I was talking to a filmmaker I worked with before and he says I would do much better at filmmaking if I found a really good script, really good as in everyone, all the most talented people in my surrounding area, will one to be a part of it, and producers and funders will want to fund it, once they see a trailer made from all the talent and me that want to be involved.

But where does an aspiring filmmaker find these really good scripts though?

He is talking out of his rear end Ryan. Pie in the sky. If you sunk all your savings into a script from an Oscar winning writer, your friends would still screw it up the way they work, and the standard they are.

I'm so confused why professionals would keep wanting to work with these crazy projects, and who would be daft enough to invest in them with no chance of returns. Just dreamers - all of them from what you tell us.

There are web sites for want to be/ starting out script writers, but you need to dig through them to find suitable scripts. This is why studios and production companies have script readers and whole development departments (although they deal with experienced writers who have agents).

This will involve a lot of work, checking hundreds of scripts to find something suitable.

From what you've shown to date, you'll have to move up a few gears in all of the departments for producers to want to look for funders (they won't put in their own money to shoot a film). They know the amount of work and time involved in putting these things together.

Oh okay thanks. One filmmaker I worked for, so far has gotten funding for two feature films so far. However, she has to make them the way the funders want them made, and maybe this is a good thing to get the money, but maybe it's bad too, if the funders have a lot of control I thought.

You have to get real, funders will always get the final cut. It's called show business for a reason and the second word has greater weight than the first.

Oh okay. She told me if I can raise the money another way to do it, cause she found that working with funders was way too restricting and it caused production problems for her, if that's true.

It will depend on who the funders are, but they will always be across the production and what she may regard as "production problems" may be what is required when working on a production that has to meet certain legal requirements.

It's part of a directors job to work the politics and fight for what they want, very few directors have total control, even big name ones and it takes years to get that. Shorts are probably the only films where you will get total creative control unless you're Stanley Kubrick.

Yeah for sure, it's normal not to have the final cut or final say. However, if the funders want parts of the script to be changed, and the actors are asking the director way the characters and plot have changed, and why their characters are now doing this, instead of that, etc... and the director's answer is because that's the what the funders want it, does it look as director, if that's the reason?

You don't tell actors stuff like that, you're the director if you're not happy with the script or the changes you can walk away from the film. You argue to case with the funders/producer, it's nothing to do with the actors.

If you work on TV dramas you have to deal with the executive producers etc, it's part of the job, playing the politics.If you can't do this, don't bother with directing.

A while back I read a book “Tales from the Script: 50 Hollywood screenwriters share their stories” that had a lot of viewpoints from various scriptwriters. The book itself has really mixed reviews but as a non-scriptwriter I found it interesting. [Our library has very limited books for video]. As an aside, as teen I had a neighbor who was a best seller author of novels and she wrote a script for a musical that got partially produced but never made.

One filmmaker I worked for, so far has gotten funding for two feature films so far. However, she has to make them the way the funders want them made, and maybe this is a good thing to get the money, but maybe it's bad too, if the funders have a lot of control I thought.

Much of life is a balancing act. As Kenny Rogers says in The Gambler: “You got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em.” And money talks.

I keep coming back to “Dirty Dancing”, a film made in 1987, turned down by it seems every studio, bad (initial) ratings by the “trade experts”, filmed in 43 days (!), low budget, eventually made millions and after over 30 years still making money. Proved all the experts wrong. The producer, Aaron Ruse, after seeing it was quoted as “Burn the negatives and collect the insurance.” There was a big, na … huge, gap between how the trade people viewed it vs how the public wound up thinking about it. (Wikipedia)Heck, when Elvis Presley started out none of the big TV Chanels wanted to air him then Ed Sullivan did but only from the waste up (I understand). And he is still making money! Watch “Blue Christmas” duet with Elvis and Martina Mcbride (who was not even 2 years old when he first sang the song. Yes, it is a duet, 40 years later, but with green screen. Haunting.)

It seems that knowing “what to run with” is a bit of an art in itself. It takes conviction, “the ability to roll with the punches” from the nay sayers, and the ability to put something good together, timely, and on a budget. In the trade, as in basically any trade, it’s a lot about what you know and who you know, both for input and for support.

As a professional development approach one path to consider is while chasing the dream (and one needs a dream), start making movies (or films, whatever) and cranking them out. Develop relationships (also known as resources) in the trade. Connections. Work the way up the ladder, build a repertoire and a resume. It might mean doing videos for commercials, relators, companies, local TV docs, sport events, dance schools, etc. Whatever it takes. This will help bring in money, build kit, get to using more of the tools of the trade and build confidence.

To become the Captain of a cruise ship it may mean starting out doing boat deliveries, doing boat maintenance for others, then with ones own boat, doing gigs like boating lessons, tours, taking out sport fishermen, and working the way up. Nobody is going to be given a cruise ship Captain job, it has to be earned. Life is short, time to get crackin’.

Ryan - good info and ideas here ...

Screenplay/Writing (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?25-Screenplay-Writing)

Cheers.

Allan - that's a nice link.

Then there is the book (Kindle Edition) "Tales From Development Hell", The Greatest Movies Never Made.
Featuring a lot of big names.

That's enough to discourage anybody.

After reading the overview, if one had any loose cash it might be better to toss it into the stock market instead.

Oh okay thanks, I was already on the DVX user sight before. I can check it out again.

As for playing the politics of what the producers want, isn't telling the actors that's what the producers want, part of the game though, or what do you tell the actors as a result? I didn't think that arguing with the producers or funders was a good idea, cause what if they pull out?

Ryan, on that forum the stickies will be helpful and click back aways, there’s good stuff back there that’s relevant today.

John thanks for that good tip, I’m a Kindle fanboy and I looked it up but no go. Assuming the title’s correct, can you post the authors name. Thanks.

Cheers.

If your boss tells you to make something happen, and then you tell your staff that your boss wants this to happen - then two things rise up.

One - your people treat you as an intermediary. None of your 'decisions' are really yours, but you are just a postman - respect for these decisions dies.
Two - the more outspoken ones will bypass you and go to the real boss. Cut the Director out and take their good idea to the Producer. Worse - if that person likes the idea, they tell the actor it's a good idea and force you to do it, which puts you below the actor's status and level on the hierarchical pyramid.

If you want something done - take ownership of the idea, good or bad and make it happen.

Of course the producers are the real peak of the pyramid, but the people below you do not need to know this. If there are tough decisions to be made - then the Director is the person their pleasure or wrath is pointed at - NOT - the producer.

As for playing the politics of what the producers want, isn't telling the actors that's what the producers want, part of the game though, or what do you tell the actors as a result? I didn't think that arguing with the producers or funders was a good idea, cause what if they pull out?

No it's not, you may give what the producer's want, but you rhen make it your own, that's your job as a director. Don't tell the actors anything about these discusions, it's between you the producers and possilbley another person, e.g. the editor. Experienced editors are used to this and usually know when to ignore what the producer is saying or makes a small change that keeps the producer happy.

You put forward your case for why what you're doing is better than what the producers or funders want. You're a senoir person on the production, so you're entitled to put forward your case. You'll be a poor director if you just roll over without debating it and they won'r respect you. Compromises are always possible.

Oh okay thanks, I'll do that then. I thought the actors were probably fully aware that the producers were the boss. But I can do that.

So when it comes to purchasing someone else's script, how much percent of a movie's budget should be put towards the script purchase do you think?

The actors are interested in their relationship with you as the creative person. In TV the producers have more say, the director is the more the hired help on an episode, on a feature the director is selected as a key creative on the whole project.

Regarding the script percentage, it's how long is a piece of string, your whole film's budget would be only a part of the cost final cost of a script written by a professional writer.

The script budget is separate to the production budget, although the writer may receive their final payment on the first day of principle photography.

Actors are rarely aware of ANYTHING apart from their own contribution. Many don't understand money or how life works. Their agents, however, do!

Ryan: Wow. Something I can actually help with. I've had two features produced, wrote an entire season of a produced TV show, and produced more commercials than I can count. I've got stuff on IMDB and lots that isn't on it.

Bottom line: Expect to be disappointed. Expect talent to be a pain in the ass. Expect crew to be hot dogs who think their shit doesn't smell. Expect to get hassled by the union if it's a union show, and forget about it getting distributed if it isn't. However, there is the fact that it's a really good feeling to watch an audience watch your flick.

Consider doing a non-union, limited locations (a city isn't a location, something in that city is) piece. Put it online. What you learn from that you can put to use on a bigger project.

Ah yes unions *sigh* I ran into *Eckers Aquity more than once.

It’s always the little guys with thin voices that run it.

I used to drive them nuts by saying “We’ll sort this out by having a face to face meeting.” I’m 6’2”.

*Actors Equity.
Cheers.

Oh okay thanks. So distributors do not want to distribute non-union movies then? I worked for another filmmaker who got distribution on his feature, so I didn't think you needed union therefore.

Since it's extremely unlikely that you'll get a theatrical distribution, it's unlikely that any union issues will be involved. There are other revenue streams that are less concerned about union crewing and it may be less of an issue in Canada.

Distribution covers a wide area other than theatrical and I know a producer on another forum who makes feature films and they're non union. Bar in mind, just because a film gets distribution doesn't mean that it makes a profit or even makes sales.

Oh okay, well I wasn't counting on theatrical. One filmmaker I worked under so far, has gotten distribution through Amazon Prime so far.

When it comes to union though, how many people on the production have to be union for a whole production to be considered 'union'?

It's a US thing, the whole crew would be union and there are a number of unions. https://filmmakeriq.com/2012/09/a-guide-to-hollywood-unions/ However, non union films do get made and union members generally start out on non union productions. There are right to work states in the US.

So, do you're own research on the film union situation in Canada.

Oh okay, the one shoot I was on so far that got distribution, at least two crew members were union, but not everyone was though. So maybe in Canada, not everyone has to be then.

Well as far as finding scripts go, I was selected to co-direct that feature next year I mentioned before, and they are looking for funding. It's not really my kind of script but perhaps I could fund it anyway if they are haven't been able to obtain a lot yet. But would that be the best move, in order to have a co-directing opportunity is the thing...

May be that feature film is just after your money.

Oh maybe, but they didn't ask for any so far, and are trying to get funding from other sources, but no one has asked me for any.

Also, if it's not your kind of script, why are you even considering co directing? That has the hallmarks of a disaster.

Because I was given an opportunity and thought I shouldn't pass it up though, and still try to do a good job. Plus I thought that a director starting out not being able to direct passion products and taking what they get was normal, or so I was told before. See this is why I find some of the advice contradictory, cause I am told to get on what I can and stop wanting to make a passion project myself. So I am given this opportunity, and now I am saying don't do it if it's not something I am passionate about.

Don't get confused about passion projects, the question is more about what you can bring to the feature.if it's not your kind of script. Even more important perhaps, is this a good script?

The script is not bad at all, it's more on the bigger budget sci-fi side, but looking at the other director and producer's plan, they seem to have a solid plan on locations and production design so far.

The only thing is, is that it feels like another rip off of The Hunger Games, like Maze Runner or Divergent or something like that, or just another familiar take on it, like I've seen before. So maybe this can be enjoyable, I just don't if it will get lost in shuffle, if we've seen this kind of thing before, that's all. But it's not bad per say.

Many of these low budget genre films are rip offs of other films, they're just aiming at a known market.

Yeah that's true, It's just if it's a rip off than the competition is more, cause you are getting people to compare to another previous movie then, rather than trying to create a more original story. But I can do it, since I felt like it was a good opportunity that was offered to me, if they get the funding.