Hello Everyone !

Please bear with me as I give a little background, and why I need help. Also, I am sure that many of the questions I have, and will have. will to many, if not most of you will seem elemental, and for that I ask for your patience and understanding.

I am new in the field, and need some help for my son (I'm a single dad, he is 24), who has Autism. My reason for seeking help here, is that given the relative lack of opportunities for a person with Autism to have a fulfilling life and employment career, I have thought about starting him in his own video production business, ultimately with the goal of selling his finished work. I will not go into details here, but I do believe there is a niche in which he is highly interested which has some possibilities.

I am a complete novice, and as with most things in his life,I will be there to teach him and help him along the way. As a newbie,I ask your forgiveness in advance for what I am sure will be many questions, but his challenges are my challenges, and I learned a long time ago that breaking things down into small steps, is for him, the most productive way to teach him a new skill. A quick word about my son. From my observation, he takes to technology VERY well. I am not saying he is a savant, but sometimes it sure seems like it. Sorry for the rather long introduction.

Please keep in mind that the goal is to sell DVD's of his production(s), in HD, BluRay, and probably/possibly one day 4K/UHD. . I have pretty well decided, that a 4K "capable" camera is the way to go looking into the future, and I have looked into and researched many cameras. Among the ones I am considering are:
Panasonic
AG DVX 200
XCX 1000
AG UX 180
AG UX 90

JVC
GY HM 200
GY LS 300

Sony
PXW X 70
PXW Z 150
PXW Z 100
FDR AX 1
PXW FS 5

These are some of the cameras I am considering and is not meant to be all inclusive. By all means, if anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. What I am looking for, is a very shallow learning curve, relatively speaking of course. Ideally something as close as point and shoot as we can get, and still fill our needs. I know that it is the photographer, or in this case, the videographer that makes the video, but we need all the help (camera) that we can get. I realize that learning and using manual controls are critical to achieving the best results. My thought is that during the "teaching period" I could use the camera in "auto" mode as positive reinforcement for my son, and then, over time, introduce the manual features and their use to refine and enhance his skill level and eventually begin production. I am under no illusion about the difficulties I may be facing in this task, however, if I did not think it might be possible, I would not be making the attempt. At this point, I would have to say, that nearly 100% of the shooting will be done from a tripod, and outdoors during daylight. We will not be trying to make Gone With the Wind, but rather much more simple things like (our actual shots will be none of these, which are given as reference) farm equipment in use, airplanes, ships, etc. I will be purchasing two cameras, with one as a back up (we will be traveling for our shoots, and I thought it would be wise to have a back up). I know that many of you will at least think that perhaps I should be looking at something a little less complicated to learn on, but it is harder by far, for him anyway , to "unteach" a skill learned and try to teach a similar skill a different way. It would be "easier" to teach the skill on the camera he will be using for production. Any thoughts/insights on the cameras I have listed, or any others will be appreciated. I decided to start with the camera, and as I have said, plans are to sell his production(s) as DVD's in HD, Blu Ray, and when the time and technology is right 4K/UHD. I have read that it is estimated that by 2026 half the viewing screens in this country (USA) will be 4K. He will be doing the filming, editing, order filling, etc, with help when needed.

I have "looked" at the cameras listed above,looked at the specs, read the articles, etc., but my fundamental lack of knowledge has led me here to seek guidance and insight to try and shorten the learning curve for me and my son. As we go along, I will have many other questions, and I thank all of you in advance for any help and advice you are willing to give . With him and his needs included, I have a full day now, but I am willing to put in the work to learn the things I need in order to make things understandable for him.

My purpose as I have said, is to give my son a reasonable opportunity at a fulfilling life and career opportunity that few persons with Autism have a chance at. It is also my hope, that if we can be successful, we can be, in some way, an inspiration to those who have a loved one with Autism. Perhaps my son, if successful may serve as an example of what can be possible. Honestly, I do not know with a certainty if he can do this. I think he can, and for him it will be no different than any of the other things he has learned (which most people take for granted), the difference is that this time, he is going to be learning to use a video camera (to start with).

I thank you very much for your attention while reading this rather long communication, and I thank you any help, advice, suggestions that you are willing to give.

Thanks,
Michael and Mackenzie (son)

You indicate that most of the shooting will be outside in daylight on a tripod. Can you be more specific regarding the subject matter? Will you need slow motion? Will there be a lot of movement from the subjects? Would you prefer a high dynamic range cinematic type image or better ergonomics from an ENG type camera? Will you need good autofocus?

You might consider starting out with a more modest camera like the Sony A6300 at $1000 (plus lenses and rigging) and then when that works out, you can move up to an FS5 and use the A6300 as B-cam, with the ability to share lenses with each other.

Or you might consider a similar step-up approach with the Blackmagic micro cinema camera (with EF to mft speedbooster), then moving up to the Blackmagic EF URSA Mini 4k or 4.6k.

Hi Michael,

I applaud your intentions. In no way do I want to detract from them but I do have concerns. First, the biggest problem is that you will be his mentor/educator and you do not have the knowledge to do so. You are asking about cameras, a very small part of the professional video production world. Have you done any research on the industry? Have you put together a business plan about how you will make money at it?

With that said I would like to offer some helpful advice. Have you considered trying to find him an internship with a working videographer or possibly a TV station. He could be exposed to the industry and accelerate his learning curve. He would be putting his hands on real equipment and the two of you could learn together from someone who knows how it works.

Michael, please believe this. My advice would almost be exactly the same for anyone that wrote your post even if you took out the autistic part. This forum and every other one like it is littered with posts from people that don't own a camera and have virtually no experience in video production. Yet some how they think that in a relatively short period of time they are going to be profitable enough to quit their day job and go on happily ever after. Very, very few of them ever make a dime of profit.

I hate to sound so negative but I call it the way I see it. I am not discouraging you from trying to succeed at your goals. I sincerely hope you make it. I hope you understand they are lofty goals for almost anyone to achieve when you are starting from the starting gate.

As you pursue this endeavor I wish you all the success in the world.

Kind Regards,

Steve

You indicate that most of the shooting will be outside in daylight on a tripod. Can you be more specific regarding the subject matter? Will you need slow motion? Will there be a lot of movement from the subjects? Would you prefer a high dynamic range cinematic type image or better ergonomics from an ENG type camera? Will you need good autofocus?

You might consider starting out with a more modest camera like the Sony A6300 at $1000 (plus lenses and rigging) and then when that works out, you can move up to an FS5 and use the A6300 as B-cam, with the ability to share lenses with each other.

Or you might consider a similar step-up approach with the Blackmagic micro cinema camera (with EF to mft speedbooster), then moving up to the Blackmagic EF URSA Mini 4k or 4.6k.

Stephen,

Thanks for the reply ! The subject will be moving, sometimes at a fairly decent pace. I do not belive or anticipate ever needing slow motion. As I indicated in my post, I intend to use the "auto" mode of whatever camera I purchase as a positive reinforcer , an then over time, introduce the various manual features How long it will take until a usable shot is made is anyone's guess.

I understand you mentioning the use of a more modest camera initially, but the probable confusion (and his probable frustration that would accompany that confusion), that would come with switching cameras, has led me to conclude that learning (no matter the difficulty) on the camera intended for production is, for him, the smoothest path.


Thanks,

Michael

Also what is your budget? The camera's you list range from 3K to 6k+ if you also need to buy lenses.
Personally I would start with a camera that has a fixed lens like the DVX 200 and you are all set, with a camera like the fs5 and ls300 you need to consider buying lenses and that will easily double the price for a set of good quality glass, the fs5 and ls300 are also not so good in all auto functions compared to a fixed lens camera that usually also has a smaller sensor and is easier to maintain focus.

I also would choose a camera that has all the functionality you would expect from a professional camera like build in ND's, 3 rings on the lens for zoom, focus and iris, physical switches on the side for iso, whitebalance and xlr connectivity.

The reason why this is important is because you need that to learn the camera basics which you can only do with a camera where you can change every setting manually through easy accessible buttons or switches.

Then you need to teach yourself first what impact each setting has, like when to set a ND, what f-stop to choose and why, what shutter to select, how to read the histogram because that is your exposure, how to set and interpret the zebras, how to assure you nail the focus and then shoot for hours and look on your pc what the result is. everytime something doesn't look right you need to ask yourself, or us if you can't figure it out, why it is happening so you can correct the mistake next time. It's important that you first exactly know how it's supposed to be done because like you said, it's easier to teach a person with autism something new then it is to unteach them something they have become used to.

I think it is awesome what you are planning to do, my youngest daugther is a teacher for children with autism that are 12 years old, she only has a group of 6 children because each child needs individual guidance. I hear from her how different they can be in what they are capable off so if you see that your son has a special talent for technology then the best you can do is to help him to see where his limits are and even try to push him beyond that and don't let anyone tell you what he cannot do because of his disability.

Hi Michael,

I applaud your intentions. In no way do I want to detract from them but I do have concerns. First, the biggest problem is that you will be his mentor/educator and you do not have the knowledge to do so. You are asking about cameras, a very small part of the professional video production world. Have you done any research on the industry? Have you put together a business plan about how you will make money at it?

With that said I would like to offer some helpful advice. Have you considered trying to find him an internship with a working videographer or possibly a TV station. He could be exposed to the industry and accelerate his learning curve. He would be putting his hands on real equipment and the two of you could learn together from someone who knows how it works.

Michael, please believe this. My advice would almost be exactly the same for anyone that wrote your post even if you took out the autistic part. This forum and every other one like it is littered with posts from people that don't own a camera and have virtually no experience in video production. Yet some how they think that in a relatively short period of time they are going to be profitable enough to quit their day job and go on happily ever after. Very, very few of them ever make a dime of profit.

I hate to sound so negative but I call it the way I see it. I am not discouraging you from trying to succeed at your goals. I sincerely hope you make it. I hope you understand they are lofty goals for almost anyone to achieve when you are starting from the starting gate.

As you pursue this endeavor I wish you all the success in the world.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Hey Steve,

First, thank you for the reply. I am aware, of course, of my lack of knowledge in this field, specifically, in this case, about cameras, but, I did not know anything about Autism either, until I had to learn about it. I have done research ( a lot of it), and I have at this point a pretty decent idea of what lies ahead, filming, editing etc,. from a production stand point, and I have identified a niche in which he is highly interested (this is most important, and I can not express his interest highly enough), which if done properly, can generate a modest revenue stream. He/we will never get wealthy, but it will give him a purpose, and hopefully a satisfying life and career over the next 30-40 years.

I am having a difficult time as of now locating someone who would be willing to be a mentor. It could be because I am not using the right search key words (though I have been using the ones I can think of), here in CT.

I understand your skepticism, and as I said in my post, I honestly do not know if he can do this. I think he can, and I have learned not to underestimate him (especially if he is motivated). Is it a huge challenge, yes, it definitely is, but then again so have many of the things he has learned, the only thing different this time is that he will be learning to use a video camera (which will take a while).

Ultimately, time will tell , if he is capable, and if I am up to the task of teaching him the things he needs to know. Keep the observations coming, and if you have any advice on equipment or technique, that would be great. I am also concurrently exploring my options for the editing process, and there is a lot to learn there as well, but I thought I would start with the camera(s)

Thanks,

Michael

Also what is your budget? The camera's you list range from 3K to 6k+ if you also need to buy lenses.
Personally I would start with a camera that has a fixed lens like the DVX 200 and you are all set, with a camera like the fs5 and ls300 you need to consider buying lenses and that will easily double the price for a set of good quality glass, the fs5 and ls300 are also not so good in all auto functions compared to a fixed lens camera that usually also has a smaller sensor and is easier to maintain focus.

I also would choose a camera that has all the functionality you would expect from a professional camera like build in ND's, 3 rings on the lens for zoom, focus and iris, physical switches on the side for iso, whitebalance and xlr connectivity.

The reason why this is important is because you need that to learn the camera basics which you can only do with a camera where you can change every setting manually through easy accessible buttons or switches.

Then you need to teach yourself first what impact each setting has, like when to set a ND, what f-stop to choose and why, what shutter to select, how to read the histogram because that is your exposure, how to set and interpret the zebras, how to assure you nail the focus and then shoot for hours and look on your pc what the result is. everytime something doesn't look right you need to ask yourself, or us if you can't figure it out, why it is happening so you can correct the mistake next time. It's important that you first exactly know how it's supposed to be done because like you said, it's easier to teach a person with autism something new then it is to unteach them something they have become used to.

I think it is awesome what you are planning to do, my youngest daugther is a teacher for children with autism that are 12 years old, she only has a group of 6 children because each child needs individual guidance. I hear from her how different they can be in what they are capable off so if you see that your son has a special talent for technology then the best you can do is to help him to see where his limits are and even try to push him beyond that and don't let anyone tell you what he cannot do because of his disability.

Noa,

Thank you very much for the reply. Let me begin by saying how special your daughter must be. It is one thing to live and work with Autism because you are personally affected, and it is entirely different to voluntarily take on the task. I have nothing but the highest regard for people like your daughter who take this horrible affliction on voluntarily. In my book, anyone who does so is a very, very special person.

In my budget which is penciled in for two cameras, a new computer with editing software, various other equipment like a tripod, microphone, lenses(if needed), monitor, storage medium, I have a flexible budget of $5,000 per camera. Hoping for less, but it is what it is.

I have considered what you said in connection with the Panasonic DVX 200, and you make valid and correct points about how I am going to have to progress with this once I make the purchase. You are also very right in your statement about how much easier it is to teach (if done properly) a new skill, than to try to "unteach" an old one. Glad someone understands.

Everything you said makes sense to me, especially about the fixed lens aspect. As you saw in my list in my post, the DVX200 is one of the ones I am considering, along with some others. I have seen pretty good reviews of the JVC HM 200, and of course there are the Sony cameras. With my being new, I was hopeful that experienced users (as you have done) would, knowing my challenge, give me better insight as to which camera might make the best possible fit.

Once again, thank you for the reply, and please tell your daughter how special I believer her to be.


Michael

Steven makes good points about video as a small business. I've seen many, many, many people who think media production is a great and growing field that they would enjoy. Most are looking for some starting point, typically employment or education.

It may or may not be beyond Mackenzie's current capabilities to enroll in courses in a workshop, community organization, or community college environment, but it may serve you well to do so.

It's not just about how to use a camera. Almost any video or film production is about using various tools in storytelling. Of course any new business also needs its story told.

Traction. How to get that traction. You seem to have decided that learning and helping your son learn basic camera work as applied to an unstated area of content is that point where the two of you will find traction. Well enough, though you should know that many come to my college courses with a mission, and some want instructors and courses to conform instruction to support that mission, but, most end up doing something different than they first imagined.

Storytelling with a camera takes sound and editing, which are considerable studies in themselves. Unless you're thinking about stock videography. This is a business whose time has mostly come and gone - (almost) everyone can afford a camera now, it's crippled what was once a good market.

This is good, though some would disagree. I have a friend who once specialized in stock wildlife and scenic photography, he went through several agencies and started his own library as well. It was good for many years, now the bottom has fallen out and he is teaching the next generations of photographers.

It is good, in that the great democratization of video/film production enables anyone with a good story to reach an audience, perhaps even making some money along the way.

Good storytelling. Reaching an audience. A camera is just a tool along the way, that is needed at one stage of the production process. It's hard to give any meaningful feedback about your plans without also discussing the other phases. Pretty pictures are important, but so are many other things!

Seth,

Thank you for the reply, and the words of wisdom and experience. I know it is difficult to evaluate my "plan": without further information, but if you are willing to discuss what I have in mind in more detail, PM me. As I've said the niche that I have picked out is one in which Mackenzie is HIGHLY interested, and this will be an asset as we go through the learning process. He will be in top form as far as his concentration level goes in order to get to his final result, of which we have numerous examples.

I take your point about getting more formal instruction for myself, and I have been actively searching for local video clubs as I thought that might be a good place to start.. You and Steven are correct in that the act of recording with a camera is only a step in the whole process, but what I have in mind once we somewhat master the image capture on the face of it, does not seem over complicated or beyond where we will be in a skill level as far as the editing process goes. I know that is easy for me to say having never done video editing, but the examples of what I have that are similar to what I envision what Mackenzie will be doing do not seem to be beyond reach.

Again, I recognize the probable hard road ahead (main reason why I am here), and I truly appreciate each and every comment, suggestion, tip, question, and bit of advice that the members here are willing to give. As I looked around, I have tried to come up with an idea that was motivating for my son now and in the future as a career and indeed a lifestyle that was an alternative to what typically is available for a young adult with Autism. Ever since he was first diagnosed, it has been my mantra that as I looked back, I never wanted to say "I wish I would have done this, or I could have done that", knock on wood, so far I have not has to say either.. The line in Superman...". the father becomes the son, and the son becomes the father" has been inside me for years. You may rest assured, that if Mackenzie can do this, I will move mountains and do whatever it takes to see it done.

Again, thanks for your input, and if you wish more details, feel free to PM me.

Michael

Michael -- first, I would like to offer you a (belated) welcome to DV Info Net. You have already received some excellent input and advice so far. More will follow I'm sure; but I have a couple of tips for you. I cannot relate but I can certainly appreciate the challenges you are facing as a single parent in a very special situation. I know I'm speaking for the entire community when I say that we all wish you the very best with everything.

How often do you go into the city, and are you already aware of B&H at 9th & 34th? They have a superb touch & try area where you can see and handle all of these camcorders in person. If Mackenzie is up for such a trip, this will be a most useful way to evaluate which is the "right" camera... that is, which one feels *best* in his hands. Ultimately, regarding camera selection, that's the most important criteria. You've already done your homework and you have your narrowed-down short list. Any one of those that you have already mentioned will be fine. They all have automatic and semi-automatic and full manual shooting modes, which are useful for learning as you go. Start with full auto, and concentrate on framing and composition. Then, step up to semi-auto and begin to take more control over the image. Any of these camcorders will suffice. There is no "wrong" choice.

B&H is a huge, sprawling retail space. If he's never been in there before, it may prove daunting for Mackenzie (even I can get lost in there sometimes... there's just so much to see). If he would prefer a smaller and more quiet environment, then pay a visit to Abel Cine, on the 5th floor at 609 Greenwich in lower Manhattan. They also have a very well-equipped touch & try demo area with nearly all of the cameras on your list.

B&H is huge and has everything. Abel Cine is more like a specialty boutique; "smaller on purpose" and may be better suited for a visit by you and your son. Both shops have *excellent* staff who will take very good care of you. My point here though is that you really should see these cameras and get your hands on them in person before you make a purchase decision. The two of you will know which one is right when you can both pick them up and hold them. B&H and Abel Cine provide the opportunity for you to do that.

Also, there are two trade shows coming up soon in the city and you would benefit greatly from attending one or both. The first is PhotoPlus Expo (http://www.photoplusexpo.com/) at Javits convention center (11th & 34th) on Oct. 20-22 and the second is NAB East (http://www.nabshowny.com/), also at Javits, on Nov. 9-10. The "plus" in PhotoPlus is video. There's a lot of video at PhotoPlus. And there's even more video at NAB. You should take a very close look at the seminars and conferences that both shows are holding, as I'm sure you will greatly benefit from attending either one or both of these. I'm hoping to be there for both as well.

Best regards and undoubtedly there will be more to follow in this thread. Good luck!

I would like to echo Chris's warm welcome. Also, I'd like to echo Steven's comments. He answered the least of your original questions, but his advice was much more helpful than the folks calling out specific camera models.

I am the king of analogies, both good and bad, so let me lay this one out here for you. I want to get my son involved in doing deliveries. What kind of vehicle should I buy?

As you may know about delivering things, "what kind of vehicle should I buy" is a crucial question. But ahead of that is... delivering pizzas, delivering mobile homes, or delivering mail? How much do your deliveries weigh? What kind of license would be needed? What kind of certifications? Who would the customers be? Do they have any money? Do they have existing delivery partners? If so, why would they choose me? If not, why would they choose me?

You seem a bit tight-lipped about what your niche is. Perhaps rightfully so, I have some "secret sauce" to what I do, and while I post here to help others, I stop short of telling people what sets me apart. At the same time, I can tell you that I do mainly corporate videography, selling video to companies advertising products B2B. Most of my work is shown via web (website, YouTube, social media, trade pub, etc), and a minority is shown direct to consumer on an iPad or a conference room projector. Similarly, the wedding video guys all have something that sets them apart. However, they are all selling the same thing. You don't have to give up your secret sauce, but give us some direction on what it is you want to do. It would help you far more than knowing what model number camera someone's favorite is.

In my budget which is penciled in for two cameras, a new computer with editing software, various other equipment like a tripod, microphone, lenses(if needed), monitor, storage medium, I have a flexible budget of $5,000 per camera.

Personally I have the feeling that the journey is more important to you then the destination but I think if you want to reach that destination it's important to know what you will be shooting to be able to give you some advice which camera's might be best suited for that task, you are spending a lot of money so you better be well informed to be sure you will not be disappointed about your choice. I"m a weddingvideographer so for me lightsensitive camera's are important and I like them to be small so I can shoot without being noticed. A fs5 or ls300 would do for my purpose but I would prefer to have a panasonic gh4 and even smaller the panasonic gx80. Other weddingvideographers might prefer a dvx200 and put a videolight on it because they want to have a all in one solution and don't want to be messing with adding a nd-filter or buying separate lenses. If you shoot stage performances then a dvx200 alike camera would also be much better with a fixed lens that has a controlled variable zoom or if you want to deliver to a tv station then the codec is one of the factors that will determine what camera you need to buy etc...

The cameras you list are all nice, but in my personal opinion they seem a little too advanced for a beginner.

I actually started back in 2012 and learnt on one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-1920x1080p-Camcorder-Inbuilt-Recording/dp/B0031RG4EK

It has auto and limited manual. It allowed me to nail important things such as the story but also how to set white balance, why that's important, what zebras are, how to frame shots, interview technique.

Phillip Bloom famously shot a piece with a Barbie doll camera.

This was my first ever piece, shot exclusively with the camera I linked above:

http://media.ncl.ac.uk/pages/film/bbc11/#num=01&id=1105

(It's a little slow loading sorry)

It's dreadful! Look at the cars flying across the bridge at the start because I sped it up! But it's reasonably priced dreadful. If I had a more professional camera, would I have achieved the same standard of work? Probably not. In fact, there's a good chance it would be worse as I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't splash out $$$$'s for an expensive camera if it's not what you need right now. There is a long way for him to go before he starts making money. Nail the basics first.

I hope that's useful, like others have said, I'm not trying to discourage you, I think it sounds ace and it's a wonderful business to be in. I love it! But we all have to start somewhere :) I've only been at this a few years and I only just got a HC-X1000 last year (I wouldn't recommend it btw) and I still have a long way to go. Hope that's helpful in some way!

Michael -- first, I would like to offer you a (belated) welcome to DV Info Net. You have already received some excellent input and advice so far. More will follow I'm sure; but I have a couple of tips for you. I cannot relate but I can certainly appreciate the challenges you are facing as a single parent in a very special situation. I know I'm speaking for the entire community when I say that we all wish you the very best with everything.

How often do you go into the city, and are you already aware of B&H at 9th & 34th? They have a superb touch & try area where you can see and handle all of these camcorders in person. If Mackenzie is up for such a trip, this will be a most useful way to evaluate which is the "right" camera... that is, which one feels *best* in his hands. Ultimately, regarding camera selection, that's the most important criteria. You've already done your homework and you have your narrowed-down short list. Any one of those that you have already mentioned will be fine. They all have automatic and semi-automatic and full manual shooting modes, which are useful for learning as you go. Start with full auto, and concentrate on framing and composition. Then, step up to semi-auto and begin to take more control over the image. Any of these camcorders will suffice. There is no "wrong" choice.

B&H is a huge, sprawling retail space. If he's never been in there before, it may prove daunting for Mackenzie (even I can get lost in there sometimes... there's just so much to see). If he would prefer a smaller and more quiet environment, then pay a visit to Abel Cine, on the 5th floor at 609 Greenwich in lower Manhattan. They also have a very well-equipped touch & try demo area with nearly all of the cameras on your list.

B&H is huge and has everything. Abel Cine is more like a specialty boutique; "smaller on purpose" and may be better suited for a visit by you and your son. Both shops have *excellent* staff who will take very good care of you. My point here though is that you really should see these cameras and get your hands on them in person before you make a purchase decision. The two of you will know which one is right when you can both pick them up and hold them. B&H and Abel Cine provide the opportunity for you to do that.

Also, there are two trade shows coming up soon in the city and you would benefit greatly from attending one or both. The first is PhotoPlus Expo (http://www.photoplusexpo.com/) at Javits convention center (11th & 34th) on Oct. 20-22 and the second is NAB East (http://www.nabshowny.com/), also at Javits, on Nov. 9-10. The "plus" in PhotoPlus is video. There's a lot of video at PhotoPlus. And there's even more video at NAB. You should take a very close look at the seminars and conferences that both shows are holding, as I'm sure you will greatly benefit from attending either one or both of these. I'm hoping to be there for both as well.

Best regards and undoubtedly there will be more to follow in this thread. Good luck!

Chris,

Thank you for the reply and the welcome! It is funny that you mention B&H as I have been contemplating a trip there. I agree that it would be invaluable to see and hold these cameras before I make a purchase. I was not aware of Able Cine, and will have to check them out.

Thank you also for the heads up about the two conferences at the Javits Center. I will have to see if I can fit one or both of them in, as I am sure they will be great.

Michael

I would like to echo Chris's warm welcome. Also, I'd like to echo Steven's comments. He answered the least of your original questions, but his advice was much more helpful than the folks calling out specific camera models.

I am the king of analogies, both good and bad, so let me lay this one out here for you. I want to get my son involved in doing deliveries. What kind of vehicle should I buy?

As you may know about delivering things, "what kind of vehicle should I buy" is a crucial question. But ahead of that is... delivering pizzas, delivering mobile homes, or delivering mail? How much do your deliveries weigh? What kind of license would be needed? What kind of certifications? Who would the customers be? Do they have any money? Do they have existing delivery partners? If so, why would they choose me? If not, why would they choose me?

You seem a bit tight-lipped about what your niche is. Perhaps rightfully so, I have some "secret sauce" to what I do, and while I post here to help others, I stop short of telling people what sets me apart. At the same time, I can tell you that I do mainly corporate videography, selling video to companies advertising products B2B. Most of my work is shown via web (website, YouTube, social media, trade pub, etc), and a minority is shown direct to consumer on an iPad or a conference room projector. Similarly, the wedding video guys all have something that sets them apart. However, they are all selling the same thing. You don't have to give up your secret sauce, but give us some direction on what it is you want to do. It would help you far more than knowing what model number camera someone's favorite is.


Mike,

Thank you for the reply ! When I have more time later this evening, or in the next day or so, I will expand on what you have said. This idea came to me out of the blue on July 9th, and since then, every spare moment I have has been devoted to learning as much as I can about as much as I can in this field. I have said that I am not 100% positive that my son can do this (though I think that he can), and my first checkpoint if you will is finding that out, which is why I have asked specifically about cameras at this juncture. If he can not "master" the camera, then obviously everything else is moot.

I will be back in touch, thanks again for the reply.

Michael

Personally I have the feeling that the journey is more important to you then the destination but I think if you want to reach that destination it's important to know what you will be shooting to be able to give you some advice which camera's might be best suited for that task, you are spending a lot of money so you better be well informed to be sure you will not be disappointed about your choice. I"m a weddingvideographer so for me lightsensitive camera's are important and I like them to be small so I can shoot without being noticed. A fs5 or ls300 would do for my purpose but I would prefer to have a panasonic gh4 and even smaller the panasonic gx80. Other weddingvideographers might prefer a dvx200 and put a videolight on it because they want to have a all in one solution and don't want to be messing with adding a nd-filter or buying separate lenses. If you shoot stage performances then a dvx200 alike camera would also be much better with a fixed lens that has a controlled variable zoom or if you want to deliver to a tv station then the codec is one of the factors that will determine what camera you need to buy etc...

Noa,

Thank you for the reply. I have thought about what you said, the journey is at least as important as the destination given Mackenzie's deficit. As I look ahead (and if things work out the way I hope they do), our shots will be nearly 100% outdoors during daylight, and because of who he is probably 100% from a tripod. I obviously want to apply "best practice" and produce the best visuals that we are able. That is one reason that I thought a 4K capable camera made sense because of the capability to downconvert to HD thus producing better visuals, and then of course one day being able to take advantage of 4K when it matures. PM if you wish, and we can discuss further.

Thanks,

Michael

The cameras you list are all nice, but in my personal opinion they seem a little too advanced for a beginner.

I actually started back in 2012 and learnt on one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-1920x1080p-Camcorder-Inbuilt-Recording/dp/B0031RG4EK

It has auto and limited manual. It allowed me to nail important things such as the story but also how to set white balance, why that's important, what zebras are, how to frame shots, interview technique.

Phillip Bloom famously shot a piece with a Barbie doll camera.

This was my first ever piece, shot exclusively with the camera I linked above:

http://media.ncl.ac.uk/pages/film/bbc11/#num=01&id=1105

(It's a little slow loading sorry)

It's dreadful! Look at the cars flying across the bridge at the start because I sped it up! But it's reasonably priced dreadful. If I had a more professional camera, would I have achieved the same standard of work? Probably not. In fact, there's a good chance it would be worse as I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't splash out $$$$'s for an expensive camera if it's not what you need right now. There is a long way for him to go before he starts making money. Nail the basics first.

I hope that's useful, like others have said, I'm not trying to discourage you, I think it sounds ace and it's a wonderful business to be in. I love it! But we all have to start somewhere :) I've only been at this a few years and I only just got a HC-X1000 last year (I wouldn't recommend it btw) and I still have a long way to go. Hope that's helpful in some way!


Nathan,

Thank you for your reply and your insight ! I tried to watch your clip, but could not find it out of the 5 or 6 that were listed. I will try again later when I have a little more time.

You and others are right about starting with a less advanced camera if my son were like everyone else, however given the way he internalizes things and the with his deficit, it would be so much more of a task than simply teaching him on the camera we intend to use for production however difficult that will be in and of itself. It is tough to explain, but I have learned the hard way that sometimes (most times), that the easy way is not always the best way, especially when thinking beyond the present moment and looking into the future. I know it does not make sense and seems counter intuitive,but everything has to be thought of in terms of future application and appropriateness in a literal sense. I wish that this were not the case, but it is, so we have to make do with the tools and abilities that we have and try to maximize them.

Thanks for the insight on the HC-X1000. Every comment,suggestion, tip, bit of advice, or words of wisdom is helpful.

Thanks,

Michael

Thank you for the reply and the welcome! It is funny that you mention B&H as I have been contemplating a trip there... I was not aware of Able Cine, and will have to check them out.

As a matter of disclosure, I should say that both companies are trusted site sponsors of DV Info Net who run banner ads here.

But that doesn't alter the fact that they are your best local options for hands-on demo and touch & try.

I also neglected to provide their links:

AbelCine is at AbelCine - Equipment Sales, Finance, Training, Rental, Tech Services (http://www.abelcine.com/store/home.php)

B&H is at B&H Photo Video Hours of Operation (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/HelpCenter/HoursOfOperation.jsp)

I've linked to the B&H hours of operation page. You should check it before making a trip into town. That's because they sharply observe a holiday schedule which is completely orthodox to many folks, but might seem somewhat unusual to others who may be unfamiliar with the B&H family. Are they open? Know before you go. Check their hours of operation page.

Hope this helps,

For a beginner, I would stay away from any camera with removable lens, just adds a whole other layer of complexity. I did have a trial period with the JVC HM200 and not impressed - low light is very poor, and even in good lighting, the image gets darker as you zoom, so at telephoto end you are getting a much darker image even in daylight.

I've always been a Sony user for 24 years. A friend recently got the X70 and I've used it several times and the images are amazing!! That said, I'm quite experienced with Sony cameras and it took some effort to get used to working with the controls. Found that by programming several of the custom buttons to do different things made life easier, but again this was using my years of experience and poring over the manual to figure it out. My friend is not as adaptable as me and is struggling with it.

My personal preference is to have three lens rings to allow manual adjustment of zoom, focus, and iris. Those are important to me for smooth operation without jumping through hoops - so many new smaller cams have only a single ring (which maybe allows you to assign what it does), but then the other functions have to do done some other way which can be awkward.

Most of the cameras on your list on what I would consider "high end" for a beginner. I didn't see the Sony NX-100 on your list, which might be a decent pro-sumer model to start with, however it does not offer 4K. If you want to start simple, maybe a Sony CX900, but again, HD only. Both provide 24x zoom which might benefit your outdoor shooting.

That's my two cents

Thanks

Jeff Pulera

Jeff,

Thank you for the reply, and the information it contained. I have come to the conclusion as well that, at least for now, a camera with interchangeable lenses should be something that is better off considered in the future, and then only if great progress is made in our collective abilities. I gather you did not care very much for the JVC HM 200, and it sounds like the Sony X 70, in your opinion may not be the easiest to work with either.

I know that for our situation, just starting out with no experience, all of these cameras are going to pose elevated learning curves for us, but as I have said about my son's learning style, we will have to bite the bullet so to speak, and try to get a camera that hopefully we can manage to learn in a "reasonable"" time frame, and then progress ,after much practice to see what we can do.

I do wonder what the new Panasonic cameras (UX 180, UX 90) that are due out Oct.-Nov. will be like.
Again, thank you for your reply and information.

Michael

I would like to echo Chris's warm welcome. Also, I'd like to echo Steven's comments. He answered the least of your original questions, but his advice was much more helpful than the folks calling out specific camera models.

I am the king of analogies, both good and bad, so let me lay this one out here for you. I want to get my son involved in doing deliveries. What kind of vehicle should I buy?

As you may know about delivering things, "what kind of vehicle should I buy" is a crucial question. But ahead of that is... delivering pizzas, delivering mobile homes, or delivering mail? How much do your deliveries weigh? What kind of license would be needed? What kind of certifications? Who would the customers be? Do they have any money? Do they have existing delivery partners? If so, why would they choose me? If not, why would they choose me?

You seem a bit tight-lipped about what your niche is. Perhaps rightfully so, I have some "secret sauce" to what I do, and while I post here to help others, I stop short of telling people what sets me apart. At the same time, I can tell you that I do mainly corporate videography, selling video to companies advertising products B2B. Most of my work is shown via web (website, YouTube, social media, trade pub, etc), and a minority is shown direct to consumer on an iPad or a conference room projector. Similarly, the wedding video guys all have something that sets them apart. However, they are all selling the same thing. You don't have to give up your secret sauce, but give us some direction on what it is you want to do. It would help you far more than knowing what model number camera someone's favorite is.

Hey Mike:

In order to help clarify, as I have said, our shots will be virtually 100% outdoors during daylight hours, and given the way Mackenzie operates, just as likely 100% from a tripod. I do have a definite niche in mind and it (I think) will be our main area of focus mainly because of his interest, but there are other things which I may "suggest" to him. One of those things may be filming tugboats pushing barges on the inland waterways (his grandfather worked on such a boat for 40 years ending as a captain). That is one example, but we will not be straying very far from that example. Using this example, outside of the basic filming, and possibly a narrative, there is not much more of a "story" to tell especially when compared to other things being filmed. I know that our lessor abilities and experience preclude us for the foreseeable future from doing anything beyond basic film making.

I am hoping that my son can do this, but until we try, I have no idea if he can. I think he can, but it really is a roll of the dice, though I will do everything in my power to ensure his success.

Thanks again for your input.

Michael

Sounds like he may want to look at doing stock video. If you are not familiar with that check out pond5.com.

Mark,

Thank you for the reply . No, will not consider stock footage. As Noa said earlier in this thread, the journey is as important as the destination. It is my belief that my son (and frankly everyone) should push the boundaries of the possible. Again, though I think that he can do this, I am not certain, and will not know unless we try. Thanks again for the reply.

Michael

Yes my original reply (second one in the thread) was based on the assumption that you were referring to going into general video production of one kind or another. As things unfolded it is now pretty clear that you have a unique singular idea in mind. You are protecting it with cloak and dagger. That is perfectly fine, we get it. I am not sure you understand several people have said we could serve you far better with details of the shooting scenario. As Mike said, we don't need to know your secret sauce, You can make up any parallel scenario you want. You are asking for advice. If this outdoor shooting scenario your referring to is a field team sport compared to man on the street interviews our advise would be dramatically different for those two scenarios.

I think you need to help us help you. You are already talking to several busy, professional, videographers with decades of experience. There are probably others that would be happy to help but some of them are not going to waste their valuable time on a lack of details. There are a lot of unwritten rules on forums and they change from one to the next. This is the most genuine board I have ever seen. My advise would be to let you know that a cloak of total secrecy and requests for PMs will not become as productive for you as this board can be. It is a great forum, welcome aboard. Please keep the secret sauce, but help us help you.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Is the hope to make money from this venture, or is it a hobby for you/your son? The answer will help guide my advice going forward.

I think you need to help us help you.

Steve is right, alltough I and probably others won't mind answering through a PM you will be much better served if it's discussed on this forum as people you have not reached out to personally will jump in as well to give you advise based on their experience. You will get different opinions but eventually it will be up to you to decide which path to follow.

I think you don't need to explain any further about the challenges your son and yourself will be facing as that is already clear but now you need to be focusing on the tools you will be using and if you want advice you need to give us something to work with, so far we know it has to be a camera that has a good enough all auto functionality but that it must have manual functionality you would expect from a professional video camera and that you are only going to shoot in good light conditions and on a tripod.

You don't need to be very specific about what you are going to shoot but you could say if you are going to shoot interviews, or sports, or wildlife. In your camerachoice their is a difference between fixed lens camera's and camera's you have to buy lenses for. The fixed lens camera's are usually easier to work with and are fully functional after you buy them, camera's with exchangeable lenses need an extra investment on lenses and can need extra accessories (mainly dslr's) to make them production ready, they do give you more creative possibilities ranging from a very shallow dof (depending on sensor size), low light capabilities, lens choices that enable you to shoot macro, fisheye, tele but they are also more difficult to deal with then a regular videocamera with a fixed lens.

Let me pop in with a couple "secrets"... many of us change cameras quite often, because the tech changes rapidly. We get frustrated with feature additions/subtractions/changes, it's 100% normal... I read online reviews and see the "reviewers" struggling with things because they don't know a specific camera brand well enough to understand how to get the most out of it... I know Sony gear fairly well, and am a bit "lost" on a Panasonic gear, despite having owned a few, for instance. If WE struggle sometimes, it's 100% expected and OK if your son does <wink>.


The basics of camera use stay the same - shutter speed, iris/gain, white balance, etc. are camera independent - but in order to "work" with any camera and get the best out of it, it's important to know the fundamentals of the "mechanical operation"- most of it can be picked up from photography sites, books or You Tube videos for beginners. Knowing the fundamentals will ALWAYS give you and your son something to start with, whatever camera(s) you eventually shoot with. As is oft repeated here, CONTENT is what makes the video (or stills) interesting to a larger (monetize-able) audience, NOT what "gear" was used to shoot it. Look at "viral videos"... most look pretty bad, but the CONTENT is what gets the hits/followers/watchers.



Keep in mind to find the learning style that is best for your son, that's important for "learners", regardless of their abilities - you can turn someone off fast, regardless of interest, if you don't find their particular learning style (some like to read, others see pictures or video, others like "hands on"). You probably already have some feel for how your son best absorbs information and new concepts. Once the concepts are part of his skill set, figuring out which button(s) to press won't be too hard, but we ALL struggle with it sometimes!


Keep in mind that "grip" (supporting "stuff") can be almost as expensive as the camera, things like a tripod can be as tricky as the camera! There's a whole section on such things here at DVi! I have monopods that are more expensive than the cameras I used to shoot with (my tripods are relatively cheap but adequate for my needs)....and a large collection of "toys" for different shooting scenarios...


As far as camera considerations, most of us who have shot 4K find it to be well worth the effort, but it does require knowing those "basics" to get the most out of it. Depending on your subject matter, you will want to consider the lens zoom range (shooting things across a harbor is entirely different from shooting interviews, for instance). Some cameras just "feel" more natural for the user (and every user is a "bit" different, so... different cameras!).

I shoot an AX100 (X70's "prosumer" li'l brother), the DSC-RX10M2 (same general "guts" as the AX100, but a newer sensor, in a "still" camera format that is also good for video). The RX10M3 is on my "buy list", for the longer lens range. I also have an RX100M4 for close in, casual use, as it's easier to have with me and again shares similar "guts" with the RX10M2. I'm pretty comfortable getting what I want out of those cameras, and the prices aren't outrageous. I would say that these cameras felt very "right" to me from the minute I got them, so I shot more stills and footage.- you are correct that having a camera that "fits" for your son will be helpful for him!

A first generation RX10 (doesn't have 4K, and a few other minor things) can be had for relatively cheap (used) and would shoot excellent HD to get you started... I upgraded mine, but still really nice cameras.

With that, I'll repeat one other secret - it's the camera you HAVE that gets the shot, not the one you're researching... you can analyze gear almost forever, but the camera in the hand is the one that counts, even if it's a cell phone! Once your son "gets the bug", you can always upgrade and sell the "entry level" stuff - that's probably how every one of us here started... we picked up a camera, and somehow became enchanted by "capturing" a moment (or a "few", with video), and now we see things "through a lens"... hopefully your son will catch the same "bug" we all suffer from and learn to express things in his own unique and special way!

Sorry for the length, but hopefully these thoughts will be helpful in your quest - we all want the best for our kids, and it's always a challenge - your son is lucky to have a dad who is "involved", just remember to let him find his own way too... I have three "normal" (relatively anyway...) kids, and they all have their own unique ways of seeing things and dealing with this thing we call life... sometimes you just have to be supportive and hang on!

Yes my original reply (second one in the thread) was based on the assumption that you were referring to going into general video production of one kind or another. As things unfolded it is now pretty clear that you have a unique singular idea in mind. You are protecting it with cloak and dagger. That is perfectly fine, we get it. I am not sure you understand several people have said we could serve you far better with details of the shooting scenario. As Mike said, we don't need to know your secret sauce, You can make up any parallel scenario you want. You are asking for advice. If this outdoor shooting scenario your referring to is a field team sport compared to man on the street interviews our advise would be dramatically different for those two scenarios.

I think you need to help us help you. You are already talking to several busy, professional, videographers with decades of experience. There are probably others that would be happy to help but some of them are not going to waste their valuable time on a lack of details. There are a lot of unwritten rules on forums and they change from one to the next. This is the most genuine board I have ever seen. My advise would be to let you know that a cloak of total secrecy and requests for PMs will not become as productive for you as this board can be. It is a great forum, welcome aboard. Please keep the secret sauce, but help us help you.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Steve,

Thank you for the reply ! I am sorry for the consternation that my hesitation at full disclosure has caused you and other members of this message board. My only defense is my new status and not fully understanding of what you guys needed in order to give me the help, tips, advice, etc., that I am seeking. My son will be filming (hopefully) big rig trucks, semi-tractor trailers, or whatever else they are known by. He has an affinity for them, and has had since he was small. He owns several DVD's of these trucks, and since he is highly motivated by the subject, I can use the DVD's that he owns as a model of how things need to look. It is my belief that with his high motivation factor, that it will ease the long learning and practicing road that is ahead before we ever contemplate beginning doing any production work.

Again, I am sorry for any ill feelings I may have inadvertently caused, and I really am thankful for all the comments that I have received. If any other information is needed to help you and others to help me, please let me know.

Thanks,

Michael

Is the hope to make money from this venture, or is it a hobby for you/your son? The answer will help guide my advice going forward.

Mike,

I would not describe it as a hobby, and yes would certainly like to make at least some income (at least to offset expenses). I guess I would describe it as a way and or a hope to give my son a purpose in and for his life. If it can generate income, that would be great and we will be working toward that goal. As it stands now, he is looking at life that will be in and out of adult day care. I'd like to push him a little farther than that, if I can. I would like, as much as possible ,for him to feel the same sense of accomplishment and satisfaction that most of us feel in our jobs. Yet, he is most definitely not a people person so his skills are more regimented to doing things on his own, somewhat apart from others. As i have said, if we can be successful, it is also my hope that he can be an inspiration, an example, even perhaps a role model for others that are like him and their families, of what can be possible.

Again, thank you for the reply.

Michael

Let me pop in with a couple "secrets"... many of us change cameras quite often, because the tech changes rapidly. We get frustrated with feature additions/subtractions/changes, it's 100% normal... I read online reviews and see the "reviewers" struggling with things because they don't know a specific camera brand well enough to understand how to get the most out of it... I know Sony gear fairly well, and am a bit "lost" on a Panasonic gear, despite having owned a few, for instance. If WE struggle sometimes, it's 100% expected and OK if your son does <wink>.


The basics of camera use stay the same - shutter speed, iris/gain, white balance, etc. are camera independent - but in order to "work" with any camera and get the best out of it, it's important to know the fundamentals of the "mechanical operation"- most of it can be picked up from photography sites, books or You Tube videos for beginners. Knowing the fundamentals will ALWAYS give you and your son something to start with, whatever camera(s) you eventually shoot with. As is oft repeated here, CONTENT is what makes the video (or stills) interesting to a larger (monetize-able) audience, NOT what "gear" was used to shoot it. Look at "viral videos"... most look pretty bad, but the CONTENT is what gets the hits/followers/watchers.



Keep in mind to find the learning style that is best for your son, that's important for "learners", regardless of their abilities - you can turn someone off fast, regardless of interest, if you don't find their particular learning style (some like to read, others see pictures or video, others like "hands on"). You probably already have some feel for how your son best absorbs information and new concepts. Once the concepts are part of his skill set, figuring out which button(s) to press won't be too hard, but we ALL struggle with it sometimes!


Keep in mind that "grip" (supporting "stuff") can be almost as expensive as the camera, things like a tripod can be as tricky as the camera! There's a whole section on such things here at DVi! I have monopods that are more expensive than the cameras I used to shoot with (my tripods are relatively cheap but adequate for my needs)....and a large collection of "toys" for different shooting scenarios...


As far as camera considerations, most of us who have shot 4K find it to be well worth the effort, but it does require knowing those "basics" to get the most out of it. Depending on your subject matter, you will want to consider the lens zoom range (shooting things across a harbor is entirely different from shooting interviews, for instance). Some cameras just "feel" more natural for the user (and every user is a "bit" different, so... different cameras!).

I shoot an AX100 (X70's "prosumer" li'l brother), the DSC-RX10M2 (same general "guts" as the AX100, but a newer sensor, in a "still" camera format that is also good for video). The RX10M3 is on my "buy list", for the longer lens range. I also have an RX100M4 for close in, casual use, as it's easier to have with me and again shares similar "guts" with the RX10M2. I'm pretty comfortable getting what I want out of those cameras, and the prices aren't outrageous. I would say that these cameras felt very "right" to me from the minute I got them, so I shot more stills and footage.- you are correct that having a camera that "fits" for your son will be helpful for him!

A first generation RX10 (doesn't have 4K, and a few other minor things) can be had for relatively cheap (used) and would shoot excellent HD to get you started... I upgraded mine, but still really nice cameras.

With that, I'll repeat one other secret - it's the camera you HAVE that gets the shot, not the one you're researching... you can analyze gear almost forever, but the camera in the hand is the one that counts, even if it's a cell phone! Once your son "gets the bug", you can always upgrade and sell the "entry level" stuff - that's probably how every one of us here started... we picked up a camera, and somehow became enchanted by "capturing" a moment (or a "few", with video), and now we see things "through a lens"... hopefully your son will catch the same "bug" we all suffer from and learn to express things in his own unique and special way!

Sorry for the length, but hopefully these thoughts will be helpful in your quest - we all want the best for our kids, and it's always a challenge - your son is lucky to have a dad who is "involved", just remember to let him find his own way too... I have three "normal" (relatively anyway...) kids, and they all have their own unique ways of seeing things and dealing with this thing we call life... sometimes you just have to be supportive and hang on!

Dave,

Thank you for the kind and very informative reply ! I do learn something every time I come to the message board through your efforts and those of the other members, and for that, I am highly appreciative.

I have tried in my inadequate way to describe my son's challenging learning methodology and the reason(s) why I will have to do things the way that I will. He is a very visual learner, with I think a near photographic memory, the challenge is breaking down a new skill to be learned into the proper small steps that he needs to internalize them. Once he has internalized something, it is there. As I mentioned to Steve in another post, my son has a model to refer to, and with his motivation properly directed, I do believe success is obtainable even if it takes a while.

Thanks again for your insights.

Michael

Steve is right, alltough I and probably others won't mind answering through a PM you will be much better served if it's discussed on this forum as people you have not reached out to personally will jump in as well to give you advise based on their experience. You will get different opinions but eventually it will be up to you to decide which path to follow.

I think you don't need to explain any further about the challenges your son and yourself will be facing as that is already clear but now you need to be focusing on the tools you will be using and if you want advice you need to give us something to work with, so far we know it has to be a camera that has a good enough all auto functionality but that it must have manual functionality you would expect from a professional video camera and that you are only going to shoot in good light conditions and on a tripod.

You don't need to be very specific about what you are going to shoot but you could say if you are going to shoot interviews, or sports, or wildlife. In your camerachoice their is a difference between fixed lens camera's and camera's you have to buy lenses for. The fixed lens camera's are usually easier to work with and are fully functional after you buy them, camera's with exchangeable lenses need an extra investment on lenses and can need extra accessories (mainly dslr's) to make them production ready, they do give you more creative possibilities ranging from a very shallow dof (depending on sensor size), low light capabilities, lens choices that enable you to shoot macro, fisheye, tele but they are also more difficult to deal with then a regular videocamera with a fixed lens.


Noa,

Once again, thank you for the reply. If you look at the replies that I have made to Steve, Mike and Dave, hopefully the points you have raised have been addressed. As always, I am very thankful for any comments that you or any other member make, as I begin this quest. I know I have taken on a huge challenge, but what is life without a little adversity.

Michael

Hi Michael!
I am slowly working my way through all these replies, so as I see something, I will be adding comments.

For the group, a general overview of autism might be in order. First of all, autism is described as a spectrum of disabilities. Some are more exaggerated than others. While there may be general similarities, each child/adult is different. They have their own "peculiarities". Socialization is difficult for them. They usually have one thing that interests them and they hyperfocus on it.

My own son is now 25. He was diagnosed with Aspergers when he was 12. Aspergers has been described as high functioning autism. In my son's case, he has an IQ of 141 and graduated from college two years ago with an English degree in Creative Writing. He graduated in four years and was able to maintain a 2.5 GPA to keep his scholarships. Along the way there were many challenges. The most difficult of which was organizational skills to effectively study and complete assignments.

I have coached youth soccer for 20 years. Soccer is probably the most studied sport in the world. There are coaches handbooks available that specificly address age appropriate skills. At a national coaches convention one year, I attended a session on psychological training. As I listened to the presenter, my mind related the concepts he was describing to applications that would aid my son educationally.

At the end of the session, I introduced myself to the presenter and related my thoughts. In the course of our discussion, he inquired where my son went to school. I told him, and said so-and-so was the mens soccer coach there and that I should ask him if he would become a non-academic advisor to my son. Backing up, when I attended a college visit with my daughter at the same school, one of the speakers was the athletic director. He was talking about students having different needs and related the story of his daughter. She had been a soccer player and was injured during her sophomore year which ended her playing career. She became depressed and her grades began to suffer. The AD found a tutor for her and she improved her grades. That's when my lightbulb came on! The athletic department knows more about helping students with learning difficulties than any other department in the school and they have access to the tutoring resources to assist the student athlete.

Back to my story. Coaches also have to be great motivators, so they are usually pretty good at applied psychology. Just what my son needed! I sent the coach a letter asking if he would be willing to take on my son as a non-academic advisor and he said yes. This consisted of my son meeting with him once a week for about 15 minutes. The coach would made contact with all my son's instructors, so when my son came in, he knew what his status was. He was someone my son felt comfortable with and the coach was a great influence for the next two years.

Mike, you mentioned difficultly finding a mentor for your son. Think outside the box. One idea, contact the local television stations and give them your contact information. Ask if they would contact any of their retired camera people inquire if any of them would be interested in working with your son. That's where my mentor of the past ten years came from. You may find one or more who would jump at the opportunity. You may find one that has the patience and demeanor that meshes with your sons personality. Another source may be a local college. It may be a retired instructor or even a current student who is studying video production or another class that incorporates use of audio and video equipment.

Ed,

Thank you for the reply, and the very helpful suggestions about looking for a mentor. I began, and thought that a local video club would be a good place to start, but apparently there are none in my immediate area. I will expand my search beyond my immediate area, and also see what I am able to cultivate via colleges, universities, and the television stations.

Congratulations on the success your son has had to date, and good job with the effort, I have no doubt you expended, in helping him over the years to get him to to the place he is now.

Keep up the good work, and thank you for sharing a little bit of your story.

Mike

Michael,

No apology necessary for anything. You caused no distress. My posts are sometimes blunt, but I never mean to be rude. I was simply trying to figure out how to help out the best I can. As I said, your endeavor is admirable.

I love to see anyone pursue a dream or work towards a difficult success. If I was not a risk taker myself I would be in a different profession :-)

Now that I have a direction I will try to provide some positive input as time permits.

Kind Regards,

Steve

I would suggest a niche business that has a moderate tech dimension without a complex marketing dimension.

The business model you pick is much more important than selection of any camera.

One example that might be worth looking into is live data broadcast of events in theaters that have limited seating.

If you build a proposal kit that makes it easy for show producers to get one-time distribution rights, it should be fairly easy to get clients on board with the notion that with local blackout, a live data broadcast offers a non-competing means of multiplying box office sales (e.g. 3 times more subscribers). Some hosting agents do the marketing, collect the ticket revenue, and remit something like 66% of the revenue to the producers.

Live performance recordings (especially opera) require a lot of concentration, tracking actors as they come on stage in crowds and then at times go down to solo/duet/small groups then back to full cast - your son might b able to do a very good job here.

Once you get a theater on board, there can be a lot of repeat business.

A good cam for this is a fixed lens - long zoom cam as recordings typically have to be done from the back of halls oftentimes at a distance of 60 -75 feet. I use a Panasonic AG-AC160A for this type of work.

I own a software company that builds and sells software to mental health clinics/hospitals - we have a customer (USA midwest) that is a center of excellence in Autism, they use a world wide knowledge base on Autism that we built for their ongoing use - they might be able to provide advice/assistance at a distance.

If you want to have a brief chat, call me at 450 458 5601 (east coast time zone).

Michael,

No apology necessary for anything. You caused no distress. My posts are sometimes blunt, but I never mean to be rude. I was simply trying to figure out how to help out the best I can. As I said, your endeavor is admirable.

I love to see anyone pursue a dream or work towards a difficult success. If I was not a risk taker myself I would be in a different profession :-)

Now that I have a direction I will try to provide some positive input as time permits.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Steve,

Thank you for the reply. That is good to hear (that I did not offend you, nor hopefully, anyone else), as I really am relying on the members here to fill in for the knowledge and experience that I do not have. I look forward to any further input that you (and others) may have.

Thanks,

Mike

I would suggest a niche business that has a moderate tech dimension without a complex marketing dimension.

The business model you pick is much more important than selection of any camera.

One example that might be worth looking into is live data broadcast of events in theaters that have limited seating.

If you build a proposal kit that makes it easy for show producers to get one-time distribution rights, it should be fairly easy to get clients on board with the notion that with local blackout, a live data broadcast offers a non-competing means of multiplying box office sales (e.g. 3 times more subscribers). Some hosting agents do the marketing, collect the ticket revenue, and remit something like 66% of the revenue to the producers.

Live performance recordings (especially opera) require a lot of concentration, tracking actors as they come on stage in crowds and then at times go down to solo/duet/small groups then back to full cast - your son might b able to do a very good job here.

Once you get a theater on board, there can be a lot of repeat business.

A good cam for this is a fixed lens - long zoom cam as recordings typically have to be done from the back of halls oftentimes at a distance of 60 -75 feet. I use a Panasonic AG-AC160A for this type of work.

I own a software company that builds and sells software to mental health clinics/hospitals - we have a customer (USA midwest) that is a center of excellence in Autism, they use a world wide knowledge base on Autism that we built for their ongoing use - they might be able to provide advice/assistance at a distance.

If you want to have a brief chat, call me at 450 458 5601 (east coast time zone).

Karl,

Thank you for the reply, and the information it contained. I agree that the business model is important, at least as important as any equipment, and I have given it a lot of thought. I have a rough idea on how I hope to proceed,though that can and probably will change as I gain more knowledge, and get advice from my new friends here.

Thank you,

Michael

Hey Everyone:

Yesterday was a "Mackenzie Day" as Saturdays have been for years in which we get out and try to do things which are fun and or interesting. The day ended at Texas Roadhouse-he loves steak, and as we were having dinner, a few questions came to mind.

What kind of insurance should I look into ? Will my regular home owner's policy or car insurance take care of the business needs,, especially when and if we go on site for filming ? Will I need some type of permit or license to do this ?

Another question that came to mind, assuming that I end up with a camera that was on my list or one similar, will a shotgun directional microphone be adequate, and if so, from how far away will it pick up sound ?
As I understand it, a directional mic picks up sound from whatever direction it is pointed to, hopefully that is the case, as I am sure from time to time I will be giving verbal directions to my son, and I probably will not want those to be included in the video, just the sounds of the trucks that he is filming..

Thanks,

Michael

Your idea of shooting big machinery is a good one. It is a true niche market in that there are little boys (and apparently older boys with autism!) who really enjoy watching this kind of thing.

My suggestion to you is that you spend ~$300 on a videocamera and < $50 on a tripod and go out and shoot some. You will want to teach the basics of the idea that the rocker switch zooms in and out and that the red button records. Most of this stuff will be the same between all cameras. Start a youtube channel, "Mackenzie's Big Trucks", and start uploading clips. Edit in the editing interface on YouTube, or maybe before you upload on whatever comes with your computer, iMovie or Windows Movie Maker. Don't overthink it.

In a week or two (or a month or two), step back and look at what is working and what isn't working. My gut feel is that the stuff you're worried about (what kind of camera should I buy, how much insurance do I need) won't be a problem.

Monetize the YouTube channel and promote it. Once you have a bunch of subscribers and a bunch of clips, you could (maybe) release and sell a DVD or something. I think in the short term (a couple of years) you could make enough to clear the cost of the equipment, and in the long term you could maybe bring in a few bucks here and there. I think you could possibly sell stock video and make a few more bucks there.

But I think as a hobby that might make a few bucks, it's a solid idea.

Follow up with questions if you have them.

Mike,

Thank you for the reply and the information it contained. Perhaps I could use your idea(s) concurrently with my original main goal. I am intending to set up a web site for my son's business, and I could interlace your idea(s) to drive traffic to the site..

The type of camera you suggest may ultimately be the fall back position, however for now I think we are still going to pursue a production type camera for the reasons I have listed. This venture may turn out to be just a hobby, but we are going into this intending it to be an occupation and hopefully a years spanning career for my son.

Again, thank you for the reply and the great ideas.

Michael

Hey Everyone:

I have some more questions in a business sense. Can travel expenses mileage, lodging, meals, be written off ? Can equipment purchases be written off in the year they are made, or do they have to be depreciated over several years ?

I am almost certainly going to be purchasing a monitor/recorder no matter which camera I end up buying. I think it will greatly aid Mackenzie's task. Does anyone have any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Mike

You should consult a licensed tax advisor with your tax questions. In a legitimate business environment, business expenses can be written off. You can depreciate assets instead of writing them off.

You are really putting the cart ahead of the horse here. Start small. Grow.

The same advice I give to indy filmmakers applies to you. Take whatever you have - your cell phone, your point & shoot camera, your DSLR - and go out and make a film. Make 10. Make 100. When you cannot possibly move forward without a tool, buy it. Do not buy everything you need up front. First, you never get to the end of the list if things you "need", and second, you have no idea what you'll need until you make 1 or 10 or 100 films. I would gladly tell you what you need, except I need vastly different things than you. If you buy everything I need, you'll have all the wrong stuff.

Tomorrow, take your cell phone and your kid and go out and take video of a construction site. Take it home and edit it. Do not shoot for 8 hours or 12 hours, shoot for 15 or 30 minutes. Do this every day, or several times a week. In a month, show us what you've got and come back with a list of complaints about your footage. We'll help you move forward.

Good advice . . . .

I took one year to decide what equipment to buy.

I had been in/out of photography since the 1970s but did not have any experience in video.

I started with a small JVC mini-camcorder and followed your suggested approach (every day, 15/30 mins) - I spent as much time learning about recording as editing.

I bought the AC-AG160A after one year of research.

You should consult a licensed tax advisor with your tax questions. In a legitimate business environment, business expenses can be written off. You can depreciate assets instead of writing them off.

You are really putting the cart ahead of the horse here. Start small. Grow.

The same advice I give to indy filmmakers applies to you. Take whatever you have - your cell phone, your point & shoot camera, your DSLR - and go out and make a film. Make 10. Make 100. When you cannot possibly move forward without a tool, buy it. Do not buy everything you need up front. First, you never get to the end of the list if things you "need", and second, you have no idea what you'll need until you make 1 or 10 or 100 films. I would gladly tell you what you need, except I need vastly different things than you. If you buy everything I need, you'll have all the wrong stuff.

Tomorrow, take your cell phone and your kid and go out and take video of a construction site. Take it home and edit it. Do not shoot for 8 hours or 12 hours, shoot for 15 or 30 minutes. Do this every day, or several times a week. In a month, show us what you've got and come back with a list of complaints about your footage. We'll help you move forward.

I will echo a couple of the items Mike and Karl have posted.

I, too, took a year to research cameras, mics and lights before I made my purchases. I spent about $10,000 before I even shot a minute of tape. One year later, I realized I could do everything I was doing with less expensive equipment and spent less than $1,000 doing it. Lessons learned.

After ten years, I purchased a new flash memory based camera to replace my old tape based camera. That was $4,000. Why? because over the ten years, I have expanded the types of things I shoot, and I now need the camera with more bells and whistles.

Having said that, along the way, a couple years ago, I purchased a Canon HF R300 for $250. It is a small handheld, consumer camcorder, but most importantly, it has a microphone input and a headphone output as well as a 50x optical zoom. This is my "travel cam". Combined with small LED lights on monopods, a tripod for the camcorder and a small shotgun and battery powered lavelier mic, I have a setup that I can take on location and set up in a matter of minutes. I used it two weeks ago for two interviews. The first included shots lakeside and in a motor boat. The second was in a museum. The quality is excellent!

As has been said, the movie The Blair Witch Project proved that audio is more important than video. Spend you money on a good microphone! If you cannot hear the sounds you want to hear, all the high definition video is useless.

I still use the bigger camcorder, but it is better suited for studio use when I have multiple interviews.

Another portable that I am using is an iPad Mini 3 with the Filmic Pro application.

This is an excellent starter kit if you already have an iPhone or iPad. The application provides full control of aperature, shutter speed, white balance and zoom. Rode makes several excellent microphones for iDevices and provides a free app to control the audio.

You can get started for less than $75! And it is fast to set up and record!

I wanted to chime in with (more) advice I give indy film makers.

I say "show me your phone". And they pull out their phone. Most folks carry an iPhone, the remainder carry an Android of some sort.

"Tell me about the camera on that phone."

The iPhone shoots 4K pixels. The Androids vary, of course, but somewhere between 2K and 4K and most people don't know anyway.

My Beta 300, which I still shot on WELL into the 2000s, shot 480p. If you are into the "2K" and "4K" scale, 480p is 0.35K. Not 1K. Not 2K. Certainly not 4K.

I produced Emmy Award winning TV that showed nationally and internationally on a $50,000 camera that produced an image size that is 90% worse than the device you keep in your pocket. Your iPhone shoots better in low light, your phone records clearer audio, your phone has more dynamic range. You are not shooting films because you don't have a camera good enough, and yet the camera that you travel with literally everwhere is 10x better than the cameras you watched every TV program on growing up.

The camera is not the problem.

The problem is that Michael wants to avoid explaining his son why he doesn't have to go through a Iphone lcd screen to change a camera setting because now can do the same with a physical button on the side of his new real videocamera when he upgrades. He did explain in the beginning that it is much harder to unteach him something so the type of camera he gets now does matter.

My personal pick out of Michaels list of camera's would be the dvx200, it has all the features you would expect from a professional camera and it has button positions that will be very similar with other brands that share the same formfactor. The dvx200 is a productionready camera and still cheaper then a fs5 which was also on Michaels list and which quickly can become twice as expensive as a dvx200 once you start buying lenses so it actually is not that expensive if you consider it has a very good lens build right in.

You do have to factor in the cost of a external mike as that doesn't come with this camera and get a very good tripod as that is equally important as your camera choice and then you are ready to start.

For your NLE choice I would also pick a more professional and fully featured NLE and not something like imovie or moviemaker because for the same reasoning as mentioned before, if you ever want to switch to a better NLE you have to start all over again to learn how to deal with the program which will be a very difficult task for someone that is autistic.

Other then that I would not get any accessories from the start but build it up as you move along, once you start shooting you will find out what you miss, you can't know that now, just see to it that you get the basics right and like suggested by others, shoot, shoot and shoot again and learn for the mistakes you will be making.

Interesting to see that there are others who spend a lot of time selecting equipment. Many cannot take the time to do this.

Reviews can help with your equipment acquisition process . . .

HD Warrior (http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk) does a good job reviewing video equipment..

One of the gadgets Philip Johnston reviewed was the DJI Osmo. Hand-held walkabout cameras are not yet there but the DJI Osmo seems to be best in class.

https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/31/dji-osmo-review/

If you have been following Rio 2016, you have probably noticed the configurations that many of the videographers are using (huge cams, massive rigs).

I am almost convinced that when you do go in to a store to buy equipment, as you are walking out the front door with your purchases, a truck is rolling up at the back door with newer, higher functionality, less expensive equipment.

The thing is it's what you do with the equipment you have that is important

it has long been my view that the order of importance is a) storyline b) audio c) lighting d) camera. This in no way diminishes the value of good video recordings but if the storyline is boring or nonsensical and if you cannot hear what is going on, the rest does not matter,

It has long been my view that the order of importance is a) storyline b) audio c) lighting d) camera.

You need to think from a autistic persons perspective what many here don't do, this means you have to take another approach and your order of importance might not apply in exactly that order.

You need to think from a autistic persons perspective what many here don't do, this means you have to take another approach and your order of importance might not apply in exactly that order.

Good point . . . .

It's my understanding the purpose of the initiative is to create a business. As with most businesses, multiple skills are needed and these rarely will be present in one individual. If one person does have all of the required skills, that person is likely to be too busy to perform all of them contemporaneously.

For me, the order needs to stay and the challenge becomes rationalizing which functions Mackenzie wants and is able to perform.