Hello,
Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject of camera stabilizers as I've only shot from the shoulder and off tripods in the past.
Over the past 20 years I've been hefting large ENG cameras around as a news camerman, weight and standing still were my only stabilizers.
I'm looking forward to doing a long term steadicam type project using the smaller LIGHTER DV camera format aside from work.
A few questions here:

How stable is a static shot held for about 10 seconds?

Is there a way to zoom in or out while using the steadycam withoput disrupting the stable picture?

Can you control the iris as well without touching the camera?

I've never shot anything without using manual focus and iris so I'm a little apprehensive of using a stabilization platform.

Thanks for your input!

Tom

Tom, welcome to the forum.

Stabulizers are complicated things that require some knowledge and a lot of practice to become proficent in.

>>How stable is a static shot held for about 10 seconds?
The great thign with a Steadicam is that it compleatly isolates the camera form teh operator, provided you are in balance a shot will remain static indefinatly (untill you get tired) - it's all based on Neuton's laws. If you dont' move it, it wont' move :)
However to remain in balance will take a bit of time to get proficient in.. and expecially coming to a stop from speed, and then accelerating again.

>>Is there a way to zoom in or out while using the steadycam withoput disrupting the stable picture?
Yes. However yrou assumption that it will disrupt the rig if you touch the lens is very true, therfore you will need to do it remotly. Any decent DV caemra will have a LANC/zoom controller connector alowing you to connect a wired remote to the camera, that you then attach to teh gimble.. there will be a wire there, but it's generally not too bad.
Some cameras also offer manual focus control in the similar mannor, and some even offer remote Iris control (like the just beeing shipped DVX100B..it has all 3 control options).
The best option, and msot used profesionally is to use wireless onctrol, normally of focus and iris - and then of zoom if you use it on the rig (often you just move the camera ;-)
So yes the are control options for most all levels of camera.

>>Can you control the iris as well without touching the camera?
Ok, I answered that one allready, but curently the only DV cameras that can have remote iris controll are teh DVX100B and the soon beeing released HVX200, and those that have a true manual lens.. so the full manual lens for the Canon XL cameras, or a coupld of JVC DV cameras.
Again, remote is the key, preferably wireless, but a thin flexible wire wont' kill you.

>>I've never shot anything without using manual focus and iris so I'm a little apprehensive of using a stabilization platform.
Auto focus sucks.. rigging up some sort of remote Follow Focus is a very good idea. At least with these small cameras you have a big depth of field on your side if you stay zoomed out.

however, just a coupel of words of caution: Steadicam is not somethign to be taken lightly. It is a profesion of it's own, and as you will apriciate from your experience with ENG, it will take a long time to become good, and some formal training is VERY much recomended to get you started. I woudl strongly sugest you take a Steadicam workshop. Thsi will also answer many of your questions as well as teaching you to operate.

Go to www.steadicam-ops.com and look at both their "workshops" page for into on workshops, and then take a good read of the material on the "manuals" page.. it will give you a good idea of what this is all about.

What camera are you plannign on whooting with, what is the project and when do you plan to begin shooting?

Good luck, and as any Steadi op will tell you; Fly safe.

- Mikko

Mikko,
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, your answers were very helpful.
I will be shooting naturally lit interiors where the only thing let in (no tripods,lights etc.etc) is the operator. I could do the project handheld but I'd like the added stability of the steadycam for the static and pull-out shots. So as you can see, my purposes of the steadycam will be for static stability more than flowing movement (at least right now)
I have posted in the general forum that I am looking for an excellent low light 1/3 or 1/2 inch chip camera, XL2, HD 100? Z1u? Or any 1/2 Sony JVC under 10,000. Suggestions?
Some of the stable mounts I have been researching are the Glidecam smooth Shooter and 4000, the Steadicam Flyer, and the Animagique Magiqcam.

Thanks again,

Tom

Hi Tom,

I own a JVC GY-DV5000U camera with Fujinon s20x6.4brm-sd lense and I also manufacture stabilizers.

JVC GY-DV5000U is a 1/2 inch chip camera and quite good and I really like it.

Here are two videos shot by GY-DV5000U using my stabilizer for your reference.

http://www.salenz.com/movie/2005_5_1.wmv
http://www.salenz.com/movie/2005_5_21.wmv

Regards
Leigh

I have posted in the general forum that I am looking for an excellent low light 1/3 or 1/2 inch chip camera, XL2, HD 100? Z1u? Or any 1/2 Sony JVC under 10,000. Suggestions?

Tom,
As for camera choice, if want HD then i'd sugest the Z1, or XL-H1 if youc an afford it - or if youc an wait best of all the HVX200.
However if SD is enough, then i'd sugest the DVX100B (will be shipping very soon) .or if you are in a rush the DVX100A-- the XL2 is also a very good camera as is the Sony PD-170 - which prolly has tghe best low light of the 1/3" cameras. ..depends on what is important to you as a shooter.
The good news is that they style of shooting you are describing it won't matter if you manual set focus, iris etc, then stabilize with teh steadicam.. no need for lense control as you don't sould like you will be adjusting during the shot.

As for rigs, if youc an afford it, i would *strongly* sugest the Steadicam Flyer. It is leaps and bounds beyond the knock-off rigs. It will not only perform by far the best, but will also be easiet to learn with.

As you are using the rig for the "use it where you can't use a tripod" solution, and you arn't planning on dooing moving shots, i'm also going to sugest you look into a shoulder rig, like the DVrigPro. .if you go with an XL camera youc an even get Pro battery mounts to make them feel like an ENG camera.
..in fact, i'm tamped to ask, why not shoot witha larger ENG camera? ..just out of curioisty..

- Mikko

Leigh,
Thanks for the info on the JVC and those two links to your steady rig, footage is great. In fact a friend just told me about that very same camera a few minutes ago here at work.About the same price as the smaller 1/3 chip HDV cameras.

Mikko,
Thanks again for the reply.
I will be using infinity for alot of the interiors but there will be times when I will have a foreground focal then opened to infinity as I show the whole room(or maybe the opposite direction) The reason why I'm staying away from the ENG camera (like the one I use at work) is I have a very limited budget and I can't afford to buy a stabilization system that could handle the weight of my camera. So I'm kind of forced into the below $10,000 budget (camera alone). All handheld (on shoulder) would kill me after about 2 hours continuous plus I need steady statics. Also I like the DV format for non-linear editing.

Thanks again,

Tom

Well sounds like a Steadicam is the right rig for you, therefore, get the flyer.

What camera do you have a work? ..how much does it weigh?

As for lens contol for the GY-DV5000.. it's a manual lens, so you are goign to need to get a remote follow focus to change focus during the shot on Steadicam. I'd sugest a BFD: http://www.bartechengineering.com/
They have either a wireless system (that would need a assistant to pull focus) or a wired controller that woudl attach to yrou gimble.

you coudl of course get an lens with a built in focus servo (if you allready have a 1/2" camera, the lense shoudl be compatible.. but most ENG lenses dont' have a built in focus servo.) and use just a fucos controller directly to the lense.

I *might* be easier to go with a camera with will take LANC or the Panasonic control interface.

- Mikko

The reason why I'm staying away from the ENG camera (like the one I use at work) is I have a very limited budget and I can't afford to buy a stabilization system that could handle the weight of my camera. So I'm kind of forced into the below $10,000 budget (camera alone). All handheld (on shoulder) would kill me after about 2 hours continuous plus I need steady statics. Also I like the DV format for non-linear editing.

Thanks again,

Tom

Hi Tom,

How much budget you allocate for a stabilization system?

Regards
Leigh

Mikko,
Thanks for the link and enlightenment on the costs involved in those systems! Looks like I need to keep searching.
My camera with brick on the back and dual wireless with standard Fuji weighs in at about 22 to 28 pounds (wide angle adapter).
Leigh, my budget will be open depending on the system needed, but again WEIGHT of the whole system is a VERY important factor in the complete camera package. I'd love to use my Sony DNW9WS sx and a heavy steadicam rig for a great picture but I'd probably last about 2 years before I'd keel over! Therefore I find the smaller JVC gy hd100, the ag-hux200,and the XL2 VERY appealing!

Would these smaller chipped camera's really be affected by low light or just depth of field?

Thanks again,

Tom

Mikko,
Thanks for the link and enlightenment on the costs involved in those systems! Looks like I need to keep searching.

Hi Tom,

You really don't need any focus controller if you use GY-DV5000 with s20x6.4brm-sd lense. These controller price will cost around the same as my 20x lense price.

Due to 1/2inch ccd, the depth of field for GY-DV5000 is quite bigger too. Small er minidv camera will have bigger depth of field.

The two videos I posted does not use any controller. All you need to do is to set lense focal length to 6.4mm and set focus length to be whatever you wish. I usually set to 2 meters.

By the way, my stabilizer support camera from 200g(if that camera exists) to 20kg(If you can manage to carry with counter balance). I can hold my jvc gy-dv5000 camera which weighs around 6kg including everything using my stabilizer easily for an hour without break. You will see in future from my photograph that I am not a tough person, just average guy to hold normal weight.

I also have a video shot by nv-gs400 which weighs around 600g using the same stabilizer to shot.

Here is the link
http://www.salenz.com/movie/2005_10_4.m2p

Regards
Leigh

To tell you the truth, everything I will be shooting will be through a wide angle lense, therefore I don't belive I would need any follow focus at all but it would be mandatory for a remote iris though. Is this a correct assumption?
Thanks,

tom

To tell you the truth, everything I will be shooting will be through a wide angle lense, therefore I don't belive I would need any follow focus at all but it would be mandatory for a remote iris though. Is this a correct assumption?
Thanks,

tom

Hi Tom,

I guess that you are one man band. Why you need a remote iris? If it is true, then you might need an assistant to control remote iris. I don't have the skill to operate my stabilizer while doing other things all at the same time.

Regards
Leigh

Boy, look at you guys go--lots of conversation for one day!

Tom, I'm trying to read between the lines about your project and its needs. I'm a little confused about the priorities; are your decisions based on cost, mobility/weight or image quality? I mention this because there are many interesting possibilities these days.

For instance, I understand your concern about shooting time and weight bearing. As you surmised, a full-size rig would be impractical for extended shooting--but since you obviously have a certain amount of stamina from your years of handheld shooting, a lighter rig should serve you well. Just make sure that you are able to work in many hours (days...weeks...!) of practice time well in advance of your shoot, not only to tweak your skills but to build up what our noble inventor Garrett Brown refers to in technical terms as "those" muscles, the ones in the lower back that are rarely called on by the general public. Leigh, I'm sure you'll agree that your hours of regular practice are responsible for your stamina (and have apparently discovered the sad fact that building up "those" muscles does absolutely nothing to improve one's general outward physique, but it's a fun surprise for the masseuse!).

In any event, will shooting the project on a 1/3 or 1/2" camera be worth the sacrifice in image quality? What about using a lightweight 2/3" head, including the latest HD box cameras--those weigh hardly more than the aforementioned DV cameras (OK, the lens will beef them up a bit more) and thus could be flown on rigs such as the Flyer--with a CCU cable alongisde the SDI, a remotely located DIT could paint the camera on the fly, or at least ride the iris, and record to an HDCAM deck. The image quality will be substantially greater, and the payload on your back reasonable, certainly less than the setup you've been shlepping around handheld. However the cost factor is obviously much greater, unless renting is a possibility--I heard "long term" in your description though.

Anyway, tossing this in there as food for thought.

For what it's worth, I'm behind Mikko's suggestion of the Flyer for this weight class of stabilizer.

Hi Charles,

You are right. ;-)

I look forward to meeting you someday in future.

Have you recovered?

Regards
Leigh

Leigh, I'm sure you'll agree that your hours of regular practice are responsible for your stamina

Leigh,

Thanks for asking--up on my feet and doing a course of physical therapy, but still not back to operating just yet. I slipped an Ultra on at a Tiffen demo the other week (the new G70 arm is fabulous, by the way) and took a few tentative steps, but it's still too soon.

I may have said this in the past, but my girlfriend and I were so impressed by NZ when we spent a few weeks there last year that we have fantasies of moving there some day...

Leigh,
I may have said this in the past, but my girlfriend and I were so impressed by NZ when we spent a few weeks there last year that we have fantasies of moving there some day...

USA was my dream country to live, but I am very happy to settle in NZ. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Guys, once again thanks for all the help.

Basically I'm just a ENG shooter who's been through all the changes in the industry over the past decades. As all of you know, todays union cameroperator is a shooter/soundman/gaffer/editor/microwave and even SAT truck operator. In fact, nowadays my station is even asking for a 4 year college degree (to better prepare for adding reporter to the list as well!) Over the past ten years I have only been a 1 man self contained operation. Even in the days of the old 30# Sony 110 decks we used to shlep around over our left shoulders with a 30# Ike camera on our right, and another 20# lighting belt strapped around our midsection, we were expected to do 1 man. Needless to say as management got FATTER, we all grew slimmer!
It took me till my ripe old age of 43 to realize what a weak UNION representation the T.V. camera market here in L.A. is compared to our film counterpart ( same union by the way!)

Now I'm looking to make a change, if not for my family, for my health. So I came up with an idea with a reporter friend of mine and together we are doing a small production. In the past I've always used what they gave me and never really appreciated the equipment. I tend to be more creative than technical, but now I'm in charge of the technical aspect as well so here I am.

Thank God for forums like this!

If my pilot goes well, the show will be aired on early Sat morning T.V. through a high definition channel K.T.L.A. here in L.A. It is a superstation reaching over 5 million viewers.

I am restricted from using ANY camera stabilization systems that would touch the ground (tripod,monopod,etc.etc.) Same thing with lighting, no tripod mounts. At most just a belted assistant bouncing a 1K for fill. This is why I am looking at a portable stabilization unit or steadicam system, and a camera that shoots descent in low light situations.

I believe the new JVC, Canon, Pan cameras should be a sufficient picture for the time of day my show will air. In fact, they're probably better than the cameras I was using in the field just 5 years ago!

I'd like to fly one of these cameras with at least a remote Zoom. Charles, with all the experience you have, how important is a remote iris? Am I correct in my assumption that I don't need a remote focus because everything I shoot will be through a wide angle adapter set on infinity (D.O.P. through the small 1/3 chips is'nt as criticle as my 2/3 chips that I'm used to therfore forground objects should be in focus as well as background with the adapter?)

If you guys were doing this, would you go straight for one of the HDDV cams listed on these forums? I am staying away from Sony mainly because I am so used to professional setup lenses like the JVC has, I just can't get into the controlling issues of their prosumer range, great cameras, just awkward for me.

For my pilot I will be renting my equipment through E.V.S. in Glendale. They and B. and S. in Hollywood are the only two places I can find to rent a steady system. They both carry most the camera's on this forum. E.V.S. rents the Hollywood lite unit. Will this be sufficient to use? Is it possible to take a fully setup and balanced steady system out for the first time and come back with descent material? Am I dreaming?

Anyway thanks again for all the help and helping me to escape T.V. news!!!!!!


Tom

For my pilot I will be renting my equipment through E.V.S. in Glendale. They and B. and S. in Hollywood are the only two places I can find to rent a steady system. They both carry most the camera's on this forum. E.V.S. rents the Hollywood lite unit. Will this be sufficient to use? Is it possible to take a fully setup and balanced steady system out for the first time and come back with descent material? Am I dreaming?

Hi Tom,

Two questions.

When will you start your programme on air?

How much will you pay to rent a steady system through E.V.S?

Regards
Leigh

CP, good to hear you are healing.. isn't the G70 a beauty?

Tom,
I'll start from the bottom.
Sorry to sound harsh; but YES, you are dreaming. No way can you (anyone) go out with a rig on for the first time and come back with something that could be considered usable.

What's with the ground restriction?

It's a difficult position you are in, you have to decide what will work best for you: the smaller chip cameras will will give you a bigger DOF.. making it easier to shoot. The bigger chips will be FAR more light sensetive...which lets you close the irs for better DOF that you cant' do with the little chips.

Another option would be to invest in a slightly larger stabilizer, like the Steadicam Archer and then you coudl jsut fly yoru current camera.

I'd sugest you go to the rental houses and ask to try out their gear, as a potential cutomer.
Or, just head over to Steadicam at 6933 San Fernando Road
Glendale, CA and ask them for advice, the'll prolly get you in a rig to demo right off the bat..then they'll [obviously correctly] tell you you should take a workshop ;-)

- Mikko

Another option would be to invest in a slightly larger stabilizer, like the Steadicam Archer and then you coudl jsut fly yoru current camera.
- Mikko

Hi Mikko,

What you suggested is quite dear IMHO.

Archer will sell for around US$24,990.00

Reference
http://www.steadicam.com/images/content/Archer.pdf

I will also warn Tom that even you paid US$24,990.00 won't guarantee you to get a steady shot for the first year you own the rig. Maybe three or four years you might come to the level you want.

My stabilizer price will be a fractional of US$24,990.00 to support your existing camera. ;-) So you don't need a loan to get my stabilizer.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh, the E.V.S. cost is $175.00 a weekend for the Hollywood Lite. We plan on our first air on Jan 1st 2006.

Mikko, thanks for the info as well as all your posts on other forums as well, you guys really help newbees like myself. I will be shooting multi million dollar homes that will restrict us if anything but a pair of tennis shoes touches the floor. Also, speed is of the essence as well as creative expression of a very boring medium to shoot. The big buck guys do a beautiful job (H@G, TLC) but I dont have their budget or time to shoot, this is ENG style with a smoother edge.
I am getting alot of pressure from the 3 other people in my team asking me why I just cant pick up a rig and start shooting, as operators we all know how others don't quite get it. I have pushed to hire a professional steady guy from the start at least for our pilot. Then after the purchase of my unit I can practise,practise,practise before the show tapings myself.
I am going to make it a point to head down to Glendale to check out the Steadicam flyer and to hear what they say about the other brands such as Magiqcam and Glidecam.

Thanks again,

Tom

I have pushed to hire a professional steady guy from the start at least for our pilot. Then after the purchase of my unit I can practise,practise,practise before the show tapings myself.

Hi Tom,

I think that is a great idea.

I purchased my jvc gy-dv5000 camera after one years researching though I regreted that I wait a year and lost valuable time. But that is just me.

Regards
Leigh

I will be shooting multi million dollar homes that will restrict us if anything but a pair of tennis shoes touches the floor. Also, speed is of the essence as well as creative expression of a very boring medium to shoot. The big buck guys do a beautiful job (H@G, TLC) but I dont have their budget or time to shoot, this is ENG style with a smoother edge.

Hi Tom,

Another question

How much is the price range for shooting multi million dollar homes on average generally in USA?

TIA

Regards
Leigh

Leigh, the E.V.S. cost is $175.00 a weekend for the Hollywood Lite.

I plan to lease my stabilizer for US$10 per day to long term customer in USA FYI.

Regards
Leigh

No way can you (anyone) go out with a rig on for the first time and come back with something that could be considered usable.

Hi Mikko,

I am commited to help my customer fulfill this dream true. ;-) If not, maybe in a week time.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh... look at the bottom right of your posts... see that little icon with the scisors that says EDIT! USE IT! ..sorry to rant, but one line posts get annying prety quick.
When do we get to see your stabilizer leigh? 200g to 20kg? A Merlin to an Archer.. for $10 a day? Lets see what you have then!
...if it's going to make a decent operator in a week. I can only hope that is in the way of it including a coupon to an SOA workshop. ;-)

My sugestion of the Archer, which you can get for just over $20k, was based on Tom's seeming budget of somewhere under $10k for the camera and stabilizer each. - oh and yes you can get much cheaper than that..i got ahead of myself a little... for example an Steadicam SK2 is well under $10k ..no where near as nice as the archer, but would definatly do the job with a bigger camera for Tom too.

Tom,
I'd sugest when you go visit Steadicam [say hi to Frank from me] - take the 3 guys from your team with you, and have them try on the rig too! ..if not then, then when you first rent a rig to shoot or practice.
Your idea of getting a pro op for the pilot is a FANTASTIC idea ..but you have to be carefull not to sell somthign that you may not be able to delive later too. In fact i'm also going to make the crazy sugestion that you hire a steadicam operator for all the shoots.. but that kinda defeats the purpose, I know.
Keep us posted on how it turns out.

- Mikko

Hi Mikko,

I stand by what I said otherwise money back. I will deliver what I said in a short time.

Here is what I said I guarantee.

1 support camera weight from 200g(if that camera exists) to 20kg(If you can manage to carry with counter balance) using the same stabilizer
2 for $10 a day for long term renting

Regards
Leigh

Leigh... look at the bottom right of your posts... see that little icon with the scisors that says EDIT! USE IT! ..sorry to rant, but one line posts get annying prety quick.
When do we get to see your stabilizer leigh? 200g to 20kg? A Merlin to an Archer.. for $10 a day? Lets see what you have then!
...if it's going to make a decent operator in a week. I can only hope that is in the way of it including a coupon to an SOA workshop. ;-)

Leigh,

Making money doing this is something I'm not sure of right now, I guess it will depend on our budget after all expenses.

Mikko,

I called Steadicam and found they rent the Flyer at B and S here in Hollywood for $250 a day. The steadicam rig rate in L.A. is $100 an hour, 10 min per day so to get an op would cost me about $1000.

Anyway, once again, thanks,

Tom

Leigh,

Making money doing this is something I'm not sure of right now, I guess it will depend on our budget after all expenses.

Hi Tom,

I wish you successful. It is always good to be your own boss.

Regards
Leigh

Tom:

$1000/day is a good median rate for Steadicam--for a full size rig with all of the trimmings and experienced operator, you'd be looking at about twice that ($100/hr for 10 PLUS $1000 for gear) and for a newer operator with a lesser rig, $500 combined. I'd be happy to refer you to my colleagues in the local area in whichever range you prefer.

I think your choice of bringing in an op for the pilot is an excellent one; after all, you need to sell the product so you want it to be as good as possible.

Mikko's idea of having everyone in your team try on the rig is great. A skilled operator will make it look easy; it really isn't. With your experience, chances are excellent that you would be able to produce better images shooting handheld than your first day in the rig (or even 4th or 5th day!); and realize that that is a compliment more than anything else--Steadicam is not really an instinctual machine, and even someone with pre-existing and solid framing skills is often frustrated at getting the sucker to "behave" at first. I helped teach hundreds of operators at the Steadicam workshops, so believe me, I've seen it!

Please feel free to pass this opinion on to your team members straight from me.

Oh, regarding the iris issue--it's a bit tough to say. Going room to room may present some issues with level with using a manual iris, yet auto iris will surely cause clamping issues when hot windows loom into view. A manual control for iris may be the ticket; there are such devices for focus that attach to the gimbal but you could simply move the motor over from the focus gear to the iris. Interesting.

Mikko, by the way--check your post regarding DoF, I think you had something backwards regarding stopping down a 2/3" camera to get what one cannot with 1/3"--that would actually replicate the deeper focus of 1/3"?

Charles,
Do you have an e-mail address for a list of flyers? If not you can contact me at tom62@sbcglobal.net.

Thanks,

Tom Mecozzi

the smaller chip cameras will will give you a bigger DOF.. making it easier to shoot. The bigger chips will be FAR more light sensetive...which lets you close the irs for better DOF that you cant' do with the little chips.


Hmm.. now i've got myself a little confused..

What I am saying is: With larger chips you get better low light, which means that you more latitiude to close your iris to give you deeper DOF. you have more choice.
With smaller chips, they won't be as good in low light, so you will need to open the iris which will give a shallower DOF, but that may not matter as they allready have a really deep DOF.
With small chips you always get good DOF, but you are limited by low light. With larger chips you can use the iris to choose.. low light or deeper DOF?


Tom (any anyone else);
Regarding finding an Steadicam operator. I can't speak for CP's recomendations, any of whom I wouldn't hesitate to hire by his recomendation. But a good online listing of operators can be found at www.steadicam-ops.com - just search by your local state or country (for those not in the US)

- Mikko

Mikko,
D.O.P. to me isn't that important for what I'm doing as I will be wide open the whole time set on infinity through a wide angle lens. On my camera at work I love to shoot interviews on the sticks from about 20 feet with the iris wide open and the shutter set at about 2000. Beautiful compression with about a 1 foot D.O.P. on the subjects face. I could have 20 gang bangers in the background and you could never make anything out!

Tom

with all the experience you have, how important is a remote iris? Am I correct in my assumption that I don't need a remote focus because everything I shoot will be through a wide angle adapter set on infinity (D.O.P. through the small 1/3 chips is'nt as criticle as my 2/3 chips that I'm used to therfore forground objects should be in focus as well as background with the adapter?)


Hi Tom,

I think that you really don't need a single shot to through all the rooms. What you can do is to have a break for each room you shoot and adjust your iris manually before you shoot.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh,
Exactley, I do plan on seperating the rooms but I was just alittle worried about establishing a window on a slow pullout with the iris wide open for low light. So I guess in a perfect world I would need a remote ZOOM and not as criticle but if they have it a remote iris control. I spoke with Steve at B and S in hollywood and he told me he could help set me up with a Flyer and rig everything including Varizoom controls.

Thanks,

Tom

Quote:...."All handheld (on shoulder) would kill me after about 2 hours continuous plus I need steady statics...."

If this is what you need, Have a look at the EngRig for shoulder cameras and
at the DvRigPro or Junior for handheld cameras.

Danny Natovich
DvTec
www.dvtec.tv

my opinion is that steady-x devices are not good for static shoot.
they are great for motion but when you stop moving, you can not avoid balancing or small movement.

If you need to be stable for a long time while keeping some freedom, take a proper balanced shoulder mount (or build one) with a light camera on it.
i have built one with aluminum tubes for such events like concert or theatrical that can be 2 or 3 hours long, require long steady shoot.
I have worked with and believe me, i would not use my glidecam in such situation.
When i mean proper balanced shoulder system , i mean a system that keep the camera in front of you , has enough weight at the rear to keep it in equilibrium on your shoulder, so you do not need to lift the camera, but just to grab it.
in this area you can find some backpack with a rod that goes over your head.
the camera is suspended with some elastic to this rod.
I do not remember the name of this device but you can purchase it or build from a diver backpac and a aluminum tube.
I made one a never used because i still prefer the shoulder support, giving more stability.

Quote:...."All handheld (on shoulder) would kill me after about 2 hours continuous plus I need steady statics...."

If this is what you need, Have a look at the EngRig for shoulder cameras and
at the DvRigPro or Junior for handheld cameras.

Danny Natovich
DvTec
www.dvtec.tv

Actually just visit supermarket and buy a bean bag. It is just US$10 I imagine sold in USA. I got mine for NZ$15 one year ago. That way you will release your shoulder burden forever. ;-) I can guarantee that it will be steady than any man hold the camera on earth. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Leigh.. you are once more coming a little outside your knowledge.. A DVrig is not meant to be a cusion between yrou shoulder and a shoulder mounted camera (they have a pad for that reason). It is designed to hold smaller camera out in front and effectivly balance it on yrou shoulder. I'll let Danny go into details if he wishes..
And yes, as I think i mentioned, a DVrig is one solution that coudl work well for this.. similar style to ENG, except it's lighter.

Giroud, I belive you are refering to the Easyrig (http://www.easyrig.com/) Which, could actually be an EXCELENT solution for this situation. It'll hold your existing camera, and as it isn't so critically based on balance you still have full regular control of yoru camera.
The final support will be about the same as the Steadicam, without the added weight of the arm and sled.. so you can shoot longer.
Also it won't take nearly as long to master... [never used one, so I can't say how hard it is.. it doesn't *seem* that hard.. but I've heard that before somewhere... :) ] CP, have you ever used one?
Definatly a good sugestion in my oppinion. Price ins't bad either, look to be somewhere around $2000.. At least give it a try if possible.

Man, are there a lot of options out there or what?

..you coudl also mount a small Technocrane on a medium Technocrane mounted to a big Technocrane. and then just pull up to the door and shoot from there! :-O

- Mikko

Hi Mikko,

I don't know about DVrig and I know about the bean bag. I have tried various ways to experience the bean bag. I found the bean bag very useful. And it is really affordable. It can be put any position has a platform to hold it. I imagine shoulder mount device has one fixed position which is at shoulder level. Am I right on this? And you need to put more strength to use shoulder mount device than the bean bag, right? The bean bag is also very friendly to the floor. The bean bag won't wear you out for long time use compare to whatever shoulder mount device.

[Disclaim]

I don't sell any kind of bean bag. I have no relationship whatever to bean bag manufacturer.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh.. you are once more coming a little outside your knowledge..

Guys, those are all great suggestions. The bag on the floor does make for an excellent floor base. The DV rigs do look interesting but I will not have the time to switch rigs, I can only use one from the start and I'm hoping the Steadi system will give me the best of all worlds. I can't imagine squating down and trying to do a jib-like shot with a foreground object using a DV rig. I am trying to make a continuous fluid movement of interesting unusual moves along with the standard pullouts that are so common in real estate shooting. For you guys who are familiar with those systems, don't your legs still add slight movement no matter what the platform?

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

You are a really nice person. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Guys, those are all great suggestions. The bag on the floor does make for an excellent floor base. The DV rigs do look interesting but I will not have the time to switch rigs, I can only use one from the start and I'm hoping the Steadi system will give me the best of all worlds. I can't imagine squating down and trying to do a jib-like shot with a foreground object using a DV rig. I am trying to make a continuous fluid movement of interesting unusual moves along with the standard pullouts that are so common in real estate shooting. For you guys who are familiar with those systems, don't your legs still add slight movement no matter what the platform?

Thanks,

Tom

The "Steadicam like" systems are not designed for "Steady Static shoots" they are great and designed for beautiful continues camera movement.

Trying to hold a fixed, Tripod like, frame with a Steadicam is almost impossible. you will always get some wobbling.

It is also not very easy to use them for long periods and the learning curve is
Looong.

Every tool mentioned here has it's purpose and the operators experience and
practice is the most important tool and makes the difference.

The DvRigs are designed as a compromise between tripods and steady cams, for one-man documentaries and limited crew and budget productions. In such conditions there are no magic solutions, Just practice and experience.


Danny Natovich
DvTec

Thanks again,

Leigh, I'll take a compliment wherever I can so thanks.
Danny, I'll take a closer look at those rigs, hopefully B and S will have one I can rent. I guess until I try one of these things I should just shut-up and leave you guys alone-learn by doing,no better way.

Thanks again,

Tom

Hey Tom,
If B&S can't get you hooked up for a demo and you want to try a Flyer, I'm in the LA area and have a Flyer and an XL2. If you are interested in checking them out you are welcome to contact me. I've even got a house that you could wonder thoruhg, though it's certainly not the type you are talking about. I know another person in the area that has a Flyer also that may be able to help you out with operating as well. You can just shoot me an email.

Matt

Matt,
Without a doubt I'd love to see the camera and your flyer whenever you have time. I work 3-11 everyday Mon-Fri at KTLA here in L.A.
Thanks very much, I will definatley shoot you an e-mail.

Tom,

Did some ENG work in Utah and also here in CA. The new DV cameras take very worthy ENG footage as long as you don't have to do any giant telephoto shots. (XL series excluded.)

There are some great minds in this forum so you've come to the right place.

Tery

After everything I've been through over the past 20 years here in L.A., I'd love to end up in a small town in Utah,Oregon,Idaho.
Without a doubt I've found an amazing group of helpful people on this forum!

Tom

After everything I've been through over the past 20 years here in L.A., I'd love to end up in a small town in Utah,Oregon,Idaho.


Hi Tom,

Why?

Regards
Leigh

Leigh,
Terry said he worked ENG in a beautiful place like Utah, very different from the big city like L.A. Lots of opportunity here but it gets old and depressing,that is of course (ENG) shooting, not production.

Tom