Anyone interested in beta testing a new X70/Z150 PP with custom color correction settings? I worked out a new one basted on the PRO color mode, which out of the box has much more accurate colors than the ITU709 color mode. Been using this the last week, and although the colors look more desaturated and washed out compared to stock ITU709 color mode, they allow much better grading in post, since any color abnormalities are kept in check instead of boosted as they are in the more saturated ITU709.

So, below is my current working set, with an alternate for the color 2 correction. Please try these settings out and help me confirm they work well in daylight as well as mixed lighting. As they adjust/change the RED and YELLOW colors, that would be what you should point at to see issues. I am having the most issues with getting yellow firefighter jackets to look proper. Also, the orange used for Sony Pro boxes just looks odd, but getting that orange to look correct makes yellow look very off. Feel free to mess with the phase adjustments in each color, as you can see in real time how even a single number increment of change can become a very visible variation in the hue of a color!

Gamma: ITU709
Color mode: PRO
Color Phase: -1
Color Correction: Revision 1&2 1 = red, 2 = yellow
Mem 1 Color: 10, 4, 0 Mem 1 Revision: +8, 0
Mem 2 Color: 13, 9, 0 Mem 2 Revision: +8, 0 (alternate 15, 4, 0 / +4, 0)
WB Shift: LB-CC, MG/GR, +1 for Z150, +2 for X70 (this can be considered optional)

I find that in every PP I have calibrated, the red always looks correct at 10, 4, 0, +8, 0 with a -1 phase shift. Remember, on the color wheel, + means clockwise to the right, - means counterclockwise to the left, towards the next color over on the vectorscope.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the information. We are using the Z150 as one of the cameras on a shoot in a shop. Will give your setting a try on our test days and report back.

Anyone interested in beta testing a new X70/Z150 PP with custom color correction settings? I worked out a new one basted on the PRO color mode, which out of the box has much more accurate colors than the ITU709 color mode. Been using this the last week, and although the colors look more desaturated and washed out compared to stock ITU709 color mode, they allow much better grading in post, since any color abnormalities are kept in check instead of boosted as they are in the more saturated ITU709.

So, below is my current working set, with an alternate for the color 2 correction. Please try these settings out and help me confirm they work well in daylight as well as mixed lighting. As they adjust/change the RED and YELLOW colors, that would be what you should point at to see issues. I am having the most issues with getting yellow firefighter jackets to look proper. Also, the orange used for Sony Pro boxes just looks odd, but getting that orange to look correct makes yellow look very off. Feel free to mess with the phase adjustments in each color, as you can see in real time how even a single number increment of change can become a very visible variation in the hue of a color!

Gamma: ITU709
Color mode: PRO
Color Phase: -1
Color Correction: Revision 1&2 1 = red, 2 = yellow
Mem 1 Color: 10, 4, 0 Mem 1 Revision: +8, 0
Mem 2 Color: 13, 9, 0 Mem 2 Revision: +8, 0 (alternate 15, 4, 0 / +4, 0)
WB Shift: LB-CC, MG/GR, +1 for Z150, +2 for X70 (this can be considered optional)

I find that in every PP I have calibrated, the red always looks correct at 10, 4, 0, +8, 0 with a -1 phase shift. Remember, on the color wheel, + means clockwise to the right, - means counterclockwise to the left, towards the next color over on the vectorscope.

Paul
Paul, it is my "go to" profile now but I have not had the opportunity to use it outdoors. Indoors it is great.

Thanks

Well, I took my Z150 out for the first time in several weeks, and accidentally had it set to STILL gamma mode! So I jumped out in the dark on a pedestrian struck by a car on the freeway, and everything looked so dark and contrasty! Back in FCPX, I was able to manipulate the levels and bring up the blacks, it looked amazingly nice.

As you may know, when you push the gamma down (deeper blacks), the end result is that your saturation increases dramatically. On PRO color mode, STILL gamma brings 0 level saturation to what looks bright and colorful. The 87.5/-2 KNEE DOESN'T WORK with STILL gamma Unless you want your 108% clipping at 92%!), but I recommend giving STILL gamma PRO color mode a try. So much less apparent noise, and the 10 bit XAVC coded handles bringing levels where you want them easy and clean.

Paul

Paul,

First thanks for sharing so much of your information, very nice of you.

I have tried all of your PP's and have only looked at them in my office with color ranging from 3800-6000. No studios work yet, and no on site work yet. Just learning the camera, it came yesterday. Pretty easy menu since I have owned an own a wide range of Sony cameras for 30+ years.

Z150 is a nice little camera. Your Cinematone 1 PP is the best on my three monitors that I can tell with minimum test. Will know a lot more by the end of the week when we have days on site testing with Z150 and other cameras.

Hi Paul,

I have been using the ITU709 for a series in a boat shop at 5600K, and high CRI lighting with great results. At times the red is a little too much but not where you notice it on screen, more in the Lumetri Scopes in PP CC when editing.

Shooting in 4K, 30P and use LED DraCast 1x1 lights, and three small Dracast lights which I love. Also using these special bulbs in the shops T5 HO fixtures. Full Spectrum Lighting, Natural Lighting Vita-lite (http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/store.php?crn=678&rn=4091&action=show_detail)

Keep up the great work Paul, and thanks again for sharing.

I am glad to hear you guys are liking the new PRO PP! :-)

Here is a still frame grab from a daylight SOT using AWB and some fill from my cheap $150 bi color LED set to somewhere around 4500k. Skins seem happy...this is WITH the +1 MG push in white balance offset menu, and +5 saturation boost BTW.

Did some self training on color correcting in post, using my DSC chart. Found that with HALOGEN lighting, the camera whites at 3600k. When set to manual 3600k, using halogen lighting, and looking at the greyscale portion of my DSC chart, the white vs black balance is all out of whack. Highlights, mids, and shadows, all showed a different hue push when viewed on the waveform in FCPX, RGB overlay. To correct these, in your NLE, you would want to adjust each wheel of your three circles, or color board in FCPX, differently, to correct the hue for the specific level range. I am finalizing the correction values for FCPX and will post a bit later. I don't have Premier or another NLE to provide values for, but FCPX uses degrees for it's odd color board, so you can use them as a guide to adjust in your NLE using the waveform, and a greyscale chart I will also provide. This is a simple repair to what the camera sensor is doing, so it is applicable when using ANY kelvin and the previously provided PP. It should also work on you own custom PP, as these adjustments are simply to match hue for high, mid and shadow levels, and are not kelvin specific.

When doing push to white, these level hues are corrected, but as you may be aware, when using push to white with LED, you will almost always have a magenta or green push added, which will affect background object out of full range of your lighting, so I prefer manual kelvin and just massage the white on that one green/magenta vector to my liking.

Paul

OK, here is what the DSC chart looks like, manual white balance 3600k, halogen lighting. You can load this JPG into your NLE, crop down just the center section, and look at it on the waveform monitor (RGB overlay) to see the red, blue and green anomalies...proper calibration will show all lines as white only, so mess with it until the red green and blue lines converge into a single white for high mids and shadows.

Second pic is of the color board in FCP, which shows the corrections needed to balance the colors.

Will do one of these for the X70, this test clip is from the Z150. My X70 has a major green shadows issue, blacks go green with black gamma pretty bad, so will provide a correction for that camera soon.

Paul

Excuse my ignorance but would like to ask Paul or any other knowledgeable person who happens to read this how you would characterize the difference between the profile discussed in this thread and the "direct to air" profile posted some time ago here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-4k-ultra-hd-handhelds/530260-best-x70-picture-profile-settings.html#post1902159

Are they two foxes coming out of the same hunt, or two quite different beasts for different purposes?

I think the PRIMARY things to care about in my PP's is the COLOR CORRECTION settings. I have previously posted a list of settings for each color mode. After that, things like gamma can be considered personal preference, I just want to make sure you get the most accurate colors, such as red red instead of pink or orange red. :-)

I always try to throw up some example clips shot at night, and with a bunch of profile spaces in the menu, you can put a whole bunch in the camera and scroll through them live to see which you like better.

Paul

My station finally got a vectorscope with 2x zoom/gain setting, so I can now work on making this X70/Z150 PP look as good as possible. Stay tuned.

Paul

Be interested in what you come up with for PP. I am still using your PP and have had great results.

I am still having issues with these cameras colors not specifically agreeing with their vectorscope colors. If I put red in the red box, the camera produces magenta reds...it makes calibration a 50% eyeball process.

Paul

That sounds like a mess. The only issue I have had is controlling the red at times.

Yeah, out of the box the reds are too far over into the orange vector area, but as I said, when I put red in it's box, I end up getting pink fire trucks with flashing magenta lights! Like many single sensor cameras, you get color shifts as the saturation intensifies, making calibrating more difficult. These cameras also have a tendency for cyan to push really hard into green as saturation intensifies, making for greenish sky reflections and green police lights. Calibrating for the night ENG red/blue/amber flashing lights i deal with actually works out well for everyone, as this is the hardest test of the alignment settings you can imagine!

Paul

Biggest color accuracy problem I've seen is purple looking blue on the default presets like ITU709.

https://www.screencast.com/t/h51yMAwaM4D3

Randy

Well I finally did my first two-day (100GB, 4K) outside shoot and camera did a great job. You have to be very careful of the over exposure with only f11 available. And with such a minimum dynamic range it is different for me, but nothing that I cannot adjust too with a little practice.

Paul, I used the same (ITU709) preset that I have been using in studio for months and it worked great.

Now a 10 bit, 422, 4K version that goes to f22.

You don't want to iris down too much on the camera, you would start to get lens diffraction, where the entire image on even smaller sensor cameras turns fuzzy, like you are shooting through a tissue paper. I would gander the 1" sensor might be able to take f8 without anything visible.

I made an NLE FCPX color correction effect for my ITU709 PP...I was working with a lot of footage shot using those custom settings, so I needed a quick effect for batch correcting them all. If you need, I can get you the DSC chart shot with ITU709 so you can create a greyscale correction effect in your NLE.

Paul

fully agree Paul,

I keep it between 5.6 and 8 with best results. It is a consumer camera and has it limitations, but pretty good for the money.

I always set up a new preset in PP CC 2017 for each job. That way I drop it on the timeline and just tweek each clips.

But with out your preset I would be doing a lot more.

My suggestion would be to buy a cheap greyscale chart, and use that to create a simple correction effect. When in preset or manual white balance, the camera makes no attempt to black balance, so when you view the greyscale on the NLE waveform, you will see the separated red green and blue variations in highlights mids and shadows. These separations are not matching, meaning you may see green pushing high on highlights, but blue pushing high on shadows, it really is all over the place. By shooting in manual white balance, and creating a simple "manual correction effect" with the greyscale chart, you have at least given yourself the best baseline, and this correction can be applied to your entire timeline prior to grading or altering it.

Paul

Paul,

Great advice, that is what I have done for years. Each project has a new CC preset that I set up based on conditons and then dump it on the timeline. This gets me so close that the final corrections for each clip take seconds.

Hi Paul! Maybe it's a newbie question, but how do you set the 1 & 2 colours in the "Color correction" PP options?:


Color Correction: Revision 1&2 1 = red, 2 = yellow


I can set all the other parameters of your PP as you explained, but I'm unable to see in what menu I'm able to set either "Color 1" as "red" or "Color 2" as "yellow". My Sony PXW-X70 has the lastest firmware 3.0.2.

Thanks!!

Sorry for the confusion...naming the colors was simply meant to indicate which colors are being adjusted in each setting...Sony uses a NUMBER system to denote what part of the spectrum is being affected...you can play around seeing these numbers by pressing the auto function and pointing at different colors to see what the camera calls them.

Paul