hi guys

After some advice please.

I record junior lacrosse games and post highlights for parents on youtube / facebook via google drive or private cloud, games recorded using a simple panasonic v380 camcorder and the cyberlink powerdirector tool.

The nature of the sport is that its normally in a field in the middle of nowhere on a winter day (season from oct to april). I tend to record the whole 1hr 15 mins or so in 1080p at 50fps in mp4 and then edit the vids down into highlights later on (with zoom and slow-mo).

I was looking at live streaming options for cup games via the camcorder wifi itself, and luckily the panasonic came with a Ustream account. However, Ustream (now ibm video) are dropping their free service for live streaming from September, and panasonic are not planning to offer any firmware upgrades or alternatives to Ustream (despite my protests).

So I want to be able to stream to an online service and record at the same time, using the optical zoom of the camera and saving locally on the camera at the 1080/50 whilst uploading say 720/30. I dont know how others are doing this, but I tried Donalds method which unfortunately doesn't seem to work on the panasonic cameras.

I have looked at a number of options, with the 'lukilink' and the Aliexpress 'Wireless-wifi-HDMI-Encoder-for-IPTV-Live-Stream' seeming to be the obvious options. I also read up on the 'HDML-Cloner Wand'.

but I wondered what others had tried and if they had come up with a generic solution that doesnt break the bank, and 'works!'.

Thanks very much

John

YouTube supports live streaming.

I would use something like a Teradek Vidiu or Cerevo encoder and stream live to the internet (wired or wireless).

Hi John,

I bought one of them encoders you are talking about and it was the biggest load of Crap I ever bought.

I have got a Cerevo Liveshell Pro unit off Ebay used and its great and I am sorry I did not buy one in the first place.

I have used my Liveshell Pro unit about a weekago Saturday to live stream a local Dragan Boat Regetta and I got 3 hours and 45 mins from the battery in the unit and I could have use a battery bank as well and got longer.

The unit I have does 720p max of a stream for the 3 hours and 45mins I used about 7.5Gb of internet usage over 4g mobile broadband.

You would want to get your hands on the Liveshell pro min or the livesell 2. There is an old one "liveshell" which dose max 420 which is ok but would not be bothered with it

Hi John

We do mainly wedding ceremonies so more often than not we are on the beach or in a park so we really need to be portable ... Our base system consists of just one Panasonic AC8 camera with a Livestream Broadcaster encoder on the cold shoe and a 4G router mounted on top. It works a treat, no hassles and no issues and we have done around 125 streams over the last 2 years. Be careful of buying any encoder that is too simple ... I have tried plenty of the cheaper ones that use an IP address but really the decent units (all made by Teradek actually) all have oled displays so you can see what's happening .. sooo important!! The Vidui Pro will allow you to stream to free CDN's but really I have found them to be so unreliable ..Facebook change their API on a regular basis which causes issues and both are very strict about any music stream (even ambient music playing from someone nearby) and that can stop your stream. We stream to Livestream.com which means we also can create an event page for each client and the encoder will also allow you to select the event before streaming ... the whole process is flawless and simple!!! You can. of course post it to Facebook as a link so people can find it too!

Thanks very much for the excellent advice. I will investigate each of the options you guys mention and see which I think fits for me.

I was also interested in 'overlays' having read about the new JVC GY250SP or JVC GY250SEB, the idea of having an overlay on a live broadcast when you can update scores, add graphics etc without carrying your laptop about sounds great (but would need to start saving now).

Of course, it would have been better in 4K at 60fps with its optical zoom ....

Anyone use overlays?

Hi John

...We stream to Livestream.com which means we also can create an event page for each client and the encoder will also allow you to select the event before streaming ... the whole process is flawless and simple!!! You can. of course post it to Facebook as a link so people can find it too!

For most of the recordings I have used Google Drive, the 100Gb option which is very inexpensive and you can control sharing AND post on FB even with 'toxic' sound on top, FB doesn't police Drive / linked sources.

However, and you may like this, I am investigating using NextCloud running on VMware (thanks to techandme), so that you can create your own personal cloud, on your own hardware at home, and share exactly with who and how you like (unlimited storage and no fees). I've got it currently running using No-ip on a dynamic dns. FB wont let you post a DDNS link on FB at all, but if you have your own domain, you can link via that.

Hi John,

Cerevo offer overlays via their dashboard and I have used it a few time but not many. Hope to try it out with putting a logo over a live stream. I like the dashboard now but it took a but of getting use to as its abit different on the phone/tablet compare to a brower on a pc/laptop.

Cerevo unit also mounts on top of the camera in the cold shoe. Thay have a new one that can do upto three steams and record to a sd card at the same time

So I want to be able to stream to an online service and record at the same time, using the optical zoom of the camera and saving locally on the camera at the 1080/50 whilst uploading say 720/30. I dont know how others are doing this, but I tried Donalds method which unfortunately doesn't seem to work on the panasonic cameras.

I have looked at a number of options, with the 'lukilink' and the Aliexpress 'Wireless-wifi-HDMI-Encoder-for-IPTV-Live-Stream' seeming to be the obvious options. I also read up on the 'HDML-Cloner Wand'.

but I wondered what others had tried and if they had come up with a generic solution that doesnt break the bank, and 'works!'.

Thanks very much

John

The chinese Aliexpress option is a good low budget choice , just got it myself and going to give it a try soon for live video monitoring on set with my sound cart.

https://youtu.be/iBYrv9FjoQE

If that's anything like the Chinese one I had it was a disaster so I hope yours works better .. what bugged me was you have to use a phone to control it and the IP address varies all the time. When I have an audio mixer, camera and encoder to have to try and control another device like a phone or tablet just makes it harder! Let us know what you think .. I went back to Teradek broadcasters which at least have a full oled display so the device itself tells you what is going on.

I spent 2 days with the tech guy at the factory using team viewer trying to get mine set up before I quit !!

I also had problems with mine as in some days I could get it to stream to youtube and not others and it was the same trying to stream to facebook. Even trying to stream local as in from the encoder to tablet was a nightmare to get working.

I also went back to my Liveshell Pro as it works and I also like Chris I can see whats happing on the screen on it once it's setup.

My encoder from china has ended up in a box to be pulled apart for parts and I have also taken the battery holder off it as I have use for on another project.

The reson I bought it was it took the same battery as my sony camera and if the battery was going low I just swap it out.

This limited review of streaming devices just came in this morning’s email:
Portable Streaming Encoders Shrink and Grow - Streaming Media Producer (http://www.streamingmedia.com/Producer/Articles/Editorial/Featured-Articles/Portable-Streaming-Encoders-Shrink-and-Grow-126789.aspx)

Interesting topic as I'm about dive into live streaming and was wondering where I start and gear required.

Hi Simon

I thought you were already streaming. As already mentioned we have been with Livestream now for over 2 years and it has been a good experience. Using their Broadcaster encoders we can go out with a fully portable single camera just with an encoder on the cold shoe and a 4G router (Did a wedding ceremony on the beach yesterday so taking complex cameras/computers on an area of tricky access was a no no) For more sane locations our subscription gives us free switcher software and each client has a unique event page for their gig ..unlimited viewers and unlimited DVR storage too which is important.

Just bear in mind that you really need a router/encoder setup that can use a Cat5e ethernet connection as wifi at some events is flaky if you have people at the event all using their mobile phones! Also be very careful with music copyright on FaceBook and You Tube ..they will ping you and stop your stream for ANY commercial music even if it happens to be coming from some guy walking past you in the street with a boom box on his shoulder!!

Thanks for the info Chris,

I was about to stream (solo) a few years ago them my business & cameras changed so that was the end. I'm now adding streaming to my list of things again as a solo production.

I was doing a lot of streaming into a Tricastor then out to YouTube however this was a small team, now I'm solo and on the old budget.

Music Licensing, yeah tough one. I can get around this as I'll have a commentator so the only audio will be his/her mic with no outside influence creeping in.

Sounds good Simon

What I use if I need a solo shoot with multicameras is use my main camera into the switcher and then plug in a couple of Logitech 930e conference cams for cutaways and that's quite manageable by one person ..I actually bought a Bunnings Garden trolley (originally for normal video) and have modified it now so it carries the laptop with switcher software and encoders/router ... make a neat package where you have the opportunity to sit down and stream!!

Nice rig mate.

I have single camera setup and I use it with the liveshell and a huawie E5770 modem as it has a cat5 socket in and I use it with my encoder. I have velcro on the top of the encoder for the modem which make it very easy to remove and use for other things. I have also linked the modem to my Roland video switcher for multi camreas been live steamed.

Nice Tony

I have a "u" shaped aluminium bracket so I can mount my Netgear Nighthawk router on top of the Encoder which has a cold shoe fitting so it just slides onto the cold shoe at the back of the camera. Just a short Cat5e cable links the router and encoder and then an HDMI cable from the camera to the encoder. .. Because we do a fair amount of single camera wedding ceremonies, I have an active 2 channel mixer than sits under the camera and mount the wireless receivers on each side.

Most of the time everything is on a 3 wheel dolly with a tripod on top but on the beach it's just a tripod ..I can hand hold too if I need to. We did have an issue yesterday on the beach with 4G coverage so I put the router on top of a 20' light stand and then ran Cat5e cable from the top back to the camera ...your camera is mostly static in beach sand anyway!!!

Really nice to see what other guys are using and share ideas too!!

A bit pricey, but a solid option is Wirecast https://www.telestream.net/wirecast/overview.htm . Hooks up via HDMI to a Magewell capture card to USB.

Doable. You can do alot with Wirecast, make it look professional with graphics etc. Or just a solid cookie cutter stream. I think you can also achieve this using OBS with VLC. Took me a while & seemingly roundabout way to do it, and I feel Wirecast just has more professional, corporate capabilities.

Wirecast is quite pricey but if you don't need software that will work with specialised capture encoders then you can't get much better than OBS which is FREE!! Stream to Facebook and YouTube .. definately worth a try ..they have a very helpful forum too.

We use the Teradek Broadcaster encoders on our remote cameras as well as Livestream for our CDN as we love the event page feature so we are tied to using Livestream Studio software ... the nice thing is it's also FREE if you use their CDN

Hi Chris,

How do the Teradek Broadcaster encoders rate v Livestream encoders.

I know price is different however is the Teradek worth it.

Hi Simon

The Livestream encoders are actually a Teradek Vidiu with specific firmware installed so they only can stream to a Livestream event page. The normal Vidiu unit can of course stream to Facebook and YouTube hence the extra cost. When we do events if suits us better to have a unique event page to stream to with minimal hassles so if clients want it on FB we just post a link. However if you are intending to stream exclusively to YouTube then the Livestream Teradek encoder is not for you so pay the extra and a Teradek Vidiu Pro encoder. Very interesting that the encoder can also receive an HDMI signal from a laptop (all you do is set it up as a 2nd monitor on the laptop) and use switching software on the computer. That way you can use quite a low spec laptop as the encoder does all the hard CPU intensive work ...We stream with 3 cameras and Livestream Studio software on a Duocore i7 laptop which goes out to the Teradek.

Thanks Chris,

So when yoru running three cameras to you use 3 x Teradek Vidiu Pro encoders? into a laptop and then stream out?

Hi Simon

Nope just one encoder to stream! 3 cams into the laptop and then the mixed HDMI output goes out to the encoder so the already mixed signal with graphics and lower thirds are streamed. Because we use Livestream Studio as our switcher two cutaway cams are directly into the laptop on USB and the main camera uses a Livestream Broadcaster Pro encoder (2nd one) to send the camera output to the laptop via wifi or via ethernet cable. The encoders can also act as remote cameras to give you a 5ghz wifi output or a cabled output.

Thanks Chris.

Cheers

Hi Simon

Just to give you an idea I'm doing a memorial service tomorrow so the setup is really simple. tripod on a dolly, single camera with HDMI out to one encoder mounted on the camera with the 4G router mounted on top of it. That's it ... simple but effective and a one man operation! Stream is going direct to Livestream event page and family and friends get the link!

Nice one mate, hope the gig goes well.
Cheers, S

How do you all handle internet connection? Just log in to the church/venue wi-fi?

I couldn't imagine relying on or assuming (or taking someones word for it) that they have internet & arriving the day of to find out. From not knowing the PWs, to it not being there, or strong enough to reach the back of the church etc...

Same with sports, a high school might have wifi but would they have it in the gym?

Not in a million years David !! "public" wifi is fine to check your email and most venues here have guest wifi but the uploads are very low indeed. Also most of our venues are outdoor like parks and beaches and today our funeral shoot is a small hall which most definately wouldn't have wifi!

We use 4G with a portable Netgear Nighthawk router and coverage is pretty darn good. I think in our local metro area there are just two places that have no signal at all as they are in deep valleys ...I normally get upload bitrates around 20mbps which is plenty. It's a little pricey in Australia at around $4.50 per gig but most shoots we do are less than an hour.

Why not use a Mevo camera?....It's now owned by Vimeo and made for live-streaming.

Hi Len

Not really ideal for sports though .. the super wide lens means that you need to use digital zoom to crop shots so an optical zoom or PTZ camera is probably better. You can of course bring the Mevo into Livestream Studio as a remote camera and it is great for wide shots then. It seems to work better thru Studio (even as a single cam) as you have the option of adding scoreboards and such graphics! It was originally designed as a live camera for your iPhone but the flaky wifi always was an issue .. works way better with the boost and an ethernet connection so wifi is not needed

Just a question on cameras for streaming, I'm finding it really hard to find a camcorder with clean hdmi out for the encoder, and something that will also work in bad weather (so a lens hood is required really, for keeping rain off the lens).

I was hopeful that one of the JVC quad proof designs would have a clean hdmi out and be threaded, or some from of rtmp encoder, but I cant find anything.

What are people using when livestreaming in bad weather, say from the sidelines of a football field?

We use Panasonic MDH2 shoulder mount cameras (In the USA they are AC-8) and mine have sustained many a shower (last weekend at a wedding it got pretty wet!) My cams run on a tripod and dolly so I have plenty of places to add an umbrella (don't laugh.. it's cheap and it keeps the cameras dry) The cams have a pretty good image and importantly a super smooth 20X zoom too. The way we look at it is we shoot on the beach and outdoors a lot and need a camera with a decent lens hood and a decent HDMI socket too (I destroyed 2 x Lumix cameras by not being careful with their minature microHDMI ports) Also once the salt air and rain make the camera un-usable it only costs us $1200 for a new unit and we haven't destroyed a $10,000 camera! Makes a lot of sense !!