I really like the blue sunlight look, like you see in movies like this example:

Drug War (2012) - Something's Wrong Scene (1/10) | Movieclips - YouTube

I tried doing it by turning my color temperature down to 3200 kelvin more around, until the sun became blue enough, but when I do that, peoples faces come out magenta of course. But in that clip, they manage to keep the magenta skin toned quite down, yet keep the sunlight quite blue at the same time. Does anyone know how they did it by any chance?

The video is unavailable, so I can't comment on it.

Given the number of techniques now available, you can do that type of stuff in post with Resolve and other software. You could just replace the real sun with CGI blue one, that would give you more control over an object which is beyond the dynamic range of camera sensors.

Depending on the shot, you could just put blue grad filter in front of the lens.

Again, depending on the shot, you could use large tungsten lights (10k for example) on the foreground and flag off the light from the sun and sky from the people. .

A green screen shot is another method.

Oh okay. Well the scene is a chase scene though, from the movie Drug War (2012). Since it's a chase, they I don't think it could have been a green screen because they would have had to have a really huge one that would cover a couple of hundred meters for the extremely wide shots of the chase. But maybe.

I think using tungsten lights wouldn't have been powerful enough, unless you can light an entire city street in wide shots with tungsten that is powerful enough to overpower the entire sun?

I don't think it was CGI, because the sunlight is shining on the actors faces, unless you can put CGI light on faces, without having to go through a frame by frame process, which I don't think they would have done.

It may be a blue filter in front of the lens, but that would cause skin to turn magenta, which they somenow avoided, and I am not sure how they avoided that though.

With a grad (graduated) filter only part of the frame is made blue. They face won;t turn blue if the clear part is on their faces.

Looking at the trailer it looks like it was done in post using correction correction software e.g. Resolve. It's one of those things you can do with it, if you know what you're doing. "Drug Wars" was shot on film and has a digital intermediate, so lots of possibilities for this type of work.

I think this is going over old ground for you,

As I can't see what you can, I won't comment, but if you are planning anything, you remove the possibles that are impossible due to practical or economic things. Nowadays folk believe you can do anything in post, and with time and money you can.

Oh okay. Well in Resolve you can use the qualifier to separate the skin so it doesn't come out magenta. However, there is still blue sunlight shining on their faces. So I guess they separated the skin in every frame, accept for the parts of their faces that were lit, which were left separate from the qualifier?

On a production like that they will have the time and staff numbers to do the required work. They'll also be more skilled than you and may possibly have additional software to assist in procedures like that.

Also, they may not be using Resolve, since there are other correction programs available.

I had to pretend to be in Canada to see the video, and it wasn't at all what I expected - just a rather odd blue tinge to a grey sky - I've got a gazillion presets in Premiere to emulate quite odd stuff like that. I certainly would not want to make a 'look' like that. For those who can't cheat their country, I've attached the stills.

Oh okay. Sorry about the video not being available outside of Canada, I didn't know. I found another scene on youtube, but not sure if this video is available outside of Canada either. I'm just going by clips I found:

Drug War (2012) - They're All Cops Scene (7/10) | Movieclips - YouTube

Well in Premiere for example, I can tint the sunlight blue, but if I do that, people's faces go magenta. The movie was able to get blue sunlight while avoiding this, but did they avoid the magenta faces from happening?

That video doesn't work either, I assume it has the same territory limitation,

As mentioned, that involves using more sophisticated colour correction software than Premiere. You can isolate areas and do complex changes if you've got the right software and you know how to use it.

I would suggest that you take a course in advanced colour correction if you plan to do this. You won't learn it by asking questions on a forum, like many things, you need to actually do it and make lots of mistakes.

Oh okay. Sorry about the video not being available outside of Canada, I didn't know. I found another scene on youtube, but not sure if this video is available outside of Canada either. I'm just going by clips I found:

Drug War (2012) - They're All Cops Scene (7/10) | Movieclips - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s37owQJdelU)

Well in Premiere for example, I can tint the sunlight blue, but if I do that, people's faces go magenta. The movie was able to get blue sunlight while avoiding this, but did they avoid the magenta faces from happening?
It must be one of those dumb digital rights thing like they did with dvd. Splitting the world into zones: North America, Europe and Asia. I can see it. You have to film with a camera in more than 8 bit color depth and then like Paul is saying you need the skill to color grade it in a program like DaVinci Resolve.

Oh okay but in the clip, there is still blue sunlight shining on the side of the face. So do they keep that separate from the rest of the face when isolating the skin color?

I've tried isolating the skin, but I get a lot of noise problems when I do it in Resolve. Is this because of the 8 bit color depth, or is it just a matter of practicing with the tool? Do I really need more than 8 bit, if I can get really good at it?

Oh okay but in the clip, there is still blue sunlight shining on the side of the face. So do they keep that separate from the rest of the face when isolating the skin color?

I've tried isolating the skin, but I get a lot of noise problems when I do it in Resolve. Is this because of the 8 bit color depth, or is it just a matter of practicing with the tool? Do I really need more than 8 bit, if I can get really good at it?
8bit isn't for color grading and stop trying to copy commercial movies. You don't have the budget or skills. You should have bought a black magic pocket camera years ago. Not that it would make you a better director (broken record).

Oh well I figure why buy a new camera, when I am going to get a DP for projects anyway, who may have their own camera, or may want to use something different? Unless I should still by my own, even if a DP is going to be using it likely? As for copying commercial movies, I just go by movies I like the look or feel of. Should I try to copy the look of other movies?

Ryan, sometimes you want to simulate things that frankly look poor. Your walls colour thing, now this. You are seeking to use difficult to achieve effects, when you repeatedly cannot understand basics. I am constantly amazed by what the built in tools can now do in our software. If the sky is the brightest part of the scene, it's quite easy to set this as the highlight so you can tweak that leaving the lower levels untouched. Do you understand how your editing software works? Sometimes I wonder!

If you're going in for heavy duty colour correction you need to get a decent camera that either records a heavy duty codec or RAW. It's pointless you even doing the tests in a serious manner unless you have the right kit. If you don't, complaining about noise only really deserves a "what else do you expect" response.

The BlackMagic cameras are the probably cheapest.cameras for doing this.

If you're planning to do the colour correction on this feature film yourself, be serious about the whole thing and go on a course. At the moment, you're just playing around sticking things up on a forum.

Oh well I figure why buy a new camera, when I am going to get a DP for projects anyway, who may have their own camera, or may want to use something different? Unless I should still by my own, even if a DP is going to be using it likely? As for copying commercial movies, I just go by movies I like the look or feel of. Should I try to copy the look of other movies?

No, you should not "copy" the look of other movies. Instead, you should be "inspired" by them. There is a subtle difference which I will leave to you as a thought experiment to figure out.

As to owning a better camera, I remember suggesting a particular Blackmagic model and a couple of lenses to you months ago. As with every other specific recommendation that's been made, you ignored it.

You are NOT going to learn how to do this well just by reading, watching and discussing the techniques. Those are necessary steps, but must be based on and followed up with real experience - starting with brief tests of some specific effects or settings, then some full scenes, then short film projects, and eventually your feature. Owning a decent camera won't hurt you whether or not you use it on your later, larger projects, but will facilitate experimenting with more options and techniques now, and will always be useful in those future situations where you don't have experienced crew people and higher end equipment to work with. That has to be all to the good.

Stanley Kubrick owned a couple of Arri IIc cameras and a whole bunch of lenses which he used mainly to test out his ideas, but which he also used to produce some footage that ended up in "2001" and "Barry Lyndon," perhaps among others. (Remember the bone tossed in the air at the end of the first act in "2001" - that was shot handheld by Kubrick himself in the parking lot of the studio.) I hardly think he had any trouble hiring the finest cinematographers and cameras for his films, but still found it valuable to have some decent gear of his own to learn and experiment with.

Over the years Kubrick owned other cameras, not just the Arri 35 IIC.

I don't know if the bone shot in the film was a blow up from 35mm to 65mm, although Kubrick did some hand held operating with a 65mm camera on "2001". Before Ryan starts asking questions 70mm films are shot on 65mm stock, but the prints are 70mm because of the sound tracks,

I really like the blue sunlight look, like you see in movies like this example:

Drug War (2012) - Something's Wrong Scene (1/10) | Movieclips - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS01myY24NA)

I tried doing it by turning my color temperature down to 3200 kelvin more around, until the sun became blue enough, but when I do that, peoples faces come out magenta of course. But in that clip, they manage to keep the magenta skin toned quite down, yet keep the sunlight quite blue at the same time. Does anyone know how they did it by any chance?

Can't access that clip but if this is the movie, see below, that you are talking about it's just a derivation on the rather overworked "Orange/Teal" complimentary contrast colors grade. A lesson on how do achieve that in Resolve is below by Juan Melara.

Using the Magic Bullet "Looks" suite in Premiere and numerous other NLE's etc then here is a tutorial from Stu Maschwitz. He also explains how colors work with and against one another using Adobe Kuler Color Wheel. See the Adobe link down the bottom. Also if not working LOG you could try the Osiris M31 Rec 709 LUT and tweak around for your own look. Link below.

Chris Young

Drug War Theatrical Trailer (2013) - Johnnie To Movie HD - YouTube

Working from LOG files any of these workflows below you should be able to generate the "Drug War 2012" look.

Resolve
01 The Summer Blockbuster Colour Grading Tutorial on Vimeo

Magic Bullet
Red Giant | Episode 22: Creating a Summer Blockbuster Film Look - YouTube

Bright Sunlight and Osiris M31 LUT with links
Death Valley Panasonic G7 with 25mm 1.7 - YouTube

https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel

https://www.colorgradingcentral.com/getting-started-with-m31/

I didn't want to say it, but "Orange/Teal" did pass through my mind when I saw the trailer before replying earlier in the thread,

There's a whole thread on doing that for an interior (which I recall included that summer block buster), so it does seem to be going over old ground with Ryan.

Yes! Back around 2013 that Orange/Teal look got hammered to death. As you say old ground but for some jobs still quite applicable. The fact that it utilized complimentary colors that work on a subliminal level was why it was very successful. Manipulation of the mind! :)

Some years ago I chucked together a bunch of LOG and 709 LUTs as quite a few people were asking for a range of cheap LUTs and some of the most popular were those Orange/Teal derivations.

Chris Young

ARRI, Canon, Sony, Panasonic and Blackmagic LOG & Rec 709 3D LUTs Pack (.CUBE format.) - YouTube

Oh okay thanks. I can get the blackmagic, and I did not forget about the suggestion to get it. I was going to get it later on, but thought I would work with what I have for now. I've watched a couple of those tutorials before and can watch the rest. They talk about keying out the skin tones, it's just when I do it, I get noise problems.

But I thought it was a me problem and not a camera problem. I was going to get the camera though.

The movie Drug War doesn't have a typical teal and orange look though, because the skin tones are a lot more neutral than orange. Their is also no teal and it's blue instead. So I thought it was a blue and neutral look, rather than the usual teal and orange look you see so much.

I wouldn't say I am copying the look, but am inspired by it. I have a different look in mind, that is a combination of looks, but this is just one of them, where I have to figure out how to get the sky blue, and separate the skin tones, in order as a step to that look I have in mind. I wasn't planning on copying the Drug War look exactly.

In the tutorials the skin is way too orange for what I want, and I just want a neutral skin tone though.

With these programs you can make adjusts. Use a RAW or Tiff still image to experiment with, rather than the compressed 8bit 4;2.0 video that your current camera probably records.

I really don't get it Ryan. With all the really vital elements you're now faffing around with colour in your head. Recording decent audio, decent camera operation and basic editing are things that baffle you.

Teal/orange again? The people in that movie have different skin tone from some of the others you have considered in the past, and the trouble with using the word 'teal' is that it is very subjective. We have RGBYCM as terms that have very precise colour meaning. Orange and Teal are not objective, they're subjective. In every piece of software that can colour correct and change, you never see a fader marked 'teal' - so maybe you should stop thinking until you are sitting in front of a monitor, with people and backgrounds of all types - different skin colours and things like suntan to contend with. See what you can do. Do't forget that noise often comes from putting colour into something where there is nothing to boost, so trying to add blue to a coloured surface that is yellowish produces noise because you are having to add far too much.

These movies you used as the example here are the kind of movies I'd not get past the credits - I'm genuinely interested why you even have these movies on your watch list? They don't seem to offer anything very much?

I really don't get it Ryan. With all the really vital elements you're now faffing around with colour in your head. Recording decent audio, decent camera operation and basic editing are things that baffle you.

Teal/orange again? The people in that movie have different skin tone from some of the others you have considered in the past, and the trouble with using the word 'teal' is that it is very subjective. We have RGBYCM as terms that have very precise colour meaning. Orange and Teal are not objective, they're subjective. In every piece of software that can colour correct and change, you never see a fader marked 'teal' - so maybe you should stop thinking until you are sitting in front of a monitor, with people and backgrounds of all types - different skin colours and things like suntan to contend with. See what you can do. Do't forget that noise often comes from putting colour into something where there is nothing to boost, so trying to add blue to a coloured surface that is yellowish produces noise because you are having to add far too much.

These movies you used as the example here are the kind of movies I'd not get past the credits - I'm genuinely interested why you even have these movies on your watch list? They don't seem to offer anything very much?

Oh okay, well how do I find out what the exact tone of blue I want would be called then specifically?

Also, are you saying that the movies I am inspired by do not have good cinematography? I mean I thought Drug War looked good, and you don't see anyone ripping apart the cinematography on it. Should I be inspired by different movies? Are there other movies with not as good cinematography I was inspired by before that you were thinking of as well?

The choice of look is up to you, although the fashion for that particular look may be passing. That's the nature of these things.

How blue or variation on blue you go for is something that your colourist will have control over, It's going to be a matter of making the final decision during the grading.

Oh okay, but shouldn't I plan the look more in the shooting, rather than the grading? I didn't think the fashion of the look may be passing because you hardly ever see it. Sure you see a lot of teal and orange, but this is blue and neutral, which I thought looked and felt quite different. I know that is not the right color term, just not sure what else to call it. It's just this look feels a lot more cold and gritty compared to teal and orange, which is more popular these days, but feels a lot more warm in comparison I thought.

You can plan to do it, but this look is something that you apply in post. You're not applying it in the camera, so what's in the camera is probably going to be pretty neutral.

.

Oh okay. Now I can shoot with a filter on the camera that makes the sunlight come through blue as well, if that is better, and may reduce noise in post, since filters do not create noise?

As has been said before, if you're going to do this type of post production work don't use a lower quality codec for acquisition. Your test is worthless if you're not going to shoot with your camera or a similar camera, so don't your waste time doing it as a serious test.

Again, use an appropriate still file. One of the high end cinematography sites uses TIFF files of their tests, so that members can use colour correction software on them in order to confirm the results from various the camera and film stock tests..

When I said applying it on the camera, it wasn't just using filters, it involved using the more complex menus found in the broadcast type video cameras that were used in the 2000s when they were using 8bit recording formats on HD like HDCAM.

Ryan, I'm old. I've spent my life thing to make cameras look the same. Making white white. Viewfinders can rarely tell you when you are out there shooting, so you stick something white in front of the lens and press a button. Most times the camera says something like 5500, and you look around and nod or shake your head.

Rarely, I'll drag out a Matt box and stick a blue grad in it on the spur of the moment, but that's it. Everything else is a non-destructive post decision. I'm not interested in huge colour shifts for effect, and I must admit that all those old film stock presets just make me wonder why anyone would have chosen them in the days they were available?

I think I'm just odd. I'm just totally disinterested in these treatments, and I bet I've watched some of the movies you'd be so inter eyed in for their looks. It means all this teal/orange thing just passes me by. When I was 17 I spent a year working with an art film maker. I simply didn't get it. I spent two months building a replica sopwith camel cockpit and making bullet holes and smoke and eventually setting it on fire. That I really enjoyed, but I have no memory of the arty-fatty movie it went into at all.

Colour wise, I've an app that tells me the rgb components of what you point the camera at and that's all I can offer for art descriptions of colour. There is probably a rosco or lee gel that matches what you think teal is. I suspect it's the video persons version of the sound persons words like dark, body, prescence, colour etc.

I’m becoming an expert at deciphering Ryan’s threads.
1. It always starts with copying a movie.
2. Asking how it was done. In this case color grading 10bit+ color video.
3. Then trying to find ways to achieve the same results without buying the needed equipment (cinema camera) and taking the time to follow the accepted process (color grading). So in this case he’s asking if using a blue filter on a 8 bit dslr will give the same results.

None of us know whether you can achieve good enough results using doggy cost saving methods. You’ll have to try it out for yourself.

How many pages do you think this one will be?

Oh, it could ne endless, given that it's related to a similar question about blue walls on his interiors. The only difference seeming to be how orange the flesh tones are.

You mean this one https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-discussion/537276-what-camera-would-best-me-when-comes-color-grading.html?537276=#post1956997
I skimmed through a few pages and smoke started coming out of my ears.

Oh okay, I thought that they achieved this look for the movie while shooting with filters or shooting on a low color temperature, or something like that. I didn't know it was achieved in post, so I thought it was different from past threads, if they achieved it in camera.

But it seems I perhaps shouldn't go for this look because it was pointed out on here before that it's not very good, but what movie looks should I be inspired by that are good then, when it comes to a thriller tone?

There are loads of looks used in thrillers, from glossy to gritty and dirty, It should come from the story and the world that your characters live in.

Yes that makes sense, but is it wrong to be inspired by other movies, though, or get ideas from?

There's nothing wrong with that, assuming that it fits in with the world of your story.

Oh okay. Actually I have another question about cinematography and color if that is okay.

For a script I want to plan out, there is a scene that takes place in between two other scenes. The first scene is daytime, and the third scene is night. But I can't go from one to the other, because the audiece will under, how is it all of a sudden night now, in just a matter of minutes.

So I thought it was best to have a dusk scene in between. But I don't want to actuall shoot during dusk, because you have less tahan an hour before the light changes, and the shoot could take a whole day.

So I was wondering, could I shoot for a whole day, during daytime, and use color grading to fake that it's dusk, by making the sun more warmer, or more orange? Or will the audience not see this as dusk, but just a really warm looking, middle of the day scene?

If it's dark, and it was light before, time has passed. It's the oldest trick in the book to suggest time has passed. You often see it in a Sven where the sun is high. Then the sun is just above the horizon. The audience may well be totalled unskilled in moving making, but they immediately know it's later in the day. I cannot imagine why you'd even think this would be confusing. Continuity wise one of the easy errors is the Suns position changing the wrong way. It's a big jolt that the public notice. Going the other way is a subtle clue most pick up. The classic lengthening shadows to denote time passing. You cannot at your ability level you've explained before, fake a days shooting and make it look dusk. Dusk has a classic feel and I don't think I could make midday look dusk realistically I'd have to shoot very carefully so all the clues were missing. No bright sunlight, cloudy sky all day? Maybe then I could make it work.

It's like the 50s and 60s era when movies and film for to shot through blue gel to make it night time, but shot in bright sunshine and it just got accepted as what it really looked like at night. We'd never get away with that now.

Yes, you can cut directly, it just needs setting up in the script. Quite a few films do direct cuts to night, if in doubt you can use a dissolve.

It's no different to this:

Lawrence of Arabia - match scene - the greatest editing cut ever HD - YouTube

Oh okay. Well in Lawrence of Arabia for example, a lot of time has passed between the two. Where as in mine, it all takes place in the same evening/night, so I don't think I can do a subtle cut from full daytime to full nighttime, without a dusk scene in between to bridge the two, I don't think, compared to the timeline of Larwrence of Arabia.

It's basically a jump cut. If the audience is set up for a time change you can do it, e.g, looking at watch or the dialogue " tonight then".

It's not a subtle cut, it,s a dramatic cut which is driven by the story.

If it requires mood setting etc, that's another matter.

Oh okay, I thought it was more of a smash cut. But if I do a jump cut, I feel that the audience would be thinking, why is it night of all a sudden, and why did even take so long, when it shouldn't have?

It's not the editing I feel that is the problem it's the wondering, if why the event took so long, when it should have only taken maybe a half hour. If I go from pure daylight, to pure night in a cut, then it's going to feel like more than a 30 minutes. went by, shouldn't it?

As I intentioned before, it's how you set it up. A cut doesn't work in isolation, what happens before sets it up.

If the audience is left wondering or thinking, instead of following the story, you've done everything wrong. The reason is deeper than just a cut.

Oh okay. But the problem isn't the cut though, it's the time setting. Is it possible to go from pure after noon daylight, to pure black night, and the audience thinks that only 30 minutes have passed? It's not the type of cutting that's the problem it's the missing time gap in the story. How do you get around that though? No matter what type of cut you do, there will still be a missing time gap in the plot, wouldn't there? If I cut from pure day to pure night, the audience is going to think that at least 3-4 hours have passed, as oppose to 30 minutes.

If you don't know how to leap time like this don't do it,

Oh okay. Well in that case I could just have the seen be set at dusk then, so the night scene will follow after. But if I need to shoot for the longer day, then what dusk will allow, and just make it look like dusk though, should I just turn up the orange in the color grading to try to make it look like dusk, or will the audience still think it's daytime, but just cranked up orange?

Shoot day for night, assuming it's not an urban environment. That can look like dusk or twilight, especially if it's overcast.,

This sounds more like a scheduling issue than a creative decision.

If you're making a low budget film, don't put scenes in that you don't have the time to shoot. You need to change them to match the available resources. Time is a resource.

Oh okay. I have time to shoot. What I mean is, is that I need more time than dusk will allow to shoot, since dusk is only like an hour long around, before the sun changes.

Well the setting is an urban environment though as far as day for night goes. But when you say for night, you mean shooting underexposed in the daytime pretty much, right?