For those that they need to read more info about UX90 features here are the operating instructions http://docdro.id/eZBxNLP

P.S. If someone find the UX180 operating instructions please inform us/me

Oops. my post got shown twice.

Video I did at a Lion Dance competition. The camera was fully automatic and shooting 4K30p. The gain was probably from 10 to 13db. Shutter was at 60.

Kids lion dance performance in Boston. 4K video - Panasonic UX90 - YouTube

I'm going to do a couple of highlight videos that shows a little bit of each competing teams. 1 for the school and 1 for the finals that were shot in a Chinese restaurant.

Video I took of the Faneuil Hall Marketplace tree lighting event in Boston Massachusetts.
It was edited in Premiere Pro CC 2017 and exported to 70Mbps before uploading to YouTube.
Faneuil Hall Tree Lighting Spectacular in 4K - Panasonic UX90 - YouTube


It's just a bunch of random shots. Later in the video I decided to walk through the gate to get to the front. It was starting to get crowded and I wanted to get closer shots rather than be too far. The only major editing I did was take away the audio from one clip for copyright reasons. I decided to leave every single clip in regardless if they look bad or not. I like posting videos on YouTube but I also have other things to do with my time so I can't spend a lot of time editing every video.

The UX90 was in fully automatic mode. Basically auto white balance, auto-focusing, auto gain, etc. I'd say the cameras was probably using around 10 to 13 db of gain and the shutter stayed at 60.

Video is in 4K 30p.
New England Lion Dance Competition 2016 - Day 1 - Panasonic UX90 - 4K 30p. - YouTube

Seriously looking at the UX180 vs the Z150....one of the remaining sticking points is a continuous (non-buffered) 120fps in FHD mode....Still can't seem to know if it does this or not.
Anyone know?

Thanks!

I am sure Barry will give the experienced answer but in the user manual it states that slow motion recording at 120fps in NTSC at a based frame rate of 23.98P and will record for maximum of 2 hours for a single clip. Recording time is stated as being depending on the frame rate selected but the example is for 23.98 when max time is reached it will momentarily stop then start again. At least that is what the user manual says on page 107. Also mentioned in this interview for the HC-X1 , same thing without the 3G SDI and timecode connectors Newsshooter interview: Panasonic HC-X1 4K 1-inch sensor camcorder with 20x zoom on Vimeo

Thank you Ron...it seems that it does!
Decisions! Decisions! z150 or the ux180...leaning on the ux180 but need to see how it preforms in low-light.

The main difference between the Z150 and UX180 ( or HC-X1) for me are Panasonics have 20x zoom that goes wide to 25.4mm. They shoot UHD 60P and have a touch screen and remote app that has more controls than the Sony.
Sony has the advantage of 10bit 4:2:2 in HD compared to 8bit 4:2:2 for the Panasonics and then only for external recording as internal is 8 bit 4:2:0. Sony also has built in WiFi and Panasonics need a USB dongle.

For me the wide angle, touch controls like focus and UHD 60P favor the UX180 ( or HC-X1 if you do not need SDi or timecode connections )

Ron Evans

I'm eyeing the panasonic HC-X1 instead of the UX180 as I don't need the SDI and timecode....
Looking over the manual, it says it can do f/2.8-4.5 Would that be a constant 2.8 as I zoom in?
Thanks!

I'm eyeing the panasonic HC-X1 instead of the UX180 as I don't need the SDI and timecode....
Looking over the manual, it says it can do f/2.8-4.5 Would that be a constant 2.8 as I zoom in?
Thanks!

No, as you zoom in the lens ramps from F2.8 at wide to F4.5 and it gets there before the full zoom too I think.

Ron Evans

Hi All

Really interesting thread. I'm going to show my ignorance here, but I've been thinking for a while to upgrade my old Sony Z5 for possibly a UX180. Now I see the HC-X1 is the consumer version and is considerably cheaper here in the UK, and seems much the same.

Can I ask what losing the HD-SDI output and timecode is worth to a non-commercial film-maker like me who usually makes movies solo? I hope it means nothing.

Thanks.

It would make absolutely no difference for your purposes, you wouldn't need SDI and timecode at all. If you ever did need to connect to a switcher in a TV studio, most newer switchers use HDMI also, which of course, the HC-X1 has.

Hi William,

I am also still using the sony Z5u..what a great camera..and can't beat the 1.6 ..just wow..I only now use it only for wedding reception footage. Also looking at the UX180 at first, but I think the HC-1X is all I need.
Happy shopping!

My FZ2500 has the same ..F2.8 at wide and yes, it hits F4.5 before you get to full zoom ... so that would probably be much the same.

A fixed aperture lens would be too expensive and heavy for these larger sensor cameras. In addition they also are limited in reach. While my 1/3" camcorder is also variable aperture at the wide end its 1.6 about 2 stops faster and 23x zoom. But despite that advantage it exhibits more noise in the shadows. It's seldom you gain something without losing something. The trade off here is senor size (resolution and light sensitivity) for reduced optics range and aperture. I often bring both cameras to an event and use which ever one suits my need.

I just got an email from B&H saying that they're shipping the AG-UX180. Unfortunately, the latest review on the B&H site is not so good. The reviewer says that "this camera is a noisy mess", and mentioned that even on a bright sunny day with the iris wide open, gain set to 0db, there was visible noise on every shot.
I think I'll keep using my NX5U until Sony releases something amazing, and I don't think I'll be considering Panasonic.

Huh?.....I have a hard time believing that its "that" noisy. Sony's 1inch-type chips are pretty clean at 0db. Hell, they are supprisingly clean at 12db too. If Panasonic is buying Sony made sensors, Id expect this camera to at least be as good as a Sony Z150. It "should" be even better if the sensor has a lower pixel count and has larger photosites.

I dunno....i need to see them together with my own two eyes before I believe any opinion.

the latest review on the B&H site is not so good. The reviewer says that "this camera is a noisy mess", and mentioned that even on a bright sunny day with the iris wide open, gain set to 0db, there was visible noise on every shot.
Do you have the link for this rather disturbing post please?
I'm a disbeliever of that one.

This sample of HC-X1 looks nice to my eyes Panasonic Hc X1 Footage UHD 4K low light test - YouTube. For the reference to the review just go to https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1250996-REG/panasonic_ag_ux180_4k_professional_camcorder.html.

Ron Evans

Do you have the link for this rather disturbing post please?
I'm a disbeliever of that one.

Click on the reviews link:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1250996-REG/panasonic_ag_ux180_4k_professional_camcorder.html

I'm also skeptical of the other review that starts with "Panasonic loaned me an AG-UX180". The reviewer who wrote that review obviously has some sort of preferential relationship with Panasonic.

Hi and thanks for that. Thanks also to Ron.

I'm not professional videographer, or someone who buys this kind of kit more than once every few years. I don't really know this supplier.

But this linked format of review can't carry any strength or guaranteed validity surely? Is it true, as it's the only comment of such negativity that I've came across in my little bit of research into a new cam?

The reviewer panned it as being totally worthless in good light, and without any light processing. It could have been written by a rival company; it appears that damning.

Although I've used a Sony Z5 for years, I've loads of Panasonic kit, and nothing they've made has really let me down in basic function - but I say that as a basic consumer and not a discerning pro.

I see the HC-X1 as all I need, and I really can't take the linked review with serious respect. At best it's an opinion from a random dood who took an opportunity to have a pop at an otherwise well appraised camcorder.

Is there a UX180 owner on here to comment?

Regards

Got the UX180 today and played with it a bit around the office. First reaction is that it's night and day better than the UX90 picture quality wise. At first glance, I was liking the images for the most part at 0db, 6db and 12db gain judging off a 5" Atomos monitor. I'm on the fence about buying a trio of these cameras, and will be doing more testing in the coming week. I think that modification of the picture profiles help a lot in cleaning up the images. The camera looks pretty gross IMO when you first turn it on. Developing...

Click on the reviews link:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1250996-REG/panasonic_ag_ux180_4k_professional_camcorder.html

I'm also skeptical of the other review that starts with "Panasonic loaned me an AG-UX180". The reviewer who wrote that review obviously has some sort of preferential relationship with Panasonic.
I don't put much weight in his review because I own the UX90 that uses the same sensor. It's not without flaws but the image quality is fine.

It's always a red flag when someone resorts to hyperbole. The noise at 0db on a sunny day is unusable? Did he forget to take the lens cap off?

I've read enough complaints from people do to their misuse or their unrealistic expectations. "I returned this dslr because the audio is unusable!"

Got the UX180 today and played with it a bit around the office. First reaction is that it's night and day better than the UX90 picture quality wise. At first glance, I was liking the images for the most part at 0db, 6db and 12db gain judging off a 5" Atomos monitor. I'm on the fence about buying a trio of these cameras, and will be doing more testing in the coming week.

The real test would be to import the video into your NLE and scrutinize it on a 27" monitor.

[QUOTE=Pete Cofrancesco;1925742]I don't put much weight in his review because I own the UX90 that uses the same sensor./QUOTE]

The UX90 has a different sensor from the UX180/HC-X1 .

Ron Evans

I didn't know they used different sensors but they're both 1" and the 180 is a higher end model. Point being I have a point of reference. Do you own or use the UX180? I wouldn't base my opinion on one review. It's a very new camera I know the dvx200 had a noise issue on its release that a firmware update fixed. But without any other corroborating reviews I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

I don't put much weight in his review because I own the UX90 that uses the same sensor. It's not without flaws but the image quality is fine.

It's always a red flag when someone resorts to hyperbole. The noise at 0db on a sunny day is unusable? Did he forget to take the lens cap off?

I've read enough complaints from people do to their misuse or their unrealistic expectations. "I returned this dslr because the audio is unusable!"

Yes they are both 1" type but look at this early reference information UX Series | 4K CAMCORDER | Broadcast and Professional AV (http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/ux/index.html) The UX90 is likely a 1" sensor used by other still cameras and maybe even the Sony 1" models like the AX100 it is quoted as having around 18Mpixels. The UX180 only has 8.79 . So individual pixel area is much bigger for light gathering etc. I believe Barry has stated it has a 1 stop advantage over the UX90.

No I do not have either yet but I am considering the HC-X1 as I have no need for SDI and in Canada the difference is $700 for something I do not need.

Ron Evans

EDIT: The UX90 crops in to a 8.70 area of the sensor for UHD and thus the wide angle moves to 35.4mm. There may be other technical reasons why it is also limited to 30P in UHD.

You are missing my point the reviewer is saying the 180 is unusable because the noise it exhibits @ 0db on a sunny day. That is ludicrous. The UX90 despite the sensor being less sensitive delivers a very nice image without any appreciable noise under those conditions making his complaints about the 180 more ludicrous. People make these statements like this camera is terrible but compared to what?

It would make absolutely no difference for your purposes, you wouldn't need SDI and timecode at all. If you ever did need to connect to a switcher in a TV studio, most newer switchers use HDMI also, which of course, the HC-X1 has.

The problem on HDMI is the distance. Without a repeater you can't catch 100m :), not even 10-15m.

Of course SDI cable is more stable, HDMI may have problems on connector after a lot of usage.

You are missing my point the reviewer is saying the 180 is unusable because the noise it exhibits @ 0db on a sunny day. That is ludicrous. The UX90 despite the sensor being less sensitive delivers a very nice image without any appreciable noise under those conditions making his complaints about the 180 more ludicrous. People make these statements like this camera is terrible but compared to what?

Check Dnavas posts (22/12 & 28/12) on other Dvxu* forum in Panasonic UX180 thread.

He upload a lot of interesting mp4 records without editing on his google drive. If the settings weren’t wrong, there is small noise (take a close look in editing) on Panasonic UX180 even in daylight.

I am wondering if Sony Z150 have the same noise. If someone can share some Sony Z150 records, it would be useful. Unfortunately, you can’t see this noise on YouTube, Vimeo & other sites, only from direct records.

Just reading what you said only confirms my belief that his review isn't reliable. He sounds like the type of guy who scrutinized video with a magnifying glass.

What I've come to learn all cameras exhibit noise in the shadows and yes even @ 0db. Granted some more than others. Cameras in addition do a lot of processing to remove noise. Ever look at unprocessed log video you'd be shocked.

The reviewer characterizes the camera as "unusable" . By his standards what camera would be usable?

Ok, this is the most boring video ever but I did it and here it is. Shot with 12dB the whole time and adjusted the aperture for exposure. Film Like 3 gamma, Still-Like Matrix. Minor contrast adjustments and some stabilization. Excuse the messy office. Hopefully there will be something more interesting to shoot in the next few days, but it's -5 degrees outside right now and I'm not keen to go outside.

Panasonic UX180 Interior Test 12dB Gain - YouTube

Looks great.

I agree! And with 12db gain too.

Maybe the bad review on B&H was due to:
1.) operator error
2.) defective camera
3.) a negative review from a competing company attempting to make them look bad

Ok, this is the most boring video ever but I did it and here it is. Shot with 12dB the whole time and adjusted the aperture for exposure. Film Like 3 gamma, Still-Like Matrix. Minor contrast adjustments and some stabilization. Excuse the messy office. Hopefully there will be something more interesting to shoot in the next few days, but it's -5 degrees outside right now and I'm not keen to go outside.

Panasonic UX180 Interior Test 12dB Gain - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-6vRsd1LU)

Nate, can you upload somewhere the original records of that video? (not all just few seconds)

Here ya go: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qbgi8j9nt4xit7w/AABc9XDKCgSxhiN3ZuD8FUu0a?dl=0

Thanks Nate, we are talking for the same small noise.

I load it on editor and even on 100% of zoom I see this small noise. It’s not something important, x264 encoding will remove the most of the noise, but if you need to crop or to make some digital zoom to correct the frame it should a little problem. Of course we can use noise reduction software, but render will take longer.

The good is that it produces the same noise even on 12db, and that’s impressive.

By the way, as I look more shots, I think that is more like jpeg artifacts than noise. Maybe it’s the codec and not the lens. Or as Pete says, all cameras have the same small noise, unfortunately I can’t compare it for example with a Sony FS7 type of camcorder to see raw shots.

Thanks again.

Anthony, I'm glad to help out in your research. That being said, I think you might be expecting too much from this particular camera. When it all comes down to it, you have a small-ish, high resolution 4K sensor, recording a highly-compressed codec onto SDXC cards in 8-bit. In fact, I would say that the compressed UHD footage is really helped by that noise in order to reduce 8-bit banding.

Just for kicks, I put another clip in that dropbox link I posted earlier, a scene I shot with the Sony A7S2. While the sensor is vastly superior to the UX180, it records internally to a very similar codec: 100mbps XAVC-S UHD at 8-bits. I think that it exhibits some very similar characteristics. You might need to put a little contrast/saturation grade on it.

Now, I'm not defending the UX180. It does have noise, and I do see it. But the real question is does it look "good enough" for the types of projects it's meant to be used on, and does it look good enough for you to be happy with it. I think that for certain projects where a shooter needs a grab and go camera, it really seems like a great option. I'm impressed so far in that regard. If I was shooting a cinematic style video, the UX180 wouldn't be my first choice. I'd use a super 35mm or full frame camera to do that, like the A7S2 or FS7 you mentioned before. A camera that records on a large sensor, in a robust codec and a higher bit depth.

BUT :
I don't want to go shoot a low budget event with a FS7. I don't want a half dozen lenses. I don't want 480mbps 4K XAVC-I files to deal with. I also don't want to spend 3-5x the amount of money on a camera if projects don't require it. Also, if you've ever done sporting events, news, concerts, conferences, or pretty much anything that you don't get to yell "Action!" and "Cut!," you know how much it sucks to shoot those things with interchangeable lens "cinema" cameras. That is where a camera like this shines. In the cinematic stuff? Not so much.

That's a decision for anyone interested in purchasing a camera. What will they actually be using it for? If it's for work? Or is it for you? If it's for work, think about what would make the job the easiest, most profitable for your business, and give the expected results for the client. If the camera is just for you, don't try to force yourself to like the images - if they don't make you happy now, they never will. If you need to shoot RAW video of you cat to be satisfied, that's awesome - it's only a terrible choice if you're trying to run a business and put food on the table with your video work.

I believe that to look so closely for noise in footage is a losing battle. As you mentioned, the noise disappears on YouTube! Besides handing over raw files or MAYBE BluRay discs, how would an end viewer ever notice it? Even 99% of people have their HDTVs set up to do "noise reduction" or "reality creation" or whatever other crappy processing comes standard. I'd even go so far to say that the vasty majority wouldn't notice the noise even if it was there...but that's an argument for another day :)

TL;DR:
If image quality is the most important thing to you at all costs, don't get this camera, especially if you prefer to shoot cinematic style content. If you want a capable do-it-all camera for fast moving shooting, I think it's a very decent choice.

Just had to say well said Nate! Great advice.

Nate, I can’t agree more with you… but the problem is that sometimes clients disagree with that. Yes, UX180 it’s a big improvement for my current equipment, but I have to do the right choice on a “logical” price.

Sony Z150 was good for me until I found the limitation with LCD, Output and 4K recording (of course there are more limitations but I said I can live with that). UX180 doesn’t have a lot of features that Z150 does, but it’s more a camcorder and not a firework (sorry Sony but you think more the marketing and not the real life)

I will never use an FS7 type camera just for conferences and small events (my job is to stream live conferences, with of course the on demand option), because I will never get the money of my investment back. But always we search for the perfect.

For me UX180 is enough, and I don't like it, but I can “live” with that small noise (I am close to buy 2 camcorders to cover my events).

Thanks again.

Nate, thank you for posting the original clips. They are very helpful. How does the low light on the UX180 hold up to your C100?

Nate, thank you for posting the original clips. They are very helpful. How does the low light on the UX180 hold up to your C100?

I'm not really sure I guess. I haven't had a chance to see them side by side just yet. The UX180 is sharper of course, but the C100 has always had that 'mojo." Perhaps I can do a test of some sort this week. I don't think it's going to be close when it comes to low-light, but we'll see. C100 base ISO is supposed to be 850 and I believe Barry said the UX was supposed to be somewhere around 450? A good question for sure and one that I need to answer for myself when deciding if it's worth it for me to switch over from C100s to the UX cams for events.

Just placed my order for a HC-X1 instead of the UX180...I don't need the sdi outs

The manual for HC-X1 says it does 120fps in 1080p mode without audio....does this mean that it automatically records in slow motion on the SD card or do I have to do the slow motion in post (meaning it records at regular speed like the sony z150)?

Thanks

I was also able to borrow the UX180 for a while.

Here's some select videos in 4K 60p.
Lion Dances #1 舞狮 / múa lân / barongsai tarian singa Chinatown New York 2017 4K 60p Panasonic UX180 - YouTube
Lion Dances #3 舞狮 / múa lân / barongsai tarian singa Chinatown New York 2017 4K 60p Panasonic UX180 - YouTube
春节 / Lunar New Year 2017 - Parade - Lion Dance 舞狮 / múa lân - New York - Panasonic AG UX180 4K 60p ! - YouTube
�NE / New England Patriots Victory Parade - Super Bowl champs - Boston 4K 60p ! Panasonic AG UX180 - YouTube

Rest of my UX90 and UX180 can be found in this playlist:
Panasonic UX90 / UX180 / HC-X1 videos. - YouTube

Still have a couple of more UX180 videos to edit and upload.

Late afternoon scenes that I took at the beach when I still had the camera.
Revere Beach 4K 60p Panasonic AG UX180 - YouTube

Looks like nothing that couldn't easily have been done with an iPhone.

Now that was a great comment, can't imagine how silly all those ux180 owners must feel for wasting their money on a camera that cannot even be used to make a phonecall.

I guess the professional look of the AG-UX180's camera body and lens would be more impressive to a client than bringing an iPhone to a shoot, but you have to admit that that video shows nothing that couldn't be done on an iPhone. Unless you need to impress a client by the physical characterisics of your camera, why spend the money? I know I won't. Provideo camera manufacturers really need to step up their game. I want to see something absolutely stunning in the $4,000 price point, not this mediocre stuff.

Before I"m off to buy the Iphone, does it have a optical 20x motorized zoom, build in ND filters, dual slot recording, SDI out and XLR in out of the box just to name a few?
Maybe you could share something that you shot for a client on a mobile phone that doesn't look mediocre?

I know the 180 can't even make a call. Lol Panasonic step up your game or I'm replacing you with the iPhone [/coo-coo]