View Full Version : Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?


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Paul R Johnson
January 15th, 2020, 02:58 AM
"He said...." This is where you move into options. "OK - must admit this worries me, but let's try it on one take, and see if it's possible. If it goes wrong, then we'll need to break it into sections, or you're going to get tired, and make more mistakes, and we don't want to do that". You have given them what they want, but they already have a plan B, which of course you need.

I'm concerned that when given the suggestion about being too passive, you made a jump to the word aggressive! This is BAD. In fact, being aggressive is the worst possible working arrangement with a client. You are thinking about the passive/aggressive personality disorder. This is NOT what we are talking about.

Our use of the word passive is where clients ask for things you know will fail, and you offer no resistance and go with it. Stage two is taking this depressed and possibly stressed client and providing support and guidance to make the product and process work. NOT aggression. The trick is usually letting the client think they got their way, when you got yours.

This is a train wreck of a project unless you get control and make it work. I'd start with a very simple set of questions. Who are the audience? What do they want the video to do? How is it best presented? They MUST give you solid answers to these simple questions. If they cannot answer them with immediate, solid and considered responses, then you will never get to the end because they have movable goalposts. Nothing you can do will make them happy. Walk away telling them you don't think you are the best person to do this job, but tell them that if they can decide the direction they want to go, you'd be happy to reconsider once they' decided.

Pete Cofrancesco
January 15th, 2020, 07:14 AM
This is so ridiculous, we’re wasted so much much time giving Ryan all this advice only to find out he’s not even remotely in charge of this project. I was fooled into thinking someone who is planning to direct a feature film would at least be able to take the clients ideas and come up with a plan how to film it. A guy who went to film school is letting a would be karate instructor have full control of whatever this is.

I shouldn’t get mad at him because I think even though he talks a good game here, in person he doesn’t have ability lead or direct. I’m left with a feeling he suffers from some form of autism. I keep on expecting with more experience he’s going to gain the confidence to take charge but I’m now of the opinion that unfortunately this is good as it gets. I’m not blaming him it’s just pointless for us to give him advice.

Paul R Johnson
January 15th, 2020, 09:41 AM
I think this is why, unlike so many other posters who appear and vanish, we've stuck with Ryan, hoping that we can guide him.I have a lad who works for me who has Asberger's and he is rather driven like Ryan, and he's always dependable and useful, and I've been gently exploring his limits and while by no means an expert on these things I've done pretty well getting him integrated with the others. Hence why I personally, keep trying with Ryan - but we do seem to go two steps forward, then back three sometimes. From our side, it's infuriating to see many of our suggestions really badly misunderstood, and creating tangents to shoot off into. Ryan'e been plugging away but this one is a very good example of him being asked to do something and being way off the mark because he doesn't understand the clients, and worse, they seem unable to understand anything about making videos. It really makes no sense flogging this dead horse. The two people we see in the video clearly are clueless about their real need for the video and how to make it good.

We just struggle on. The advice we are giving here is simply give up and move on, and Ryan does not do this - but this time, he should.

It's a poor subject, presented by poor talent, shot by poor old Ryan who lost control from shot 1.

Pete Cofrancesco
January 15th, 2020, 10:04 AM
I think this is why, unlike so many other posters who appear and vanish, we've stuck with Ryan, hoping that we can guide him.I have a lad who works for me who has Asberger's and he is rather driven like Ryan, and he's always dependable and useful, and I've been gently exploring his limits and while by no means an expert on these things I've done pretty well getting him integrated with the others. Hence why I personally, keep trying with Ryan - but we do seem to go two steps forward, then back three sometimes. From our side, it's infuriating to see many of our suggestions really badly misunderstood, and creating tangents to shoot off into. Ryan'e been plugging away but this one is a very good example of him being asked to do something and being way off the mark because he doesn't understand the clients, and worse, they seem unable to understand anything about making videos. It really makes no sense flogging this dead horse. The two people we see in the video clearly are clueless about their real need for the video and how to make it good.

We just struggle on. The advice we are giving here is simply give up and move on, and Ryan does not do this - but this time, he should.

It's a poor subject, presented by poor talent, shot by poor old Ryan who lost control from shot 1.
If you don't have the ability to lead that's ok, everyone has their limitations, we can't all be Steve Spielberg. There are plenty of positions like camera operator, boom operator, etc that you follow what you're told. Ryan should be satisfied with doing that instead of trying to pursue directing feature films. Can you imagine a 50k budgeted feature film in his hands?

Now that we have a clear picture of what's going on with this project, a clueless client who's winging it and Ryan who's just along for the ride. I don't think there is any advice that would make much of a difference with whatever the end result will be. For a while I thought it was just an instructional style video that we could offer suggestions to improve the next installment. But that's not the case here.

Josh Bass
January 15th, 2020, 10:33 AM
He's directly said he's on the spectrum before so proceed gently.

As for the stuff about crewing vs directing please see: every other thread.

Brian Drysdale
January 15th, 2020, 11:11 AM
There are some directors who are on the spectrum, however, how it affects their ability can't be applied to everyone. Some have been successful because of it giving them a unique world view, but I suspect most will not have that vision which connects with an audience and so will work in other roles in the crew.

Pete Cofrancesco
January 15th, 2020, 11:20 AM
In other threads there are many who suggest it’s a lack of real world experience and he needs to pay his dues work his way up on a professional set to become a director. Treading lightly as I can, if this isn’t a lack of experience thing then that advice is misleading. I’m trying to be helpful as I can to dissuade someone from a bad decision. Much like if I had a friend who was terrible at poker wanted take his life savings to the casino. While you can’t stop someone from trying to do something that they’re not good at, it’s concerning (if it’s true) borrowing a large sum of money to pursue something in my mind is folly.

Ryan Elder
January 15th, 2020, 11:41 AM
Oh okay thanks. Nothing is wrong with the how the treading has been done on here or the advice. Thanks.

I think perhaps maybe I don't know how to proceed cause I don't have a script. I think with certain scripts I would do a much better job in directing, or at least I feel I would. Perhaps a promotional video, is just not my thing as director, which is why I prefer to do fictional narratives, as I feel I would do a lot better there.

As for the directing a feature film, I was told by other filmmakers I worked with that they think I could do it as long as I had a much better DP and much better actors then before, since they said those were the things that were lacking before, and they feel I would do much better with those people to help carry it through, if that's true.

As for me possibly having a unique view, I suppose that's possible, cause I come up with certain ideas and then people think they are strange or at least very unique. But one filmmaker I know said that that's good, cause otherwise I would just be following the trends more and doing what everyone else is doing, if that's true.

Josh Bass
January 15th, 2020, 12:13 PM
If you are to continue with your martial arts client I think you should postpone future shoots untill/unless you work out a treatment/outline/script for this thing. No matter how many meetings or emails it takes. Get a solid plan down that outlines what happens during every single moment of this video.

What youre doing is not really that different than the many corporate projects I work on...training videos, videos about new buildings, etc. Those all have scripts in two column format, almost a paper version of what the final product will look once edited. Paragraph by paragraph, sometimes sentence by sentence, you know exactly what shots will go with what audio (sometimes it just says “b-roll of _____”) and generally whats happening at every moment. You time out yourself or them reading each line so you know you have 2.7 seconds you need to cover for this sentence, etc.

I think you need something like that for this project, so everyone’s on the same page. If they wont agree to that, cause “its not in the spirit of Krav Maga” or whatever, I’d say walk away. Sometimes you have to train your clients on how to be good clients. They should be willing to put in the work.

Ryan Elder
January 15th, 2020, 12:44 PM
Okay thanks well we have a more specific outline of scenes now and the order they are in. Three of them scenes are training moves, and the fourth is a sit down interview type scene where he talks about his place, and what he has to offer, but this scene will book end the other three. At least that is what we have so far.

Josh Bass
January 15th, 2020, 01:14 PM
At this point, with these people, I would take it even farther and do something that's down to the moment by moment details of the videos, since these folks seem to need all the guidance in the world. Something like this. You'd figure out the best shot for each bit of narration etc., then shoot with the script in mind, so you know exactly what you do and don't need.

Greg Smith
January 15th, 2020, 03:13 PM
Josh, that just won't work for Ryan. Nowhere in your sample script does it mention star filters. :-)

Josh Bass
January 15th, 2020, 03:18 PM
I'm sure they were on another page somewhere.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 01:12 PM
Well I came up with a shot list but it didn't work for the next shoot cause their movements it turns out were completely different than what I had in my head, so I couldn't move the camera the way I thought it had to be moved.

Here is another issue. It was said before, not to shoot perpendicularly. However, if I don't, then the actors will go out of focus if they are not fighting on an angle that is not perpendicular. And I can't pull focus since the moves they are doing are unpredictable. Even if we talk about it beforehand, it comes out completely different than how I envision it.

And it's hard to rehearse cause they really don't like doing several takes. They even looked at the footage as I played it back and said it was good and were finished for the day, even though I didn't think it was good.

Is this why for example Boxing is shot at a perpendicular angle often, cause they can't predict where they are going to go and they don't want to loose focus?

Brian Drysdale
January 17th, 2020, 01:39 PM
Keeping focus is a skill that camera operators on these types of productions need, however, it can only be learnt with practice.. Having peaking in the viewfinder assists with this and a good tripod allows you to smoothly follow the action.

Follow the action that's happening before you, not what you think it's going to be, read their bodies so you can sense which way they're going. If you can't follow it, you may be too tight, so loosen off the shot.

Stopping down will give you a greater depth of field.

I'm not sure what you mean by perpendicular, from what you're saying the moves have to be in the plane of focus, which may or may not be perpendicular, depending on how you set up the camera.

The shot list just needs to very general, on things like this the action will be different, so you need to think on your feet.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 01:43 PM
Okay thanks, it's just hard to cause the are not hitting the same marks every time, which they are not use to of course.

By perpendicular I mean how it was said before that the angle I chose was boring cause it goes from left to right, and they are on an even plain if that makes sense?

But if I do it that way, they don't go out of focus, cause they are the same distance from the camera the whole time. If I shoot on a non-perpendicular angle, than they go further away from the camera, as they fight, or closer, which makes focus pulling harder.

I can only deepen the DOF so much though before it's too dark. Plus I was told before to put the background more of focus if possible, but I can open it up sharp if that's better for a deeper DOF. I think the problem is for me, is that the fighting is changing so much and I really need more rehearsal with them and more planning with them, but it's been tough to get. I think it's because before, they are use to shooting on their phones, with past videos and on their phones, everything is in focus, so not as much planning is needed. So maybe I just need to think like that, and increase the gain quite a bit higher, and just shoot with a deeper DOF, hoping that will work, but then gain and noise is raised higher though.

If I had access to the location more I could light this place better, and rehearse just the camera settings and lighting, but I only have access to it when they want to shoot though. But maybe I should just raise the gain to 1600 and not lower it and treat it like cellphone shooting with a much deeper DOF, if that's better.

Josh Bass
January 17th, 2020, 02:02 PM
You could just get a more camcordery type cam with a smaller sensor/deep DOF for shoots of this nature, where “artistry” is a low priority. Youre used to DSLRs but a fixed lens small ENG cam would probably be better. More versatile zoom range, XLR inputs, and deep focus. It doenst have to be new unless you need 4k (hint: you probably dont). Anything HD with manual controls and XLR inputs would probably work. We STILL use the Sony EX1 for some jobs and that cam came out in 2008! Could probably be had for very cheap. Go a tier down AND old and you could probably get something for next to nothing. Used, obviously. DSLRs are not great for everything.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 02:19 PM
I could. But I might just have to work with what I have now, as I don't have time to shop for anything new I don't think at the moment, depending on price. One person I know has a camcorder but not sure if it's HD. I can check. Thanks.

I thought maybe it's me and I can try planning better but the moves are not turning out like I had envisioned from the conversations, in terms of predicting movement.

Josh Bass
January 17th, 2020, 02:32 PM
This is that part everyone keeps harping on about how you have to learn how to think on your feet on these kinds of shoots, with these kind of clients (the type who are somewhat difficult and don't want collaborate with the videographer). They're still giving you only 90 minutes per day to set up and record all this? I've seen this stuff take hours, between figuring out where the talent has to be at each point and where the cam needs to be too catch them, and multiple takes.

You should do a deep think and really ask yourself if you're cut out for this type of work (thinking on your feet/not being able to plan/tough clients), and if not, bow out/walk away. Not everyone is. Just cause you can work on movies with actors who know they're in for a long day and live to be told what to do, where you can at least partially plan every detail, doesn't mean you're suited to all forms of video production.

Pete Cofrancesco
January 17th, 2020, 02:33 PM
Ryan when we give you suggestions you seem to panic and put yourself in a box. There are a number of modifications you could do if you're having focus problem. Shooting 6-10ft away from the subject, using a wide angle lens, and setting the aperture to 5.6 should give you ample dof to work with. If you're still having problems you can reduce the angle of view to maybe just 15-20 degrees. It's true that camcorder eng style cameras are better suited to this work with their smaller sensors that have a larger dof. I still think that an apc size dslr should still be able to handle this job if used properly.

Josh Bass
January 17th, 2020, 02:41 PM
If they're only giving him 90 minutes per shooting session that's not a lot of time for an inexperienced one-man band to get things done...setting up, figuring out the focus issue, seeing the move and how to break it down into shots/angles, all while working with a somewhat uncooperative client.

Hell, I would struggle with what he's trying to accomplish under those conditions, and probably wouldn't have taken this on at all.

There are definitely folks who could get it done, but I'm thinking of people who've been at this for 25 years and just "know" stuff at first glance, and can think in sequences, etc. Can almost see the edit in their heads and know how to shoot for it.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 02:43 PM
Okay thanks. I definitely would do a lot better if I had more than 90 minutes at a time per shoot I feel.

As for moving the camera further away, well they keep coming close to it, so they still leave the DOF. Also, the more I move it away, the further away they are when they start, so it's hard to see the moves they want to show then, but maybe that's okay...

Josh Bass
January 17th, 2020, 02:48 PM
Ok let's take a different tack

How much do they actually care about this whole thing and how it comes out? As I said before, clients who care, going by many corporate shoots I've done, are a lot more anal about stuff, perfectionist, and aren't like "eh that's fine let's move on" when the videographer is unhappy (within reason...there ARE videographers who are TOO perfectionist...but this doesn't sound like you in this case).

I mean, I'm sure your client would PREFER it come out well, but if doesn't, do you think they might just never put it on their site and shelve it? Are they paying you? Are they paying you WELL? Your descriptions of your interactions with them have all the hallmarks of someone treating this like a "be nice it works out but no biggie if it doesn't" kinda project.

If that's the case, then maybe just do what you can within your many constraints and don't stress, do better on the next.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 02:52 PM
I'm not being payed I took this on as a volunteer gig for something to do in the meantime, since I thought maybe I should take on more different types of projects.

I think they are in a rush a to get it done. They seem like they want to, but definitely want to rush it out there it seems.

Josh Bass
January 17th, 2020, 02:57 PM
Ok, so here's what I perceive to be happening:

They have NOTHING to lose here...there is no money or anything else at stake here for them. If this doesn't turn out well for them, there is nothing lost if they don't use the videos (hint: they probably won't) on their site.

This means they can run the shoot terribly and it ultimately doesn't matter, because, again, nothing is really at stake.

This is often the case with volunteer work. Where you would THINK a client would be grateful beyond belief that someone is donating their time and gear to make something for them, often times it is the opposite and the lack of money comes with a total lack of respect for the videographer's time etc. So basically they're like "eh, this guy volunteered so why not? Whatever. Who cares." I don't know if that pisses you off, but it should. You're trying to grow and they almost couldn't give less of a crap about the whole thing.

Do what that info what you will.

Pete Cofrancesco
January 17th, 2020, 02:58 PM
Okay thanks. I definitely would do a lot better if I had more than 90 minutes at a time per shoot I feel.

As for moving the camera further away, well they keep coming close to it, so they still leave the DOF. Also, the more I move it away, the further away they are when they start, so it's hard to see the moves they want to show then, but maybe that's okay...
I don't want to get into a debate about this but if you're using a kit zoom lens, the aperture doesn't open that wide, and you should be using the widest part of the lens which is often around 30mm. Those factors alone are going to give you a large dof. You can test this out at home or look it up on dof calculator. https://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
I think because you are always trying to shoot close ups you aren't aware of how large the dof is for wide angle shots.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 03:11 PM
Well they are in focus for about half the shot, but as they come closer, they start going out, once they cross the first half of the room. But perhaps the motion blur from their speed may hide the going out of focus, and it may be just interpreted as motion blur maybe.

And yes, they have nothing to lose, but of course I still want to do a good job, with what I have, if possible.

Brian Drysdale
January 17th, 2020, 03:16 PM
If doing this types of gigs you have to be in charge as the director, you need to use whatever mind games you have in your arsenal to get the participants into the required positions. If they come towards you, cut instantly and tell them not to, reposition them and do another take.

You are the one doing them a favour by making them a free video.

Paul R Johnson
January 17th, 2020, 03:26 PM
This is the sort of production where things will be unpredictable and a proper video camera, with a lens that stays in focus is a real must. I very rarely need a shallow DoF. All my work seems to require sharp images, and anything out of focus is bad. With a real camera, with real focussing, you spend so little time running focus. Focus is the thing I learned first with my studio camera work. Focussing the correct direction was always the killer. Something in the viewfinder is soft, but turning the focus knob the wrong way on a live shot was the sign of a real novice. You soon develop the knack of spotting if the soft item is behind the sharp subject or if its a soft foreground object. Focus really is not a problem, and the notion that for this martial arts production it is just screams wrong setup to me. If the set isn't bright enough then you need more light, or a more appropriate camera. If you must use your existing camera and lenses, then getting the light level up is important.

Ryan - this is a very simple project. I fail to see what it's causing so much grief. If I were doing it there would be hardly any advance prep. I'd turn up with the right kit, I'd talk to them, and we'd start shooting pretty quickly. After shot one, we'd chat and change things. Setup wise, you're just not going to get all pan angles identical distances, so subject distance will be very variable, so your DoF must be deep enough to get it all in the frame in focus. Focus set on the median position and away you go.

Pete Cofrancesco
January 17th, 2020, 03:27 PM
Well they are in focus for about half the shot, but as they come closer, they start going out, once they cross the first half of the room. But perhaps the motion blur from their speed may hide the going out of focus, and it may be just interpreted as motion blur maybe.

And yes, they have nothing to lose, but of course I still want to do a good job, with what I have, if possible.
Newer dslr have autofocus with facial tracking, camcorders have large dof, you need to backup, change your angle, or establish boundaries for their movement. Like Josh is saying this low end stuff with low expectations.

You are going to keep finding these type of problems because you're too passive and are not in control. This is your typical wing it as you go along type of stuff.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 03:29 PM
Okay thanks. I'll just run the gain higher than I use to, to get a deeper DOF without going too dark then, if that's better.

I was able to pull focus before on other projects, but that's when actors were hitting their marks, where as with this, they are going all over the place, so it's tough.

This is one of the reasons why I shot it from a perpendicular angle before because then the two fighters keep the same distance from the camera, while moving left to right, and stay in the same focus area. But if that type of shot is not artistic enough, then I could try getting a deeper DOF from a less perpendicular angle.

Brian Drysdale
January 17th, 2020, 04:37 PM
You need to use the peaking, so that you can pull focus by eye, this allows you can see where the focus is. Ir's even easier if your camera had a colour option on the peaking.

This is all standard stuff, on documentaries, sports and news and current affairs.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 04:46 PM
Yes for sure, I just don't have focus peaking on the camera. But I remember reading that magic lantern has it, so if that's true, I can try putting that on the camera and see.

Brian Drysdale
January 17th, 2020, 05:51 PM
Unless you're got a highly effective auto focus, not having this feature probably limits your camera for any serious video work.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 06:37 PM
Oh well I don't have autofocus on the current camera I am using. But I never liked autofocus before, cause I worked with a couple of DPs that used before but it would fail or fall behind quite a few times though, so I didn't think it was any better, but maybe.

John Nantz
January 17th, 2020, 09:34 PM
I took this on as a volunteer gig for something to do in the meantime, since I thought maybe I should take on more different types of projects.
Excellent because this is good experience.

I think they are in a rush a to get it done. They seem like they want to, but definitely want to rush it out there it seems.
Understandable as they’re paying rent, or at lease the electric and heating bills, on the place and need to get clients in so they’re stressed.

…, but that's when actors were hitting their marks, where as with this, they are going all over the place, so it's tough.
Lay a rope across the mat just out of frame and tell them if they cross that like you’ll cut their legs off!

Oh okay thanks. The problem with using a cellphone though, is that the angle is so wide you have to get a lot more close. So it can be seen in the other camera therefore.

Or even if I use a cellphone to do the mastershot, I would have to move the other camera out of frame and zoom in, but then the angle is compromised that way somewhat though.
Cell phones since at least before 2014 should be able to Zoom with no problem. Between the three of you there should be three cell phones so surly one of them will have zoom capability. There have been umpteen posts over several days about how you can’t see the other side of the arm (or whatever). There needs to be another cam… somehow!

For a cheap B-roll phone tripod, get a handle off of a push broom, one that unscrews, and tape the phone to the handle at the hight you want and leave your cam on the tripod wide. Or, if it’s possible one can still reach the controls, reverse the rolls.

The guys are getting nervous because nothing is working. This video gig is taking too long.
“If you want it bad, you get it bad!”
This isn’t Hollywood!
At this point it doesn’t have to be a thing of beauty.

These things always involve comprise, it usually involves working out the best compromise that works.
YES! As a director one has to get used to compromise and be creative (fast and cheap).

Oh okay, well I find this to be very different than directing a feature with action scenes, cause for the feature, you are setting up the shots for emotion, …. So I feel it's a whole new ball game for me, compared to the action scene of a movie.
If it isn’t one thing, it’ll be something else. One has to be a problem solver and get past the road blocks.

Ryan Elder
January 17th, 2020, 10:03 PM
Oh okay thanks. Well I don't have a tripod for a cellphone and don't want it to look handheld though, which is why I didn't consider a cellphone before.

I did put tape down and told them not to cross it but it kept getting crossed, and it's hard for them to control that during the moves. Or even if they get close to it, if I pan down far enough the tape is scene anyway in the frame, if they go down to the ground and it wasn't planned... So maybe I shouldn't use tape then?

Well I am editing the latest shoot now, and how bad is jump cutting for some things though? I've seen in movies before where it's the style, so would work in something like this do you think if I made it the style?

Brian Drysdale
January 18th, 2020, 02:39 AM
If they go down on the floor just shout cut. Tell them that they have to know what they're going to demonstrate and go no further. Either that, or fade out (or something else) and go onto the next demo in the video using some sort of audio as part of the link. If you do this once, you should do it every time.

You can improvise a support for the cell phone, perhaps using a mic stand, there are all kinds of clips around in the market for phones. Magic arms are also great for putting stuff up.

Again, you need to roll with what you've got as the director and use it to best effect.

Jump cutting can work, just so long as it's been established as a style for the video. With modern videos there are lots of tools in the inventory, just be consistent. You should be able to judge if it works yourself.

John Nantz
January 18th, 2020, 04:57 PM
There are a couple Best Buy stores in Saskatoon that might have a tripod and camera holder [Edit: meant phone holder] that would work for you in this case.
https://stores.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/sk/saskatoon

Just noticed an ad for a phone-gimbal and tripod on this web site that would be a nice upscale solution.

There is a $15 tripod with a spreader in Regina - too bad it's so far away. Looks nice for the money. What, ~ 250 miles? Bummer.
https://www.usedregina.com/classified-ad/Camera-Tripod-Stand_35063718

Ryan Elder
January 19th, 2020, 12:00 PM
That's true, I just feel that since it's there project, they should put in for it, especially since I don't think someone trying to be professional like me, should shoot on a cellphone. And I am already buying other equipment anyway for other things. But is that the wrong attitude?

Brian Drysdale
January 19th, 2020, 12:38 PM
Feature films have been shot on a cell phone. In this case use it as a B camera, you're making a video for free for use on the internet, so I wouldn't get up tight about using a cell phone.

Get a GoPro if it makes you feel any better.

Ryan Elder
January 19th, 2020, 01:30 PM
Oh okay, actually the gopros seem to have more barrel distortion than cellphones. So I guess I will stick with a cellphone then as B camera.

Brian Drysdale
January 19th, 2020, 02:14 PM
You should be able to use your NLE to remove barrel distortion. I gather the latest Go Pro has alternative options for angle of view.

Ryan Elder
January 19th, 2020, 02:38 PM
Well if I do that in the NLE though, then I have to zoom into the picture, which means I will have to shoot further back and loose more pixels then that way. I haven't tried the latest gopro.

John Nantz
January 19th, 2020, 02:43 PM
... I just feel that since it's there project, they should put in for it ... But is that the wrong attitude?
Maybe. You're both getting something out of this, so it depends. More on this later.

... especially since I don't think someone trying to be professional like me, should shoot on a cellphone. And I am already buying other equipment anyway for other things. But is that the wrong attitude?
There is value in you doing this promotional video which can, in turn, help make for future paying gigs. Not only that, but you’re getting valuable training here from successful professionals have made a living doing this and that’s worth something to you. At least it would be to me.

Speaking of being professional, my older iPhone 6 (a hand-me-down from my wife who gets the newer stuff) does 60fps and your cam does 30fps, so wouldn’t the 60fps be useful in a shot? One of the martial arts potential clients viewing this promo video will never know how the video was shot so “looking professional” in the end product doesn’t matter at all, it will be the “story” you told that matters. And how well the story was told. How professional you look to the martial arts video clients probably doesn’t matter at this point, either, but how creative you can be to come up with work-arounds will.

As an example of storytelling, this video story by Iohan Gueorguiev is really good. He is no professional videographer (as can be seen) or a director, but, his storytelling is great. And, it was made using his smart phone. “I want to see the world: The North (1 of 2)” A documentary of a bike ride from the shore of the Arctic Ocean (Tuktoyaktuk, near the MacKenzie river delta, Northwest Territories) to British Columbia. Almost 1.7 MILLION views I want to see the world: The North (1 of 2) - YouTube There are a lot of good ideas in this video.
Every so often we read about a prospective client who looks for what gear the tog is using order to decide if they will be hired or not but I don’t think we’re there yet.

Brian mentioned about using a light stand but since you don’t have one but that would be nice to have in the kit anyway. Every videographer has kit they don’t use all the time but may be helpful at some point so you never can tell when the time will come. If you remember Paul R Johnson’s closet picture in Post #299, his closet is pretty full of gear, and even as a hobbyist I’ve got a lot of kit in my closet and scattered around the house ('cuz the closet is full).

Personally, I think a handheld phone shot of the important fast moving detail that’s needed will be not only just fine but necessary to tell the story properly. Because what is being videoed is moving fast the hand-held part won’t even be noticed. The viewer will be fixed on what is being shown and not if the “cam” is handheld. This is a martial arts story, not Hollywood.

Question: Where do people in Saskatoon advertise their stuff for sale on-line? Locally we have Craigs list but it doesn’t seem to be used there.

Ryan Elder
January 19th, 2020, 03:04 PM
Some stuff is on Craigslist once in a while. There is some once in a while on kijiji as well. I can look around. And maybe the video will still turn out well hopefully.

Brian Drysdale
January 19th, 2020, 03:38 PM
Well if I do that in the NLE though, then I have to zoom into the picture, which means I will have to shoot further back and loose more pixels then that way. I haven't tried the latest gopro.

I was talking about removing barrel distortion, which won't change your image size. However, I suspect you're using this term for the wide view, which is different.

If you wish to do this a 4k camera can be zoomed in to create an acceptable HD image from the original size.

Ryan Elder
January 19th, 2020, 04:01 PM
Oh okay I wasn't thinking 4K, just HD. In my NLE, it removes barrel distortion by stretching out the image more, which means it has to zoom in therefore. But is that the wrong way of doing it?

Brian Drysdale
January 19th, 2020, 04:58 PM
I expect there's some changes. it's personal taste if it's objectionable.

John Nantz
January 19th, 2020, 06:22 PM
This is a story … plus a promotion AND a sales pitch, all-in-one!

All good stories start out with an introduction, the opening lines, to get the reader hooked. Authors study openings and opening lines for a good reason.
The YouTube video starts out with the title: “I want to see the world: The North”, which is already a bit of a hook. Good title. The viewer clicks on the arrow to watch it and the opening shows our hero, a guy on a bike riding in a snowstorm yelling with someone who asks “What’s your name?” We learn the rider's (and author's) name. "Where are you going? We learn where the rider is going and all in a matter of seconds. What a great opening! Followed by another good clip (after the advertisements).

The big question is, what’s the opening of the martial arts video going to do that will get the viewer hooked?

Idea:
After the opening title (whatever) have a max 2 or 3 seconds showing the attacker getting knocked down by the victim.
Screen goes black or short transition to black?

Question: How did this happen?

Answer (explanation video) by the martial arts guru:
Now comes all the video you’ve been working on that shows how this was done or how to do the martial arts stuff. This is the sell part.
Every story has an ending. “Don’t be the victim! Learn how to defend yourself at …… Studio!
Ending by asking for the sale: Sign up and Start Today!

One problem: What, the same big guy who was knocked to the ground explains this martial art services??? Probably not a good idea. Need another actor here because we don’t want the Attacker selling his services to explain how he got K.O.ed. Maybe have the attacker wearing a black jacket but a white shirt when doing the explanation. Anyway, some kind of change there to make it look realistic.

Brainstorm by Casting Director: Heck, with the cam on wide then the videographer could act as the attacker!!!
The Attacker hits the Red Button (roll cam!) then runs to attack his victim.

Excellent. The more I think about this the more I like this idea.
Nothing against Ryan, this is called Creative Casting!
And it isn't the first time an actor played two parts; however, its probably the first time the videographer/director played a part.
We’re not only short on gear, we’re short on actors! Think creatively!

Edit, Sequel: Ooops! Sorry to say but there was a mis-communication in the opening-acting scenario and we now have an opening for a videographer and a director.
Edit #2: Another intro option, have the person doing the assaulting K.O. the victim then go to black with "Don't become a victim" or "How to not become a victim" (something like that) then move on to the regular promo demonstration video.