It's here!

JVC GY-LS300 Firmware v3.02 (http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/CAMERA/soft/gyls300_firmware_v3.0.html)

JVC Video Cloud sounds interesting. I've signed up to see what it can do...

It's great to see JVC still adding features. Whilst most of them are directed towards livestreaming, it's still a good thing.

BTW, when was the LS300 officially released?

I believe it was first seen at IBC 2014, and released early 2015.

I bought mine in August that year after holding out for a while. I watched the Heist promo video and thought it looked completely crap, especially considering that it was shot in a controlled environment. Once some better examples surfaced it appeared to make sense for me to buy it.

Thanks Duncan. and I agree with you, Heist 1 & 2 are a joke!

Ehy are they a joke. i thought it was good photography?

By the way. Has anybody tries the fw?

I have the firmware installed.
Not much to report, I did a test YouTube Live stream and it works OK.

Regarding Heist, it looked really cheesy, over lit and poorly acted. It could have been shot on any camera and did nothing to promote the LS300 at all.

What JVC really needed was a proper promotion that really explained why this camera was so good 2 years ago when it was announced! It already had 95% of what is has now.

My recent factory shoot has just been uploaded in 1080 and it's looks OK, even though YouTube has mashed it up a bit: https://youtu.be/jmLy1QbkNLE

I was hoping to find EXTERNAL 4k 60p as I heard in a german video from Japan last week.
Notjing like that here

No 4K60p yet no.

Marcello, have you bought the camera yet?

I'm not working in 4K much myself, except for my timelapse DSLR cameras. In case you didn't know, when using the LS300 in 4k/UHD you have very little VSM zoom capability. If you have control over a shoot and can spent time moving the camera around then VSM isn't much help, but for a lot of what I do, being able to zoom in digitally while maintaining the picture quality is fantastic.

No .. not yet... selling some gear to get cash.. don't want to end up as
a camera collector.

You heard too about extarnal 4k 60p yes? I am not crazy no?

I went to see and do some quick testa on the camera at the shop yesterday.
Everything as I expected alltjough I couldn't do intensive picture tests

I understand about the electronic zoom but I eipl be using that only in run n shoot mode, eng, interviews to be shot in hd
i need 4 k for corporate jobs.

i am buyingbthis camera to have ONE object to do two worlda... hope I am right

I recall that I saw a German reporter talk about the JVC but he didn't mention anything about 4K60p, you probably misunderstood?

We had this discussion already: https://youtu.be/9kn3F3INSWs

JVC GY-LS300CH 4K60p Support - Report von der InterBEE 2016

A paid firmware upgrade IIRC? Edit: Google Translate suggests it's free. Who knows:

From the YouTube description... 'Michael Lehmann-Horn has discovered a GY-LS300CH at the InterBE 2016 in Tokyo at the JVC booth, which can also process 4k60p. Although it can not record the signal itself, but with an external recorder such as the Shogun Inferno the 4k50p or 4k60p recording thanks to a new firmware is possible in the future. The Firmwareupdate 2017 will appear free of charge.'

It appears I recalled wrong, in this video he clearly says 4K50p is possible.

Great! So I was right.

My main concern now is only ONE.... What is the OUTPUT (HDMI) quality lie. I have found no tests.

This is the road that brought me to think of buying the LS300....

I own a Blackmagic BMPC 4K that I almost never use in RAW. I use in ProRes422 HQ at 400 ISO and I am supposed to have 12 stops of dynamic range. I like the ProRes file and find I can do many things with it in post and I find myself almost never doing WB anymore.
The downpart is that the camera is very dark (can't push it to 800 ISO without noise) and has no in-camera audio. When I have run'n'gun situations this camera is not ideal

What I thought is this...

Hey! The LS300 sensor is Super 35 like the BMPC and it's 4,6K and everybody says it's a good sensor and very sharp! At 400 ISO JVC claims 12 stop of dynamic range (like mine!) but can go up to 1600 with almost no noise artifacts! And there is in-camera audio, ENG ergonomics (almost), etc etc...

So.. <b>if I buy an atomos/blackmagic external 4K recorder I can record the HDMI output at 422 Prores and get EXACTLY what I am getting with my BMPC, maybe even better! </b>And I'll get tons of new features like wifi, variable zoom, MFT mount, variable cropping, etc...

The problem is that <b> I don't find any info on the HDMI OUTPUT SIGNAL.</b>
Is it 422? Or maybe even 444? (420 is NOT HDMI compliant)
Let's say it is 422 (probable).. <b>is it coming DIRECTLY FROM THE SENSOR or is it an UP-SAMPLED VERSION of the 420 signal that is being recorded?</b>

If it's coming directly from the sensor... BINGO... clean HDMI 422 signal identical to the BMPC one but from a bigger sensor, audio in camera, etc...Maybe (2017 firmware) one day I'll even get 4k 50/60p !!!

But if t's just an upscaled version of the 420 recorded in camera then BOOOOO...! Don't need that!

You see my point here?
And nowhere I can find these infos...

:(

I doubt that you will see much difference between internal and external recordings. Unless you have loads of fine moving detail or you are doing heavy corrections in 4K where the internal recording is 420 and might not be enough colour detail.

But I think that the noise in the recordings should be of more concern to you than the bit/sampling rates.
It's not a great lowlight camera.

The LS300 is (probably) 8bit 422 via HDMI and SDI.
SDI is 10 bit, but 2 bits are unused.

Once this 4k60 update comes along perhaps we'll know more about what the sensor and internal processing is capable of. It would be great if Wayne from JVC would chime in as the LS300 has been getting a lot more interest lately, but JVC are a bit... Dunno... Quirky?

If your clients insist on 444 then you will also need 10bit or possibly 12. But I'll speculate that like the majority of us your clients have no interest in what camera you use. So it's down to you to decide if you can live with the potential shortcomings. Specs won't tell the whole story.

In theory a BM camera with RAW and ProRes, a fancy sensor and a clever eyepiece should be perfect for everyone, but I wouldn't buy any camera currently made by BM. I've used their stuff - yuk.

The LS300 has very similar formats to the FS5 (actually a little better) but I doubt it can compete in low light. Of course an a6500 seems to beat an FS5 hands down in terms of image quality but that's another story.

It'd be great if JVC could include internal 100Mbps, maybe 150Mbps HD 422 but 50Mbps is still decent quality.

The HDMI output is 4:2:2 8 bit, and as far as I understand, it comes from the image processing section of the camera...before the h.264 compression.

As for the update, it doesn't appear to provide any substantial improvements that I was hoping for.

We can only speculate about how the camera processes it's data.

Regarding updates, I'm not sure how long you've owned the LS300 but there have been lots of updates.
I've done five myself (I have all the versions backed up) and I'm sure the 4K60 update will be along soon.

You want 'substantial improvements' which almost sounds like you won't be happy until the camera can do 4K60. But this feature was only made public quite recently and shouldn't be a deal breaker for buying an LS300.

Should already have internal 150mbit (4k).
And already should be more luminous than BMPC 4k.
I have it and can't go more than 400 iso without noise

"Addition of Natural mode in color matrix (Suitable for condition under blue light)"

This sounds interesting, I noticed the ls300 having quite some issues displaying blue led light, I get that kind of light a lot at weddings and on the ls300 the color glows like it's radio active, my panasonics have much less issues displaying that color.

Haven't tried the "Natural" profile, as it's available only in Rec 709 gamma mode. In my view, there is no shooting situation where I'd use Rec 709 mode on the LS300, J-log1 is a better choice in every case.

Before J-log1 was introduced, I tried numerous combinations of gamma, black level, and color bias in Rec 709 mode, all in a futile effort to record reasonably well-behaved footage under LED stage lighting. Pure blue LED light was a particular problem, provoking the camera's internal light meter to underestimate its intensity, resulting in overexposure.

I'm completely unimpressed by this firmware update, it's little more than a marketing push for JVC cloud. There are vital areas where the efforts of JVC's engineers should be focused, issues that would make a real difference in the functionality of the LS300:

1. Enable the Sharpening control in J-log1 mode. This setting should have NOTHING to do with the selected gamma mode.

2. Fix the "800%" spot meter to use peak detection rather than area averaging. It is currently useless for reliably gauging peak exposure.

3. Make a serious effort to address the OIS support problems with numerous Lumix lenses. At BARE MINIMUM, document which lenses have been tested as fully OIS-compatible.

4. Verify support of ALL currently marketed MFT lenses by Panasonic, Olympus, and others. Document all exceptional support issues, as Panasonic has done with each of its MFT camera models.

Re the 4.2.0 v 4.2.2 discussion.

I remembered and tried to attach the JVC 4K cam white papaer from 2015 where they say:

"HDMI is uncompressed
As we have indicated earlier in this document, any compressed HD in a standard consumer delivery format is 4:2:0 at 8-bit depth. However, any uncompressed HD format, being exclusively professional (i.e. HD-SDI and 3G-SDI), is generally 4:2:2 at 10-bit depth. HDMI connected video is indeed uncompressed but generally 4:2:0 at 8-bit depth (higher sampling and bit depth are permitted).
Two of the 4KCAM camcorders (GY-LS300 and GY-HM200) feature identical LIVE wired HD-SDI and HDMI outputs, while the GY-HM170 only features HDMI. IP streaming is not included in the GY-HM170."

They are pretty clever not to tell exactly what their professional camera deliver, but with some good will I can interpretate that they deliver 4.2.2 10 bit, but my realism tell me 4.2.0 8 bit.

I got an answer from JVC and after few exchanges the guy said that I am getting 10bit 4.2.2. and I am getting it directly from the sensor (and is not an up-sampling from the 4.2.0). But he wasn't really convincing as I seemed to know more about it than him.
One thing I discovered (Wikipedia, HDMI) is that HDMI can't be 4.2.0. but only 4.2.2 or 4.4.4., but bits can go from 8 to 12 and over. So we are 100% sure is 4.2.2. What we don't know is if it's 10 bit or 8 bit, and if it's 10bit if it comes directly from the sensor or is just a "fake 10bit", a resampled version of the 8bit signal

I picked up this to understand the potential in the LS300:

Altasens 4k super 35 sensor AL41410C gives up to

 4512 x 3008 resolution at up to 50 fps
 4512 x 2520 resolution at up to 60 fps
 4096 x 2160 resolution at up to 72 fps for cinematic 4K
 3840 x 2160 resolution at up to 72 fps for Ultra HD video
 1920 x 1080 resolution at up to 240 fps for slow motion playback

I am looking forward to JVCs full utilisation of the hardware.

The imaging chip's full potential may not be realizable due to other constraints in the camera, heat dissipation being the first reason that comes to mind. Other components needed to process such high frames rates may move the camera's price out of the range we expect it to be.

Tested out the new 3.02 firmware, but the scaling error / stepping artifacts in 4k are not fixed yet.
Reported this to JVC months ago, no reply. Hopefully they'll fix this in the next major firmware update.
Maybe if more folks chime in to JVC, they might bump this up on their priority list.

Attached stills extracted from 4k (3840x2160) vs C4K (4096x2160). There are no stepping artifacts in C4k, but in C4 (UHD) diagonal lines look pretty ugly.

ISO: 1600
JLOG1
Shutter: 1/48
fps: 24

After looking deeper into this it seems it may have nothing to do with JVC, and there may be no scaling error at all. It seems to be a playback issue with MPC.

It's hard to tell which one looks better isn't it? A more regular test subject may have helped.