Email from a photographer for an upcoming wedding

"Can I please just let you know that all 'Personal Time' photography that we have arranged with XXX & XXX is private and filming/video is strictly not allowed. (All these details have already been discussed in detail at our final meeting).

There will be two parts of the day for these personal shots:

1. Firstly returning into Church after the guests have left for the venue
2. Secondly for around 45-60 mins at the venue (also evening shots after dinner)

The weather will dictate at what point we will take them away at the venue, as I believe that rain is forecast for Saturday, so it may have to work around the showers."

So basically no time for me then :/

Is that a joke? :) I always let the photog do their thing during the photoshoot and if I would take some time with the couple it might be a quick walking shot but I would not accept the photog telling me I cannot join, who does he think he is? In such a case I would call the client telling them I would join but that I would stay out of the way, I would also tell them what they would be missing and how much money they would be wasting by not letting me shoot and then send a mail back to the photog that the rules have changed, as discussed in detail at our final meeting.
What a douchebag.

The bride has already told me that the photographer says that 'i am not allowed to film their photoshoot' and seems ok with it - even though i explained that it will be missing out on a large part of their day - she's agreed to let me have 15 minutes with them but i'll beleive that when i see it!

To be honest I get some requests from couples asking I not film their photo shoot and focus on the guests and I can see their point. It can be frustrating filming the couples photo shoot with the whole exercise designed for great photos and not necessarily great video. I usually grab some sweeping shots of the couple and a few intimate kisses, but rarely stay for all of it. Depends on the shoot really; some are more lively and offer more for video.

In your case Peter, I'd just arrange some time with the couple myself, though see you've agreed 15 mins but are not optimistic. Speaking to some Photographers they have had bad experiences with Videographers getting in the way of the photo shoot, and whilst they can get in the way of us, it is primarily a photo shoot we're getting footage of, not vice versa. So I can see some preferring to avoid the inconvenience; still I think the message was a little hostile and not a good basis for great Photographer/Videographer cooperation on the day.

I don't think the couple photo shoot is a large part of the day and as I've not filmed it on a number of occasions, I can't say its loss has damaged the video in such cases.

I would simply say to the couple that it is their wedding not his and that they can have anything filmed that they want including the photo shoot. However if they are happy to have half their day missing from the wedding, then you have no problem with that.

Get it confirmed in writing or email though and enjoy the fact that you will have a very easy day with far less editing, all for the same money:-)

Roger

I've had the same, Pete. I was told by a photographer, "Personal photos are photographer time, as couples already feel awkward around one photographer taking pictures. I hope you understand." I just went with it, as it was on the day. I really don't believe in this though, as we're there to document the day in its entirety. From that wedding in particular, the bride did a screen grab of a group shot taken from my film via Facebook, which shows that we have our place during these moments. I would have had other moments such as this for the couple had I been present for their portraits.

At least this photographer has informed you. It may be something you wish to consult from this point onwards with couples - that you wish to be present during the couple's portraits. Once the couple knows this upon your first meeting, then I am sure they will express this to a photographer during any 'final meeting' that they may have. Otherwise, it is what it is once it's been agreed by the couple, and we can't really express our feelings without making the situation awkward.

You can be a hero by capturing what they won't see by taking photographs for an hour though.

It's just a matter of being professional and learn to work together and help eachother out where possible, most likely the photog has had bad experiences with some amateur videographer and then decides to make up his own rules making it very difficult for professional videographers to do their job as well. For me that client could stick their 15 minutes of availability where the sun doesn't shine :)

In fairness, I can sort of see their point. When our video or photos get's used by a hotel or other vendor without permission or credit we take offence. Is it not similar if a photographer creates a scene and sets up a pose, and then sits back and watches everyone praise your intimate wedding video?

It's been my realisation of this which has spurred me into taking more of a role. You really ought to build a relationship with the photographer, and suggest locations, or poses etc...

I'm not suggesting you don't by the way Peter!

In this case, where a photographer rights you off as a scene/pose/mood scavanger before the day even begins... just accept it. As long as the B&G are in agreement. Make your case for getting time yourself. And, think of the pressure that comes from directing the couple by yourself to try and understand the photographers workload.

In fairness, I can sort of see their point. When our video or photos get's used by a hotel or other vendor without permission or credit we take offence. Is it not similar if a photographer creates a scene and sets up a pose, and then sits back and watches everyone praise your intimate wedding video?

It's been my realisation of this which has spurred me into taking more of a role. You really ought to build a relationship with the photographer, and suggest locations, or poses etc...

I'm not suggesting you don't by the way Peter!

In this case, where a photographer rights you off as a scene/pose/mood scavanger before the day even begins... just accept it. As long as the B&G are in agreement. Make your case for getting time yourself. And, think of the pressure that comes from directing the couple by yourself to try and understand the photographers workload.

In fairness to your viewpoint though, I really don't think we take much credit for the photographer's part.

If anything, it's sometimes cringe-worthy what some photographers set up (and it certainly doesn't transfer well to film). Noa's way of shooting is definitely the approach that is right from my perspective - i.e. including the photographer in the film and showing off their skill set as much as documenting the family members and ensuring that all can make the film.

In most of our cases, we're doc filmmakers and so this part of the day is notoriously against our styles. If we do some nice off-cut shots that aren't on the shoulder of the photographer, then I think that's us making that happen and doesn't detract from the photographer's efforts. I really think we are a part of the day as much as the photog and if the photog takes away the couple for an hour at every wedding, we certainly shouldn't add to the amount of time a bride and groom have away from their families after that period of time (in my opinion).

Therefore, we should be a part of it.

Photographers and videographers should learn to get along better than they already do. We need our shots as much as photographers need theirs. I need to be as professional as the photographer needs to be. And our jobs are certainly just as challenging as the photographers - but in different ways - i.e. securing audio.

We don't say to the photographer, the speeches are our moment, so buzz off. The same should be said for the photographers during the portrait sessions. I really think it is common courtesy on both halves to ensure that the bride and groom don't miss any parts from the photos or videos.

and suggest locations, or poses etc...

I never do that and some might find it offensive, photogs know how to pose a shot and what location they are going to shoot, that's why I let them do their job at the photoshoot because that is the most important part of the day for them. I don't get in the way and take them into my frame as well as they are part of the weddingday. I even will use their poses to grab some quick beauty shots.

When our video or photos get's used by a hotel or other vendor without permission or credit we take offence. Is it not similar if a photographer creates a scene and sets up a pose, and then sits back and watches everyone praise your intimate wedding video?

It's not, we don't steal their photos and they don't have a copyright on poses and locations, I have all the right to shoot docu style and cover that part of the day, they actually have to thank me for not interfering meaning they have all the time they need to do their job. I also can give them free advertisement by mentioning them on my blog as photographer at that wedding.

If I would have a photog that took offense of me "stealing" their poses, then I would demand time for myself and make it difficult for them to do their job because of time constraints.

try and understand the photographers workload.

After more then 10 years doing weddings I exactly know what their workload is and what moments matter to them, you just need to work together and not against eachother. I just feel they don't have the right to demand when I am not allowed to shoot the couple.

We don't say to the photographer, the speeches are our moment, so buzz off. The same should be said for the photographers during the portrait sessions.

Exactly, and I think you should say that to a photog that tells you when you are not allowed to shoot, it would even be fair to say "speeches are videographer time, I hope you do understand :) (actually I would say that because it would seriously piss me off to be treated like that)

One of those comments often mentioned on this forum is that the video we produce are for the couple's benefit rather than ourselves. In this case, the Bride is quite happy for the photo session not to be seen in the video, so what's the problem? Is it just our ego here that's been bruised? Is the photo session so important that its lack of it leaves the video empty and lifeless?

As I said before, I am often had requests not to film the photo shoot. In such cases I give extra emphasis on the guests. Whilst the footage may not be as delightful to show off to other Videographers as some lovely shots of the couple, its what they, the couple will like watching, seeing their friends and family enjoying the day. I've got some great footage of the guests whilst the couple were away having their photos taken. Its a part of the day they sometimes don't get to see, especially if time is short.

I know one Wedding where the couple hired a couple of buses to transfer the Guests from the church to the Reception, which they never saw as they were off straight after the service to have their special photo shoot. The only way they saw this and one of the reasons why they hired me, was to see this moment on the video.

Another Wedding I got some great footage of the couple's kids playing on a piano, which would have otherwise not been seen by the couple had I gone along with them for their photo session. In such cases, their decision not to have the photo session filmed was correct.

I appreciate in this case, the request comes from the Photographer and it certainly could have been worded better. Its debatable whether they have the right to exclude us or not; from their perspective they may see the photo shoot as a private session between them and the couple rather than an integral part of the Wedding Day to be recorded like anything else. Thankfully most are happy for us to tag along and I would say from my perspective, such difficult Photographers are the exception rather than the rule.

At the end of the day, I'd just accept it. You can't win them all and there's always the next Wedding. As long as you're paid and the couple are happy, life's too short to get cheesed off over it.

Exactly, and I think you should say that to a photog that tells you when you are not allowed to shoot, it would even be fair to say "speeches are videographer time, I hope you do understand :) (actually I would say that because it would seriously piss me off to be treated like that)

I don't often disagree on this forum, but this hypothetical situation is in no way comparable. How are the speeches more our thing than the photographers? What do we put in? From what I can see its perfectly neutral, and both are equally entitled to document it.

The couple portraits involves location decisions, mood setting and pose setups (whether good or bad), and involves dialogue with the couple and making them feel comfortable.

All I'm saying is... I used to perhaps 'tag along', contribute very little and yet get great intimate shots in lovely backdrops.

It all comes down to the style of shooting I guess.

If you are documentary style, and include the groom picking his nose, or the bride swatting a fly, or the best man sneezing... then fine. But if you are trying to portray a piece of creative moody cinema, I can see why some photographers might get annoyed if you showcase great scenes that you weren't a part of creating.

The couple portraits involves location decisions, mood setting and pose setups (whether good or bad), and involves dialogue with the couple and making them feel comfortable.



Exactly, the comparable thing is when I do Marryokes and I'm choreographing something with the Guests. In such cases I would see it my entitlement to not have the Photographer there getting in shot and disrupting footage with flash if I decided it was necessary and some Photographers do ask permission from me to take photos. As it happens I'm happy for the Photographer to be there, but will ask for him/her not to use flash or get in the way of the shot if I feel such requests are needed.

In the same way the Photographer has planned this photo shoot in advance, spoken to the couple before the day about their needs and arranged a time in the day for it - usually not enough. Therefore it is a private moment between the couple and the Photographer which we are allowed to film. Of course the rest of the day is open to all.

In this case, the Bride is quite happy for the photo session not to be seen in the video, so what's the problem? Is it just our ego here that's been bruised? Is the photo session so important that its lack of it leaves the video empty and lifeless?

It's not the bride that chooses not to have the photoshoot filmed, it's the photographer most likely scaring her by saying the videographer will only create a distraction and cause them to not finish all photo's in time.
If the photog can demand that then I feel I can demand him to only shoot from the sides of the venue without a flash during the speeches because I too will scare the bride about blocked shots, distracting flashes and whatnot, that's exactly the same.

This has nothing to do with a bruised ego but a photog with a too big ego.

IHow are the speeches more our thing than the photographers?

How is the photoshoot more the photogs thing then ours, it might be called a "photoshoot" but that's also the time I might need to do a videoshoot with some posed shots with the couple. If you are professional you work together so both can do their job, you just don't tell the other person to stay away completely.

Not sure if you watched Ray Romans workshop, he also considers the speeches his domain, he sets the lights and the mood and even supplies his own mike and decides where it's going to be placed. I"m sure he never would have gotten where he is today if a photog would tell him what to do, he also need that time during a photoshoot to get his beautyshots and I"m sure he works together with the photog to achieve that.

I think if a couple would just buy what a photog tells them they most likely don't respect your work as much but if they have to pay 10K for a Ray Roman video and they want their film to look exactly like the examples they have seen you can be sure they will not accept any private time with a photog if that would mean Ray loosing some important time/shots.

Should you care? I think if you value your work and reputation, you probably will, if you are in it for the money and just want to move on to the next assignment asap, you probably would care a bit less. If caring means having a ego, then I"m guilty.

Well i seemed to have opened a can of worms there! It's particularly annoying as i usually get my intimate shots from the photoshoot. What will happen is that having posed for the tog and being kept away from family and friends they will not be as keen to re-create some of it for me.

Also with my last conversation with the bride she asked if i would position myself at the front on the bride's side as the photographer has requested they go on the groom's side! I told her no as that is my preferred side as well - we'll just have to buddy up - it's this saturday and i'm not looking forward to it

Not sure if you watched Ray Romans workshop, he also considers the speeches his domain, he sets the lights and the mood and even supplies his own mike and decides where it's going to be placed. I"m sure he never would have gotten where he is today if a photog would tell him what to do, he also need that time during a photoshoot to get his beautyshots and I"m sure he works together with the photog to achieve that.

I think if a couple would just buy what a photog tells them they most likely don't respect your work as much but if they have to pay 10K for a Ray Roman video and they want their film to look exactly like the examples they have seen you can be sure they will not accept any private time with a photog if that would mean Ray loosing some important time/shots.

Should you care? I think if you value your work and reputation, you probably will, if you are in it for the money and just want to move on to the next assignment asap, you probably would care a bit less. If caring means having a ego, then I"m guilty.

And if I was charging 10K, I would think and demand differently. I work hard and protect the integrity to my work as much as I can and no I don't just bow down to the Photographer. However I do pick my fights and some are not worth fighting. If I have the couples support, then yes. However if the couple don't care enough about video then whilst I'll try to fight my corner a little, in the end I'll take the money and write it off as just 1 of those Weddings. I still work hard on the day; you can care without letting ego get in the way.

Its a Photo Session at the end of the day; clues in the name that the Photographer does call the shots. I don't see the word video or photo in Speeches, Ceremony or any other part of the day, so I would expect more freedom.

Well i seemed to have opened a can of worms there!

It's not a can of worms, just some polite discussion and some strong opinions :)

Also with my last conversation with the bride she asked if i would position myself at the front on the bride's side as the photographer has requested they go on the groom's side! I told her no

I"m sorry, you have to listen to the photog :) And why would you care when the bride seems to be happy with that? At least when I follow some of the logic here we should just bend over forward just to please a egocentric photographer. Like Steve said, as long as you are paid it's ok, no?

Well i seemed to have opened a can of worms there! It's particularly annoying as i usually get my intimate shots from the photoshoot. What will happen is that having posed for the tog and being kept away from family and friends they will not be as keen to re-create some of it for me.

Also with my last conversation with the bride she asked if i would position myself at the front on the bride's side as the photographer has requested they go on the groom's side! I told her no as that is my preferred side as well - we'll just have to buddy up - it's this saturday and i'm not looking forward to it

I grab intimate moments more on the go rather than 1 session. So after the Ceremony, I'll ask the couple to stop and have a kiss. Then when they're in the car either before leaving or when they arrive, whichever is best, I'll ask that they to raise their glasses of bubbly to each other and have a kiss. Another thing I try is that I suggest the couple have some alone time whilst I film them from a distance using a long lens. I got that a few weeks back when the couple were sitting alone for a quiet moment. Worked miles better than the staged stuff with the Photographer as its more natural and real.

Last 3 Weddings I've been on the Bride side. It's annoying but in cramped places I'd rather have the freedom to work than fight for my shots with a Photographer.

I'd rather have the freedom to work than fight for my shots with a Photographer.

But a photog moves around, they rarely stay in one position so why does he demand a position? I always tell the photogs they can move in front of my camera's when they want to take a picture but they need to assure not to continue blocking a unmanned camera when they are not shooting, if it's a manned handheld camera I can shoot around them if necessary.

A few years back I had a photog demanding a spot at the legal part of the wedding (over here that's separate from the ceremony) and she said just after we had entered the room, "this is my spot, you can stand over there", only from "there" I had to shoot against windows where the sun came in so I said "no, I will stay here but I"ll shoot around you if you need to stand in the same position", instead of working together with me she started an argument just when all guests where coming inside the room which I found very unprofessional but I didn't move, couldn't care less.

I"m sorry, you have to listen to the photog :) And why would you care when the bride seems to be happy with that? At least when I follow some of the logic here we should just bend over forward just to please a egocentric photographer. Like Steve said, as long as you are paid it's ok, no?

Its not bending over backwards, its choosing your fights. All our work is compromise is one shape or form. Never enough time when you need it. I'll fight my corner when I feel its right and not just to satisfy my ego. I care about my work but I also care the couple have a great day without squabbling Professionals fighting for a few yards of space for the best shot.

We are being paid for our work and being paid means cooperating with others. Its annoying when the Photographer has been given greater priority but on such days where that has been made clear, I make my case and if this is refused, then I still do my best to deliver my work to the best of my ability. Which is about all that can be expected of me. What's the alternative. How far do you go to fight your corner? You think having a go at the Photographer or making silly demands yourself will make the day go any better. Do you think the couple will thank you for it. Sometimes you have to lose a few fights to win others.

But a photog moves around, they rarely stay in one position

Its true in some of my Weddings the Photographer does move about. However in others they stay put, especially if there's 2 of them. Some of our Civil and Church Ceremonies are very restrictive in where you can stand and there's little room to move. Others you are told not to move. When they do, I find I can position myself easily on the Groom's side.

When I start in the morning I immediately show the photog I care about his work, I get out of a room when I"m not shooting so I don't get into his pictures, I check for mirror reflection's that I don't see him while he is shooting because I know I will be in the picture as well and I tell them they can just tell me to go out of the way if needed. You would be surprised how much that helps to create a good cooperation. I even have carried such a flash umbrella during a photoshoot or help them out whenever I"m not shooting, those little gestures I get in return very quickly and they watch out for my camera's as well. Only once in a while I have to deal with *ssholes that have a bigger ego then the size of the room they are in, if I see their presence has a negative effect on my work I will tell them, I won't bend over forward just to keep the peace. I have not yet met a photographer that continued to make a scene, that one woman I referred to just shut up once the legal part started and because I did make sure she could stand in "her spot" no harm was done, she was however very unfriendly to me the rest of the day but who cares. At a certain point you need to take a stand, but you should also consider the other person whenever you can.

Don't get me wrong Noa, I agree with what you say on that last message. There's a difference between issues on the day and something agreed in advance. If I have no instructions prior to the day to defer to the Photographer, then its fair game. In the case of the female Photographer, arguing in front of the guests was very unprofessional and I would have reminded her of this. I've had some unfriendly Photographers myself mainly because I've stuck to my guns.

However what I'm referring to is any agreements made prior to the day and made with the couple's backing. If the couple ask me to defer to the Photographer then as far as I'm concerned my hands are tied. I'll make my case and then just do the work.

I know what you mean and I can understand Peter's frustration especially now there is a second demand about a position at a ceremony. The photog is using the bride to get what he wants without even considering the needs of a videographer, it's also clear the bride just complies to whatever the photog is asking because she values his work much more then Peter's. If a priest would ask me to stay out a certain zone I would respect it without much questioning because I"m shooting on his grounds, the photog however doesn't own any space at a wedding. I think if I was in Peter's shoes it would be a very difficult case as they always say to not bite the hand that feeds you but I would make it clear to my client, and probably exaggerate a lot, that this will have a negative impact on the quality of her film and that this will be no reason to ask for a refund, and have her sign a document that she agrees with this. Eventually there would be no other choice then to please the client but I highly doubt she would agree to that, unless she thinks so little of your work that she doesn't care, so why would I. These are the type of clients that are best forgotten quickly.

To be honest I get some requests from couples asking I not film their photo shoot and focus on the guests and I can see their point. It can be frustrating filming the couples photo shoot with the whole exercise designed for great photos and not necessarily great video. I usually grab some sweeping shots of the couple and a few intimate kisses, but rarely stay for all of it. Depends on the shoot really; some are more lively and offer more for video.

In your case Peter, I'd just arrange some time with the couple myself, though see you've agreed 15 mins but are not optimistic. Speaking to some Photographers they have had bad experiences with Videographers getting in the way of the photo shoot, and whilst they can get in the way of us, it is primarily a photo shoot we're getting footage of, not vice versa. So I can see some preferring to avoid the inconvenience; still I think the message was a little hostile and not a good basis for great Photographer/Videographer cooperation on the day.

I don't think the couple photo shoot is a large part of the day and as I've not filmed it on a number of occasions, I can't say its loss has damaged the video in such cases.
I'm in agreement with Steve.

One of my weddings last year I covered the guests party while I sent my 2nd shooter to do the photoshoot with a steady cam. When I reviewed the footage I could see certain points where he was getting in the way swooping into a couple of feet in front of the B&G. Part of doing a wedding is knowing where to pick your points and when to lay back once you get your shots. In my final edit I have 20 seconds tops of the photoshoot.

The photoshoot is nice to have as b roll but you should do ok without it.

I can't say why they don't want you there. Could be that they make a montage like movie or have had bad experiences with videographers getting in the way.

When I reviewed the footage I could see certain points where he was getting in the way swooping into a couple of feet in front of the B&G

He could only get in the way if he doesn't discuss his shots with the photographers which is often a reason why photogs hate videographers. Whether you find a photoshoot important or not, it's up to each individual videographer to decide what matters because everyone has a different style, for some the photoshoot might be a important part of getting some eye candy shots or maybe steadycam shots that matter for the trailer. It's not up to the photog to decide if you will be able to get these shots and as long as you are professional about it and talk to eachother there is absolutely no reason why both the photog and videographer cannot work together during a shoot.

I think Steve is in the right mindset... pick your battles, let the bride know if you foresee an issue, and if she is OK with it, let it go. If there is something specific where you'll want to "direct" without interruption, then make arrangements for it in advance.



Peter could probably "shoot back" a snarky email that he'll get some great footage of the guests that the couple will enjoy, since they are off with the 'tog and doing yet another boring predictable photo shoot you've seen many times.... thank the guy for freeing you up to get some great easy to shoot "friends and family" footage!

Unfortunately the tone of the email is rather snooty, I've run into a few 'tog's that are "that way". thinking that somehow they invented posing, framing and "glamour shots", and don't want any encroachment on their creativity.... sometimes they actually are that good, but more often it's just another pedestrian photo shoot....


Perhaps part of this is that the photographer feels that they can get more "intimate" shots if it's JUST the B&G (not the entire bridal party). Sometimes it IS easier to have a calm, quiet photo shoot than a 3 ring circus.... depends some on the personalities and rapport... as long as that time is short, I can see where it could be more comfortable for the B&G, and easier on the 'tog... it certainly could have been put more tactfully, if that was the case...

I really don't see the big deal here. It's the bride's wedding and she has decided she doesn't want the video guy around during the photoshoot so go relax and chill out. I can see the photogs point too and we do both photos and video and there is nothing more annoying than doing a video shoot while the photog is getting in your way and vice versa !! On the few occasions where someone else is doing the photos, I take the couple only away for a slomo shoot that takes 10 minutes and then hand them back to the photog and head off to the reception and do guest comments on camera or even relax and do nothing !!! Just tell the photog you need the couple for 10 minutes to do a personal shoot and then they are all his to work with. We have done this for many years and the photogs appreciate it when we have one around.

Interesting points all around.

For me, the bride and groom's wishes would be the most important. I have had a few that have asked me to go get candid shots, rather than get footage of the photoshoot. I do as they wish. I'll film a brick wall for 40 minutes if that's what they want. It is their video after all.

That said, the photo session does often present some great footage. Depends alot on the bridal party. Those who are very animated and lively will get you some excellent stuff. Not so much during the posing, but all the candid laughter and carrying on between pictures, or with people on the sidelines waiting.

Others are much more reserved and the footage is more dull as a result.

I've never had an issue with a photog at this time, but I stay out of the way and don't interrupt their job. If the bridal crowd as a good one, it's easy enough to get great stuff without being intrusive.

I've been lucky to not have to deal with any real jerky photogs yet. The worst is some will block cameras from time to time, but it usually seems like an honest mistake and once I ask them to move, they do. We both know we have a job to do, and try to compromise as much as possible.

I think you missed the point, it's not the bride that doesn't want Peter to be there, it's the photographer and he managed to convince the bride, it's also not the brides wish to have Peter standing at the "wrong" side during the ceremony, it's the photographer who doesn't want him at that spot and yet again he is using the bride to get what he wants. Maybe he"ll get back to the bride telling he doesn't want you to use a videolight in the venue (and lets assume your camera needs that extra light) as it will ruin his photo's, what do you think the bride will tell Peter? How far would you let this go on?

@ Peter, am I right in assuming the photographer is at least twice as expensive as you are?

To be clear this is just the couple's photo shoot & not the group shots. I know some videographers don't film the group shots but I always found I got nice footage not if the posed groups per se but more of the guests larking about in between the shots. In this case the photographer is either incompetent or full of himself. Why does he need an hour alone with the couple? 15-20 minutes is ample. Don't the couple realise how much of their day they will be missing? If they went for a portrait session in a studio it wouldn't take an hour. Having said all that if the couple are happy with the photographer being such an arse then just let them get on with it & film guests or the venue or just put your feet up for an hour.

In this case it is the Photographer making the demands and using the Bride to get his own way. Regretfully as she values Photography over Video, your hands are tied and whilst you can argue your case and hope to change her mind, in the end if she sides with the Photographer, you have to go along with it. That doesn't mean you can't make the best of it. I've frequently shot from the Bride's side and still got good coverage and missing just the couple's photo shoot is no big deal. There's more to the Wedding Day than that. In fact some couple's I have filmed didn't even have personal photos, it just wasn't for them. I filmed one in May where it was just 2 family members handling the photos and there were no formal photos at all.

If the Photographer really starting to add to the list such as banning lights, restricting cameras and movement, I think you would have a stronger case and even suggest the couple would be better off without having their Wedding filmed given the number of restrictions. Otherwise you'd be well in your right to make restrictions of your own and I think by then the Bride will have just got fed up with all the demands.

@ Peter, am I right in assuming the photographer is at least twice as expensive as you are?

I would have expected that Noa but no - they do a two-tog full day for just £100 more than me. No album but interestingly they create an online video of the stills (no doubt using something like ProShow)

TBH I aren't stressing about it, I've shot several weddings without filming around the photoshoot for several reasons and it's been no big deal. My real worry is the amount of time it seems they may remove the couple from the wedding party - you can't have a wedding film without a bride and groom! I strongly suspect I won't get my 15 minutes and that will be a pain.

At worst If I feel my quality has been compromised by the photographer's demands I won't do a trailer. When I meet with a couple I always say that I will do them a trailer if time allows. I don't automatically include one in my packages as let's face it, we've all done weddings we'd rather not publicise! If that happens and she asks why, then I'll tell her that the restrictions imposed by the photographer, and agreed by her, resulted in a wedding film that is not up to my usual standard.

I'll let you know how I get on. I may run into trouble with my lights for the first dance but they'll be staying on regardless - by that time of the day i take sh**t from no one!

Ah man, I hate the whole Photo vs Video guy. I think the email you got was a little harsh and overly firm in tone. Who is he to tell you what to do? You should not listen to him. The only people you should listen to is the couple - so I'd email them mentioning you've had an email from the photographer.

Weddings are SO MUCH easier when the two of you get along so I have no idea why this guy is trying to make things unnecessarily awkward before you've even met each other.

For me personally, they're welcome to have their 'private photo shoot'. That's fine. It's their video. But I prefer a 'fly on the wall' approach to shooting. I don't care if the photog is in my shot (provided they're not constantly blocking a manned camera) and for the photo sesh I have a zoom and hang back and let them do their thing. It looks weird to film posing people so I always try get the photog in shot. I don't interact with the B&G at all. I may ask for a cheeky walking shot when it's not a 'photo sesh'. I'd politely point out to them that they'll barely notice I'm there. If the photog has some weird thing about being filmed then that's fine I guess. That's not my issue it's theirs and I'd respect that and it's down to the B&G to convince them if they wish to.

It will be interesting to see what the reception venue say about the photog taking an hour for his pics. Do they know? If not, the chef will not be too well pleased if he has a time to serve the food and it all goes cold. Re the lights at first dance, we had a photog who had been a real pain, so at the first dance we made sure that one of the two cameras, both with lights, was directly opposite him when he tried to take pics. I dont do weddings anymore, too old! due to this sort of hassle. If the bride and groom have been brainwashed by the tog, if you can't talk them round, so bit, get some cutaways of the guests and have a rest.
I could also never understand why some togs took literally 1,000s of pics. They might as well have used a video cam.
I'll be interested to hear how you get on ☺☺

I'd also be interested in how you get on...

As for what has been said here since yesterday, I would agree with Nathan and email the client explaining why the demands of the photog may negatively affect their video.

Ultimately, it doesn't seem like the photo / video relationship is improving. It's a great shame considering that you can be a big help to them as Noa states. Last weekend, I shot my seventh wedding and was told that I was great to work with, as the photographers never knew where I was (usually behind them and to the side). I like those compliments and think that we are capable of making the same impression.

There's also a great difference in the importance of these activities depending on your deliverables. For instance, my package is all about the highlight, and so this would be a big deal for me. Whereas if you're not delivering trailers and are straight documentary style, then it may not have as big of an impact on your work.

Let us know how you get on Pete! All the best for this Saturday!

Craig in 8 years this is only the second time it's happened - I can count the number of awkward togs on one hand. I've made a few good friends from photographers and get lots of recommendations - what I don't like in this case is the implication that my work is not as important than theirs.

I aren't going to stress the bride as it's so close and she's already said she accepts the situation (her email to me said 'The photographer says you are not allowed etc etc') so that's that.

If I don't get my 15 minutes for a few beauty shots then maybe they won't get a trailer (which I never promise anyway)

Sounds reasonable, Peter.

If I was in your situation I'd make the most of the time they are away and get tons of shots of everyone else. Father of bride, mother, grandparents etc. I find the videos start to get a bit boring when it's all the couple and no one else. They also want to see the bits they missed which can be just as valuable.

I often get compliments from photographers. Maybe because of my unobtrusive style or that I have photographed weddings too so I understand and respect both roles. But I get the idea thats the exception to the rule. I usually start off by having to explain to the officiant I'm not that type of person. I also have a conversation with the photographer how we can work together and stay out of each other's way.

Craig in 8 years this is only the second time it's happened - I can count the number of awkward togs on one hand. I've made a few good friends from photographers and get lots of recommendations - what I don't like in this case is the implication that my work is not as important than theirs.

I aren't going to stress the bride as it's so close and she's already said she accepts the situation (her email to me said 'The photographer says you are not allowed etc etc') so that's that.

If I don't get my 15 minutes for a few beauty shots then maybe they won't get a trailer (which I never promise anyway)

That's great to hear, Pete. I think you would be able to do deliver a great trailer either way! You're an inventive videographer and great at solving problems, so I'm sure you'll get worthy footage elsewhere whilst they are away! :) All the best!

I agree to a large extent with the view that if the Bride doesn't want the video on the photo shoot then that is her choice, but I also think that she has been cleverly led by the photographer.

I have never had any particular problem with photographers, as I make it clear to them from the start that I will always defer to their choice of position except ceremony and speeches. I always cover the photo shoot as it is part of the couple's day, but only to show what they are doing and never interfering with what the photographer does as he needs to work closely with the couple. I do though frequently wonder why photographers seem to click away endlessly through the speeches when the couple are highly unlikely to want speech photos in their album or hanging on the wall.

If you don't need the photo shoot, then it doesn't matter at all, but if there was no photographer at the wedding, most videographers would probably still want some shots with just the B&G on their own, walking, talking and a little more artistic than the rest of the day. That is probably the only time of the day when it is possible to get the couple away from their guests and is not a time that should be just for the photographer. TIme doesn't normally allow for both photographer and videographer to take separate shoots and the photographer is unlikely to be prepared to miss out on available time to give it up for the video. It seems perfectly reasonable for the videographer to therefore capture some of the time that the photographer is using and a little bit of friendly negotiation is all that's needed.

I also agree that sometimes the video is undervalued by the couple until it is actually delivered and by then it is too late to do anything about it. In my experience, the video becomes more important to the couple with the passing years, while the photo album gathers dust. Photographers generally just do not understand video or see the point of it, they just think you point a camera and press a button with little skill involved, unlike their own specialized craft as they see it.

Roger

"*I do though frequently wonder why photographers seem to click away endlessly through the speeches when the couple are highly unlikely to want speech photos in their album or hanging on the wall."

I can answer this as a photographer. Clients feel they are getting their money worth based on the number of photos you take and that you are visibly working during all parts of the wedding even if you know the formals and ceremony are the only ones that really matter. Especially if there's no video it's the photographer's job to chronicle the entire day start to finish.

I don't do photo shoots - it's not in any of my packages. I do offer it as an option but I explain to the bride that we are better off filming the final preparations of the room, guests having pre dinner drinks etc. - all the things that are happening while they are off having their photos taken - and 99% of the time they are fine with that.

We seem to have this preoccupation that we need to cover everything the photog does - why?

A wedding is 2 people making a commitment if front of friends and family and then celebrating that commitment. that's what we are there to cover. If there was no photographer would they even have a photo shoot?

the photoshoot has traditionally been the domain of the photog - when I got married it was in a studio - locations shoots weren't even mentioned. Now that the location photo shoot is such a big part of the day, the photog has allowed sufficient time to get the shots he needs - he's not thinking about us. While most of us will be professional and work together - the ones that don't will stand out in his mind and create problems for all of us

Photogs always amuse me when they are taking more pics than they will ever even edit! I have had 2 of them standing either side of my tripod during speeches shooting as fast as the flash could handle it ...During the fairly short speech each must have exposed at least 200 frames. Yep, seems like the more you give the bride the better you are rated. 5000 shots at the reception means you are a killer photographer!

I can understand overshooting a lot of the time. There's been times where I know I have plenty for the edit, but I don't want to appear like I'm slacking off, so I'll just shoot more stuff. Usually if there's 3 hours of dancing left before my scheduled end time. Or if the reception is really slow to get started and I have enough decor + guest shots.

If the bride is ok with it, I agree with those that say let it go!

It's the bride's video, not the videographer nor the photographer's.

I don't even see the issue here. Shoot what you can and move on to the next wedding.