John Brawley has started to release several short BM 4K pocket camera films, any M4/3 shooters out there considering this camera for weddings? I have heared that when you buy resolve studio you get the camera for free :)

I probably will get one as i had some intentions to use Davinci resolve more and instead of paying for the studio version I might as well Pay 1K extra and get the camera.

I”m surprised how little attention the camera gets now that finally some footage is being released. Now we only have to wait another year or so to get it in our own hands.

https://youtu.be/0Jyl4HeNh1s

Ha ha, your cynicism is well-founded. I watch this development with interest too and all else being equal I might get one just for the hell of it. I still have the original sitting in a cupboard somewhere unused and definitely unloved.

Yes, probably lots of time to save the pennies…

Cheers...

I have one on order since it was announced. Though I had the original on order but cancelled as I got fed up waiting. Still I'll hold out here as it does as Noa points out include the software that I was thinking of buying anyway.

I'm not sure it's suited to Wedding work, but that won't stop people using it. Though for my kind of Wedding work, it would be impractical. If I was more Wedding Highlights delivery rather than Full Length....

However I do several Promos a year and in this, I think this camera would be ideal. For Weddings, the need for handheld is too important. Even my GH5s gets only used as a B camera and Gimbal footage. I wonder how well the BM Pocket will work with my Ronin S. Not sure how easy it'll be to balance on it or if an update will allow control of focus. That will be a clincher in some Wedding use at least. Otherwise it's tripod shots and I hardly ever use these in Weddings except for static cameras.

I traded my pocket cam for a zacuto monitor, considering that the monitor is stil just over 1K and I only paid 500euro for the pocketcam that was a good deal :)

The new 4K pocketcam is a totally different camera then the original one, while the original one was just a sensor in a box this one offers a lot more for less money. As I believe it shares the same sensor as the gh5s so the low light capability has been dramatically improved and while still far from perfect it looks like a much easier camera to handle then the orignal one.
On another forum I allready see them complaining that the image doesn’t have the same “cinematic” mojo as the original one but at least 90% of the films I saw shot with the first pocket cam looked like crap because of bad colorcorrection.

To take advantage of the camera I think one would need a battery solution and an external SSD too so a rig would be needed. It may then start to cost close to the GH5S but would give higher quality file or RAW.

On another forum I allready see them complaining that the image doesn’t have the same “cinematic” mojo as the original one

"Cinematic mojo" is primarily lighting and set design and with the current crop of cameras that are out there right now, from the A7 III to the Red, you can achieve roughly similar results.

To take advantage of the camera I think one would need a battery solution and an external SSD too so a rig would be needed. It may then start to cost close to the GH5S but would give higher quality file or RAW.


On my pocketcam I was able to record raw onto plain sandisk extreme pro cards that had around 90mbs write.read speed. I guess it should be able to do the same on the new version?

I have the BM Video Assist 5 " that I think may be the screen and recording section of the camera. It eats batteries when recording. One battery may last 35 mins recording at best. I could not depend on it to record 1 hour with 2 batteries so now just use as a monitor. Even with just the screen on and no recording I use 3 batteries to cover a 2 hour show just using it as a 5" monitor. If you are going to use for an extended period I think an external battery will be essential. I do not think it is by accident that the camera has provision for external battery supply and also recording media.

"Cinematic mojo" is primarily lighting and set design and with the current crop of cameras that are out there right now, from the A7 III to the Red, you can achieve roughly similar results.

Right!

A camera simply records a scene like an audio recorder records music.

Sure a camera has to be of a good quality but the "magic" comes from the performance, the setting, the lights, the makeup, the camera movements, lenses, zoom etc not from the camera itself!

I have the BM Video Assist 5 " that I think may be the screen and recording section of the camera. It eats batteries when recording.

That still remains to be seen but you might be right, from what I have seen the new screen is much brighter, the old one was unusable in sunlight and I had to use a loupe.

On my pocketcam I was able to record raw onto plain sandisk extreme pro cards that had around 90mbs write.read speed. I guess it should be able to do the same on the new version?
The write speed of SanDisk Extreme Pro is 90MB/s i.e. way more than the bit rate of RAW video. I have some Lexar Professional 128 GB Class 10 UHS-II SDXC cards rated at 150 MB/s.

The write speed of SanDisk Extreme Pro is 90MB/s i.e. way more than the bit rate of RAW video.
The new BM Pocket camera is 4K.
Even 4:1 compressed 4K raw would already require 97 MB/s.

I think that is why it has a CFast slot. And for more economic recording the USB C for external SSD. We will have to wait and see what each slot is able to record but I expect the SD slot even with a V90 card will be limited in its recording.

Found this on the site https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/techspecs/W-CIN-12. So SD V90 cards will be needed for most of the recordings, limit Prores 422 for UHD other than HD. CFast will be need for most RAW at UHD. Not sure I would even trust a V90 being so close to its limit so ProRes LT is more in line for V90 I think.

I'm surprised that BM bothered with the CFast slot when they provide the facility to write direct to an SSD via a USB-C socket. Considering a 128GB CFast card is more than double the price of a 1TB SSD it would have made more sense just to have a slot for a 2.5" SSD.

BM makes more weird design decissions, like having a record button on the front of the camera and a red light so you know you are recording youself :)

BM worst decision is leaving it so long between announcement and delivery. You've lost the initial buzz and now with Nikon launching a fullframe mirrorless, Canon and Panasonic rumours of their own fullframe mirrorless camera, it's feeling a bit over crowded in the video buzz at the moment. If Panasonic were to offer a fullframe version of their GH line, I'd see that being more useful to me in Wedding work than the 4K pocket.

That rumored panasonic fullframe camera will most likely have a canon mount so get ready to buy a all new lensset if you heavilty invested in native glass like me. :)

That rumored panasonic fullframe camera will most likely have a canon mount so get ready to buy a all new lensset if you heavilty invested in native glass like me. :)

Yes but I can start with just 1 lens, a 24 to 70 2.8 is a favourite and would provide me with better lowlight without resorting to 1.2 apertures on my 4/3s system.

BM makes more weird design decissions, like having a record button on the front of the camera and a red light so you know you are recording youself :)
It's normal to have the tally light on the front of the camera. It's to let the talent know that the camera is "live" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_light

I know that it’s normal to have such a recording light on the front with videocamera’s but I remember seeing a BM representative mentioning they put it there especially for vloggers. I only think it won’t be a popular vlogging camera if it has a fixed lcd screen.

Yes but I can start with just 1 lens, a 24 to 70 2.8 is a favourite and would provide me with better lowlight without resorting to 1.2 apertures on my 4/3s system.

But being able to shoot wide open all day long at f1.2 or f1.4 is one of the advantages of m4/3, with full frame that would almost be impossible as the razorthin dof would be unmanagable. That means you’d shoot at f2.8 on a FF for a similar result but you would need a higher iso to compensate so here I don’t see how that would result in better low light?

But being able to shoot wide open all day long at f1.2 or f1.4 is one of the advantages of m4/3, with full frame that would almost be impossible as the razorthin dof would be unmanagable. That means you’d shoot at f2.8 on a FF for a similar result but you would need a higher iso to compensate so here I don’t see how that would result in better low light?

Thing is Noa, I've worked with Sony full frame footage from a colleague's camera. It's cleaner and still maintains some depth of field. I can never get my cameras that clean even at 0.95 aperture. So it's possible. Now this maybe not from a 2.8 lens. And to get that results, I would need to invest. I've no issue with that.

In the meantime a good 2.8 zoom lens would be welcome. I find the Panasonic 12 to 35 too sterile and less aesthetically pleasing as my primes. If a great Canon lens or another make can give me a nice zoom. I've considered the 18 to 35 sigma, but the adaptor puts me off.

It still remains to be seen if a full frame GH type of camera will be that much cleaner then a GH5S considering you will have to push it to a higher iso to maintain a dof that is managable. I never had to use neatvideo on my GH5 or GH5s though, not even for candle light venues but I only use fast primes in the evening with the exception of my GH5S where I use my 40-150 f2.8 for speeches with no issue, the only camera in my camerabag that produces noticeable noise when pushed is my sony ax100.

the only compelling reason I would see for switching to full frame is if you like the look you can achieve because of a much shallower dof, something that is harder to achieve on a small m4/3 sensor, even with a speedbooster. It won't however make you more money or get you extra bookings.

the only compelling reason I would see for switching to full frame is if you like the look you can achieve because of a much shallower dof, something that is harder to achieve on a small m4/3 sensor, even with a speedbooster. It won't however make you more money or get you extra bookings.

To be fair I never use Neat Video either and much of the time I'm very happy with low light video from my cameras. Having worked with Sony full frame, you can't help but see the difference. Even compared to the GH5s. And in some situations I am in, any advanatage no matter how small can be useful.

That said, I think my real reason is that shallow depth of field. Not for the super shallow depth of field but more because I was doing a promo and the guy hiring showed me a video where the interviewee had a nice shallow background, which they wanted to duplicate in the video I was doing for them. However I struggled as the room was small. Give me distance and the 75mm or even 42.5 and I can get a good shallow background. But I didn't have the room. Full frame would help here.

And no it wouldn't make me more money. Or get me more bookings. The GH5 didn't do that, so why should any other camera. However it can help me in my work and give me options. I'm interested and I think you'd be too if it came out.

I'm interested and I think you'd be too if it came out.
Only if it's autofocus would be as good as the sony a7III, if not I"d rather put my money into some Olympus f1.2 primes. :)

The fact the BMPCC4K supports timecode input means this would be a great choice for anybody doing a lot of multicam shooting.

The fact the BMPCC4K supports timecode input means this would be a great choice for anybody doing a lot of multicam shooting.

My GH cameras have timecode, and I don't see the BMPCC4K camera as a good multicam option in say something like a Wedding Ceremony. More indie movies, documentaries, promo videos and music videos.

I don't think that timecode is all that important for small scale event shooters when PluralEyes makes syncing multicam footage so easy nowadays.

The BM 4K pocket camera does look interesting especially for the price but the newly announced Nikon Z6 is going to be far more useful for shooting weddings.

In what way is that Z6 more usefull for weddings?

In what way is that Z6 more usefull for weddings?
It looks like a Sony A7 iii but with nicer colours & the possibility of 4-2-2 10-bit log files. The Nikon also has a better EVF & larger LCD. It looks like the 5-way IBIS might be better too.

The BM lacks both IBIS & AF which may be OK for purists but does make shooting fast moving events like weddings a lot harder. It's also MFT rather than FF.

I was intrigued by the Nikon. I prefer Nikon to Canon anyway and Sony has never grabbed me. It still has some limitations but it's worth getting interested over if fullframe mirrorless is something you're after. For me, the news of the Panasonic fullframe is more exciting. I shall be interested if the end of September announcement rumour turns out to be true.

I'm still interested in the BM Pocket 4K. I would like to experiment with RAW and performing professional colour grading. It'll be more a hobby camera until I feel comfortable to use it on Promo videos. It's marketed as a cinema camera. Not really run n gun material at all. A camera you need to spend time with to get great shots and Weddings are alas not so forgiving.

The new Canon FF mirrorless camera just got announced. It looks like a good stills camera but less interesting for video with heavily cropped 4K. In fact it's pretty much like a cut down mirrorless 5D4 at 2/3 of the price. On the plus side it does have C-LOG & 4-2-2 10-bit HDMI out & an APS-C crop mode like Nikon FX/DX. There is also a nifty drop-In filter mount adapter with a variable neutral density filter.

There are currently only four new EOS-RF lenses announced but the 28-70mm F/2L sounds interesting. EF & EF-S lenses can be used via an adaptor but not EOS-M which has got to make you think that line may not have long to live.

https://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-r/specifications/

I see the new Canon has the video clip limit of 29 mins. When will this silly limitation be allowed to die.

I see the new Canon has the video clip limit of 29 mins. When will this silly limitation be allowed to die.
When the EU stop charging 4.9% duty on camcorders I suppose. 95% of users buying a camera like the new Canon are only interested in still photos & presumably the camera manufacturers feel they would be at a disadvantage if the price was slightly higher than a competitors camera. I guess Panasonic thought that there was no competition for the GH5 so that doesn't have the limit but it is slightly more expensive than it would be with the limit.

When the EU stop charging 4.9% duty on camcorders I suppose.
It's so silly, duties are designed to protect the domestic market. Think of all those domestic video camera manufacturers like....eh..., well, I suppose the whopping 4% duty will discourage consumers from buying a Japanese camera and instead go for an ARRI. :)

When the EU stop charging 4.9% duty on camcorders I suppose. 95% of users buying a camera like the new Canon are only interested in still photos & presumably the camera manufacturers feel they would be at a disadvantage if the price was slightly higher than a competitors camera. I guess Panasonic thought that there was no competition for the GH5 so that doesn't have the limit but it is slightly more expensive than it would be with the limit.

Aside from the fact the clip limit isn't limited to EU, theres the small matter that Canon charges more for their gear anyway; makes me thing there not that worried about extra costs. I don't think they care. Or at least they don't take video in such cameras at all seriously. A gimmick or just lip service that caters for a minority of users. The Nikon trumps the Canon in key features for video. I'll be very interested in Panasonic's announcement on the 25th. Also to see what Sony brings through next. Even Fuji have another camera in the works I believe. There's talk of 10 bit and 50p 4K. Canons a dead duck.

My GH cameras have timecode, and I don't see the BMPCC4K camera as a good multicam option in say something like a Wedding Ceremony. More indie movies, documentaries, promo videos and music videos.

The GH5 doesn't, the Panasonic GH5S does!

Leaked: the specs of the Panasonic GH5S, & *FINALLY* we get the first stills camera with timecode I/O! – David Peterson (http://ironfilm.co.nz/leaked-the-specs-of-the-panasonic-gh5s-finally-we-get-the-first-stills-camera-with-timecode-i-o/)

Although it kinda disappointed me with a bit of a flawed implementation :-/

The BMPCC4K should be better!

And got my fingers crossed timecode will work better on the new Nikon Z6/Z7 as well.

I don't think that timecode is all that important for small scale event shooters when PluralEyes makes syncing multicam footage so easy nowadays.

The BM 4K pocket camera does look interesting especially for the price but the newly announced Nikon Z6 is going to be far more useful for shooting weddings.

Lots of times when Plural Eyes might fail:
Windy days.
Wide shots.
Shots through windows.
Far off tele shots.

The GH5 doesn't, the Panasonic GH5S does!



My mistake. I was confusing with the timecode feature in the GH5 rather than timecode inpit/output. Not a feature I have used or even looked into. Obviously as I've only 1 camera with it. Still won't help me with the 4K BM. I won't be using it for multicam. I have my own system for syncing and works well even when filming Ceremonies outdoors.

If I use 4 camera's at a ceremony I just let them run for an hour and sync manually in post, takes less then 5 minutes. I don't think weddingshooters worry about timecode. It looks like BM wanted to please as many groups as possible with this camera but I believe they are wrong about vloggers as that was one of their talking points when the camera was announced, this is not a vlogging camera and it takes more then a extra record button on the front front to make it one.

Timecode I/O is important if one is using lots of other equipment but if the cameras are all GH5 or GH5S they can use the app to set all their internal timecode the same. Since even the GH5S relies on the stability of its internal clock set with the cellular clock time is just as good with out continuous jam sync. So all GH5's can be set this way. Ihave both my GH5 and GH5S with the same time.

I see Fuji have stepped up with 10 bit 4K 60p. Albeit 4:2:0. First Nikon, then Canon, now Fuji and soon Panasonic's assuming it is what the rumours say it is. Have we ever had such a large group of announcements over mirrorless cameras in such a small space of time before?

And we still yet to see the BMP4K in the stores. In fact it may well be beaten to shops by the cameras only recently announced. Not sure if that's a good thing really. We are getting footage but it's thunder is stolen by these new cameras. That said, I'm not cancelling my order. It's cheap for what it is and a bargain with the software. Be nice if I got it in time for my Birthday in October. But I'm not holding my breath. :)

With how affordable the Atomos Ninja V is, then the competition is heating up for the BMPCC4K with all these new cameras from Fuji and Nikon offering 10bit external as well

I am waiting for the Atomos Ninja V so that I can record from my GH5 and GH5S UHD 60P 10bit.

I see Fuji have stepped up with 10 bit 4K 60p. Albeit 4:2:0. First Nikon, then Canon, now Fuji and soon Panasonic's assuming it is what the rumours say it is. Have we ever had such a large group of announcements over mirrorless cameras in such a small space of time before?
The Fuji X-T3 is APS-C not FF.

The Fuji X-T3 is APS-C not FF.

I know. I was more talking about the large number of mirrorless announcements in recent weeks. Besides Canon isn't technically fullframe either if you're shooting 4K. :)

I know. I was more talking about the large number of mirrorless announcements in recent weeks. Besides Canon isn't technically fullframe either if you're shooting 4K. :)

They're not even APS-C!

I'm surprised that BM bothered with the CFast slot when they provide the facility to write direct to an SSD via a USB-C socket. Considering a 128GB CFast card is more than double the price of a 1TB SSD it would have made more sense just to have a slot for a 2.5" SSD.

If you use up the usb-c port for storage then you cannot use it for portable power - you can power the camera via the usb-c slot with a small power pack - so with CFast cards and small attachable power pack you can shoot RAW video for hours.

This camera is designed for handheld use, without a rig (does not mean you cannot use a rig for better video in some cases). A 2.5" SSD slot would make the camera bigger. Small is the reason they keep "pocket" in the name (though it certainly is not pocketable). I like the design decisions.

If you use up the usb-c port for storage then you cannot use it for portable power .
Oh, that's a bummer!

There is absolutely no other way to power the camera apart from batteries when the USB-c port is in use for recording? Would we be able to use a fake battery connected to a power supply as is the case on the GH5?

This camera is designed for handheld use

Does it have sensor stabilisation?

Does it have sensor stabilisation?

No. So not really a handheld camera. Except you can carry it by hand and not mount on a shoulder. But really, it needs a tripod. Gimbal and other accessories to bring it to life. Latest rumours have it ready by the 5th October for delivery. It has to be out soon even if to a handful of early buyers. All this press they're engaging would seem silly if no one has the camera by the end of the year.