SELP18110G “Smooth Motion Optics� | α lens | Sony - YouTube

E PZ 18?110*mm F4 G OSS | SELP18110G | Sony US (http://www.sony.com/electronics/camera-lenses/selp18110g)

Everything I want in a lens for the FS5, but jeez, $3500? A little steep. Maybe it will street for less.

Side note, and this is totally off-topic: Even the guy who makes videos for Sony has to hear "CAN YOU START IT WITH A TITLE SLIDE? IF YOU DON'T START IT WITH A TITLE SLIDE, NOBODY WILL KNOW WHAT IT'S ABOUT."

I want this lens...but I'm going to stick to my 18-105 and 28-135 for now. The price tag is..whew.

I thought the same. What would be the upside though when you already have metabones and Canon lenses? The 2 stop gain is a plus for Canon, better stabilisation (?) and focus for Sony. What else?

I can think of a lot of reasons why I'd like this one, 18-110 is a great range, f/4 is respectable, the three mechanical (presumably) rings are a huge bonus. $1000 would be doable, $1500 would be reachable... $2k maybe? $3500 is kind of a long way from there IMHO.

f4...a little slow for my work. And the focusing is ....mechanical or by wire? Is the zoom manual and power with the ability to manually zoom in, grab focus and get back out? In other words, is this a real cine lens or a cobbled together G lens with some cine capabilities? Just asking since I don't see these features mentioned anywhere.

My only evidence that is's mechanical focus/iris/zoom (and not f/i/z by wire) is that it would be a true crime against humanity to do focus (et al) by wire and charge $3500 for the lens. I also looked for that information in the literature and couldn't find it. Surely when they start shipping, it'll be obvious.

If you watch the video linked in the first post in this thread, you'll see at :21 the operator pulls the focus ring back. This looks similar to the lens on the Z7U I once owned. It had two positions. In the forward position you get fly-by-wire focusing, including automatic focus. Pull it back and you get true manual focusing.

That is a hell of a lot of money for a lens that only covers APS-C and Super35 - at least the FE PZ 28-135 F4 covers full frame and therefore works well with the alpha series cameras.

18 on super 35 is the equivalent of about 27 angle of view on FF so not exactly an engineering miracle from Sony. One would hope its sharper than the older FE lens.

So were you seriously considering the even slower Canon 18-80 for over $5K? or the slightly faster Fujinon 20-120 T3.5 for just a bit over 18K? or maybe the Zeiss 21-100 T/2.9-3.9 for just under 10K?
Considering that those are the 3 lenses that this one is competing with, I'd say the price is quite reasonable if the quality is there... The real test is in the ergonomics and image quality.

If you watch the video linked in the first post in this thread, you'll see at :21 the operator pulls the focus ring back. This looks similar to the lens on the Z7U I once owned. It had two positions. In the forward position you get fly-by-wire focusing, including automatic focus. Pull it back and you get true manual focusing.

Uh, no. It's going to be like the EX1 where it's using the backfocus element to do the focus despite the ring being snapped to the "Full MF" function. This is the only way they can claim no lens breathing. Do a test: see if you can maintain focus in FULL MF during a snap zoom. If you can't, the focus is a servo, like on the XDCAM EXs.

So were you seriously considering the even slower Canon 18-80 for over $5K? or the slightly faster Fujinon 20-120 T3.5 for just a bit over 18K? or maybe the Zeiss 21-100 T/2.9-3.9 for just under 10K?
Considering that those are the 3 lenses that this one is competing with, I'd say the price is quite reasonable if the quality is there... The real test is in the ergonomics and image quality.

Ahh - no. Those lenses will all be in a different league to the Sony. No I was comparing it to Sony's own FE offering which is basically the same lens made for FF only cheaper. I was also pointing out that it is usually much cheaper in optical design to cover an APS-C image circle over a FF image circle. That is why I couldn't understand the price differential.

The two lenses look almost identical in design and probably share parts and electronics. One is wider on APS-C or Super 35 but has an almost identical angle of view to the other on a full frame body like the A7S.

Yes it has some nice video centric features but if it is like the 28-135 then it will have a plastic body, CA that depends on in camera correction (which the FS700 doesn't have), softer than a vintage Angineux and a fragile mount that breaks during transport and can't be repaired ( I haven't broken mine but plenty have) - that is why I wouldn't even start to compare it with a Cabrio. Also a non-broadcast zoom. For all that I like mine but I wouldn't spend more on alens I consider similar vale.

I wonder when they will actually deliver this lens? BH Photo says Feb 10 2017. Used to be November 2016.

It looks better for APS-C cameras than the 28-135, but for $3500?? Ouch

Just took delivery yesterday of this lens w/ the FS7 MII kit yesterday. Still setting the camera up, but my first impression with the lens is pretty impressive for the money. One thing of note (I've not really checked it out fully yet) is Sony really paid attention to the complaints about the servo on the 28-135. I bought this lens mainly to have a parfocal zoom for those times I need one, but plan on mainly using primes and Canon glass w/ Metabones as I have on my other FS7. This lens however, has an amazing servo zoom! Every bit as smooth and sloooooow as my broadcast Canon glass was for my Beta. Ramps well, no lag that I can tell as of yet. Big improvement over the 28-135!

So the servo's good - be very interested in your impressions of the actual glass - sharpness and CA, both of which were a problem on the 28-135..

I don't know how much I'll actually be using it.... I never use the 28-135 all that much. Most of the time I have primes or Canon glass on there. But for the money it seems like a nice run n gun lens so far.

I went by Abel Cine in NYC today to check out the lens on their demo unit. I found out some operational things which were mostly positive. I probably will buy one soon.
The manual focus is very nice but if you find yourself in need of a closer focus than the .95m distance you get in full manual then the Auto Manual setting on the lens lets you focus around 10 inches from the lens. You could do a rack focus manually while in this mode. Very little breathing. The focus marks don't apply in this mode so not quite as nice as it could be.
The zoom with Sony handle while pretty good is not as responsive as the zooms I have used on my broadcast cameras but seemed usable.
The auto iris function is a little strange since you seem to have to put the iris in the Auto position which is past the f4 position of the iris. Not momentary Auto Iris while in manual is possible.
Lens felt pretty good handheld. Much better than the 18-105.

Before buying this lens I would definitely have a look at Fuji's new 18-55 T2.9 - cheaper, faster and better build quality but not the same focal length. Also no autofocus, but true manual focus and no power zoom (as yet) but geared for one. Parfocal, backfocus and macro ring and all reviews seem to be very positive about the quality.

They're also bringing out a longer lens (50 -135 I think?) later this year. Sigma also has 2 new cine zooms which are probably worth checking out but they aren't parfocal (so how are they cine zooms?) and the long one breathes a lot (apparently)...

John,
One of the main reasons to buy the Sony Lens is the power zoom concept. Also the longer reach makes sense to me. Of course it would be good to compare the optics side by side. NAB might be interesting to see what other lenses might be announced.

I've been curious about this 18-110 mm OSS lens so thought I would give it a quick trial on the FS7. All in all for the price I think it'a pretty good value for a useful focal length constant aperture lens, albeit f/4, that's not too heavy and comes with a servo zoom.

Could not get it to loose focus even with repeated manual crash zooms. Something you couldn't do with the earlier 28-135 version. That was zoom by fly-by-wire. This 18-110 is a true mechanical zoom with servo assistance though it does use electronic focus tracking to keep the lens groups working in a parfocal way even when you use 100% manual focusing.

It acquits itself quite well. It doesn't have any serious vices that would stop me working with one. For a 4K capable six times zoom for UD$3.5K I don't think there is anything out there to come close to it.

The only thing I felt was a bit off putting at the start was the slight lag on the iris ring of all things. It is a mechanical iris ring but it connects to the internal iris blades via a servo. Once I knew what it was doing I was okay with it, On the plus side it kinda softens any accidental iris jerks,

Summing up I'll probably get one sooner than later.

Some quick shots out in the back street can be seen here. Available in UHD 2160p for those who have fast enough connections to watch YouTube.

https://youtu.be/iQRs-8CbohQ

Alternately if you want to bypass the Tube's compression the UHD MP4 version can be downloaded from here. Beware it's 1.4GB!

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/foa94s

A 360MB down-rez rendered HD version can be had here:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/z875s9

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

this parafocal wide to short-tele zoom could close the gap between camcorders and still cameras for video applications that still require a real camcorder (complete coverage of a football game or soccer from the press box for example, where zooming and panning are to be performed often at the same time requiring a remote controller on the handle of the tripod). Unfortunately this lens didn't pass my test. I need to specify that in order to use a remote zoom controller I connected 2 cables/adapters (VMC-AVM1 and a regular av/r to 2.5mm). same connection works fine on x70 and ax100 .
the remote sets 8 zoom speeds (between constant and variable on pressure)
At a slow speed the zoom is smooth and precise (and slow enough). but faster the speed and the AF gets lost in blurland the moment you start zooming. It will be back but too late. it feels like those cheap camcorders that blur everything when zooming.
now because the price is over 3K (USD) I think that the lens needed more work in the design and production. (unless the limitation was created in purpose to keep the gap alive).

This past weekend I went to Mass Media Expo in Boston at WGBH, great event. While there I stopped by the Fujinon booth since I am getting another FS7, and check out the MK lens which I have owned the 18-55 (excellent). I was surprised to see there was a servo zoom sent up on the lens, which uses the FS7 handle.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1376889-REG/chrosziel_cdm_mk_z_compact_control_unit_for.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1376889-REG/chrosziel_cdm_mk_z_compact_control_unit_for.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801)

...complete coverage of a football game or soccer from the press box for example, where zooming and panning are to be performed often at the same time requiring a remote controller on the handle of the tripod.

I own the 18-110 but there is no way that this lens is suitable for serious football or stage entertainment at distance for a variety of reasons. a, It's not long enough even with center crop engaged, b. You need a professional ENG/EFP zoom capability to cover team sports / motor sports efficiently and c. While it does have decent focusing it's not quite in the league of a good B4 lens.

Seriously If you don't need to shoot in 4K the FS7's Super16 Center Crop function works very well with a quality adapter like the MTF B4 to S16 adapter. It's optically and CA corrected to use three chip lenses on a single S35 sensor. It's sharp to the edges on a decent HD B4 lens and even on the last of the very high end SD lenses. Lenses that cost upward of $25K that can now be bought for around $2.5-5K. The adapter will give you a crop of just on 1.32 so an 18x B4 gives you a very useful 23.76 long end. A traditional 22x ENG lens gives you a whopping 29x. Good for most sports. You will lose 0.8 of a stop in light loss but that's no big loss on an FS7 with an ENG lens that is typically f1.6. At minimum all you need to drive the setup is a 'D' Tap to 12 pin Hirose connector to power the lens. There are other cables out there that do this plus allow record stop/start from the lens or a zoom demand by connecting via Lanc to the FS7. Used in combination with quality B4 zoom demand shooting sport and entertainment is so much easier.

The end result is that you end up with a constant aperture lens of about f2.3 that is parfocal and that has a fantastic broadcast quality servo zoom that has enormous reach. I've used this combo on numerous broadcast sport and entertainment shows and the clients have loved the images. I've been totally happy with the results. Sure it's not a Fuji Cabrio but the image quality is quite surprising and for the price very hard to beat. Expands the FS7's versatility considerably.

Explanation of how the adapters work work:

Using B4 lenses on the Blackmagic Studio Camera - YouTube

Newsshooter at IBC 2015: MTF - B4 to Sony E-Mount adapter on Vimeo

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1197319-REG/mtf_services_ltd_mtb4s16sem_b4_2_3_to_super16.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1197319-REG/mtf_services_ltd_mtb4s16sem_b4_2_3_to_super16.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801)

A stage sample mid shot using an 18x with the MTF S16 adapter. Shot 1080i for BD and DVD:
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=hj3wOzL1Y-Q

Chris Young
Sydney

Chris,
That looks like a great setup. I need to rent one for my next sports shoot.

I own the 18-110 but there is no way that this lens is suitable for serious football or stage entertainment at distance for a variety of reasons. a, It's not long enough even with center crop engaged, b. You need a professional ENG/EFP zoom capability to cover team sports / motor sports efficiently and c. While it does have decent focusing it's not quite in the league of a good B4 lens.

Seriously If you don't need to shoot in 4K the FS7's Super16 Center Crop function works very well with a quality adapter like the MTF B4 to S16 adapter. It's optically and CA corrected to use three chip lenses on a single S35 sensor. It's sharp to the edges on a decent HD B4 lens and even on the last of the very high end SD lenses. Lenses that cost upward of $25K that can now be bought for around $2.5-5K. The adapter will give you a crop of just on 1.32 so an 18x B4 gives you a very useful 23.76 long end. A traditional 22x ENG lens gives you a whopping 29x. Good for most sports. You will lose 0.8 of a stop in light loss but that's no big loss on an FS7 with an ENG lens that is typically f1.6. At minimum all you need to drive the setup is a 'D' Tap to 12 pin Hirose connector to power the lens. There are other cables out there that do this plus allow record stop/start from the lens or a zoom demand by connecting via Lanc to the FS7. Used in combination with quality B4 zoom demand shooting sport and entertainment is so much easier.

The end result is that you end up with a constant aperture lens of about f2.3 that is parfocal and that has a fantastic broadcast quality servo zoom that has enormous reach. I've used this combo on numerous broadcast sport and entertainment shows and the clients have loved the images. I've been totally happy with the results. Sure it's not a Fuji Cabrio but the image quality is quite surprising and for the price very hard to beat. Expands the FS7's versatility considerably.

Explanation of how the adapters work work:

Using B4 lenses on the Blackmagic Studio Camera - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_-iYs7iegM)

Newsshooter at IBC 2015: MTF - B4 to Sony E-Mount adapter on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/139054925)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1197319-REG/mtf_services_ltd_mtb4s16sem_b4_2_3_to_super16.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1197319-REG/mtf_services_ltd_mtb4s16sem_b4_2_3_to_super16.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801/BI/2855/KBID/3801)

A stage sample mid shot using an 18x with the MTF S16 adapter. Shot 1080i for BD and DVD:
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=hj3wOzL1Y-Q

Chris Young
Sydney


Chris,
thanks! Im quoting your entire post because it deserves to be re-posted. And in 1 post you gave a complete and detailed picture of the reality and the mountains that we have to climb when lost in the marketing intentional barriers and greed of this industry.
Like everybody else I was stunned and disgusted and sad (all at the same time) when somebody came over to show me (several years ago) a 30 seconds footage from a Nikon D90. Disgusted because of what we had to shoot with at that time. The clarity of a simple D90 was light years ahead. How was THAT possible? LOL. By then I'm pretty sure that Nikon had no idea about it (they didn't sell camcorders).

I have no doubt (none) that "today" the servo zoom (wide to tele) limitation on still cameras is the current barrier imposed on the segment.

What used to be the low light (ridiculous) barrier on base camcorders is now the servo on stills

and to make my point clear I'd like to link a clip of what the low light barrier was about (with nothing to do with the size of the sensor or the sensitivity or the resolution or the lenses but only the price of the camcorder and the limited or less limited processing applied)

today that barrier doesn't work anymore because still cameras made it obsolete (the barrier).

Low Light Test of Sony PXW-X70 vs JVC GY-HM650 vs Sony PMW-400K - YouTube

Paul it works surprisingly well and overall the price/performance/flexibility ratio was a no brainer from my point of view. It's allowed the FS7 to be used on many jobs that previously couldn't be covered like power boat racing and our Bells Beach National Surfing Championships. Over crank surfing shots being one thing the older XDCam disc cams couldn't do.

If you are interested from the technical point of view this is what I have discovered with the Sony center crop mode.

Sony’s Super 16 crop sensor dimensions are 12.7mm x 6.75mm for 2178 x 1148 which results in a diagonal of 14.5mm, a fair bit larger, 32% larger than the 11mm diagonal of a 1920 HD sensor. 2178 x 1148 gives us total of 2,500,344, a resolution of approximately 2.5K. The generally accepted figure is a Bayer sensor loses about 20% of its resolution after demosaicing. For example a 4K single sensor has a resolution of 3.2 K a 2K sensor has a resolution of 1.6K and a 1920 sensor has a resolution of 1.5K.

Based on Sony’s Super 16 figures of 2178 x 1148 the center crop function results in a 2.5K crop. One could then argue the following. After applying a 20% loss in resolution after demosaicing the image produced is in the order of 2,000,275. Very close to 2K in other words.

BTW you can now buy the M4/3 mount for the S16 adapter as an extra. It comes with all necessary screws and it is then just a simple screw driver swap job if you want to use it on a BM S16 sensor camera. I think some guys have even used it on the GH series cameras in crop mode. What kind of crop results you get I've not followed up.

Chris Young

Thanks Chris,

Couple of questions, but I started a new thread here.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-pxw-fs7-fs5/536388-mtf-b4-e-mount-adapters.html#post1947782