View Full Version : Chapter markers for USB delivery


Arthur Gannis
January 7th, 2017, 12:48 PM
How does one go about doing it ? Mac platform. Been giving out DVD's for years but now they want to plug it on their smart tv's. What is needed as far as software etc. Thanks.

Gary Huff
January 7th, 2017, 02:15 PM
You would have to make it individual files that they choose between for Smart TVs. Anything else you can source requires a computer to play it.

Noa Put
January 7th, 2017, 02:52 PM
How does one go about doing it ?

Taky Cheung has developed a way to show a menu, like you have on a dvd, but with mp4's on a usb stick, here you can find more about it: TakyBox Console for Online Delivery & USB Export (12-Month) | L.A. Color Pros (http://www.lacolorpros.com/product/?TBCON-TakyBox-Console-for-Online-Delivery-and-USB-Export-(12-Month))

Roger Gunkel
January 7th, 2017, 04:52 PM
I have been delivering HD wedding video for clients on USB for a while now and I find that providing the files are numbered consecutively they seem to automatically move on to the next numbered file on most smart tvs.

Roger

Enrique Orozco Robles
January 7th, 2017, 05:32 PM
I've made HTML5 functional menus for web deliver streaming projects .... that opens like a DVD menu on any PC / mobile device internet browser ... if the takybox mentioned can open from a USB on any TV (even without internet) that will be great !!!

regards

Arthur Gannis
January 7th, 2017, 05:49 PM
Thanks all. I will look into that soon. It seems everyone wants to see it on a large screen instead of a computer. They are all getting smart tv's that playback from USB, they don't want media players and boxes anymore.DVD players will go the way of the dodo soon. They want navigation menus just like DVD's with a photo/video thumbnail to select chapters from. Just numbering menus simply won't do even if there is a description. They are used to real markers with either photo or video. At least that's what my client's want and many of my previous clients want their dvd's converted to USB. Good thing I saved all my editable projects. I see a moneymaker opportunity here.

Gary Huff
January 7th, 2017, 05:51 PM
They are all getting smart tv's that playback from USB, they don't want media players and boxes anymore.

And that's the issue with Taky and Enrique's solutions. They do not work with Smart TVs, they require computers to play them.

Chris Harding
January 7th, 2017, 06:35 PM
I just make sure my clips are intelligently named and they have leading zeros if you have more than 9 clips ...it's pretty easy to figure out what a clip is about when it's called 0001BridalPrep.mp4 or 0002Arrival.mp4 etc etc etc ..works fine for me. Of course they can also use the Smart TV for your online copy too which we send people to their Live Broadcast Event page but we do need to rename the clips on a full wedding so that know what is what.

I was under the impression though that Taky's solution was actually made for Smart TV's not computers and works perfectly with them.

Gary Huff
January 7th, 2017, 06:39 PM
I was under the impression though that Taky's solution was actually made for Smart TV's not computers and works perfectly with them.

Taky's site specifically says it works for TVs if you have an AppleTV or Chromecast, which is not the situation Arthur is referring to.

Chris Harding
January 7th, 2017, 08:21 PM
Quite right Gary

Thanks for pointing that out! So far all I have used is the "intelligent naming" method and brides don't seem to have any issue at all. However a "prettier" method with a menu and drop image would be considered more professional to the client. A simple solution would be nice that would work for all types of TV

Arthur Gannis
January 7th, 2017, 11:53 PM
I was reading somewhere that Adobe Encore had an Export to USB or something to that effect, can't be sure.
Any one ?

Noa Put
January 8th, 2017, 01:55 AM
I was under the impression though that Taky's solution was actually made for Smart TV's not computers and works perfectly with them.

Taky at least claims it works on any tv with a hdmi port but then you need to use this: TB HDMI Player for TakyBox TV Playback | L.A. Color Pros (http://www.lacolorpros.com/product/?TBD1-TB-HDMI-Player-for-TakyBox-TV-Playback)

Donald McPherson
January 8th, 2017, 04:10 AM
Encore can write a flash file similar to DVD menus and all. Would still need a computer.

Chris Harding
January 8th, 2017, 05:42 AM
Hi Noa

Then of course the client has the same hassles as using a media player surely? Connect the device and connect the power supply so you might as well give the client a media player...It's very cheap at $49 but that is a 12 month subscription of course. So if you want to show off your wedding to the grandkids 10 years later, one assume you have to keep paying the annual subscription ..I guess the couple has to pay after 12 months ..it would be tricky to explain to a couple that it only lasts a year then you have to pay again? and again? You could quite easily install them an HDMI media player and they can use it for watching whatever they like but they can still plug in the USB when required. I guess with a media player you lose the fancy menu? so it's back to square one for an easy solution. There was a company offering online storage of HD files and that included a DVD style menu but I'm not sure if they are still going?? Again that was subscription based !

What Arthur wants is a USB you simply plug into your TV and "POOF" you get a DVD type menu on the screen. Anything more complex than that will put a client off!!

Noa Put
January 8th, 2017, 06:55 AM
What Arthur wants is a USB you simply plug into your TV and "POOF" you get a DVD type menu on the screen.
Have you watched the video on his site? It's just plug and play and the menu automatically appears after you insert the dongle, for power you can connect to a free usb port on the tv, can't be easier. With a regular mediaplayer you won't have a dvd like menu system. It's also possible to connect this dongle to a laptop and from what I understand 4K playback is or will be possible.
The subscription is not for the client, it will always work for them, it's only for you as the creator to generate the menus.

If you want to present your films in a professional way to your client this seems like the only option available at this moment that will work with any TV.

Chris Harding
January 8th, 2017, 07:34 AM
Hmmm the website is confusing as it says the HTML 5 app is not included and the subscription for that is $168 ...then the actual unit has a $49 subscription too (both for 12 months)

Enrique Orozco Robles
January 8th, 2017, 10:12 AM
..and you'll need the "dongle" ... I think we lost something nice and special that menus provide with the DVD demise !! ....

Pete Cofrancesco
January 8th, 2017, 10:43 AM
The simplest solution that someone suggested is break up the content into segments that make sense on a USB drive. A wedding might look like
1.Getting Ready
2.Ceremony
3.Reception
4.Highlights
You can include a dvd with the elegant menus that gives them the best of both worlds.

No offense to Taky but just thinking about his product gave me a headache. That's coming from someone who's tech savvy. It's too expensive and convoluted. Who would want to pay that subscription fee and send a client those add ons.

That giant dongle looks like some variant of this device I saw on ebay
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=112157015198&category=168058&pm=1&ds=0&t=1483889471121

His product seems rely on a computer web browser and html 5 to provide a menu interface. I just can't see it being a reliable solution that ordinary clients would want to use.

Noa Put
January 8th, 2017, 12:14 PM
..and you'll need the "dongle"

For dvd playback you need a dvd and a dvd player and you are delivering a lower quality film, with the dongle you only need that + you can show your film at a much higher quality, you can take that dongle with you and play it anywhere you visit.
Now I"m not promoting that dongle as I still deliver a HD mp4 file on a regular usb stick but I stopped delivering dvd's, only do Blu-ray now and I have dvd as a paid option.

... I think we lost something nice and special that menus provide with the DVD demise !! ....
But if you use Taky's usb stick you have not lost those nice and special menus, it's all still there and at a high quality.

Who would want to pay that subscription fee and send a client those add ons.

I know some that use Taky's solution to give their clients a usb stick with a menu, it just looks much nicer then a simple file on a usb stick, it is also the only way, as far as I know, to have a menu structure like on a blu-ray and dvd with HD mp4 files on a usb stick and it works on any tv, since that was what Arthur was asking for he will either have to go for that solution or just copy his files onto a usb stick.

Pete Cofrancesco
January 8th, 2017, 01:39 PM
Taky usb flash menu is a good solution for those who want to provide a refined menu interface for playback on a computer. A wedding studio who does a large volume it might make financial sense to pay the subscription fee for this added feature. Since I was once a web designer and have familiarity with the technology involved I think it's overpriced.

The dongle thing isn't a good delivery method and we both agree on that.

In addition the way he presents his product is very confusing. What exactly is the subscription fee getting you. Is he customizing menus for each client? Are you getting an authoring tool to build your menus? Or are you paying all that money just to use a generic template?

Roger Gunkel
January 8th, 2017, 02:04 PM
I don't see what everyone is worried about, we had VHS with no menus and clunky plastic housings plus a big lump of machinery to play it, then DVD with pretty menus and nice slim discs that played in a smaller machine and now we have USBs that don't require any machine and you can play it straight into your tv, laptop or anything with a USB slot. Some USB sticks even have a second connector to plug straight into your smart phone. Does it really matter that the client doesn't have a selection of pictures to choose from rather than a list of section titles?

LIke Chris, I've never had a client complain about the lack of a menu and I'm not convinced that most of them even use them. I'm sad to see the demise of the universal DVD, but then I was sad to see CDs replace vinyl and mp3s replace CDs, but that's progress for you :-)

Roger

Noa Put
January 8th, 2017, 02:39 PM
I don't care much for this fancy kind of delivery, I just pointed it out for Arthur as a option. I prefer to just copy paste onto a usb stick. If I was able to just give the client a download option only I would be happy.

Gary Huff
January 8th, 2017, 06:42 PM
If you want to present your films in a professional way to your client this seems like the only option available at this moment that will work with any TV.

And, of course, each one costs $50. And, on top of that, who is going to be responsible for tech support should the thing stop working? Arthur?

Now I"m not promoting that dongle as I still deliver a HD mp4 file on a regular usb stick but I stopped delivering dvd's, only do Blu-ray now and I have dvd as a paid option.

Then maybe you shouldn't be presenting it as a solution when it's entirely the anthesis of the solution Arthur was looking for.

Chris Harding
January 8th, 2017, 06:47 PM
I would guess that most brides would watch their wedding start to end on their first viewing and once the USB loads up on the TV and you start the first clip it tends to then autoplay the entire collection pretty seamlessly. I really don't think it would be a sales killer if you didn't have a fancy menu I like the idea of having downloads too but are we talking full resolution files here ...What about the poor bride that doesn't have super fast broadband?? Even a modest 1920x1080 MP4 file of a civil ceremony rendered at 16mbps that runs for 20 minutes is going to be a tad over 1GB which will be frustrating to download with a poor connection. I guess every delivery method has it's downfalls!!

Gary Huff
January 8th, 2017, 06:52 PM
Even a modest 1920x1080 MP4 file of a civil ceremony rendered at 16mbps that runs for 20 minutes is going to be a tad over 1GB which will be frustrating to download with a poor connection. I guess every delivery method has it's downfalls!!

One thing worth mentioning is that a lot of Smart TVs will only read FAT32 formatted USB sticks, so make sure no single file is over 4GB.

Enrique Orozco Robles
January 8th, 2017, 09:28 PM
this is a nice option if you have access to internet:

https://mediazilla.com

.... I don´t like the pricing, but maybe others can afford it ....

Arthur Gannis
January 8th, 2017, 10:35 PM
From what I have been getting as feedback from several of my past and future booked clients is that the DVD was very nice with nice picture/video chapter markers but many of my past clients are dumping their DVD players as they are outdated and many are just keeping them around just to view their wedding video. All movies and collection of their DVD movies are easily accessible over the internet.Many are quitting holding on to their DVD movie collections as they have done so with their VHS's. Secondly, they want a higher quality/resolution of their wedding as long gone are the days that a 32 inch tele was king. Around these parts most have a 40 inch as the minimum living room size and the norm is a 55 to 65 inch. Their husbands like their sports on a very large screen. With the prices dropping on 4K, almost everyone soon will afford and acquire one. Brides, according to my inquiries, just don't want DVD's anymore. They have seen friend's weddings on a USB and want that cool little thingy too. It was horrible to watch a DVD on a 60 inch display. 4K will do it justice as many are requesting that this year. Which leaves me to ponder about that 4GB file limit that was mentioned in that FAT 32 limit. What is needed is a USB that can deliver 4K contact for at least an hour uninterrupted. For now I can get away with fancy chapter markers, but a 4GB file limit I cannot work with that.
I know my clients very well. They want simplicity. Yes, I know that in the past they were very content with VHS and wires and 720 X 480 but over the years they slowly were being spoiled. Now they want the Holy Grail.

Chris Harding
January 8th, 2017, 10:52 PM
Hi Arthur

I have always done my weddings by event ..so 1 clip for the prep, one for the arrival, one or two for the ceremony etc etc so files rarely exceed 20 minutes which is only 1GB .... I'm assuming you render the wedding in one HUGE file??? Even on DVD if you use the clips start as a chapter it plays seamlessly and on USB it's the same ...just make sure none of your clips are more than 4GB ..if you are doing 1920x1080 at 16mbps as an MP4 ...it takes just under 80 minutes for the file to exceed 4GB ...if you don't want to split just split pre reception video as one file and reception as the other ..both will be under 4GB

Taky Cheung
January 9th, 2017, 12:20 AM
Thanks Noa :)

I work very hard to put together this solution to add professional DVD style menu to USB drive and online delivery. Menu and video play back are HTML5 thus requiring a browser. it is not meant to be for TV play back.

For USB delivery, all videos are in the USB drive playing back locally. No internet is required. playback is all inclusive.

For online delivery, videos need to be on YouTube, Vimeo, or Dropbox. There are several hosting options. we can host the project at takybox.com. Or we can register a new domain name so the project will be pushed automatically. Or if you want to host under your current existing domain, you will need to find out if you have FTP access to host the files.

The basic12 month subscription include accessing the TakyBox Console to create projects, menus and button linking. There is naother service options to be able to download a zip file with all content included (except videos that you need to copy to the folders after unzip).

This is a project that I delivered to my client.

http://lacolorfilms.com/rachel-rod

The USB option would be exactly the same. All the files are included in the uSB drive. Double click the start up html file will open up the computer default browser. and playback from there without the need of internet.

Taky Cheung
January 9th, 2017, 12:33 AM
Many think they have a smart TV and the USB drive should play video. But in reality, they only have a regular TV with a USB port., They aren't SmartTV.

So playing back TakyBox content on TV is challenging. So I think out of the box. I come up the solution to deliver on a HDMI Dongle. The dongle will be powered by USB (like chromecast). and I bundled it with a remote control. So customers can watch their wedding film on TV, completely replace the need for DVD or BluRay.

I worked with the supplier and software vendor to tuned the system (it's running Android) that lock down the system to boot directly to TakyBox menu. Playback video form the menu. There is no user interaction or setup. User can't jump to home screen, switch app, or change Android settings. It's all lockdown, to have the dongle to do one thing only, play takybox menu and video.

It comes with a MicroUSB card. You can format the card as FAT32 or NTFS. With NTFS, there is no 4GB per file limit. I am able to playback up to 35mbps mp4 files. Compared to youtube or vimeo that was transcoded to about 10mbps, 25 to 30mbps is quite high quality playback. No 4GB limit to worry.

TakyBox also handle chapter mark creation for long video file too.

Fo rmy wedding clients, i deliver USB and online as default. The dongle is an upsell for $199. I sell the dongle +remote control for $49. the difference is just profit by copying the same USB files to the dongle microSD card.

another benefits, if you want to deliver video to your client but don't them to own a copy of the phsyical file, deliver with the dongle. Use some permanent tape or super glue to seal the opening of the card slot. I purposely disabled the USB mass storage function on the dongle, it is only for HDMI playback. Can't connect to cmoputer. Some laptop has HDMI port, but its' for output only. Not for input.

a simple demo video of the dongle playback here.
Introducing the TakyBox HDMI Player - YouTube

I also setup the HDMI Dongle using it in bridal show to demo my work. The loop feature in TakyBox makes it a perfect settings. No need to connect with laptop or DVD player.

TakyBox HDMI TV Player at Wedding Expo - YouTube

Noa Put
January 9th, 2017, 01:59 AM
I really don't think it would be a sales killer if you didn't have a fancy menu

It's like eating a hamburger at mcdonalds out of a cardboard box or going to a fancy restaurant to eat from a porcelain plate, if presentation matters to you then Taky's solution seems like the only option you have and it's actually very unique and tailored to wedding videographers.

Taky; is that dongle already able to playback 4K files on a 4K tv? I think I saw you mentioning it would be possible.

Taky Cheung
January 9th, 2017, 04:05 AM
Noa, right now it only support 1080p. It will take another year or so to get 4K. But they will all be just firmware update since the HDMI plug is the same. Another thing is, the HDMI dongle is a consumable items. Once you deliver your project to your client, it's done. Not necessarily down the road need to upgrade their wedding to 4K.

But I hvae tested TakyBox on 4K playback with computer. Plays fine!

Taky Cheung
January 9th, 2017, 04:11 AM
I also invented a 4x6 Flash Drive box. I have a factory in China custom make for me. Selling them at $15 each in my store. It accepts any standard 4x6 photos.

Flash Drive Box Holding 4x6 (4R) Photo Insert | L.A. Color Pros (http://www.lacolorpros.com/product/?FB4X6-Flash-Drive-Box-Holding-4x6-(4R)-Photo-Insert)

So, unlike many studios that spend a lot money to make box with their company name engraved on the box (also always have a minimum order qty), the company name and logo doesn't create any emotiona connection to the wedding couple.

With this flash drive box, I design the front insert with the couple's photo. since it takes standard 4x6 photos, i don'te ven need to have a color printer. Just send to CVS and print in an hour. The box can be used as photo frame too :)

Noa Put
January 9th, 2017, 07:17 AM
this is a nice option if you have access to internet:
https://mediazilla.com
.... I don´t like the pricing, but maybe others can afford it ....

This looks the same as Taky is offering, not sure how much a online presentation with a menu system would cost but this would be something I prefer not to have, for trailers I use licensed music which is used online but the highlights for the client will include live played music (like if there was a band playing I will use that music or when they have a special song for their first dance I will use that too), as long as these highlights are shared at the homes of their family and friends then there is no problem but it becomes one when it goes online because then you need to take out all live music that was played and replace that with licensed music.

Taky Cheung
January 9th, 2017, 07:43 AM
This looks the same as Taky is offering, not sure how much a online presentation with a menu system would cost but this would be something I prefer not to have, for trailers I use licensed music which is used online but the highlights for the client will include live played music ....

TakyBox works online (with videos you need to upload to YouTube or Vimeo), or USB (where all the videos already reside in same USB drive). No internet is needed at all.

Regarding uploading online. I'm not advocating or telling others to use unlicensed music. But sometimes it's unavoidable if you record the event, there's the grand entrace, or first dance, very likely a pop music, it is actually better with youtube.

Google has agreement with 8 major music label in the US. They will match the content ID of you upload. Very likely if the song matched is like american top 40 type of songs, Google will detect it and (based on the agreement) tell you if you agree with certain restrictions. The restrctions could be, not be able to playback in mobile platform (youtube app, and m.youtube.com), or not available in certain country (like Germany), and always, Youtube will put ad next to your video and share the ad revenue with the music label to compensate. It says it clearly in your YouTube channel it shows icon of copyright claims. If you agree with these restriction terms, you do not have to do anything.

TakyBox uses the YouTube API to implement the playback. Those restrctions only applied to www.youtube.com and m.youtube.com. For playback with Takybox, no ad ever display. and it can playback on mobile phone too. You can try the link I posted above. it's a full length feature. It's a full length edit. videos streamed from YouTube and no ad will be displayed.

Many times, from experience, sound muted from youtube video is mostly from individual song writers.. In that case, I upload to vimeo then set the video to "hide from vimeo.com". Vimeo also use content ID matching but there is ways to work around that issue. :)

If it still doesn't work .. then can use dropbox. TakyBox also works with dropbox sharing video too. :D

Noa Put
January 9th, 2017, 08:35 AM
I'm not advocating or telling others to use unlicensed music. But sometimes it's unavoidable if you record the event

That's just the tricky part when you place it online, you don't have any control over who they share their entire film with, using only licensed music takes the "feeling" out of the film, like if they do a flashmob and you have to replace that with another song it would not make any sense. Personally I would never allow them to share their entire film online if it contains music that was played at the moment, it's just not worth the risk of getting sued by a music rights organization. But it's nonetheless a interesting way to showcase your work.

Taky Cheung
January 9th, 2017, 09:27 AM
I always set video to "Unlisted" when it's a full doc edit upload to YouTube. For video set to "unlisted", the video is not searchable. It won't show up in your channel listing, related video, or show up in any search result. Only people with the link can see it.

I'd say this is even better than giving the client a USB drive that they can upload the video on their own without your knowledge. At least if the upload is done by you, you can delete it. Say like, if a client want to share a video with some friends.. he/she uploaded it with their own youtube account. They dont set to Unlisted. Now the video is public on the internet and you don't have the power to remove it.

Taky Cheung
January 9th, 2017, 09:41 AM
screen cap from youtube where it matched copyright content. and from the Learn More link

Noa Put
January 9th, 2017, 11:06 AM
Only people with the link can see it.

And when they place that link on facebook everyone can see it :) I tell my clients why I can't use the music that was used at their wedding in their trailer that is shared online and what consequences that might have. When they take all HD files home I ofcourse don't have any control over what they do with it but it's very unlikely they will upload a 4gb file which contains their 20 minute highlight after my warning, especially not when they have a trailer to share with the world. If I place everything online makes it a different story, if the link I give them false into the wrong hands I can be screwed after all, all it takes is a jealous competitor.

Peter Rush
March 6th, 2017, 04:25 AM
And that's the issue with Taky and Enrique's solutions. They do not work with Smart TVs, they require computers to play them.

Taky's solution is actually a HDMI media player so will work on any TV with a HDMI port however you still need to plug in the AC adapter cable so not as convenient as optical disc nice enough

Taky Cheung
March 6th, 2017, 07:18 AM
The TakyBox HDMI player comes with a Micro USB cable that you can get power from the same TVs USB port. Thus no need to connect to AC.it also works using any power bank that charges phone. It is the same with Chromecast that powered by any usb port.

It is so convenient when setting up display at bridal show. Doesn't have to setup blueay player or laptop computer.

TakyBox HDMI TV Player at Wedding Expo - YouTube

Peter Rush
March 6th, 2017, 07:30 AM
It's nice and elegant Taky - well done on developing it :)

Taky Cheung
March 6th, 2017, 08:11 AM
thank you sir :)