At a wedding i covered recently the grooms mic failed and the back up I positioned (on the little kneeling things) was moved and of course the priest didn’t use the church mic’s either, he just projected. So everything that could go wrong (audio wise) did.

I had to resort to the two on baord mic’s that is on my DSLR cameras. I have worked on this audio in FCPX using all the tools that I know within that package to bring the audio along as best I can.

My question is; if I hired someone could they do much more to improve it?

The wav file won't upload

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1PC3Df73kqfbGRrbThKbzRXLUE/view?usp=sharing

"if I hired someone could they do much more to improve it?"
- Probably, depends how bad it is. It still would not be anywhere near as decent captured sound. Post a few medium resolution MP3 clips, there's plenty of Dropbox type file sharing sites around. Some of the members here and over at the DVX user (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?29-Location-Sound-Post-Audio) audio group have iZotope RX Advanced, which can do some pretty amazing stuff.

Sorry hear what happened. Weddings are fraught with all sorts of dangers.

I can't imagine an audio pro could improve it that much given the circumstances you describe. I would instead spend my money on a quality wireless mic kit where you can monitor your audio.

I assume you were using an audio recorder. Many people use them and get away with it but it's really a risky practice. Unfortunately it usually takes a catastrophe like this to convince someone the risk is real.

There are plug-ins such as Deverb to help combat the echo, but results can vary greatly in the best of circumstances (fixed location sound source and capture in a room with unchanging echo signature being a best-case scenario). Might be worth a try. There are also some advanced techniques using FFT filters to reduce the echo on certain frequencies. A YouTube search of "removing echo in audition" or whatever your audio program of choice is, will bring up some DIY options.

Start there, and if it's crucial to get it a few points better, then reach out to a professional.

Yeah echo is pretty hard to resolve, also cutting out the audio between the responses only serve to amplify the problem, I've had some small success with Audition capturing the noise print sample and using that to reduce it somewhat, but it seems you've already done that. Cant see much to be done after that, as it's baked in.
I'd leave it all in noise and all rather than try to isolate the responses, it sort of brings attention to the audio.

good luck with it

.

I assume you were using an audio recorder. Many people use them and get away with it but it's really a risky practice. Unfortunately it usually takes a catastrophe like this to convince someone the risk is real.

Hi Pete,

My experience over many years of recording weddings is that the most reliable recordings are from a small recorder in the groom's inside pocket set to record then locked, with a lav mic on the groom's jacket. On the contrary to your recommendation of a wireless mic, I only use mine for backup on weddings due to occasional interference, drop out problems and conflicting with the venue/church systems. I have never had a problem using a pocket recorder and consider it the least risky option for a wedding.

Roger

There are plenty of things that can go wrong with an audio recorder. To name a few: the lav cable gets pulled out or shorts from a stress point, you forget to press record or to lock it, the mic falls off or is rubbing against something, the levels aren't right...

I bring both to a wedding. My first option is the wireless if and only if there's a problem I use the recorder. Just because you haven't had anything go wrong doesn't mean it's not a risky practice. There's a reason the pros monitor their audio.

Remove Echo and Reverb from Dialogue Audio with 3rd Party Plugins - YouTube
and the sidebar links when viewed on Youtube can give you some ideas on how to improve the sound, and what is possible.

De-verb is now updated to De-verb Plus, a demo version is available for D/L for a 14 day trial. It works as a VST plug-in in Audition and other programs. However, do not expect miracles, some of your sample audio has pretty bad reverb.

There is no substitute for getting the mic close to the speaker, especially in noisy and and highly reverberant locations.

If you have a couple recordings made from different locations at the event it might be possible to get some improvement by mixing them so the direct sound (what you want) is additive (in phase) while the indirect (echo) sound would typically be less than additive due to phase differences.

I don't think this one can be greatly improved at all.

The in-camera mics on your DSLR simply aren't all that flash to begin with and you don't have the necessary proximity to the source that you need to keep when removing the room reverb / echo. (There has to be a threshold between the audio to be kept and the audio to be removed.)

Worse, when working on the file it sounds like I am uncovering the audio "mud" that you get from .mp3 audio compression (where the bits you don't normally 'hear' are discarded). This in addition to what I suspect is an auto-level function on the camera mic that is also playing havoc.

I think everything is working against you when it comes to this audio sample.

I've had a quick try with the latest tech "dialogue isolation" which separates based on voice / non-voice audio. Better but not perfect. Zipped file is attached. (Then there is the accent these people must be speaking with. :-P LOL) See what you think.

Andrew

I played around a bit with this but I don't really know what I'm doing. I just like pushing buttons.

Gordon

There's a reason the pros monitor their audio.

The problem with weddings is that once a ceremony is in progress you can't just interrupt the vows if your hear your audio system fails, the only difference between being able to monitor the sound and not being able is that you can hear your audio fail but you can't do anything about it, so much for being a "professional" :)

... I don't really know what I'm doing. I just like pushing buttons.

LOL. So true for many of us.

Andrew

I didn't recognise that accent!!!

lol

It sounded a bit Ayerish to me.

Andrew

I also take issue with the notion that a wireless lav is more reliable. True, if something goes wrong you will know about it sooner, but you are unlikely to be able to do anything about it anyway. Once the ceremony starts there is no way to adjust the grooms lav. That said, when we were doing weddings I preferred wireless when the venue allowed it, but mostly because of the time it saved synching everything. One more thing - always wire up the groom AND the officiant. That's a better backup than trying to plant something in the middle of the action which is likely to annoy the venue. You should also have a quality shotgun on the camera. Having nothing but the DSLRs onboard mics is a big fail.

The problem with weddings is that once a ceremony is in progress you can't just interrupt the vows if your hear your audio system fails, the only difference between being able to monitor the sound and not being able is that you can hear your audio fail but you can't do anything about it, so much for being a "professional" :)

Noa......you're absolutely right!

"if I hired someone could they do much more to improve it?"
- Probably, depends how bad it is. It still would not be anywhere near as decent captured sound. Post a few medium resolution MP3 clips, there's plenty of Dropbox type file sharing sites around. Some of the members here and over at the DVX user (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?29-Location-Sound-Post-Audio) audio group have iZotope RX Advanced, which can do some pretty amazing stuff.

Hi Rick I am going to try and see if anyone at DVX can do anything to improve it but I fear there is very little that can be done! I appreciate the recommendation. If I do get help here I will post the improvement for others to reference.

Yeah echo is pretty hard to resolve, also cutting out the audio between the responses only serve to amplify the problem, I've had some small success with Audition capturing the noise print sample and using that to reduce it somewhat, but it seems you've already done that. Cant see much to be done after that, as it's baked in.
I'd leave it all in noise and all rather than try to isolate the responses, it sort of brings attention to the audio.

good luck with it

I totally take your point about the amplify sections. I just worked on it for ages and I can't even hear it anymore. I will readjust the amplified sections. Thanks.

I don't think this one can be greatly improved at all.

The in-camera mics on your DSLR simply aren't all that flash to begin with and you don't have the necessary proximity to the source that you need to keep when removing the room reverb / echo. (There has to be a threshold between the audio to be kept and the audio to be removed.)

Worse, when working on the file it sounds like I am uncovering the audio "mud" that you get from .mp3 audio compression (where the bits you don't normally 'hear' are discarded). This in addition to what I suspect is an auto-level function on the camera mic that is also playing havoc.

I think everything is working against you when it comes to this audio sample.

I've had a quick try with the latest tech "dialogue isolation" which separates based on voice / non-voice audio. Better but not perfect. Zipped file is attached. (Then there is the accent these people must be speaking with. :-P LOL) See what you think.

Andrew

I played around a bit with this but I don't really know what I'm doing. I just like pushing buttons.

Gordon

Thanks for your attempts with this. The overall effect is very similar to the background remover that FCPX has build in....I am looking at echo remover from Fxfaxtory at the moment to see if this will give any further improvement.

If you can upload the file before any attempts at noise reduction (So the original file) I'll take a go and see what I can do. . I have RX6 and Acon Deverb and I'm pretty practiced on both. In the interim I'll see what I can do with the version you uploaded before.

Just did a quick listen on headphones and what you accomplished so far isn't too bad. I'll still take an attempt on a original file just to see but I think you're on the right track. You just need to work on things being more cohesive so you don't notice the processing so much. You don't want the background to fluctuate so much that it calls attention to itself.

If you can upload the file before any attempts at noise reduction (So the original file) I'll take a go and see what I can do. . I have RX6 and Acon Deverb and I'm pretty practiced on both. In the interim I'll see what I can do with the version you uploaded before.

Thanks Bernie you're a star!

Today I've messed around with echo reducers but haven't had any luck with that at all.

I have audio from 3 media sources, there was a zoom on a podium close by and then I had two DSLR cameras. One I was moving about so there are some pops and clicks...and the other was stationary.

I'll post all 3 here naming them accordingly.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1PC3Df73kqfZXdMSzlpd1JFV1k

P.S. After pulling all these files I'm starting to think they sounded better than when I started messing around with them! I only have final cut pro X for audio editing and audio mastering wouldn’t be my strong point!

I'll take a look at these later today. I like a good challenge! It helps me learn the software and figure out what's possible. I'm making no promises as to the final result but I'll do my best.
BB

Thanks BB

but please don't put too much time into it...I would hate to eat up your day! I have worked on it again today myself (taking some tips from here) and its probably as good as its going to get!

I'm making good progress. I think you'll like the result when I'm done. Don't worry about my time this is a great piece to train on. I'll upload them when I'm finished.
BB

Thanks Bernie you're a star!

Today I've messed around with echo reducers but haven't had any luck with that at all.

I have audio from 3 media sources, there was a zoom on a podium close by and then I had two DSLR cameras. One I was moving about so there are some pops and clicks...and the other was stationary.

I'll post all 3 here naming them accordingly.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1PC3Df73kqfZXdMSzlpd1JFV1k

P.S. After pulling all these files I'm starting to think they sounded better than when I started messing around with them! I only have final cut pro X for audio editing and audio mastering wouldn’t be my strong point!
Sometimes less is more. What I'm finding is the low volume of the vows doesn't bother me so much or the echo. Its a church after all. Its the random baby crying, the thunks from moving stuff, etc. that are closer to the mic than what you want to capture. I can work on those some and between the three sources I think you'll be able to put together a smoother sounding piece that will keep the viewers in the moment.

I'm making good progress. I think you'll like the result when I'm done. Don't worry about my time this is a great piece to train on. I'll upload them separately when I'm finished.
BB
Well I'm going to call it for now. Let me know how these cut together for you now. It was getting very time consuming trying to take out all the random sounds. I would checker board between the three sources and try to keep the edits cross faded so the background stays at a consistent level.
BB
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5Nu5nd6ltFtWWJ2ZlZUV0NnS0k?usp=sharing

Thanks so much this must have taken ages! I will be able to switch between the audio here depending on what's clearest for each section. This is my best chance of achieving a good sound.

I'll post an update on how I get on! I really appreciate your help and indeed everyone who has posted on this thread! Thanks a million!

You're welcome! It was great training and I learned a lot! Most of the time was spent figuring out what worked better and how far to take it. If you edit primarily with speakers I suggest you listen on good headphones as well to really hear artifacts or other problems. I'm looking forward to hearing how it turns out!
Best!
Bernie

I'd put a lav on the celebrant, and bride as well. Not just the groom.

Best man too if you can! And bridesmaid.

That way if the groom's fails in the future, you always have the celebrant or bride's one to use as a nearby source to cover you for the groom.

The problem with weddings is that once a ceremony is in progress you can't just interrupt the vows if your hear your audio system fails, the only difference between being able to monitor the sound and not being able is that you can hear your audio fail but you can't do anything about it, so much for being a "professional" :)

Very true! While having high quality wireless would be fantastic.

The truth is when filming a wedding solo (or even as a two person band) it is a lot and a LOT of work to juggle and manage all at once!! Unfortunately you will barely have time to monitor all the wireless all the time anyway.

Thus as much as a hate to say it.... using the likes of multiple Tascam DR10L (or a Lectrosonics PDR if you have the budget!) is a very reasonable compromise to make for weddings!

I feel more comfortable with a wireless on the groom because it's easier to do a sound check. While you cant do anything once it starts, you can monitor it and do something beforehand . Where as with a recorder if you forgot to press record or the batteries died you'd be none the wiser.

There's nothing wrong with using recorders. I use them to cover multiple sources for weddings too. One thing for sure there is a lot going on with a wedding, you really need to have reliable equipment, an organized and efficient process to deploy and use it, and to be mentally sharp under pressure. It's easy to forget or miss something.

Now that the OP has reached a resolution I have a question for the recorder vs lav discussion. I have read a lot of views on that in the wedding section and now here. But no one ever mentions "levels". For the recorder guys how do you deal with achieving proper recording levels?

There is no such thing as good AGC (auto gain control) on any recording device regardless of price. Some are just better than others. I do not like AGC and will only use it on back up records I hope to never use. The purpose of monitoring audio recording at all times is not only to hear problems it is to adjust the gain on the fly. Are you using AGC on your set it and forget recorders or are you guessing at a proper record level?

Kind Regards,

Steve

Most people just go conservative and raise it in post. One of the reasons the Tascam is popular it can record at two levels.