Well, close enough, the lens is going out. Heavy buzz and vibration when zooming, and loosing focus. This is the third model camera (X180, X200, Z150) that I have bought that has had the lens go out! My X180 had to be completely replaced by Sony, my X200 was returned to B&H, now this POS is now out of service.

Sony....seriously, really, can't you make a lens that doesn't break.

Paul

Jeez... Looks like they're really lowering the quality of the servos to get that price down. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if their 28-135 full frame zoom lens has the same crap servos.

Don't jinx me, I own a 28-135 E mount! :-(

My X70 has never had an issue........

Paul

Good to hear re. the X70. My search for a EX1 replacement is getting narrow.

Sorry to hear that Paul. How long did you have the Z150 for?

I guess I have to widen my search to include the DVX200.

Really wish the Panny UX180 would hurry up and get here. Or maybe a Canon XF300 4K replacement?

Really wish the Panny UX180 would hurry up and get here. Or maybe a Canon XF300 4K replacement?

IBC is only 3 weeks so we should get some more information then.

Ron Evans

I received my Z150 on 4/20...hehe, 420.....anyway, although Sony backfocus mechanisms are garbage, their service depot in Los Angeles is great! Spoke with the same manager who dealt with my X180 fiasco, and he is working on a FedEx label for me, and assured me that labor as well as parts will be covered for a full year. I really love my Z150, and was heartbroken when it suffered the dreaded Sony backfocus problem.........the lens has been really nice. Switched back to using my X70, which is hard, never realized how front heavy the X70 is with the stupid handle and mic attached! Also noticing big time how much additional gain noise the X70 has compared to the MUCH CLEANER Z150 chip.

Paul

I am ready to go for the Z150 but that lens problem scares me. Any idea what the failure rate is? Did the service manager mention anything about an permanent repair?

The Z150 looks perfect in every other aspect.

It's not a Z150 issue, it is a Sony BRAND issue...........if you want a Sony, this is to be expected as a very likely problem, 3 out of 5 XDCAM's I purchased had backfocus problems requiring depot service within a few months of purchase.

Paul

Paul, if you are not have send it back already, can you upload a video to see the problem?

I will try, but for some reason it's not doing it, after doing it every time the camera was powered on for two days. :-\

Paul

Thanks, if sometime you got a problematic shot it will be interesting.

Imagine holding the camera at telephoto against an electric facial razor..........same sound and the image blurs as the backfocus motor buzzes.

Paul

It's not a Z150 issue, it is a Sony BRAND issue...........if you want a Sony, this is to be expected as a very likely problem, 3 out of 5 XDCAM's I purchased had backfocus problems requiring depot service within a few months of purchase.

Paul

I tend to agree. I had the problem with my FX1, NX5U and FDR-AX1 all had to have the lens unit changed under warranty. They all worked fine after lens unit was changed. Not had any problems with the consumer cameras !! SR7, SR11, XR500, CX700, or NX30U and FDR-AX100. The new AX53 I have also seems to work just fine too. Must be something about the quality control on the three ring lenses.

Ron Evans

I think this is a made in China problem, the Chinese must still be a bit angry at the Japanese from WWII and their revenge is to sabotage the stuff they build for Sony. :-)

Paul

It's not a Z150 issue, it is a Sony BRAND issue...........

I have had weird issues with the electronics on my rx10 and nex-ea50, never have been able to resolve it through my warranty as the problems went and came and each time I wanted to send the camera in it was working fine. :) My ax100 works fine though until now (knock on wood)

I'm sure cost considerations must have been one of the main priorities for Sony in the design and manufacturing of this camcorder class (handled, AF, with 3 ring control with either pure servo or hybrid zoom mechanism) over the past 6-7 years as the cheaper alternative mirrorlesses and DSLRs were gaining ground. The last Sony camcorder and camcorder with this form factor I used was the EX1R which despite relatively trouble-free in the lens (BF problems a few times but could be reset without being sent in for repair) was clearly a step or two in terms of reliability below my FX1, VX2100, and all my compact Sony consumer camcorders.

The problems especially with the lens seem to have been more frequent and serious in the later generations so much so that the distributor in my market has now practically given up on this 4-5 pound fixed lens class and focused on selling the mirrorless lines, the FS lines and then jumping up to the broadcast shoulder mounted class of cameras.

In my case the repaired units worked just fine. So the issue was the initial manufactured units in all three cases for me. Too coincidental to be anything other than quality control.

Ron Evans

Sorry to hear that Paul. How long did you have the Z150 for?

I received my Z150 on 4/20...hehe, 420.....anyway, …..l

That was a good one! Got a real chuckle out of it.

Let’s face it, though, you probably pot, …. er, put, a lot of miles on your cams. So, just wondering, what about any correlation between cam hours and, uh, shall we say, lens problems?

For what it’s worth, both the consumer cams AX100 and the AX53 lenses are Zeiss if that makes any difference.

Re. "For what it’s worth, both the consumer cams AX100 and the AX53 lenses are Zeiss if that makes any difference."

As is the X70.

I am not sure what the difference between the Zeiss and Sony G lens is.......Sony seems to push both as their premium options.....G to me reminds me of a Ford Taurus G sedan.......the base model no frills low end junk.

Paul

Sony does have different lens lines so I’m sure the consumer models don’t have the same lens specs as the pro models.

One thing I cannot stand is to pay good hard-earned money for something that is supposed to do what is advertised and then, even when well taken care of, it doesn’t hold up. Adding insult to injury is when the cheaper model doesn’t have so many problems.

Several months ago there were a number of manufacturers reps at Glazer’s Camera in Seattle and the Zeiss rep had some of their lenses on display including some that were cut in half in order to show the inner workings. If you’ve ever worked in a machine shop you can only wonder in awe at how close the tolerances must be and how complicated the mechanical lens workings must be. Just one little piece of grit could gum up, or throw a monkey wrench into, the whole works. Adding more complexity, of course, is the electronics and servo mechanisms.

With regard to Paul’s Ford Taurus example, though, just consider this, because there’s no frills there is less to break down! Well, …. at any rate, that should be the case.

And with that thought in mind, the Audi we used to have (same model that Princess Diana had although her’s was blue) was generally considered well built but when something did go awry it usually wasn’t a simple fix. Geez, just something simple like the power window switch cost a pretty penny to replace. The electrical manual was thicker than the mechanical manual. Speaking of which, it even had a warning indicator if your taillight bulb didn’t work, how neat is that? Unfortunately, even though it was a beautiful car, the electrical system, maybe akin to some lenses on camcorders, the Audi’s electrical system wasn’t it’s strongest suit.

Now if I could just find a simple and inexpensive 1936 Ford V8 convertible ….

Edit: P.S.
Paul - that has to be really, really frustrating as the cam is needed to make a living. It’s a good thing you still have the X70 to use as a backup.

As an after thought, just wondering, given all the close tolerances in the lens, maybe the lubricant they’re using is too viscus and that causes the servo mechanism to work harder. Way back in the days of 35mm (film) for the Leica cameras that went to Antarctica it was recommended to use a different lubricant (not a consumer job) so they would work in the colder temperatures while the Yashica SLR I had (this was a few years ago) worked fine.

John,

Thanks for mentioning Glazer's Camera. I was not aware of any pro video stores in the Seattle area. I was just up there for a week and had I known of that store I'd have dropped in to get the FDR-AX53, the next toy on my shopping list, along with a Canon 24mm f/1.4 for astral photography. I am frequently on travel much of the year and don't like to mail order anything since it will then be forwarded here and there, chasing me around the Pacific rim. Do you know of any others in the area?

I bought a house up there on Whidbey Island a couple years ago and hope to be living there by 2018. I've been over here in Japan since 2005, going out on aircraft carriers with the US Navy every year and as great as this job is, I guess I'm getting a little burned out. Would be great to know of any good video/photo shops up that way for when I change careers.

Okay, back to the topic...

Mark

Mark - In Japan since 2005? Wow! Talk about a culture shock when you get back to conus again! The first part is for spending so much time in the far east and the second shock part is for going back to civilian life. Of course, the service has really changed since I was in so hopefully it won’t be quite so bad in that regard, It was really top-down management back then.

As for a “pro video store” in the Seattle area, or “good video/photo shops”, I’d say that Glazer’s is a good place for photo but for video, well …. that department is much smaller than the photo one. My impression is they seem to prefer Canon but with Sony and Panasonic the selection is more limited. They also have GoPro and the Sony equivalent, sliders, and other video accessories. On the photo side of the house they have a very good selection of all kinds of used equipment available. For the photographer they have a lot, for video, the selection is less extensive. They have a helpful and knowledgeable sales staff in both photo and video.

There are a few other stores that do video in the area but I haven’t been to any of them as the traffic is terrible and my time is very limited. Bellingham near Whidby may have something too. Somewhat outside our area is Professional Video in Portland (advertiser at bottom of page). Never been there and the traffic up and down Interstate 5 is terrible too and then one gets to Portland where the traffic is as bad as Seattle.

In any event, I’d recommend calling ahead to find out if they have what you’re looking for in stock. Going the Internet route would not be good if there is an “issue” due to resolution problems.

The AX53 is a very handy cam.

John,

Nah, I'm a civilian contractor now. Did my time in the Corps long ago. Funny thing is I only spent about 10 days aboard ship in my 20 years of active duty. Now I've spent over 5 years aboard ship. But I gotta say, it's a heck of a lot better as a civilian.

I'm familiar with I-5 traffic and since I grew up in Marysville, I remember the good ole' days before all the Californian's started moving up there. I used to like going downtown Seattle for a walkabout, but nowadays there're so many bums laying around and the place is just getting a ghetto feel to it. The cops are lame, either they stand there and watch or they over-react.

Okay, so for pro video, like say a FS7 or XF305 I would need to go north or south a ways. No problem, got family in northern Oregon. Oregon - the state with weird laws, like you can't pump your own gas, but you can ride a bike or take a walk along I-5.

Not much happening on Whidbey Island, so not sure if I'll try to go pro with the video stuff or find another line of work, but I plan to be semi-retired either way. The property I bought up there includes a 2,000 sq.ft. shop with 16ft ceiling, so I can see some serious green screen work or making lots of sawdust in there.

Mark

Mark,
Okay, so for pro video, like say a FS7 or XF305 I would need to go north or south a ways.

Just checked Glazer’s web site Sony FDR-AX53 4K Ultra HD Camcorder (http://www.glazerscamera.com/sony-fdr-ax53-b-4k-camcorder) and they have the AX53 in stock.

There has been some redevelopment in the south Lake Union area and their main store was renovated. Since then they have a lot more square footage and I would assume more inventory, at least it is more spread out now. The store is split with one part on one side of the street and the other part on the other side of the street so make sure you check out both places. An unusual feature for Seattle is they have a small amount of free customer parking on site.

Edit:
And now, ladies and gentlemen, we break from this infomercial and take you back to latest BREAKING NEWS (he, he) as it happens from our field reporter Paul Anderegg and his continuing coverage of the Sony Lensgate.

Ahh, I had several AX33/53 here and ALL had backfocus errors from time to time. My X70 seems not to have this issue, but "in this moment" I found that my "new" PZ 18-105 4.0 for my a6300 has a strong backfocus error :-(!

Update on my problem........when I went to record the issue to send the camera in for repair, I could not get it to do it again. I put the camera back into service, and the issue crops up once or twice a week randomly. Since it is warrantied parts and labor for a year, i will just run it till it does it enough to ensure they can replicate at the Sony Service depot.

As for backfocus issues, the last two cameras I had to return for refund where an X180 and X200, and both of those suffered issues related to the backfocus. I guess that is what we get for demanding these silly parafocal lenses. :-)

Paul

I was set up to make a new custom PP for my Z150, when the dreaded "Sony back-focus" issue began, and would not go away...so I rolled a clip of it for your viewing pleasure. It is loud. It is annoying. It is happening on a new camera under warranty. Ugh...


https://youtu.be/Sa3b0R_Gzdo

Did the camera get a hard knock before this test? A lot of bad things seem to have happened to your multi-ring Sony camcorders. Either you have been very unlucky or the way you use your cameras may require true pro shoulder-mounted, servo-zoom but manual focus only interchangeable cameras that can better withstand rough handling than can these plasticky handycam models. I guess either a simple, palmcorder model like the Sony X70 or one in the shoulder mounted class would be more reliable for you.

I also susupect the "Made in China" and the low price points of these newer Handycams may have something to do with the reliability of the lens mechanisms.

Paul, I had just ordered a Z150 but I got a call from a buddy who needed to borrow a camera for a shoot the next morning. Seems his new Z150 was misbehaving.

I called ASAP and cancelled my order. I am glad I did not sell my trusty EX1!

Most owners of camcorders handle their baby with kid gloves but I wouldn’t put it past the box handlers (shipping and delivery handlers) to do the same. A hard landing with a cardboard box may not show up at all in its outward appearance.

Additionally, the packaging designers are making their boxes smaller (less cushion inside, less cardboard, smaller cube volume) to reduce shipping costs and be more eco-friendly. I’m all in favor of being eco-friendly but there is a tradeoff in contents protection with the luggage, er, … delivery handlers.

The electronic circuits and the very tiny servo motors could cause issues too. Colder temperatures that cause the oils in the lenses to become more viscus and require more power to operate will stress the micro electronic components. Temperature changes will cause the metal parts to expand or contract and given the fine clearances the friction between the parts can really increase. My post #23 above shows how delicate the close tolerances of a lens interior can be.

The lenses have gotten highly technical in recent years. Having said that, *stuff* happens.

My old Nikon 35 was totally reliable. Never had a problem until the light meter finally started causing problems and could no longer be fixed due to parts unavailability. This guy tugged at my heart strings:

I baby my cameras, to the point where I would never allow so much as a scratch on the case. My X180 #1 had fingerprint smudges on the inner lens elements, then X180 #2 has severe backfocus shift/float issues. My X200 on day #1 had a severe backfocus failure on a live shot, the repeated the issue on live coverage the next day, it went back to B&H on day 3. My X70 (knock on wood!) has yet to have any issues, save for a very infrequent power up with an error code, possibly something with the cheap SD cards.

I think it is the made in China factor at work. When dealing with optics and movement, you really can't take shortcuts with quality.

Paul

I baby my cameras .....l

I'm sure you do. It's your professional livelihood.

Fingerprint on a lens element, and an interior one no less? That should never, ever, happen. Isn’t this like pointing a finger at a larger issue? (No, no ….. not that one!).

There is a reason why Sony spun off the camera group into a separate entity and it has everything to do with profitability. They’re trying to cut corners everywhere they can but a company, or division (whatever), needs to be careful where to cut. Quality is no accident and a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link.

Still, while others in the delivery chain like those who handle the carton can be a factor, the packaging designers and those who design in robustness of the cam are as much a part of the product as that guy (aka jerk) with the finger on the lens.

Corporate is probably aware of more issues than we are hence the spin off. This may be a message to the group to fix up (improve the bottom line) or get the money rug pulled out from under them.

Warranty repairs and returns cost money and batting only .500 or maybe .300 just isn’t gonna make it. Buying a NEW cam shouldn’t have to be a gamble. If this was Reno, Las Vegas, or Monaco, when does one want to consider going to a different slot machine?

Paul, can you give us an update on the Z150 cameras? I still need a current second camera and the Z150 would be perfect for my work.

Do you know if Sony sorted out their problems?

I am still hanging onto my EX1! No problems with the X70 either.

I'd almost forgotten about my Z150! It's sitting on the far side of my desk, haven't used it in weeks, just went ahead and switched back to my X70. Will be sending it to Sony this month, then will probably just liquidate it on eBay. I am kinda souring on Sony. Without any sort of real matrix correction possible, the Z150 isn't really a camera I can get emotionally attached to, it's just another dumb malfunctioning tool in my tool box at this point.

Paul

It looks like I will just buy another X70! I need another Sony under $3500.00 and I don't see any dependable contenders.

there are a trio of new 1"sensor/ 4k cameras being released by panasonic which might offer an alternative to the seemingly unreliable z150.

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions

Rob, I'm kinda stuck on Sonie. Panasonic is too hard to smell.

I am a Sony guy too but the new Panasonic HC-X1 or the AG-UX180 have a lot to offer. 20x zoom, with 24mm wide angle, 50/60P UHD, DCI 4K and lots of image controls. Have touch focus etc too . If you have an iPad there is also a nice remote control app rather than the limited PlayMemories app from Sony.

@John Natnz.....There was a time in my professional still days when you shot with a Nikon F3 or you were not a pro. Best damn camera ever made! And bullet proof, even a UPS carrier could not hurt one. The only reason it had a battery at all was for the poor quality light meter and the meter was the only thing about it that was not great. But, in their defense almost all in camera meters sucked in those days. So we shot transparencies by the seat of our pants and if you missed by more than half a stop you threw it away and probably had to get another job. We did not study pixels or tech in those days we studied light.

Sorry guys....I saw John's Nikon and just had to say something.....God I hate sounding so old, I'm not THAT old!

Kind Regards,

Steve

Steven, I shot press for a while and used my F3 instead of the paper provided cameras. I got perfect negs the whole time with the "dicky little meter". I do admit that when shooting monochrome negs there is more latitude. It made it so much quicker in the darkroom as the neg exposure was almost always the same and sped up my workflow no end.

I still have and cherish my F3, but it hasn't been used for a long time now.

Hi Tim,

I should explain. I was shooting a lot world cup Ski racing at the time. No meter works well in snow, ice, and often grey skys. I carried an incident meter in my bag for that but rarely used it. The trick we used was to meter the palm of your hand. My hand is about 1/2 stop over 18% grey. Works every time.

On a sunny blue bird day at high altitude I could shoot skiers at 100 iso @ 1/500 at f16 all day and never change it. The meter might fluctuate due to composition but I had to trust my experience and stick with my guts. That is what I meant by flying with the seat of your pants. Old 18% grey meters were only good for ideal situations. Too much white and you were under exposed, reverse for black.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Tim, please don't read this as condescending. You shot with a F3. I am sure you know what I'm talking about ;-)

@ Steven ….
You aren’t THAT old!

Heck, way back when “real photographers,” the pros, shot with 8” x 10” and the press photographers used 4” x 5” cameras. The 35mm cameras were considered “miniature” while 120mm, or 2-1/4, was kind of an in-between size. My first camera as a kid was a box camera that used the 120 film and was replaced by an Argus C3 “the brick”. Still have both! Bought Kodak Panatomic-X film in 100ft rolls and rolled my own cartridges using a changing bag and Nikor tanks for developing. Maybe this should be placed under the other thread of when one should buy and sell?

In school we used 4x5 press cameras (forgot the brand), probably and both Roliflex and Yashica TLRs (Twin Lens Reflex) cameras. Had a Yashica 35 SLR for awhile but it kept having problems so bit the bullet and picked up the Nikon Photomic T. End of having problems except for the light meter toward the end. Got into video with an 8mm Bell & Howell briefly but then went with a Sekonic turret lens cam, another keeper.

One of the things in the Nikon kit that’s neat is the Nikon folding fan flash that used M2 bulbs. It’s almost a work of art. Had a Weston Master V light meter which my estate will probably wonder what it was used for.

So, yeah, you aren’t that old.

I am a Sony guy too but the new Panasonic HC-X1 or the AG-UX180 have a lot to offer. 20x zoom, with 24mm wide angle, 50/60P UHD, DCI 4K and lots of image controls. Have touch focus etc too . If you have an iPad there is also a nice remote control app rather than the limited PlayMemories app from Sony.

Number 1 thing the Panasonic UX180 has going for it, is a full 16 segment color matrix control menu...that means you can point 16 different primary, secondary, and thirdary colors at their proper vectorscope locations, unlike the Sony, which let's you manipulate only 2.

Paul

Well, I am unhappy to report that in addition to the backfocus mechanism vibrating and blurring out, it has now rendered my camera non parfocal. Noticed this in my latest 4K clips I shot. All of my wide angle footage was very soft, or to be more correct, out of focus. Typically, I only see my footage in the little FCPX preview box, and when it airs in 720p60 at home. With my new 4K TV, I have been exited to shoot more 4K clips, so I can actually notice these issues on tripod shots most.

To test this, a few minutes ago I went outside and zoomed in on a car license tag, and used 8x expand to get it in critical focus. I then zoomed fully out, and as expected, the image went soft, visible in the 8x expanded focus. I have to ever ever ever so gently turn the focus ring to snap it all sharp. You X70 and Z150 owners know how much of a PITA full wide angle critical focus changes can be...you barely touch the dial and you've gone from infinity to macro, so this is a serious issue. If you look a the latest clip in my Z150 4K thread, you will be able to see every wide angle shot is out of focus, especially obvious in vehicle license tags. If you look at my older clips, prior to reporting the lens dying, you will find tac sharp wide angle images.

It would appear the backfocus is OFF...you cannot shoot at infinit spin infinity and have the shot in focus wide any longer on this camera. On my 2/3" cameras I would simply zoom in to find focus, zoom out, loosen backfocus lock, turn the ring to regain wide alignment, lock down, done. On this camera, no such luck. Sony, you are lucky you include MPEG-TS streaming on your stupid cameras, because that is the ONLY thing keeping me reliant on your products. :-P

Paul

Adding 4K frame grab, view full size to see "da blur"

I never manual focus any of my small Sony's. Touch focus is the only way I have found that they get in focus and then always at the zoom framing I want because they will go out if moved too much. The standard way of zoom in, focus and then frame does not work, or at least never worked for me on any of these. That is AX100, AX53, NX30U, CX700 and all the ones before too like XR500 etc that I have had. Touch focus gets it sharp if there is enough light. Since the Z150 does not have touch screen this is not available !!!

Paul - That is a real bummer and on a pro cam which is one’s livelihood. One would think that a pro cam should be more robust than a consumer cam because the user counts on it for a living and it would get more use.

Although you aren’t a repairman perhaps in your dealings you may have some insight, so, by any chance, do you know if the back focus uses a servo motor?

Assuming it uses a servo motor, probably one of those corkscrew things, don't now. I do know that these damn "electronic backfocus" lenses are a nightmare, you've seen my posted problems with them, with the video clips to back them up, it's ridiculous. And it's always the same issue, my X180, my X200, now this Z150, all have backfocus issues. Wide angle infinity shots are practically the simplest and easiest to not screw up, yet my Z150 is not able to pull that off anymore. :-(

Paul