Panasonic Announces New UX Series of 4K High-Powered Handheld Camcorders, Delivering VariCam LT 4K Cinema Camcorder (http://shop.panasonic.com/about-us-latest-news-press-releases/04182016-naboverview.html?tab=press&start=0)

Interesting. I like the 1" sensor. I guess it's the competition to Sony's Z150.

Except that the AG-UX180 has an 20x optical zoom and UHD 60p, two things that the Sony doesn't have.

Except that the AG-UX180 has an 20x optical zoom and UHD 60p, two things that the Sony doesn't have.

Good point!

It is what I was hoping Sony would bring out as an upgrade to my FDR-AX1. Mayb e even better it lives up to the initial information. I expect it will have the capabilities of the HCX1000 and DVX200 so things like touch focus that the PXW-Z150 also lacks. DVX200 for the people who want the shallow depth of focus and 1" for those like me that shoot events where we want everything in focus !!!

Ron Evans

Maybe I'm just nostalgic, but is it at all possible to get a 2/3" camera in a body this size? Even single chip?

The Sony EX1's 1/2" chips were a really nice blend of low noise, while still being relatively cheap & the 14x zoom was great. 2/3" would still give more (or less?) DOF than 1/3" or 1/2" cameras, but it's a little easier to put on a long zoom lens.

Still, I'm OK w/ these 1" chips since the 180 has a much longer zoom than the DVX200, and could possibly be a really nice event camera. (Keeping fingers crossed for good user feedback when they hit the streets.)

Maybe I'm just nostalgic, but is it at all possible to get a 2/3" camera in a body this size? Even single chip?



Not in that size, but there is a new 2/3" 4K camera: It appears to be a single chip.

Sony PXW-Z450 Is First 4K XDCAM Shoulder Camcorder With 2/3-type image sensor at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/sony-pxw-z450-is-first-4k-xdcam-shoulder-camcorder-with-23-type-image-sensor.html)

I was expecting a lot from the Z150, but now I'm kinda miffed Panny is offering the same thing for cheaper and has a 4K 60p option. I guess the chips aren't there yet for XAVC-L 4K 10bit 4:2:2. Maybe that's what Sony is waiting for from the ASIC manufacturers.

But as of now, Sony's getting the cheapest, highest volume ASIC encoder chips which currently are still limited to 4K 30p. Panasonic seems to have the 4K 60p budget market in their sights. The UX180 is perfect, aside from 8bit 4:2:0 Long-GOP.

If the UX180 has no arbitrary HDMI 2.0 8bit 4:2:2 limit, I might go for a Shogun Inferno if the DNxHR mode also supports 4K 60p (Before Convergent Design, bear in mind)

I expect it is purely marketing. They do have the processors because they are in my FDR-AX1. I suspect they do not want to have a camera recording to SDXC cards because that would hit the reason for XQD for high data rates. The internals of the FS5 clearly support high frame rates since they have just announced a RAW option for UHD 60P. So the only difference is encoding/recording for 8bit 4:2:0 ( just like the Z100 ) but to SDXC cards which are quite fast enough for 150Mbps. Yes you may be correct in that the processor that Panasonic uses encodes to h264 and not XAVC ( i, S or L ) however Sony does have processors to do this in the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 in both mov and mxf. These are also in the same price range as the DVX200 and the upcoming AG-UX range. Marketing not engineering I am sure. When the UX range comes out this fall Sony will not have a competing product to the AG-UX180 it will be a better and lower cost product than the PXW-Z100 so I expect both the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 will be discontinued. They could of course upgrade the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 with a new lens and 1`sensor as all the rest of the camera will work fine !!! Will they do that ?

Ron Evans

If they did a proper UX180 competitor with 10bit 4:2:2 for both XAVC-I 4K and XAVC-L 4K, that would be the new EX1 of the 4K generation.

Your AX1 and Z100 use FPGAs rather than ASICs. Sony can source ASICs for cheaper and in much higher volume than expensive FPGAs, so that's what's holding back low power 4K 60p. Remember that Panasonic has been known to use multiple encoder chips to achieve higher pixel counts. DVCPRO HD was just 4 DV codecs and encoder chips.

As for the cards, Sony isn't as lenient about advertised SD card speeds... which UHS-II could go a long way in helping solve this problem.

The point I was making Jack is that the core of the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 are already there and in the same price range as the Panasonics. If they left most things the same and just upgraded the lens and sensor they would have some competition. Yes I agree they could make it lower cost and likely use less power with newer electronics. So what ? They are setting themselves up to loose this market segment to Panasonic.

Ron Evans

Could be good. Fingers crossed.

The point I was making Jack is that the core of the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 are already there and in the same price range as the Panasonics. If they left most things the same and just upgraded the lens and sensor they would have some competition. Yes I agree they could make it lower cost and likely use less power with newer electronics. So what ? They are setting themselves up to loose this market segment to Panasonic.

Ron Evans

Actually, they are purposely using lower cost and less power to produce in higher volumes, at the absolutely unjustifiable cost of a 30p limit in 4K. Most companies in Japan are putting less money into R&D and it's just progressively getting worse. I totally agree they're setting themselves up to lose. If they did take the FPGA guts of a Z100 and put it with a 1'' sensor capable of 60p, that would be your camera right there (and a Fujinon manual lens would make the deal even sweeter)

Sony needs to realize to duplicate the success of the Z1U and the EX1, they need to not just rely on the FS7 to be the ONLY decent 4K 60p camera.

Not in that size, but there is a new 2/3" 4K camera: It appears to be a single chip.

Yeah, but the price tag is as big as the camera. Worth it for sure, but I'm still wanting the 2/3" 3k for $3k that Red promised in 2009.

The most reasonable thing that I could see happening is BMD taking their $300 B4 lens mount adapter for the Ursa Mini & revision it for their Micro camera at that same cheap price. Yeah there are other adapters that correct for the 3 chip to single chip, but they're all $1k+.

Yeah, but the price tag is as big as the camera. Worth it for sure, but I'm still wanting the 2/3" 3k for $3k that Red promised in 2009.

The most reasonable thing that I could see happening is BMD taking their $300 B4 lens mount adapter for the Ursa Mini & revision it for their Micro camera at that same cheap price. Yeah there are other adapters that correct for the 3 chip to single chip, but they're all $1k+.

I remember the original Scarlet. I wish RED had gone through with it. I would have gotten one. 2/3" sensor would have been fine with me, especially for only $3,000. I heard they couldn't get the fixed zoom lens to work.

Actually, the Canon XC10 doesn't seem to be that far off from the Scarlet concept.

Panasonic gives more info about price and release date of AG-UX180 & AG-UX90.

Panasonic UX Series of 4K Camcorders at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/panasonic-ux-series-of-4k-camcorders.html)

New 4K Handheld Camcorder AG-UX180 - YouTube

http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales_o/broch_pdf/ag-ux180.pdf
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales_o/broch_pdf/ag-ux90p.pdf

If I understand good, just unbelievable. OK you can insert a 128GB card but you can use only 96GB. This means that you lose 32GB...nice... correct me if I am wrong.

Two SD card slots are provided. This enables unlimited* relay recording by simply changing SD cards, and also allows simultaneous recording and background recording for ensuring high recording reliability.

* The maximum amount of data that can be recorded over multiple SD cards is 96 GB. Recording will not stop even when the data size exceeds 96 GB

EDIT : Did they mean each file size not overall amount that recorded into card?

Don't understand the " recording will not stop." comment either. I want to shoot UHD 60P for over 2 hours at 150Mbps that will blow past 96G . Must find out more about that. I would have thought it just started a new clip/file on each card like my FDR-AX1. There certainly isn't a file size limit for exFat of any real concern. Just checked my Video Assist recording Prores 4:2:2 from my NX5U started a new file at 93G when I recorded continuous for 2hours 25 mins. Card was a 256 U3 card . Maybe there is a metadata file limit that means it has to start a new file. I guess we will find out.

Ron Evans

In this page http://news.panasonic.co.uk/pressreleases/panasonic-introduces-professional-4k-60p-slash-50p-camcorder-with-extremely-wide-24mm-20x-optical-zoom-lens-1541570 they write this

Maximum file size that can be recorded over multiple SD cards is 96 GB. Recording will not stop even when the data size exceeds 96 GB

Maybe it's a phrase/typography error. Maybe they mean after 96GB the file splitted. But this is LARGE file size. Sony Z150 max file size is 8GB, after that it splits and this is good for safety reason.

Did you notice the actual Panasonic US website page for the new HC-X1
4K Ultra HD Professional Camcorder - HC-X1 - Panasonic US (http://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/camcorders/HC-X1.html)

All Panasonic new series (HC-X1, AG-UX180 & AG-UX90) have the same body and similar features.

My last quote that it says file size and not data amount was for HC-X1 but it's the same for all new series.

Douglas what you mean?

In these page they write this

?Panasonic introduces professional 4K 60p/50p camcorder with... - Panasonic UK News (http://news.panasonic.co.uk/pressreleases/panasonic-introduces-professional-4k-60p-slash-50p-camcorder-with-extremely-wide-24mm-20x-optical-zoom-lens-1541570)



Maybe it's a phrase/typography error. Maybe they mean after 96GB the file splitted. But this is LARGE file size. Sony Z150 max file size is 8GB, after that it splits and this is good for safety reason.

Where did you see Z150 max file size ? My FDR-AX1, FDR-AX100 and AX53 use XAVC-S like the Z150 and have not checked the max but the AX1 will fill XQD 64G cards one after the other with no problems and the AX100 ( the closest to the Z150 ) will certainly go way past 50G the most I have recorded in one go so far all one file. I have 128G cards for the AX100 and AX53 will have to see if they also stop at about 93 like the Video Assist.

Ron Evans

Where did you see Z150 max file size ? My FDR-AX1, FDR-AX100 and AX53 use XAVC-S like the Z150 and have not checked the max but the AX1 will fill XQD 64G cards one after the other with no problems and the AX100 ( the closest to the Z150 ) will certainly go way past 50G the most I have recorded in one go so far all one file. I have 128G cards for the AX100 and AX53 will have to see if they also stop at about 93 like the Video Assist.

Ron Evans

I remember that someone mentioned in a post. It says that Z150 splits files every 8GB (for example my old Canon XF100 split's files every 2GB).

These cameras are VERY interesting. Especially the 180.

I wonder.....I strongly suspect Panny is buying Sony's 1inch-type sensors for this but are they also buying Sony's "full pixel" readout and scaling engine too?

I wonder how much of this motherboard and processing was purchased from Sony too. Hmmm....so, I'm really curious as to how good the overall image quality and detail is and how it will compare to the Sony Z150.

Wow.....I actually might buy my very first Panasonic camcorder. I have to think that Sony will have a Z150 "big brother" planned very shortly to answer this Panny 180 though.

CT

BIG THING TO NOTE:

No simultaneous record and 4K output. HDMI and SDI cannot be output simultaneously. (Back to the days of the EX1R in that regard) No 10bit HDMI out on this model neither, and the 4K 60p output over HDMI like the DVX200 is crippled to 8bit 4:2:0.

Also, no V-log. only 8 selectable standard gammas.

It seems none of the recent cameras of note have simultaneous 4K internal record and output.

Not enough processing power onboard to get everything. One thing at a time. For the price it is stillvery good so far as I can tell.

Ron Evans

No simultaneous record and 4K output.

In brochure it says only that "HDMI and SDI signals cannot be output simultaneously", it doesn't say anything about 4K recording and output. But if you mean this "Images output during UHD 60p and UHD 50p recording are FHD." yes it can't give 4K output while recording 4K, it gives only FullHD. But for the cases that you need it this isn't the only limitation (you need better camera ;) )

If it does the same thing as Z150 (LCD switched off while 4K & Output) I will say on Z150 for my choice that have the same limitation.

P.S. By the way I like a lot the "TC PRESET" on AG180, I work a lot with multi-cam and you don't need an external Time Code Generator.

In brochure it says only that "HDMI and SDI signals cannot be output simultaneously", it doesn't say anything about 4K recording and output.

Directly under that in the same part of the brochure:

Images output during UHD 60p and UHD 50p recording are FHD.

4K DCI 24p might be safe in that regard, but who knows... Might just be a carbon copy of the limitations of the DVX200, but even more so without the 10bit mode.

Yes I was understand that later and I correct my above post while you posting, hehe....

Forget shooting for Rec. 2020 and HDR with this. The only Prosumer camera on the market with that compliance (bear in mind, in 60p) is the Sony FS7 in 4K XAVC-I mode. Even then, it's only 4K output over HDMI must be 8bit 4:2:0 in 60p as well. Want lower compression than XAVC-I? You have to go all the way up to the F5 and it's 4x 3G-SDI outputs and with the 4K software option.

(because editing time ran out on the previous post)

Considering Sony's lack of showing sub $6000 cameras at IBC, I may be seriously considering a UX180 if Sony doesn't impress (which they won't) before NAB.

Wait.....what happened to the Panasonic HC-X1? This camera has fallen of the face of the Earth?

It seems to be the exact same camera as the AG-UX180 but with the SDI removed. The Panasonic HC-X1 is still on B&H's website at $3,199. This seems to compete perfectly with Sony's Z150.

Panasonic is no longer promoting it? Instead, they are now pushing the UX90 &180?

Strange. Does anybody see the HC-X1 at IBC at all?

CT

Panasonic HC-X1 is a consumer camera. Panasonic promotes it on IFA only.

The HC-X1 is almost exactly the same as the UX180 with the SDI and timecode connections missing. About $300 price difference. The UX90 is a much lower spec model. As a Sony user I think the AG-UX180 is more camera than the Z150. UHD 50/60P and 20x zoom for example. We will have to wait for more information and tests though. It would need some extras ( like the wireless USB plug ) . With the UX90 one may question why one would buy the NX100 and still be something to look at even if considering the Z150. I think Sony will have to do something similar ?

Ron Evans.

What about the compatible accessories?

Well. Here they are:

AJ-WM50P Dual Band AC USB Wi Fi Module that allows for wireless network connectivity in Panasonic professional IP enabled cameras (AVC-Ultra, Varicam, DVX200, etc.).

AG-VBR118G Replacement battery for DVX200, PX270, 11800mAh

AG-BRD50P Dual battery charger for AG-BRD50P, AG-VBR118G, AG-VBR59P, AG-VBR89G

AG-VBR59P Replacement battery for AC30, DVX200, PX270 (7.28V / 5900 mAh)

AG-VBR89G Replacement battery for AC30, DVX200, PX270 (7.28V / 8850mAh)

VWVBD58PPK Replacement battery for AJ-PX270, AG-AC30 and other hand-helds (7.2V / 5800mAh)

AGB23P Single Battery Charger

AGMC200G Unidirectional Microphone

On 2:45 on this video Panasonic AG-UX180 - IBC 2016 - YouTube I see that the LCD monitor remains too reflective. It's like DVX200 monitor that it was too reflective also.

First Video of the UX90

UX90 - YouTube

Picture is nice and with very good colors.

About 96GB that it says in brochure,

Two SD card slots are provided. This enables unlimited* relay recording by simply changing SD cards, and also allows simultaneous recording and background recording for ensuring high recording reliability.

* The maximum amount of data that can be recorded over multiple SD cards is 96 GB. Recording will not stop even when the data size exceeds 96 GB

I just got the operating manual of UX90 in my hands. About this I have good news (as expected).

In manual they say "When the file size of a recorded scene exceeds one of the following sizes or the recording time exceeds one of the following lengths time, the scene will be divided automatically. (Recording continues.)"

And on the table below it says

AVCHD scene : Approximately 4 GB
MOV/MP4 scene (when using an SDHC Memory Card) : Approximately 4GB or 30 minutes
MOV/MP4 scene (when using an SDXC Memory Card) : Approximately 96GB or 3 hours

So everything is good, and I think that is the same for UX180.

Does the manual say anything about the slow motion? Is it 120fps continous (no buffering)?

Thanks!!

Unfotunately UX90 as I read doesn't support that. They say about slow motion but only using Variable Frame Rate (VFR) Mode. As I know from the specs UX180 supports 120fps

In Variable Frame Rate Mode, you can record quick or slow motion picture by changing the frame
rate before recording.

Slow motion (overcrank recording)

Used in scenes such as climaxes, a slow motion effect creates a dramatic impression. Set a frame
rate that provides more frames than the frame rate in [REC FORMAT] does.
Example: If you set [FHD 1080/25.00p 50M] to 50 fps and record a motion picture, a slow motion
effect of 1/2 can be gained.

Quick motion (undercrank recording)

A fast motion effect is used in scenes showing the flow of clouds, people standing in the middle of
crowds, etc. Set a frame rate that provides less frames than the frame rate in [REC FORMAT] does.
Example: If you set [FHD 1080/25.00p 50M] to 12 fps and record a motion picture, a quick motion
effect of 2k can be gained.

I will send you a message with UX90 Operating Instuctions

Here's a review of the UX180 from Bob Kovacs:

Panasonic AG-UX180 4K Camcorder Review (in 4K) - YouTube

This Panny UX180 appears just stunning. I'll be upgrading my Sony Z5 in the next few months, and get a 4k camera. My choice seems to be a battle between the Sony Z150 and the Panny UX180.

I wonder how the low light performance stacks between these two.

I personally am leaning towards the UX180. It would be a surprise if it turns out they were using a Sony sensor and running it at 4K 60p.

I've heard horror stories of the Z150 failing randomly.

The smaller megapixel count (9.5mp on the UX180) should mean better lowlight, shouldn't it?

Be interesting to see a comparison against the Panasonic FZ2000/2500 with similar specs but 20mp sensor.

Wow. Didn't notice the effective pixel count difference between the UX90 and the HC-X1/UX180...

Willing to bet the UX90 has more rolling shutter as a result.

Definitely a different sensor to the HC-X1 and UX180. It is more a competitor for the HXRNX100 with a 4K add-on. But since the 4K piece is so restricted I think the NX100 at its price may be better as a HD only camcorder !! The UX90 is $400 more than the NX100 at B&H.

Since the UX180's has only 3G SDI I think the HC-X1 may be the better deal.

Ron Evans

If they leave out Histograms and exposure measuring tools in the HC-X1, that might make it worth it just to get the UX180. Don't discount them locking out certain features to the pro model. At a $300USD price difference, I think the UX180 is worth it in the long run.

I too would like to see all the differences but the specs from the pdf's on the Panasonic sites show the only difference to be the connectors for SDI and Timecode clearly useful for people doing multicam in HD only. In this regard the competitor is the new Sony NX5R with a complete set of features for multicam . B&H price difference is now only $200 between HC-X1 and the UX180.

Ron Evans

One of the many videos I did at NAB New York. I went to New York all the way from Boston by bus. Once I'm their, I had to walk a lot and take a train and so I was a bit tired and decided to use 1 channel of my AC90 built in mic instead of the shutgun mic. Oops! I did that for the first 2 interviews. Ah well. I still used the shutgun for the rest of the inteviews. Besides, this was the first time using a shutgun mic on the AC90. Also, please disregard the shutgun mic flapping at the top. I noticed it during the shoot and decided to keep the clip rather than do it over again. It was sticking out a little bit too much for that first video.

Anyway, I'm actually going to do a review on the UX90. I received it yesterday. I'll be comparing it to my AC90, doing some other kind of testings and do some event videos. I might also get to test the UX180 when it comes out. I have the UX90 until the 28th.

NAB Show - New York - 2016 Panasonic UX180 and AC30 - YouTube

First video finally online. Just did it tonight. It compares the low light abilities of the AC90 and the UX90. 90 of the past compared to the 90 of the present. Both camcorders shot at 1080p60. I'll be posting future videos in 4K.

Could have posted videos earlier but I needed to do some editing on a big video gig I recently did the day before I received the camera. I didn't even open the box on the first day because of that. I didn't want to get distracted.

Panasonic UX90 vs AC90. Battle of the 90ies. Low light test - YouTube