I also bought the Elgato Avermedia and installed the drivers plus their software. The unit was recognised immediately and I was able to record to the computer via the Elgato software, but neither Vmix or Livestream would accept an input. They both listed the but showed error messages when I tried to select them. I changed sizes, and various other parameters but made no difference. I then uninstalled and tried again just loading the drivers, but with the same result. After much head scratching and wasted hours, I decided to get on with something profitable before I chucked everything out of the window!!!!!

Chris I can't see it being a Win 10 problem as I have had no other compatibility problems at all. Not impossible of course, but I would have expected something to work on USB. I may get up in the roof and dig out a couple of my old Logitech webcams and go back to absolute basics to find the problem. Alternatively I may just take up knitting :-)

Roger

Hi Roger

I'm a little confused as Avermedia and Elgato are two different companies? For vMix here is a list of capture devices that are supported Supported Hardware | vMix (http://www.vmix.com/software/supported-hardware.aspx)

With Studio it seems that unless it's a BlackMagic Card it's simply not supported!! The USB converters output must be different from that supplied from a USB webcam I guess. I have no issues at all with any Logitech webcam ... Livestream make a lot of "all-in-one" units designed for cams with SDI outputs so it is a PC, switcher and capture all in one case BUT at a hefty price from $12000 upwards ..totally out of my budget of course!!

vMix seems to be a lot more lenient on hardware so check their list and see if your model number matches anything. That might work?

I found it simple to drop a webcam into vMix too but that was about all. I'm sure Donald uses vMix BUT he also uses something called XSplit so maybe you need both.

In Studio I have no issues bringing in a couple of webcams for cutaway shots and then use the Broadcaster Pro encoder to send my main camera (FZ2500) back to studio. It seems that you need to use only supported hardware for either of these programs but see what Donald says ..he is a wizz at making DIY live stream setups.

Oh BTW: I'll have a nice wool jumper sorta fisherman's rib style in white please for our chilly Winter's nights!

OOPS!!!! You are right of course, Elgato and Avermedia are two different companies. I ordered a converter from each company and haven't received the Elgato one yet, just shows how confused I've become :-(

As Robert and I complained earlier about lack of connection compatibility, it seems that each company decides what you will be allowed to connect to their programme and refuse to maintain a standard across the board. It just seems to be an obstacle to simple progress so that they can attempt to dominate their market by reliance on their own version of the product, Apple style.

I've just ordered my wool and knitting needles, no compatibility issues there :-)

Roger

I don't have vmix just xsplit. I loaded all the software for the elgato and avermedia. OK it takes up memory but it works.

So if you hook up the Avermedia unit on your computer and feed a camera into the HDMI side and go into Studio settings and inputs and create a new camera input, nothing appears on the drop down menu ??

Maybe crawl into the attic and grab a webcam and see if that appears on Studio drop down menus .. I can see a webcam (as long as it's connected ) in both a new Studio input and in an input in vMix no issue.

Sounds strange Roger??

Maybe ask on the vMix forums vMix Forums (http://forums.vmix.com/default.aspx?g=forum)

There is something there about the Anniversary Update for Win10 causing webcams to disappear from inputs ....a question about your unit might be helpful??

That last comment of yours about webcam inputs disappearing in win10 could be interesting as that is exactly what happened to me. I'll have a look at the forum tonight.

Roger

I've just ordered my wool and knitting needles, no compatibility issues there :-)No? You need to be aware that knitting done on small needles is not compatible with large needles and vice-versa!:-D

No? You need to be aware that knitting done on small needles is not compatible with large needles and vice-versa!:-D

LOL with my knitting it won't make much difference :-)

Roger

The hassle of live streaming boggles the mind. As much as I don't like FB, the live connect is really good. Get the software, run it and make the connect. The limitation, of course, is it's restricted to Android and Ios but the connect is seamless. Trying to stream with the Sony PXW 150 is a disaster. Open Broadcast Software is awesome but one cannot see the camera even though it's wifi enabled and connected to the host computer. This is such crap. I tried to do the drill with Teradek's vidiu. It worked once, but now, forget it.

One has to know too much to get anything done. Hardware vendors have to get their act together and create a streaming standard dataset to enable a consistent connect for streaming video to the net just as the web has a consistent set of protocols that everyone adheres to in order to use the net. Streaming should be simple but it's not. Editing video at least works and cameras connect to editing apps whether they be Mac, Windows or Linux without question. Why not WiFI and streaming? Seems logical to me. End of rant.

Great info on this site without question. Have learned so much from folks who know a hell of a lot more than yours truly.

Best.

I use the Teradek Encoder and just output my camera (EX1r or FS5) to it with HDMI and connect to the web either with ethernet or Wifi and broadcast to Youtube. It is pretty simple. The hardest part is making sure that the connection is solid with good bandwidth.

Hi Jeremy

I do exactly the same but with Broadcaster Pro but we are looking here at sending multiple cameras into either Livestream Studio or vMix switching software which is another ball game totally ...Roger's main issue is getting the mixer software to "see" the camera coming in via a HDMI>USB adapter.

I went through the Vmix list of capture hardware and my particular Avermedia box is not listed. Does that mean that all the dozens of different converter boxes are sending different information out to the computer PC USB inputs? If that's the case, then it's about time that there was an industry standard that all have to follow, as trying to get everything talking is like trying to pick a way through an unexplored jungle without a map and both feet tied together!!

Even if you can get everything working, you are still reliant on trying to get a decent internet connection as Jeremy said, so it can still all fall apart at the last hurdle. I think I have come to the conclusion that the amount of variables, lack of standardisation and vagaries of the wifi connection have convinced me that at this moment in time, it's just not worth it. The financial outlay, many days and hours researching and the number of likely pitfalls and limitations, mean that the financial returns are going to be minimal at best. Others can pioneer and sort out the mess and I'll jump on when the ride is easier :-)

For the time being, I will concentrate on post edit streaming and downloading as a delivery option rather than the live mixing and streaming.

Roger

Hi Roger

I would have thought that USB was USB end of story ...I have used 3 different webcams on Studio plus I have connected to my phone, my tablet and another computer via wifi (but these must have the Livestream App) I might understand a high tech SDI capture card not being compatible but shucks USB!!! You can basically plug any USB device into a computer and it will be recognised so why can't software read it?

Just for interest vMix cannot stream to Livestream's CDN without the Producer software ! I just thought it would be awesome for your school stuff !

How much did the HDMI boxes set you back ..guess you can always sell them. Most of our wedding stuff is done just with an on-camera encoder which works well and we have a pretty good 4G network here with fast speeds ....our ground based internet connections are pathetic!!!

Sorry to hear you have thrown in the towel but with all the hassles I can see why!!!

Hi Chris,

The streaming of schools videos was the one thing that I could see being really useful, but put on the back burner for now.

The Elgato converter was £99 and the Avermedia £60, but I will either sell them or put them on the shelf to have another try in a few months.

The whole research on this though has been very enlightening and certainly live mixing and recording plus the virtual studio ideas will be ongoing. I'll also be watching what others are finding on the streaming front.

Roger

Thanks Roger

Point taken. My interest was sparked when a friend over on the East Coast was doing funeral services which sadly hasn't taken off that well here but I decided to apply it to wedding ceremonies initially as we have a lot of overseas people that get married here or people who have a lot of family either in the UK or New Zealand. Australia has a lot of immigrants I guess so being able to "invite" them to the ceremony is a plus for brides. The one we are doing this afternoon actually has family in the USA.

With the massive influx of wannabe videographers here and dirt cheap gear the conventional market was really saturated (photogs also offering video as more and more DSLR's can do HD video) it does put us in a different niche market and is becoming popular so I'm not having to compete with every Tom Dick and Harry for business. We had a bride ask for a videographer for this November last month on FaceBook and I counted 61 responses within an hour!

Regardless, when you get the time, I would appreciate any of your findings on getting a HDMI>USB box to "talk" to either Studio or vMix or even OBS

Have a good weekend!

Any other posters have a different setup that they find good? Maybe Roger's interest will be re-sparked? Post setups that work for you that don't cost a fortune!!

I just don't know what's wrong. Both work on my laptop windows 10.

Hi Donald,

It would be great if you could go through the process of how you get them to be recognised. Whether you use the included software or just the drivers, what settings you use etc. I may be missing something, although looking on the Vmix forums it seems that a lot of people are having compatibility problems.

Roger

First off. I'm using Xsplit Broadcaster. This was installed first. Then I intalled all the Elgato editing stuff and driver. A few weeks later installed all AverMedia software. Both show in Xsplit. Maybe I should try the Vmix free trial and see what happens. PS I did try two Elgatos but only one showed. Somebody did report using two of the Elgato 60 HD cards working as 1 and 2 on OBS.

Do you need the Avermedia recording software installed for Xsplit to recognise the box, of just the drivers?

Roger

I installed everything.

Surely what is needed here is a simple test program that you can use to make sure that the adapter is actually working ? I found Yawcam Yawcam - Yet Another Webcam Software (http://www.yawcam.com/) ... I wonder if that would help to see if that a video signal is actually coming into the computer and it's set up correctly.

Surely the HDMI>USB box should provide the same video output as something like a Logitech webcam?

Wouldn't that be a start to make sure we actually have video coming in??? If I plug in a webcam and run yawcam it shows nothing but I then have to select the cam from the device list and it works so would that also work if you have video coming in via the convertor box?

Another quick question ..if you plug the USB side into a port does Window "see it" ??

All very frustrating!!

I was doing a Google and found that Vmix does not like Direct draw which both boxes output. Have you tried with Xsplit or other programs.

Hi Donald

I'm sure Roger said that also Livestream Studio didn't show the device in the drop down list. I would have thought that these convertors would "emulate" a USB type of camera yet it seems they don't

If you buy any Avermedia gear for a while they were offering a limited subscription to XSplit so it's pretty obvious that it works with XSplit but maybe not with others

It's really very strange that all HDMI>USB boxes don't simply appear as a USB camera in all software!! Do these boxes come with any sort of recording software? Maybe you have to use that to actually get a video signal ?

Probably better to stick with something that you know works with the switcher you enjoy using ....or use a hardware mixer like the Roland ....Final thought is use a hardware based mixer and bring the HDMI into your convertor and then stream out with the software they supply ... I have never had an issue cos I send my main feed to Livestream Studio wirelessly from a Livestream Broadcaster and then use USB cams for cutaways.

Using the Avermedia recording software, I could record the output from my Panasonic HD cams and from the FZ1000 through the box. Vmix and Livestream both recognised the box as inputs but wouldn't accept a signal, just saying there was an error. I downloaded Xsplit but it seemed very limited for mixing so never thoroughly tried it.

As Chris said, a USB signal should be pretty much universal, but when it comes to video it appears not. I have spent days trying to get something useable, but it doesn't inspire me with confidence in using any of the hardware or software in a live environment if I can't do it in my own home.

The hardware mixer route would be easy to use and setup and inputs seem to be standardised, so why can't it be standardised in converter boxes and software? The trouble with hardware switchers/mixers is that they are expensive pieces of kit for limited use. I changed from analogue switchers and live mixing years ago when multi stream NLEs became affordable, but software live mixing seems to give nowhere near the reliability and ease of setup that I was used to with analogue. As the technology constantly moves on, it seems to be becoming more and more fragmented.

Roger

I"ve very quickly learned over the last few weeks that multi camera live streaming is not something that is currently easy to set up or particularly reliable in operation without big budgets and broadcast priced equipment. I have also become concerned that my attempts to get some sort of live streaming under way have led to me following a direction that would lead to greatly reduced production values.

I completely understand Chris's use of streaming for immediacy and availability to remote viewers in his area, but using one main camera and a good quality webcam for cutaways, is not really a direction that excites me. A live stream broadcaster and a phone to broadcast the live action is brilliant, but I feel like I have to take a step back here rather than running like a lemming over the new must have cliff.

Only a few months ago on this very forum, there was a discussion about why you couldn't produce quality wedding work with one camera, with a couple of recorded cutaways to drop into the edit, even though it might have been alright in the early days. However the streaming direction, is really offering exactly that, limited main camera coverage with the odd cut away and seems to be offering immediacy but at a quality cost. So have we been getting it wrong for so long when all brides really want is some quick footage of their wedding as it happens rather than the cinematic production. Alternatively, is it a new immediacy just like selfies and instant video on the phone that is adding a viable simple alternative package to what we offer?

For years we have all been working hard to get cinematic qualities to wedding video, with multi cameras, sound recorders, sliders, dollies and sophisticated editing. Now we are moving into the realms of 4K, and ever more sophisticated production values after hours of editing. Perhaps streaming is just another tool in the armoury, let's hope it doesn't fragment an already limited wedding video market even more.

Roger

Hi Roger

Totally understood. If I was looking towards continuing with producing stunning cinematic wedding videos then I would agree with you totally but I'm not. For me it all got a bit too much when to compete you need 4 cameras, two assistants and at least a stedicam, crane and slider along with days and days of editing. Then along came the famous drone footage which meant buying a drone and 4K camera, qualifying as a pilot just to be able to complete with the opposition.

I decided to go the other direction and stick to a simple two cam setup (wireless with broadcasters) and two conference cams added at receptions and create a new market which is proving very popular AND I could sell all the fancy gear AND dispense with days of editing. Sure it's a simpler approach but there is a market for it! We actually don't broadcast to remote areas at all..there is no reception in rural Australia so most of our broadcasts are back to the UK, USA and New Zealand to family and friends there. I can actually do a single cam shoot of a ceremony with no switching (no power on the beach!!) so it's just an FZ2500 and a broadcaster streaming to our own 4G wifi on a huge stand about 50m away so we get a decent signal. No phones are involved at all ..Our connection is thru a dedicated 4GX Advanced II wifi modem.

Yes it's a new market completely but a huge amount of interest is being shown and it's enthusiastically received (Our Saturday beach ceremony had over 300 excited local and UK viewers) If I put up a conventional cinematic highlight video that I have carefully crafted over 2 days I'm lucky to get 50 views!!

I think the answer here to to stick to one system and one CDN to ensure compatibility if one does it and really, set up costs are often less than setting up a cinematic wedding gear list especially if one needs stedicam, sliders and 4K camera drones. I honestly don't think it's a profitable "optional extra" for the conventional wedding videographer at all as it's a complete system ... We have completely dropped traditional video from our packages and only do live broadcast weddings now ...I don't think trying to do both is feasible so that's why I see your point!

I purely mentioned it for theatre performances/school plays etc etc because it would saves heaps of edit time but can see you don't do enough of them to justify new capital expenditure.

Hope all this makes sense to you??

Hi Chris,

Thanks for a very interesting and detailed reply :-)

I can see both sides of the coin and am still wrestling with the thought that perhaps we are too wrapped up in the technology and striving for cinematic perfection. Perhaps we are sometimes not seeing the trees for the woods.

Seeing as how video accounts for probably no more than 10% of weddings and photography perhaps 95%, there could be a very marketable case for an upgraded photo package that includes a live streamed single camera video. After all I spent 2 decades filming perfectly competent weddings with one camera with never an eyebrow raised by clients. Now in an era of minimal quality, wobbly, pixelated short guest phone clips of weddings, perhaps a professionally filmed single camera live broadcast of the main bits plus photos may, be highly attractive to modern brides and enable turnover to remain at least the same without the editing time to worry about.

I remain open minded :-)

Roger

Forgot to mention that our system is a LOT different. We have Marriage Celebrants who are allowed to perform ceremonies ANYWHERE! On the beach, in a park and some even have built little capels in their back yards. We have probably a lot more casual ceremonies than you guys have. Church ceremonies probably have dropped to under 15% nowdays!! I might do one or two in a season at best!! All the rest are civil ceremonies!!

Just for interest Roger I'm told this works on both studio and vMix

Magewell - USB Capture HDMI (http://www.magewell.com/usb-capture-hdmi)

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the link :-) I found the Magewell converters during my hours and days of research, but wasn't prepared to pay £250 for 1 channel only. I'm still miffed that you can buy a cheap webcam and the USB out will go straight into the software and be recognised, but you can"t plug a £1000 camera in and get it recognised without spending a small fortune on a converter. What is going on?

Roger

Hi Roger

I often wonder why all TV's have not one but TWO HDMI inputs yet more powerful desktop machines have none ... It would be so simple to include HDMI inputs on the back of a computer at minimum cost so HDMI devices can be plugged in. Funny thing is that switching software can connect wirelessly to other computers, tablets, and even smart phones yet the problem all seems to be connecting a camera (with HDMI outputs) to any computer/tablet/laptop .. In Studio I can easily bring in any screen as use it as a video source but the issue is STILL getting the camera HDMI signal into the computer. I'm still puzzled why this is such an issue for modern desktop machines in this day and age.

Livestream came up with the MEVO system but it's designed to use with an iPhone/iPad and the camera units are terrible in low light too and cost almost the same as our Panny cameras. For doing stuff like Theatre products a wireless system is way more convenient but sadly unless you buy a Broadcaster Unit you are screwed. Surely there must a be a wireless encoder that you mount on the hotshoe of the camera and monitor/stream from your computer? I don't mind USB cameras in a fixed venue but there seems to be nothing available between a $150 webcam and a more fancy PTZ usb camera at 10 x the price.

I will however keep you updated!!

Elgato sell a pci card you plug in at a reasonable price. But again how many can you plug in without driver issues. (I just mention Elgato but there must me a few other makes)

Donald ? with your adapters can you set them up so the live video runs on a second monitor ? I know I can use Studio on my main monitor and it will recognise a second monitor as a video source ..it seems that Roger even struggles to get video to play live with his boxes?? Does the software with the adapters have some sort of program to monitor the incoming live video?

I am using a laptop so no second monitor. What you could do is setup with HDMI splitter and a Lilliput or similar. Some have pass through so no need for splitter.

Hi Donald

I don't have an HDMI>USB adaptor but Roger seemed to have an issue getting an output from both his Avermedia and Elgator units. How can you test the adaptor ? You obviously plug the camera into the HDMI input and the USB into a port on the computer ....All I was asking was once everything is on and running do you get live video on your screen and what software (apart from your Xsplit switcher) is used to confirm that video is coming into the computer ,, Surely the adaptor comes with some sort of software to allow you to check that it's working?

Hi Chris,

My Elgato box was returned, but the Avermedia I have held onto to experiment with. It came with software that enabled you to view the input and record with the software. That all works fine, just can't get a picture in Livestream or Vmix. Whether you could use the included software to get a monitor view on a second screen is uncertain.

Roger

Hi Roger

Sorry to go on with this but it's useful stuff to know for me too so I'm "using" you to gain information if I need it!!

. If you have two monitors then if you download the free utility called Livestream Remote Camera and install and run on your computer it allows studio to "see" both monitors and you can use them as remote cameras. If you also run the Avermedia view software and then drag the window onto your 2nd monitor you have the 1st monitor to run studio and the 2nd monitor as your live camera view and you can bring the 2nd monitor in as a remote live camera.

You can also of course hook the Avermedia up to say, a laptop and as long as it's connected to the same wifi as your main computer (and is running Livestream remote camera ) you can also bring that in as a remote camera and it's of course a wireless signal too! I was wondering if these little mini computers (Intel NUT) might work as they actually have an HDMI input too so one wouldn't need the Avermedia box

On vMix you might be able to do the same thing but I'm not sure how

Maybe something to amuse you on your still chilly Winter nights???

Something new announced yesterday. Blackmagic Atem Studio and Web Presenter. Web presenter acts like a web camera. Takes your pro equipment and turns it into a 720p hd feed.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicwebpresenter

Thanks Phil

Interesting! It looks like it's a powered device (mains) which is a bummer for weddings in the park. One assumes that you still need to cable from the camera to the computer even with the add on device ....Pity it wasn't a wifi device like the Broadcaster Pro and also battery powered. You still need an HDMI or SDI input on your computer so I honestly cannot see any huge advantage between this and a HDMI>USB converter box which is heaps cheaper. It is cheaper than a Teradek or Broadcaster Pro but I think they are way more convenient and can stream out on their own and are self powered.

What set up are you using?

there are 2 way for going streaming.
the first way is to consider streaming like just another media and you build a live set as usual, several cameras wired to a video mixer/switcher and recorder.
Many people have to good old videonics MX1 or use more recent system in HD like the ATEM.
You can also user very expensive equipement like the NEWTEK tricaster or the VMIX GO.

You can also go for an all in one computer (since anyway you will need it) . this goes from the cheap and easy to the high end and expensive, depending you needs or budget.
Personally i have both.

I have some laptop, with GSM data card (some place are out of any internet access) , the vmix program and 3 webcams with long cables (about up to 45 feet usb cable).
If needed i can have a roaming camera with the NDI wifi connection over an iphone or ipad.
If needed i can use my magewell HDMI to usb converter to capture video from a regular camera (with the benefit of zooming).
Webcam can be modified to use CS lenses , so you can put them closer to PC while still having a good framing.see here an example. Lukse.lt » Modifying Logitech C920 for CS lenses (http://lukse.lt/uzrasai/2013-07-modifying-logitech-c920-to-for-cs-lenses/)

This will allow you to make a live editing of the event, stream on youtube, facebook or periscope, record on disk at the same time in higher resolution than stream. You will be able to ad lower third for names and tiles of speakers, countdown on stream before event starts. and even play movies or show picture if the event has some presentation.

The same setup can be build with an heavier equipement lke a big PC tower, with 4 input SDI card, hdmi to sdi converter for cameras, coax cable (that is easy to install and sturdy enough to last) and you can bring professional cameras on tripod with cameramen behind or even untethered cameras with wireless connection to be spot on action as a photographer would.

The good news about that is all the software part could be free (OBS studio is freem, youtube, facebook or pericope live streaming is free), so if you already have the video equipement, this would not add to the bill.

and nothing prevents you to record on-camera as usual to make a neat editing after the event.

I don't actually have any setup for streaming video. I do have sdi switching gear. I've been in the broadcast industry for 32 years. Was doing a lot of big screen work around town but as with your industry it has been flooded with people who can buy equipment for next to nothing. I'll say no more. Just saw web presenter yesterday on a webinar before I went of to work. Didn't really have time to take it in. Just thought I would on pass to you guys to check it out.

I know exactly how you feel. Years ago we were using cameras that cost anywhere between $15K to 25K so it was an exclusive industry. Nowdays kids leaving school can buy a DSLR for a few hundred. Soon your wedding will be shot by acne faced kids using their mobile phones. At least live broadcast is a little more complex than the newbie DSLR brigade who offer cinematic wedding films and brides seem happy with the new terminology! To me if I had to shoot a "cinematic" wedding it would have to be with a 16mm Arri at least but costs prohibit it! It is indeed a sad state of the industry and at least we can offer something a little more unique with live streaming for now but soon people will be offering it with a shaky iPhone video streamed to FaceBook and will get away with it too!

Gentlemen,

Yes, weeks ago I promised to chime in and help with equipment information threads. Everything blew up on me and I did not even have time to read on the board much less post. Of course you guys don't need me.

Considering how far you have gotten with everything I just started a long thread on hardware switchers. I hope that helps someone.

I read every post. Rodger, when you struggle to get signals to lock on keep in mind to try both interlaced and progressive signals. There are still devices and monitors that do not like progressive signals.

I will post more later when I can.

Kind Regards,

Steve

quotes "At least live broadcast is a little more complex".
That is exactly the opposite.
the hard thing is to get the picture (properly framed, lighted, color balanced, mixed etc...).
If you get it, streaming it today is as simple as connecting a box to the output of the camera or the mixer.
you can even do it from a smartphone and all that for free if you got an internet connection or a good plan.
Proffessional usually avoid streaming because they think it is complicated or expensive.
It is , if you work "offline", record the event then edit in post.
If you learn to do everything "live" , it is very simple and for lots of events, you cut a lot of time for post production. Some of my events even have none.