I have a CX 760 that I use as a travel cam.
It was cam of the year when it was released, and still IMO sets a high standard for a compact, fairly full featured HD handicam with BOSS stabilization.
I am not interested in UHD for travel shooting at present (I have an X70 if I need UHD capability).
So, I am wondering what's the case that could be made for upgrading to an AX-53?
One important downside for me is that the AX-53 appears to be significantly larger- so it's got to offer some significant functional improvement to make the extra bulk worthwhile
Ron, I know you have a lot of experience with the CX 700 series, what is your opinion??
Thanks

From what I have seen and heard the ax-53 is close to the ax100 when it comes to IQ, unlike the ax33 which received quite some negative response on IQ. I have a ax100 and a cx730 and if the ax-53 would look much like the ax100 the only reason to get it over a cx730 would be the extra image detail you get. I notice this best when I shoot a wedding and have to match ceremony footage from the ax100 and cx730. The ax100 resolves visible more detail and it's only in that respect you start to see the cx730 is starting to age. This is why I only use the ax100 in 4K set wide so I can crop in post so that it becomes less noticeable against my other HD only camera's. When it comes to ease of shooting, I still much prefer my cx730, even if it does not have the same manual features and image detail as a ax100, that boss stabilization is from another planet and hard to leave behind, especially when I"m shooting handheld, I would always trade 4k resolution for a better OIS.

Attached are a few photos of size comparison ( AX53 is in the middle in all photos ) to the AX100 and the NX30U ( like your CX760 ). It is midway between the NX30U and the AX100 in size. Wider than the NX30U and a little more heavy. The two things that stand out are longer zoom, wider wide angle and cleaner image in XAVC-S than the NX30U. It also has full data code and time code( in XAVC-S file ) too for integration with other cameras if that is what you want to use for multicam editing sync. Image quality is closer to the AX100 than the NX30U, clean and sharp. It is a lot bigger as you can see but I have changed to use it for family stuff rather than the NX30U. Performance is a little less sensitive than the NX30U ( maybe 1/2 stop and a stop slower than the AX100 ) but a lot cleaner especially at really high gain. I would say a marginal but noticeable improvement over the NX30U. Side by side the image is cleaner and a lot sharper than the AVCHD from the NX30U. Interworks well with the AX100 and both of course shoot UHD 30P. You should note though that the older A/V or LANC with adapters , wired remotes do not work with the AX53 and you will need one of the new Sony wired remotes or it does work with the IR remote from the NX30U but does not come with a wireless remote.

Ron Evans

I know there has been discussions of managing exposure on these small Sony's especially in low light. In bright light ( like snow ) I have a variable ND that I use. Still set shutter maybe 120 in bright light but use AE shift control at + max, AGC limit 6db. Look at a reasonable scene and rotate the ND until the image starts to go dark. So now the camera has max gain and fully open iris. Back off the ND just a little and turn AE shift to 0 again, set shutter speed to 90. I have found this works fine for me and gives the camera some control range in the snow while limiting the light. The aim is to get the light input so that the camera can control iris and gain in the f3.4 and +6db range for max depth of field. Not great but about all one can do. If you add too much ND the iris will open full and gain will go up and shutter will go down ( if you are in auto shutter it is why I always set shutter speed ). In other words you are forcing the camera into a position of needing max iris and gain and then giving it back ( reducing shutter speed and AE shift since you cannot see what is happening to gain or iris only after the fact in the data code ) Then you can control with AE shift up or down.

Ron Evans

On my sony handicams I prefer to always handle the exposure manually as I get better controlled results out of that. I just don't like AE shift and only use it unless I have no other choice, in such a case you are still letting the camera handle exposure by itself and it doesn't always know what it should be, you can compensate with AE but in quick changing light conditions you are adjusting for the camera not getting it right, that means the exposure can fluctuate a bit all the time while you keep on correcting the camera, something that doesn't occur in manual mode.

With my ax100 it's easy to do it fully manual but with my cx730 turning the dial will affect f-stop, iso and shutter since I never use a nd on that camera but I can live with a too high shutter when I can lock and control my exposure.

Yes it is always a compromise when you can't control everything. But there is no manual mode on the small Sony's only the "exposure " control which fixes everything but under the control of the auto exposure of the camera. You have no control of what the camera chooses only how you see the brightness of the image with your eyes ( or use Zebras etc ) just like AE shift . With the exposure control the camera will fix these parameters and with AE shift the relative brightness will be maintained. At least with AE shift one has control of shutter speed and AGC limit. With changing scenes levels AE shift will maintain the brightness level but the exposure control will stay the same. With shooting when skiing I do not want to keep adjusting and do not like the shutter to be too fast so hence my approach of forcing the camera into a narrow control band. In the theatre the small cameras are unattended and I do not want to fix exposure but let the camera control based on the stage lighting hence again I use AE shift. Fixing the exposure control doesn't work in the theatre because the lighting swings are too much. Data code shows the full range of exposure on the unattended camera for some plays ie wide open iris and full gain ( I limit gain to 21db) to the exact opposite. The camera is fixed, the stage is fixed and only the level of the stage lighting is changing so AE shift works well to maintain a relative brightness level. Only when a single actor is in a small spotlight on a black stage does the system fall apart !!! But in those instance both my wife and I have that actor in our framing with controlled exposure so there is not a problem. I did start off, years ago, using the exposure control but after some really too dark or totally over exposed video moved to AE shift.

Ron Evans

so ron using the ae shift unmanned, it knows to open up or close just rigth where its not too hot or too dark?
thats really good if it can do that. im always using the dial to adjust the xposure up and down, while manning my ex1r. it would be nice to know i can do the ae shift and i will be happy with the outcome.i know u made an adjustment of the ae, -7? i think i saw that.

I usually use -0.7. There are of course limitations. The obvious one being, in my case an actor in a spotlight and the rest of the stage black. It will not manage that of course and will over expose as expected, but for normal light changes it works well within a range that can be adjusted later without over exposing or being too dark. My wife uses this all the time with the AX100 as she does the closeups for me and rarely changes this setting, sometimes going to -0.5 if she thinks it is getting a little dark for her liking. Means she can focus on framing and focus rather than also worry about exposure. She watches the zebra to see if it get too hot set at 85%. Unattended I always set at 0.7 as I can lift the shadows later. Remember it is not the only camera as I am full manual with my NX5U and my wife is closeup with the AX100 so wide swings in lighting are usually managed.

For normal family hand held stuff I also have the camera in AE shift at -0.5 with general surrounding as the Sony's are usually too hot in normal auto. With the AX53 and the AX100 it is better to underexpose as the shadows are easy to correct using YUV filter in EDIUS and it is too easy to overexpose the highlights.

Essentially AE shift says to the camera keep the exposure at this difference to what you would normally set as auto default.

Ron Evans

Hi, I hope I don´t break the topic, but since here is a lively discussion about the AX53 I´d like to ask a question to the AX53 owners:

My first AX53 showed a strange behaviour while using manual focus especially in full tele (peaking and focus magnifier on). I didn´t find any dependencies to recording mode (using 4K, 25p, 100Mbps) etc., but I had to turn the focus wheel for more than 7 full rotations from nearest focus to farest!! This was nearly unusable!!

I had the camcorder exchanged for a second copy since this unit didn´t show that behaviour in the shop, even Sony couldn't answer me competent after placing that question.
The second copy only needs about 1,2 turns from near to far what is ok for me.

The only difference between these two copies is, that I had updated the first cam to 1.01 directly after the purchase, my second is still 1.00. I don´t know how the first had focused with 1.00.

Could anyone here check that behaviour who already has updated to 1.01?



Beside that a very nice camcorder and good addition to my X70, better than my former AX33 in most regards!
Unluckily the BOSS is still not working using a monopod. The stabilizer always becomes very unstable after a few seconds.
Using a monopod would help avoiding the rotational movement that the BOSS doesn´t compensate in standard mode. Moving the cam slightly for-/backwards with the monopod helps but looks somewhat silly!!
The AX33 had the same problem. I also contacted Sony for this, waiting for a response...

I usually use -0.7. There are of course limitations. The obvious one being, in my case an actor in a spotlight and the rest of the stage black. It will not manage that of course and will over expose as expected, but for normal light changes it works well within a range that can be adjusted later without over exposing or being too dark. My wife uses this all the time with the AX100 as she does the closeups for me and rarely changes this setting, sometimes going to -0.5 if she thinks it is getting a little dark for her liking. Means she can focus on framing and focus rather than also worry about exposure. She watches the zebra to see if it get too hot set at 85%. Unattended I always set at 0.7 as I can lift the shadows later. Remember it is not the only camera as I am full manual with my NX5U and my wife is closeup with the AX100 so wide swings in lighting are usually managed.

For normal family hand held stuff I also have the camera in AE shift at -0.5 with general surrounding as the Sony's are usually too hot in normal auto. With the AX53 and the AX100 it is better to underexpose as the shadows are easy to correct using YUV filter in EDIUS and it is too easy to overexpose the highlights.

Essentially AE shift says to the camera keep the exposure at this difference to what you would normally set as auto default.

Ron Evans

I prefer zebra at 100% and follow these rules:
Neutral colored items (white, grey) can easily be recorded with zebra completely showing up. When exposure get´s even higher zebra starts to disappear. This happens from IRE105 on where the camera really clips and looses differentiation!

With colored items I found to go best not to exceed IRE100 (zebra starts showing) since zebra seems to show up until one RGB primary reaches 100% but only disappears when all primaries clip.
When one primary clips and the others not this leads to "distortion" and "ugly appearance".

In post in EDIUS I always correct to IRE0 to IRE100 setting a linear YUV curve from 0,16 to 16,16 (bottom) and 16,16 to 255,235 with a slight buckle in the top.
Going this way should enable me to use the largest DR the camera gives me. This works good for me on both my X70 and my AX53.

Unluckily the BOSS is still not working using a monopod. The stabilizer always becomes very unstable after a few seconds.

Not sure if this is a bug? On a monopod the stabilization should be turned off, especially in the boss mode because it will introduce unwanted corrections, this can be best seen when you are on a tripod zoomed in and then do a pan, as soon as you stop panning the image bounces around for a second or 2. The boss system is remarkably effective when shooting handheld but has an opposite effect on a tripod, and possibly a monopod as well.

No "bug", but I think this may be improved since the stabilisation is working fine for the first few seconds! The picture in these first seconds is clearly more steady than using a monopod without steadyshot on. But after first few seconds the closed loop control becomes "unstable". Similar to first stabilizer systems on photo cameras like Nikon VR e.g.. They fixed this.

Don't expect Sony to be doing anything about it, as long as the boss system works as it should when you shoot handheld it is functioning correctly. This camera is targeted to people taking it on holiday and film their children growing up and they all shoot handheld.

I don't like the rotational component of movement that is not compensated yet, so there is place for improvement.

See this people filming "handheld" with an ax33 ;-) ;-) ;-)!!!

Kleine 4K Videokamera mit W-LAN | FDR-AX33 | Sony DE (http://www.sony.de/electronics/handycam-camcorder/fdr-ax33)

He probably has the stabilization set to off in such a case like it should, I know how the boss system acts as I have a cx730 and you can' t compare it with any other camera out there because no-one uses the same system, if you shoot handheld the boss system is very effective in stabilizing the image, if you shoot on a tripod or monopod you disable it, the boss system is not designed to work properly in such a case.

I prefer zebra at 100% and follow these rules:
Neutral colored items (white, grey) can easily be recorded with zebra completely showing up. When exposure get´s even higher zebra starts to disappear. This happens from IRE105 on where the camera really clips and looses differentiation!

With colored items I found to go best not to exceed IRE100 (zebra starts showing) since zebra seems to show up until one RGB primary reaches 100% but only disappears when all primaries clip.
When one primary clips and the others not this leads to "distortion" and "ugly appearance".

In post in EDIUS I always correct to IRE0 to IRE100 setting a linear YUV curve from 0,16 to 16,16 (bottom) and 16,16 to 255,235 with a slight buckle in the top.
Going this way should enable me to use the largest DR the camera gives me. This works good for me on both my X70 and my AX53.

For me shooting stage shows I want to make sure that faces are well exposed but not over exposed. I ignore zebras on white shirts etc only look for zebra on faces. Since normal practice is 75% for well exposed faces 85% means they are becoming over exposed. The compromise is how well the rest of the frame is exposed. I have found that setting at 75% often means the rest of the frame is too under exposed and since I too use EDIUS means too much playing with YUV curves to get reasonable picture. Hence I have found 85% to be the sweet spot. Both AX100 and AX53 or even the NX30U manage lifted shadows really well so it is better to under expose slightly to get good faces. For the AX100, AX53 and NX30U AE shift at -0.7 gets the black level spot on and highlights are at 105 easily brought down with the YUV curve for those white shirts etc. My wife only alters the AE shift if she sees zebras ( at 85% ) and this rarely happens with AE shift at - 0.7 .

Ron Evans

Ron Evans

What about my initial question? Anybody using manual focus on AX53 and already on FW1.01??
Hi, I hope I don´t break the topic, but since here is a lively discussion about the AX53 I´d like to ask a question to the AX53 owners:

My first AX53 showed a strange behaviour while using manual focus especially in full tele (peaking and focus magnifier on). I didn´t find any dependencies to recording mode (using 4K, 25p, 100Mbps) etc., but I had to turn the focus wheel for more than 7 full rotations from nearest focus to farest!! This was nearly unusable!!

I had the camcorder exchanged for a second copy since this unit didn´t show that behaviour in the shop, even Sony couldn't answer me competent after placing that question.
The second copy only needs about 1,2 turns from near to far what is ok for me.

The only difference between these two copies is, that I had updated the first cam to 1.01 directly after the purchase, my second is still 1.00. I don´t know how the first had focused with 1.00.

Could anyone here check that behaviour who already has updated to 1.01?

I am still on 1.00 and do not use manual focus. Use spot focus all the time. Not sure if I would benefit by updating since it works fine for me. Will update when the current set of projects is finished in a few weeks.

Ron Evans

Off topic I know but there isn't a FDR-AX53 in the UK that I can see, all waiting for stock :)

Yes, unluckily it seems there won't be any until august.
What a mess for potential buyers and af course for Sony. They are loosing some further millions...!

I'm so lucky I got one of the very latest here in Germany at Saturn Düsseldorf, even had the chance to exchange, but now they're also gone. Hardly anyone has that camera in stock anymore.

Yes, unluckily it seems there won't be any until august.
.

Thanks Roland, wonder why until August?

Sonys sensor fabs were damaged in a recent (april ?!) earthquake in Japan. Sonyalpharumors stated that some still cameras production will be delayed until august, I think camcorders are also affected.
Here in Germany the AX53 is very hardly available any more, only very few shops have one in stock any more.

In Belgium and the Netherlands the camera is still in stock in most larger videostores.

Ah well, I can wait, thanks all.

Thanks, guys, for discussing the AX53 availability. I just ordered one because the posibility of waiting until August was not an option. It was the last one they had in stock so hopefully they don’t come back and tell me their computer system was not up to date.

Trying to keep Roland’s question alive, posts #59 and #68:
What about my initial question? Anybody using manual focus on AX53 and already on FW1.01??

If anyone has any insight it would be appreciated.

So, now I'm sure: the manual focus problems come with FW1.01! A friend of mine also got his AX53. In contrast to mine manufactured in 03/2016 his is 05/2016 and already came with FW1.01.

He also needs 7 turns in tele to focus from close to far - unusable!! Hope Sony fixes that soon!!

It says auto focus is improved with the update. Has he tried using spot focus ( touch ) in full tele to see if the speed or accuracy is improved? It may be quicker to use spot focus then if needed fine tune with manual. I have never been able to improve focus from the touch focus which is why I now always use touch focus. Downside is rack focus is at a fixed speed ( if you touch another part of the image ) so if you want to control the focus transition speed you will have to use manual.

Ron Evans

I compared focus speed in tele but I can't see any difference, but we were only on 4k 25p. Maybe there are improvements in FHD since the sensor is read out faster.
I hardly use AF since it struggles in complex situations, even spot focus does. Shooting birds through branches or similar things is hardly possible. In full tele depth of field is quite shallow, so even in not that complex situations it's hard to get focus on the eyes with AF. But AF isn't really bad on the AX53. In many situations you get good results.

I only use auto focus when shooting family stuff. My projects are in the theatre so a less difficult task to spot focus. My wife uses the AX100 to shoot closeups for our shoot and uses spot focus to focus on eyes of faces etc. Camera is left in manual focus and when she wants to re focus just touches the My button and the place on the LCD she wants to be in focus. I just felt that using touch focus to get close would mean very little movement for you to finish focus manually rather than 7 turns. If you set you My Buttons to be Manual focus( spot touch focus ), Focus Magnifier, Imagestabilizer ( or what ever ) and set the ring for focus. Then if you use touch focus followed by focusing on the ring focus magnifier will kick in as soon as you touch the ring and you can check if the focus is Ok. Just did a test shooting into the trees in my back garden and touch focus got it spot on all the time for me when I checked with focusing. I have peaking set so that I can see what is in focus too as one of my normal My Buttons.

Ron Evans

...no more space on the "my buttons" ;-)!! I need peaking, zebra and white balance there!

AF or not (!! ;-) ), 7 rounds is silly mess, resolution to set the right focus doesn't increase by that since peaking hardly shows any difference many times. The old 1.2 turns is more direct and also faster. If they would do 2 turns I'd also say ok, but 7 plus is stupid - I got wounds on my fingers by polishing the focus wheel ;-)!!

I have zebra on permanently, white balance is always on a preset but I do have peaking on a button because it only needs to be on sometimes. In the theatre there is always a mix of lights so no point in setting white balance as it changes scene by scene so I set indoor preset. When shooting outside for the family I just leave in AWB or fix outdoor preset and correct in post anyway. AE shift is on all the time on the ring. Outside it is about -0.2 o-0.5 in the theatre -0.2 to -0.7 just adjust watching the zebras. Focus is always manual but set with spot focus other than family videos when it is in auto.

I agree 7 turns is a little excessive but I expect Sony expected this type of camera to be used in a different way.

Ron Evans

If previously it only took 1-2 turns, then the firmware "goofed" it up, it's quite possible that it was an unexpected side effect of something else they "tweaked". Report it as a "bug", and hopefully they can fix it in the next release? At least you've narrowed it to firmware, so it in theory SHOULD be fixable?

Sony does respond to user feedback, usually slowly, but I can't imagine someone asking for 7 turns of range to adjust and fine tune focus!? Manual focus is always sort of a tricky thing to "nail", but too little adjustment/rotation would as you've noted, create another set of "issues"!

Just got myself an AX53, has the same problem with the focus. Still love the camera. Has anyone tried attaching the xlr block from a HVR-A1E. Trying to find a cheap way of using xlr phantom powered mics.

The X70 has had that same focus "issue" since it was released.........that, and the need for an iris ring, were the main reasons I upgraded to the Z150.

The "in the field OMG need the shot now" work-around is to ZOOM OUT SOME OR FULL WIDE, SNAP FOCUS NEAR OR FAR, THEN ZOOM BACK IN. I have gotten used to that procedure, it faster than spinning the focus ring 20,000 1/4 cranks!

Paul

Hi all,
I hope this is the right thread, I’m evaluating to step to 4K and am interested in the AX53, since I own a Sony HDR-CX730E and I really love the great effectiveness of the balanced optical stabilizer, so I want to have that feature again. So I have a couple of questions to expert users.
First, I am concerned by the limitation to 25p (Europe market): presently I shoot at 50p in HD and if I try to shoot at 25p, I get an unpleasant jerky effect during camera pans. I think I cannot mitigate that by locking the shutter speed to 1/50th because I normally use the camera in very bright light, during my walks in the mountains. Do you think it will be the same when shooting in 4K, considering that my final output is on Bluray and DVD (downsized), both at 50i, but I would keep the 4K master for future watching on a 4K TV set ?
Since I use to shoot still pictures too, I would like to avoid to carry a still camera in addition to the camcorder: my CX730 has a barely acceptable quality, but not equal to a still camera and only when in PHOTO mode, so I wonder if the AX53 would be better on that, when shooting in Dual Mode in order to get still pictures at 4K resolution; another chance is to capture single frames from the video, again at 4K resolution. Has anyone experience with the still picture quality with the AX53?
Thank you

I have the AX53 and just shoot XAVC-S 60P as I do not like slow frame rates. Still frame grabs from the video are not bad to my eyes. Definitely not as good as a still camera but the still taken from it are pretty good I think. I like the 20x zoom and image stabilizer, XAVC-S with timecode and data code when compared to my NX30U ( similar to your CX730 ). I just consider it an upgrade from my NX30U and in that way it is very good. If you want smooth UHD motion you will need to look at a much more expensive camera. FDR-AX1, PXW-Z100, HC-X1000, DVX200 or soon to be available AG-UX180. Or even more expensive !!!

Ron Evans

I have the Pal version of the camera and love it, as a handheld camera. Yes there are a few things Sony has restricted. That said the 4k converted down to HD is really sharp. I'm sure you have seen a few YouTube reviews.

Do you want me to film any test shots for you or setting. I'm in the process of building a new website about filming my own work with the Sony AX53 and the challenges of not having full manual control. I'm use to more highend cameras, so I've set myself personal challenge to make a film with this camera to the highest standard possible.

The website will have a number of test shoots on it and I have to film a number of night street shots when the weather is better to see how the camera performs in low light.

Thank you for your replies. As soon as I can I will make some more tests to investigate and possibly understand if 25p is really an issue for me.
@Ron: when you say you film in 60p, I suppose it's at HD resolution, as the AX53 does not allow this in 4k, correct?

Yes I only use AX53 as a HD camera I use my FDR-AX1 for UHD 60P. I also have an AX100 that I also only use at HD I really do not like the judder of 30P.

Ron Evans

I'm doing some more test shots with the AX53. Does anyone know if it's possible to read the metadata within a editing system and burn-in the camera setting within the image. I now the camera can do it via HDMI.

Wondering if there is a plugin available. I'm PC based and may need to download a 30 trail of the editing software if needed. I'm Avid Media Composer based mainly and use Blackmagic Resolve for XAVC-S.

Hello everyone,

I have sony ax53 and i discovered when i use headphones for live monitoring there is a audio delay or sound like echo. Is it a normal for these sony cam?? wondering, is sony ax100 has the same problem?? if not, i'll pick ax100,
thanks for help.

I have noticed that too. Sorry I don't have a answer for you. Something I have too look into over the weekend.

The audio will be in sync with the video not the live sound. That is why you will hear an echo. Same is true for most cameras.

Ron Evans

I know audio and video is sync in Fcp x, but is anoying when listen live, I've never got a problem on my pxw x70 but i sold a year ago. I would like to know is ax100 has the same problem audio delay like ax53

I will check for you as I have both. Maybe tomorrow though as I am busy this evening.

Ron Evans

All my cameras are the same with the sound in sync with the video on the LCD. There is no option to have no delay in the sound. By the way there is also a processing delay for the video displayed on the LCD. The AX100 is exactly the same as the AX53.

Ron Evans

Just tested my AX53 with Sennheiser HD 280 pro headphones and there is an echo while monitoring the sound. On playback the sound recording is fine. I also test it with a external mic. A Sennheiser K6/ME66 mic, again same problem but does not effect the recording.

Its is like you are getting a return signal from the delayed recording and hearing the live mic at a higher level for the live mic at the same time.

The only option is too trust your skills. Let go, trust your feelings and believe in the force.

What you are seeing on the LCD and hearing is the recorded/processed signal so there will be a delay due to the processing of the video and audio. The echo is from the fact you are hearing the recorded signal and your headphones do no fully insulate the live audio. With my closed back headphones if I press them to my ears then the effect is almost eliminated.

Ron Evans

Thank you guys for answers and help. it's true, delay is not affecting playback,