no hotspot. My only other suggestion is to look at the lighting setups of other facilities.

Andrew

The anthems are point source lights. To make them shadowless means diffuser, extra standoffs and loss of light. They’re lovely and expensive. Cyc lighting needs big source area and the total opposite of point source. Little creases vanish with big sources and point sources make tiny creases into huge ones.

Lighting falls into simple categories. Really hard sources, which means sharp shadows and shape projection. We then have Fresnel lenses fixtures that theatre people call soft and TV people call hard. The create shadows, but shadows with soft edges and Fresnels blend with others really well so they sort of cross fade when focussed properly. Then we have soft sources - the older tubular lamped fixtures with asymmetric reflectors that have big openings and have much gentler shadow creation at a distance, and the modern LED versions have similar properties. Lastly we have the very big light sources. Usually with space inside and a large diffusing surface that produce hardly any shadows. A number of these become space lights a shadowless very even result.

For Cycs and floors you want lights from this end of the range. Trying to soften fixtures at the other end is wasteful of light and is rarely successful.

…Again, I'm hardly a lighting expert. But…
I suppose that I am a lighting expert in this area, having done hundreds of green screen setups in dozens of studios/locations, and having designed three studio buildouts to support green screen. I also created the initial curriculum for a college course on green screen shooting and compositing.

Paul J has the right of it in soft (large) sources for screen lighting. Although hard/point sources can be used to light the screen behind a head and shoulders shot, anything larger is easier and much better with large soft sources. Head to toe shots absolutely demand a lot (a lot!) of soft diffused light from multiple large sources.

Lighting design is absolutely key to later compositing.

The other key concepts are lighting subjects independently from the screen, and using distance from the subject to the screen to lessen green spill. Head to toe is especially challenging since part of your subject is in contact with the screen; the lighting has to be great, and you’ll still be doing more moving masks in post than you want! (I want to do zero moving masks.)

My own projects improved dramatically when testing keys became affordable on every studio shoot. I’m now working on developing real-time testing/compositing in game engines (Unity, Unreal Engine), which allow us to place people in 3D space - with a live camera feed. Here’s a great example (not my work), compositing took place live - this is one take with minimal or no post (link). ( https://vimeo.com/513291610)

Space Lights are a studio standard for green screen and white limbo for good reason. You *will* see their signature barrel shape show up in behind-the-scenes pix and clips!

My studio space suffers from less than ideal height so the depth of space lights I can’t do. I have horizontal rows of panels and a foot from the cloth a finger pointing up can just be seen moving, so the cloth is even and bright. I have to be really careful with my keys because they can cast shadows, and I often end up using a second to fill in the shadow I created. If I had the height, I’d do it do much better!

Thank you everyone. Looks like spacelites are a good choice. Does only Mole Richardson make them?
Seems there are affordable high power tungsten ones and expensive LED versions. I'm trying to determine cost so I can budget it in
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=spacelites&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma

AFAIK Mole is the sole supplier of “space lights”.

Alternatives include various lanterns and pancake lanterns. There are lantern diffusion modifiers that one would use with (nearly) any open-face fixture. Be aware that some of the lanterns on this page are for flash only (link) ( https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Lantern&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=hist-ma).

I’d caution you against low-power tungsten sources below 2KW (1KW?).

There are 400W LED sources on the page you linked, I generally use a multiplier of 8.5x to 10x for light output of an LED vs. output of a tungsten fixture. Which would have the 400W LED space lights in the neighborhood of equivalent to a 3800W tungsten source.

In a standard softbox one is usually concerned about the light spilling everywhere. This is the point of a space light, lantern, or pancake lantern, you want diffuse light to the sides and down. This lights the screen and provides base light for subjects. Base light is like fill with much wider coverage. Depending on the design, you may only need to add key and back light for subjects.

An on the cheap approach would be big CFLs in medium paper lanterns… you’d need a lot of them!

Thank you again.
The tungsten space lights I was looking at were
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search/BI/2855/KBID/3801 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801)
The 1000W quartz is affordable but like you said maybe too weak/not advisable. The 6000w quartz is bright but looks like a furnace. I can't imagine the heat and power draw for a row of those.
Are 400w LED fixtures bright enough for a ~16' high screen?

What do you think about these 700W and 800W LED fixtures?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1497830-REG/dracast_cb7000sb_cinebrite_700w_bi_color_space.html/overview/BI/2855/KBID/3801 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1497830-REG/dracast_cb7000sb_cinebrite_700w_bi_color_space.html/overview/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801)
https://www.amazon.com/Dracast-DRSPACE8000-Space-Light-Bi-Color/dp/B08N9V7NFJ/din02c-20/din02c-20/din02c-20
They seem to be affordable and power manageable?

1,000 watts may or may not work. Perhaps there are rentals available in your area?

I’ve not speced by published light outputs and volume/distance, though that can be done. Mine has been the school of experience, which suggests that you need wide apertures or higher gain at lower wattages. Either can be bad for the sharp and noise-free edges you want for clean keys.

I was not aware of the Dracast space lights - they look great! That Cinebrite 8000 is a ton of light - you might only need a half-ton :)

Power and heat is a big deal of course. Anything over 2000w of tungsten typically requires an electrician and potential upgrades from your local power co, depending. And, four 2000w tungsten lights will throw off a *lot* of heat!

You could also add a lantern-style diffuser to any high-output LED panel, possibly custom sewn.

It looks like I’ll have some hands-on opportunities with the Mole LED space lights in late September, which I’m very much looking forward to.

Thanks again.
I like the Mole LED fixtures for sure but they cost a lot more, especially when buying several fixtures. So I was hoping the Dracast 8000 lights might be good enough and save some money.

Draast 8000
25° at 3000K:
1309.9 fc / 14,100 Lux at 6.56' / 2 m
247.1 fc / 2660 Lux at 16.4' / 5 m
82.3 fc / 886 Lux at 29.53' / 9 m
25° at 5600K:
2638.4 fc / 28,400 Lux at 6.56' / 2 m
494.2 fc / 5320 Lux at 16.4' / 5 m
165.4 fc / 1780 Lux at 29.53' / 9 m
Dracast 8000
@3000K(without Skirt)---11500 LUX @ 9ft, 4800 LUX @ 15ft, 2400 LUX @ 21ft
@3000K(with Skirt)---1900 LUX @ 9ft, 800 LUX @ 15ft, 400 LUX @ 21ft
@6200K(withourt Skirt)---11600 LUX @ 9ft, 4500 LUX @ 15ft, 2300 LUX @ 21ft
@6200K(with Skirt)---1800 LUX 9ft, 800 LUX @ 15ft, 400 LUX @ 21ft

https://dracobroadcast.com/product/dracast-space-light-8000-bicolor/

I certainly won't be buying any lights til black friday or later so I'll be listening to any input and sales in the coming months

... has been the school of experience, which suggests that you need wide apertures or higher gain at lower wattages. Either can be bad for the sharp and noise-free edges you want for clean keys.

... That Cinebrite 8000 is a ton of light - you might only need a half-ton :)

.

That's why I'm trying to get lights bright enough so my cameras won't need to gain up or run wide apertures. The only thing I have to go on right now is published specs to try to determine what is enough output and how many I need.

That ton/half ton of light comment made me laugh. I'm hoping for half-ton for price and heat :)

Would a simple DMX controller like this suffice?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1039676-REG/elation_professional_sdc12_12_channel_basic_dmx.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1039676-REG/elation_professional_sdc12_12_channel_basic_dmx.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801)

Looks like I will have a small corner cyc (might use 3 spacelights for it TBD) and a considerably larger U-shaped cyc at the opposing end of the room. So either one or the other would be used at a time. One controller for each cyc?
I'm not sure yet how many spacelights I need for the bigger cyc space (maybe 7 or less hopefully?) so we probably aren't talking about a lot of fixtures.
I just need ability to dim/adjust fixtures from the floor without having to climb up a ladder for each one