Wow its almost 2017!

With the rise of 4K video, and my old system I am thinking about upgrading my CPU and motherboard.
I still use Adobe Suite 5.5 on a home built PC which is perfect for my needs. Usually full HD 1080p from a Canon 5D is a bit lagging, even when processed through Mpeg stream Clip, and 4k is really jerky playing.

My task manager tells me that during rendering and such, there is plenty of (8gigs) memory available surprisingly, but the CPU is at like 99% of use the whole time. I currently have a dual AMD 64 bit 3 gig speed CPU. I suspect that the CPU could be updated. (I think I ve had it for about 7 years or maybe more.

---->>>>EDIT-->>>>> I have a Intel Core Duo e8400 3 Gighz.<<<<--
Video card is the Nvidia Quadro 2000



1. Does upgrading the CPU / Motherboard make sense for faster rending and for future 4k editing?
2. Any suggestions on CPU / Motherboards that are good for editing / PC / Adobe Premiere Pro?
3. Do you have clients you are thinking about 4K or wanting it? (I have none so far, but want to upgrade to accommodate the next 5 years or so.

Thanks!

I think the traditional school of thought in that situation is upgrade the video card. I can't say for sure, I'm a Mac guy and we don't have that option.

To be honest. I would be thinking of a new computer with I7, affordable good GPU and SSD then transfer any HDisks you have. Look for gaming computers.

These are the system building guides you need ...

DIY Recipes and System Recommendations for Video Editing Videoguys Blog (http://www.videoguys.com/blog/category/guides/diy-systems/)

Andrew

Hi Silas,

A couple of months back I updated my system as I was having bad stuttering with 4K footage and anything more than 4 streams of HD video.

My old system was Win7 64bit based running Magix mediaProX7 with an AMD Phenon 2 XM965 3.4 Ghz quad core CPU. Ram was 8Gb DDR3 and an AMD Radeon HD6670 graphics card.

For the new system, I reluctantly decided on Win10 64bit after some discussion, still running the same Magix NLE which I love. CPU is Intel I7 6700 3.4Ghz 8 core, ram 16Gb DDR4 and graphics card is Nvidea GT740.

The performance is streets ahead of the old system, with no stuttering at all, even on 3 streams of 4K footage. All rendering is also many times faster, with final rendering to MP4 taking 20-25% of the time depending on effects used. The problem with your old system will be due to many different factors, including the speed of the CPU, the smalle amount of Ram and the fact it is older slower ram, graphics card etc. 8 gigs of Ram. particularly older ram is nowhere near enough for video editing using higher bit rates I almost went to 32Gb ram for my new system but decided to see how it performed with 16Gb, which is fine.

My new system, using my existing monitors and external gear was less than £1000.

Roger

AMD processors are not recommended for Premiere, some instruction set is missing or something like that, which gives the Intel i7 a huge performance advantage.

A good *base* system would be the Z170-based motherboard with the Core i7-6700 that Roger mentioned. 16GB min. RAM, but prices are pretty low right now so just go for 32GB if you can - nice when you have multiple Adobe apps open at once, or doing any After Effects work. For graphics, the GTX 1060 or 1070 would be great. SSD boot drive, and internal or external RAID array for video storage.

Thanks

Thanks for the replies, guys!

I actually was mixed up, I have the following OLD CPU and video card:

CPU Intel Core Duo e8400 3 Gighz
Video card is the Nvidia Quadro 2000


Sounds like people are recommending the I7 CPU - what about a motherboard? Any other recommendations? Is a QUAD CORE enough or is the 8 CORE way better? Looks like the prices are quite a bit higher for 8 core.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Are there any good charts out there showing the difference between rending with Dual core, Quad core, and 8 Core CPUs? (Ideally, for HD1080p and for 4k)

Thanks!

Not sure about charts although you could google. I think that dual core processors are just not up to current processing requirements and I would try to go the extra cost to an 8 core with as much ram as you can afford, especially if you are contemplating working in 4K.

Roger

Here is what I am thinking so far for CPU and MB:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1274983-REG/intel_6th_gen_i7_6700k.html

Its a QUAD core processor with MB. I think this will be a step up from dual core?!

Hi Silas,

A couple of months back I updated my system as I was having bad stuttering with 4K footage and anything more than 4 streams of HD video.

My old system was Win7 64bit based running Magix mediaProX7 with an AMD Phenon 2 XM965 3.4 Ghz quad core CPU. Ram was 8Gb DDR3 and an AMD Radeon HD6670 graphics card.

For the new system, I reluctantly decided on Win10 64bit after some discussion, still running the same Magix NLE which I love. CPU is Intel I7 6700 3.4Ghz 8 core, ram 16Gb DDR4 and graphics card is Nvidea GT740.

The performance is streets ahead of the old system, with no stuttering at all, even on 3 streams of 4K footage. All rendering is also many times faster, with final rendering to MP4 taking 20-25% of the time depending on effects used. The problem with your old system will be due to many different factors, including the speed of the CPU, the smalle amount of Ram and the fact it is older slower ram, graphics card etc. 8 gigs of Ram. particularly older ram is nowhere near enough for video editing using higher bit rates I almost went to 32Gb ram for my new system but decided to see how it performed with 16Gb, which is fine.

My new system, using my existing monitors and external gear was less than £1000.

Roger


Do you have a link to that processor? Having trouble finding 8 core of that model, Thanks!

Also found this article, I am liking either the Power User or Professional Editing Combination (specifically the CPU/ Mother board and Graphics drives)
Building the Best PC for Video Editing (http://www.logicalincrements.com/articles/videoediting)


Allthough I am unclear if those GPU's work adobe's software:
https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/system-requirements.html

Hi Silas,

I just googled my processor and found it listed as a quad core, which is interesting as the device manager clearly shows it as 8 cores of 3.40Ghz.

So I just rang my system builder who explained that the i7-6700 is a quad core 8 string processor. Apparently this is a development that is described as 4 extra 'virtual cores', which the system sees as 8 cores enabling 8 processes to be run simultaneously. This would help with video editing particularly when rendering clips that have several effects such as stabilisation, colour balancing, leveling etc all at the same time.

So apologies for describing it as a eight core when in fact it is 4 cores and 8 strings, all very confusing to me with limited system building experience. I tend to give the work to my local trusted builder now as it works out no more expensive than doing it myself. It might be worth checking to see if the CPU you linked to is an 8 string one.

Roger

I love the little nuances of language - "a quad core 8 string processor."

In the states, it's "8 threads" ;-)

Thanks

Jeff

LOL I've seen it as both over this side of the pond. Having been married to a Texas girl in the dim and distant past, I have always been amused by the subtle variations in wording and spellings.

Roger

Hi Silas,

I just googled my processor and found it listed as a quad core, which is interesting as the device manager clearly shows it as 8 cores of 3.40Ghz.

So I just rang my system builder who explained that the i7-6700 is a quad core 8 string processor. Apparently this is a development that is described as 4 extra 'virtual cores', which the system sees as 8 cores enabling 8 processes to be run simultaneously. This would help with video editing particularly when rendering clips that have several effects such as stabilisation, colour balancing, leveling etc all at the same time.

So apologies for describing it as a eight core when in fact it is 4 cores and 8 strings, all very confusing to me with limited system building experience. I tend to give the work to my local trusted builder now as it works out no more expensive than doing it myself. It might be worth checking to see if the CPU you linked to is an 8 string one.

Roger

Good to know! That looks like a great processor and the price is right! Thanks again for your info!

AMD processors are not recommended for Premiere, some instruction set is missing or something like that, which gives the Intel i7 a huge performance advantage.

A good *base* system would be the Z170-based motherboard with the Core i7-6700 that Roger mentioned. 16GB min. RAM, but prices are pretty low right now so just go for 32GB if you can - nice when you have multiple Adobe apps open at once, or doing any After Effects work. For graphics, the GTX 1060 or 1070 would be great. SSD boot drive, and internal or external RAID array for video storage.

Thanks

Jeff,
I have noticed that the Video cards (1060 specifically) and the motherboards (Z-170's) have different variations. Not knowing too much about the different specs and models, do you have any advice on what models to get?

For an example, there is a 3GB and a 6GB GTX 1060 Video card. And also differences in 192 bit, etc.

Any advice on specific models? Or links?

Thanks so much!
One thing I would like ( as a side thing) is a (Desktop) motherboard that has a wireless internet solution so that I can connect wirelessly to a hot spot. Not a must, but certainly nice to have.

Thanks!

Not many MBs have wireless. Consider something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320074

Great idea! Thanks Mark!

I have an older quad core I7 4770K workstation running Adobe CC that was struggling with Sony 4K intra. As an experiment, I kept the motherboard and chip and added an nvidia 1080 video card and switched to all ssds. Now it's very snappy editing with 4K, no issues. Sadly, the hardware upgrades didn't seem to help speed up encoding at all, but since I do mostly shorter length (typically<10 min) videos downscaling to HD, my 5-10 minute encodes aren't all that big of a deal.

I guess my point is an older system with "good bones" might benefit from much faster storage and a blazing fast video card, without the cost of replacing the whole thing.

Specs:
Asus Z87 WS
Intel 4770K lightly overclocked to 4.2ghz
32G ram
MSI 1080 video card w/8g ddr5
Samsung 950 Pro SSD boot drive, project drives
Intel NVMe PCI media drive
Outboard Raid 10 for storage

So Dell released their latest Alienware Laptops around Sept/Oct of this year. I've had my eye on getting a new laptop since I gave mine to my wife for her real estate business (XPS 15) over the summer.

I had pretty much settled on a 15R2 with a GTX980M for around $1800 in the Dell Outlet, New.

Win 10
i76820HK
32GB RAM
1 TB PCIE SSD
1 TB HD
4K screen
GTX980M

Well yesterday, I saw the Dell Outlet got in their first batch of 15R3s and they had several in the new category. I quickly compared specs with a custom one in the main store and discovered I'd be saving about $600 by getting it in the outlet. So I took the plunge last night and bought it for $2029, only a bit more than the other one I was looking at. The new design is sleeker, slimmer, lighter, and the GTX1070 was the deal maker.

Win 10
i76820HK
32GB RAM
512GB PCIE SSD
1 TB HD
4K screen
GTX1070

It will be here tomorrow and I'm pretty excited.

My desktop is 5 years old. I just got a GTX 1070 for it also, but haven't replaced my GTX 560Ti yet because I'm in the middle of a wedding. But hope to have it done this weekend and do the swap out.

And if it's got a DVD drive you can swap that out for a second ssd.

For motherboards, we use ASUS, such as Z170-A or Z170-Pro Gaming.

The way nVidia works with display cards is they invent the new core technology, then license it out to many other vendors that come up with their own designs (cooling methods and such). The actual nVidia drivers will run on any brand of card though.

On the GTX 1060, go for the 6GB vs.3GB. We recommend PNY brand cards (GTX 1060 p/n VCGGTX10606PB). PNY is like the OEM for nVidia - their "Founder's Edition" cards are the reference models. nVidia doesn't actually sell GTX cards themselves, they just design the underlying technology.

Thanks

Jeff

Mmm...I had no problem with 1080P 50fps multi streams using an AMD FX-8320 8 core 3.5GHz, 16GB 1866, with 4x 500GB 7200rpm RAID 10 and a GT750Ti, back in November 2016 running Adobe Premiere Pro.

However, the charity I was working for wanted to continue with 1080P, and after a change of management recently, I left.

I plan a freelance cheap build, using an AMD FX-8370 8 core 4.0GHz, with 32GB 1866, and 4x 500GB SSD RAID 10, and likely a GT1060 or better, haven't decided, this will be for 4k video, not sure which NLE I'll be investing in as yet.

I considered Ryzen, but too rich for me at the moment.

Anyway, the above plan beats my current FX-4300 Quad core, 16GB 1300, single 2GB 7200, and GT710 hands down.

Anyone have recommendations on PC builds or new PC's?

My PC is from wayyy back in 2011, it was 8GB but I upgraded to 16GB back in 2014/2015. It's time tho, and upgrading cards, motherboard etc isn't an option. I'd like to have a DVD burner, but I don't know if that's an option much anymore.

Any sites or recommendations on models or custom build sites? Seems alot are geared towards gaming.

You can configure anything you want at avadirect.com. They built 2 systems for me, the newest one for editing 4k, and for under $1,500. I now build my on PCs.

My current PC is a three year old Puget Systems build. They design application specific configurations and mine is configured for Premiere Pro. At the moment they have 4K and 6/8K Premiere Pro editing stations. They are expensive, but the build quality and support is the best I've experienced. All of my recent projects have been 4K multi-camera timelines and, while my system is OK, it could use more processing power. When it comes to processing power and Premiere Pro - too much is almost enough.

Interestingly, I'm actually building two separate Video Editing machines into Rackmount Cases, for mounting into a 6 foot 6 inch 19" Rack Cabinet.:

One is already complete, and will be primarily editing a single video file in either 720P/1080P, after digitising 8mm / Super8 Cine Film (one scanned frame at a time) after cleaning, VHS / VHS-C & Hi8, or transferring older Digital8, miniDV / miniHDV to an NLE.

This is an AMD FX-4300 Quad Core 3.8GHz, 16MB 1600MHz ram, 2GB Nvidia GT710, Gigabyte LMT 78 USB R2 Mobo, 2TB Seagate 7200rpm SATA3, 5.25" Media Dashboard, and 3x IEE1394 to operate a couple of JVC SR VS30 Machines.

This works well, primarily input is Standard Definition unless miniHDV, and the 900 line Cine Film is brought in as an MP4 on SD-Card. Output, depending on the medium, is either 720P or 1080P.

The second machine is still under construction, but may deal with four or five 1080P recordings during an edit (although I suspect it could cope with a lot more), and will likely deal with four or five 4k recordings.

This will be an AMD FX-8370 Eight-Core 4.0GHz, 32GB 1866MHz ram, 4GB Nvidia GTX 1050ti, Gigabyte 970A-DS3P Mobo, 4x 500GB Samsung 860 EVO SATA3 in Bootable RAID 10 managed by an LS MegaRAID 9260-16i PCIE2.0x8 Card, 5.25 Media Dashboard, 2x IEE1394 (because they were lying about)

I've decided it's cheaper to invest in an APC UPS rather than buy a Cache Battery Pack for the LS MegaRAID, that way a power failure shuts down the machine in a controlled manner.

I'll have to let you all know what this is like when I edit five 1080P Video Streams of my Son's Recent Wedding, but I think I've addressed most of the issues.

Video Editing requires 32GB ram, a reasonably fast processor, and unless you're doing post production animations, a middle of the road Video Card, the main concern is data throughput from your storage during editing, and RAID 10, which is RAID 1 + 0 doubles the read and write speeds of SSDs, which in themselves are up to 20x faster than 7200rpm HDDs when used as single drives.

Considering 4k which is 150Mbps, and 1080P which is normally 35Mbps, four streams of 4k would be 600Mbps, a single channel of PCIE2.0 is running at 500MB/s, which can handle more than six 4k streams, although in normal practice throughput is less than 50% of bandwidth, so a single PCIE2.0 channel can handle 3x 4k streams with ease.

The card will have 8x 500MB/s channels, capable of running 24x 4k streams, I'd be proposing to use no more than 4x SATA3 SSDs capable of 550Mbps each, at least initially.

I'm actually considering that a RAID 0 Scratch Disk might not be necessary, and would likely use RAID 5 for Video Archive Storage, using 7200rpm HDDs

Has anyone else considered similar problems?

NB. RAID 0 is two matched disks (normally) and stores and retrieves data by writing part of the file on one disk and the other part on a second disk (or more), the read and write times are doubled, since both disks are actively reading and writing the same file (in parts) at the same time. There is no error correction, if one disk fails you lose all of your data.

RAID 1 is two matched disks (normally) and stores the same data on both disks at the same time, there is no speed advantage in read or write, but should one disk fail you still have all the data on the other disk.

RAID 5 is similar except you have at least three matched disks (or more) and data is stored in such as way, with parity checking, that read and write is improved, but also if one disk fails, although the system goes down, if a blank new matched disk is fitted, the file system can rebuild itself, so no data is lost.

RAID 10 is at least four matched disks (normally), similar to RAID 0 data is shared over two disks to double read and write times, however, each of these disks is also mirrored, so effectively you have two RAID 0's, the second being an exact replica of the other. This means that two disks can fail (one either side of RAID 0) and the system can still run normally, and if hot swapping is enabled, a blank matched disk can be fitted whilst the machine is running, and the disk image rebuilt on the new disk.

So using either RAID 0 or RAID 10 you double the drive read/write performance, and if you are already using SSDs then these will be individually up to 20x quicker than HDDs, double the performance in a RAID 0 or RAID 10 and you're looking at up to 40x faster data storage.

There are faster options, but I'm doing this on a budget.

What I love about threads like these is that they don't go stale. New builds are *always* a current topic of discussion.

Up until this past weekend I've been quite happy with a 27" late 2012 iMac, 3.4GHz quad-core i7, 32GB RAM + 2GB GeForce GTX 680MX as my pretty much "everything" machine. Then the GPU chipset finally gave way, which means logic board replacement, and the cost to repair is probably not practical (but I'm soooo spoiled on that beautiful IPS 1440 display).

Told myself long ago that I'd never again cobble together a PC but now I'm actually considering it.

Just gotta first figure out if it's gonna be AMD Ryzen or Intel Core. All I know for sure is that the target window is 1440p and that this is probably going to involve an 8GB GPU.

Wayne, modern M2 or U2 NVME drives are faster than even an 8 SSD RAID 3 using a dedicated Areca RAID card - as well as being cheaper. See the two attached Crystal Disk drive speed charts.

I have just replaced my Areca RAID with a 2TB Samsung M2 NVME, and a 3.2 TB Intel U2 NVNE, and my editing with 4K material is much improved.

I accept that file security is reduced, but I have multiple off-system backups of my source files, plus an external backup of my two media drives, just in case!

Hi Alan,

I'm not sure it's going to be cheaper, I've sourced an ex-data centre RAID Controller, retail is £379, I bought this one for £90, and the SAS/SATA Leads are £3.50 each (each serves four drives) off eBay.

Yes I've looked at PCIE3.0, and the more expensive motherboard offerings that support M2 Cards and such, but in practical terms as a dedicated NLE Machine for mostly 1080P, this machine would also serve 12x 4k video streams at the same time without breaking a sweat.

I never buy the latest CPU models, always the fastest of the last generation CPU Models, and always AMD, as the price of Intel is ridiculous for Desktop, Rackmount, or Server Applications. AMD is currently leading in the performance stakes with its Ryzen Generation, but I'll wait, we're currently Live Streaming and Recording 1080P or less, but perhaps when 5G is generally available we'll start an upgrade process to 4k, and I'll revisit the post production rackmount. I forgot to mention this machine is being built inside a Server 4U Rackmount Case, alongside the other 4U Case housing the other Video Editing Machine (plus all the legacy video equipment is on 19" telescopic trays in the same Cabinet, which is 6ft 6ins Tall with 6x 120mm Industrial Grade Exhaust Fans on a Thermostat, and the room is air conditioned and kept to the Server recommended 22 Celsius, as I've got a second Cabinet the same, which I'm filling with Data Recovery machines, and Weather Satellite decryption and processing machines. Indeed I'm thinking I need a third Cabinet for other applications, but no servers yet, I use stand alone NAS Servers running Linux Firmware.

For Live Streaming I use a Dell Latitude E6540 i5 running at 2.7GHz with 16GB and a SanDisk Ultra 3D SSD, I take three feeds into OBS, these are Live Subtitles (Closed Captions), Live BSL Interpreter, and the actual Live Video (from up to 16 sources of 1080P), using Live Editing of Sport. On top of this are Screen Logos and I'm going to be running a Scoreboard as well, depending on the Sport.

The Dell is quick enough for this, and records the stream at the same time on a separate 7200rpm HDD.

I've built computers from scratch since 1997, self taught, and have built or upgraded a few for local businesses (not my usual interest), Charities, Clubs, and Individuals, I'm CCNA Trained, and a Full Licence Radio Amateur, and ex-Royal Signals, there's few things I can't turn my hand to (welding I'd love to be able to do), I started recording my son playing rugby in 2005, provided Media Support to three Rugby Clubs, then a National England Squad for 10 years, progressing from DVD Recordings to Live Streaming Internationals, and covered a World Deaf Rugby 7's Tournament in Sydney providing every game Live in 720p on a HP i3 2GHz Laptop.

We're now building a Mobile Studio in a second-hand van, hence the upgraded Dell.

Wish me luck!!!

We're now building a Mobile Studio in a second-hand van, hence the upgraded Dell.

I'm sure I'm speaking for many others here by asking you to *please* keep us updated on this project, hopefully with a dedicated discussion thread for it and plenty of photos please! Would love to see what you do with this.

+1 on what Chris said. I would love to see it. Around 15 to 20 years ago this board was a thriving resource for those of us that almost had to build their own systems if you wanted a capable NLE. Turnkey systems were rare and ultra expensive. I was one of many who counted on the solid advise I got here at DVINFO on how to build from scratch or buy a CPU and turn it into a NLE.

Your van idea took me back to when DIY was common for lots of things not yet within the price range of us small breakout production companies. Converting a van to a mobile production truck was always on my wish list but it never happened. Instead I ended up needing to focus on Fly-a-way kits.

Around 2003 I bought a newly released Sony switcher hyped as "A broadcast truck in a box" Not quite true and I could have bought a van for the $20,000.00 I paid for it. But it served me well for many years when firewire was king.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/372130-REG/Sony_AWSG500_AWS_G500_Anycast_Station_Live.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/372130-REG/Sony_AWSG500_AWS_G500_Anycast_Station_Live.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801)

Good luck with the van. I would love to see it!

Kind Regards,

Steve