Cliff Totten
November 14th, 2017, 01:04 PM
WARNING! - So this is a "niche-group" post for geeks that are interested in the image sensor market. (bizarre as it sounds...lol) If you have no interest in image sensor "nuts and bolts" or get offended by a "Panasonic cameras with Sony sensors" topic, than this post will be a waste of your time. ;-)
CHIPWORKS!;
ChipWorks (Tech Insights) is famous for taking high tech devises and disassembling them part by part. They don't just note part numbers and things like that. They go WAY deeper. They completely destroy the devise by desoldering the chips, and forensically investigate the schematics "inside" each chip. They X-ray and perform photographed cross sections of the "inside" of the chips. They break them down with electron microscopes and break the whole lithography and foundry of the chip down. It's a BRUTAL process! They then sell this data collected to other companies that want to know what the exact chip components are and what they do and how they do it. (electrically speaking) It's an amazing process and expensive too.
Image Sensor:
So, this year, ChipWorks (tech Insights) targeted the GH5 and identified it's sensor as the Sony EXMOR IMX272. I cant afford to buy the rest of the in-depth analytics report. (nor would I even want to) However, this does go a long way as to explaining why the GH5 turned out to be such a fantastic camera. This is the first Panasonic to camera that I know of, to ever benefit from a 5k/6k over sampling readout. In the past, Panny always relied on 1:1 readout. Sony's excellent sensor 6k collection and scaling engine has made it's way into the GH5 and I really attribute this as being the main reason why the GH5 does what it does today. For me, the GH5 was a HUGE improvement over the GH4. I never did like the GH4 at all but I'm in total love with my GH5 today.
GH5 was no "secret":
Sony does not sell sensors "blindly" to anybody....ever. If you are going to purchase a Sony sensor, they REQUIRE you to give ALL of your camera specs BEFORE the sensors are sold. "IF" Sony agrees to your specs, they place all of it into the contract of sale so you cannot add more to your camera via firmware update later down the road without Sony approval. Sony also uses this to adjust the sale price of their sensor. You want 4k? Price=$....you want 60p?...Price=$$....you want all of that in10bit?....Price = $$$$$$$!
So Panasonic chose DCI 4k, 60p and 6k/5k full pixel collection (no binning) and scaling with a 400Mbp/s Panasonic H.264/5 CODEC! I'm certain Sony must have charged Panasonic a VERY high price for that IMX272 sensor!
Again, this was all added to the contract of sale, so Sony saw this GH5 beast coming down the road long before we the public did. This also explains why Panasonic was unusually open about the GH5 long in advance of the release. Even with the announced future planned firmware roadmap. Again, unusual for a company to reveal it's cards sooo early, long before it's release.
Buy hey,...who did Panasonic need to keep it a secret from? Not Sony because they already knew everything. So, they let it all out early because there wasn't much of a need to have the "normal" camera secrecy on this one. You can also bet your life that Sony Silicon Semi Conductors passed that critical GH5 info on to Sony's camera division to give them the competition "heads up". Yes, they are two completely separate Sony companies.
"GH5-S" Rumor?;
The new Sony IMX292 sensor is now up for sale. This is a "low light" MFT Sony STARVIS sensor with a new quad cluster HDR mode. And get this,...it's 10bit, 4k, 120p! (you read that right,...120p) Yes, it does trade off the oversampling form the current GH5 and this sensor will amount to less density, larger pixels. So it wont have the GH5's resolving power but promises to have improved low light.
So, I know this is not a "rumor" thread. We have "Area51" for that. I just couldn't resist posting this Sony new image sensor here. This new STARVIS MFT sensor is not a rumor but a fact. You guys tell me....should Panasonic jump on this sensor and build a "GH5-S", low light, 10bit, 120p 4k camera? I'd bet my life they are at least looking at the possibility if not already deep into R&D. But who knows? ;-)
https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/may_2017/imx294cjk_e.html
So that's it. I hope I have not wasted anybody's time. This is pretty geeky stuff that is "TMI" for allot of people out here. But if this DOES interest you, I'd like to see your comments!
CT
CHIPWORKS!;
ChipWorks (Tech Insights) is famous for taking high tech devises and disassembling them part by part. They don't just note part numbers and things like that. They go WAY deeper. They completely destroy the devise by desoldering the chips, and forensically investigate the schematics "inside" each chip. They X-ray and perform photographed cross sections of the "inside" of the chips. They break them down with electron microscopes and break the whole lithography and foundry of the chip down. It's a BRUTAL process! They then sell this data collected to other companies that want to know what the exact chip components are and what they do and how they do it. (electrically speaking) It's an amazing process and expensive too.
Image Sensor:
So, this year, ChipWorks (tech Insights) targeted the GH5 and identified it's sensor as the Sony EXMOR IMX272. I cant afford to buy the rest of the in-depth analytics report. (nor would I even want to) However, this does go a long way as to explaining why the GH5 turned out to be such a fantastic camera. This is the first Panasonic to camera that I know of, to ever benefit from a 5k/6k over sampling readout. In the past, Panny always relied on 1:1 readout. Sony's excellent sensor 6k collection and scaling engine has made it's way into the GH5 and I really attribute this as being the main reason why the GH5 does what it does today. For me, the GH5 was a HUGE improvement over the GH4. I never did like the GH4 at all but I'm in total love with my GH5 today.
GH5 was no "secret":
Sony does not sell sensors "blindly" to anybody....ever. If you are going to purchase a Sony sensor, they REQUIRE you to give ALL of your camera specs BEFORE the sensors are sold. "IF" Sony agrees to your specs, they place all of it into the contract of sale so you cannot add more to your camera via firmware update later down the road without Sony approval. Sony also uses this to adjust the sale price of their sensor. You want 4k? Price=$....you want 60p?...Price=$$....you want all of that in10bit?....Price = $$$$$$$!
So Panasonic chose DCI 4k, 60p and 6k/5k full pixel collection (no binning) and scaling with a 400Mbp/s Panasonic H.264/5 CODEC! I'm certain Sony must have charged Panasonic a VERY high price for that IMX272 sensor!
Again, this was all added to the contract of sale, so Sony saw this GH5 beast coming down the road long before we the public did. This also explains why Panasonic was unusually open about the GH5 long in advance of the release. Even with the announced future planned firmware roadmap. Again, unusual for a company to reveal it's cards sooo early, long before it's release.
Buy hey,...who did Panasonic need to keep it a secret from? Not Sony because they already knew everything. So, they let it all out early because there wasn't much of a need to have the "normal" camera secrecy on this one. You can also bet your life that Sony Silicon Semi Conductors passed that critical GH5 info on to Sony's camera division to give them the competition "heads up". Yes, they are two completely separate Sony companies.
"GH5-S" Rumor?;
The new Sony IMX292 sensor is now up for sale. This is a "low light" MFT Sony STARVIS sensor with a new quad cluster HDR mode. And get this,...it's 10bit, 4k, 120p! (you read that right,...120p) Yes, it does trade off the oversampling form the current GH5 and this sensor will amount to less density, larger pixels. So it wont have the GH5's resolving power but promises to have improved low light.
So, I know this is not a "rumor" thread. We have "Area51" for that. I just couldn't resist posting this Sony new image sensor here. This new STARVIS MFT sensor is not a rumor but a fact. You guys tell me....should Panasonic jump on this sensor and build a "GH5-S", low light, 10bit, 120p 4k camera? I'd bet my life they are at least looking at the possibility if not already deep into R&D. But who knows? ;-)
https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/may_2017/imx294cjk_e.html
So that's it. I hope I have not wasted anybody's time. This is pretty geeky stuff that is "TMI" for allot of people out here. But if this DOES interest you, I'd like to see your comments!
CT