I have a wedding next month at a church where the aisle is about 150 feet. The prob, I'm only allowed to film from the balcony. (Church rules). I'm using gl2's right now (hoping to upgrade soon) but that's what I have to work with. I'm going to need either a telephoto lens attachment or I've heard people talk about doublers to add on. Does anyone have any recommendations on what works well for them?

pardon my ignorance, but what's a doubler?

It's an attachment lens that just doubles the zoom your camera already has.

Jennifer,

The balcony is in the back of the church. I don't think you can get a good shot from that position, given the distance. Is there another camera shooting the groom's perspective? If not, I would suggest that you try to mix in with the guests. That way you can get a guest's POV of the bride coming in. Don't share your plan with the priest though.

p.s. Have someone close the doors behind the bride, so that you wouldn't have back light problem.

Jason

No cameras (video or still) are allowed to be on the main floor during the ceremony, whether you are a guest or professional. This church is very strict, they can't even have bubbles or rice or anything afterwards, they can't even have a receiving line...... If I leave the balcony I'll probably be escorted out, haha. That's my dilema, it's up in the balcony or nothing.....

How about the possibility of putting a small, unmanned camera on sticks somewhere closer behind a fake tree or column or something? Probably not allowed I imagine, but worth asking about if you haven't already.

I've used a doubler on my PD170, and the final footage is ok. It's not very sharp, and some saturation is gone, but it's better than having no video at all. The b&g will have to take what they can get given the strict circumstances you have to work under.

How about renting an XL-1/s/2? I don't know if you have any rental opportunities where you are, but they both have 20x lenses that would do a great job without any additional glass. Just a thought.

Good luck!

Dan

The gl2 has the 20x optical zoom so I'll have a descent wide shot. I was just wondering how those doublers worked. I figured they lost a little quality, but didn't know if it was still worth looking into.

I'm sorry... I did read that you had a GL-2, but was thinking of my PD170's 12x when suggesting the 20x xl-1 rental.

Anyhow, the footage is very useable, but noticibly more degraded the more zoomed in you are, especially in lower light. If the light is bright and strong, it will look pretty good. With the Century Optics tele I used, the degredation I noticed most was a loss of sharpness. I did lose some saturation also, but I worked with that in post and it looked great. The loss of sharpness I tried hiding with some highlight glow effects, and it helped. Also, you better have a very steady tripod with one of those on your lens.

I think it's definitely worth looking into. I suggest using a tele-x on just one camera. Then if you like the footage, use a lot of it in your edit. If not, rely on the other camera more and use the tighter footage for just the more important moments.

Dan

Thanks for the info, very helpful!!

No cameras (video or still) are allowed to be on the main floor during the ceremony, whether you are a guest or professional. This church is very strict, they can't even have bubbles or rice or anything afterwards, they can't even have a receiving line...... If I leave the balcony I'll probably be escorted out, haha. That's my dilema, it's up in the balcony or nothing.....
wow, not even for the guests? in this case, just chill out at the balcony and get the shots you can. the ceremony is a wash for both photos and video, so it's not your fault. 20x should be enough to get a wide, but you might not be able to get any closer. and now that i know what a doubler is, i actually use one (clip-on wide angle for the vx). i like it a lot. i have never used a doubler to increase zoom, however, so i have no experience with that.

imho, you'll just have to live with so-so ceremony coverage and make up for it in the prep, photo session and reception shots. i hope the shoot goes well!

It seems to me that your major problem is camera position instead of, or in addition to, distance. At 150 ft with my GL1 at 20x, the width of the image is about 7 feet, a fairly tight shot. With a 2X tele-extender, you'll have a tighter shot, but a tighter shot of the backs of people. You could do your own experiment with your camera at 15 ft. Measure the width of the field and multiply by 10.

Talk to the bride and groom so they'll know what to expect. Then, as someone else said, just don't worry about the ceremony coverage.

This sounds like one time when the 20x zoom on the Canons will come in handy. I don't think I'd worry too much about trying to modify that, since any additional glass you add to your lens (like a doubler) may detract from image quality more than it will add in terms of tighter shots. If you do decide to use a lens doubler, only do so on one camera so the other one gets a cleaner shot. Plus the camera would have to be ultra rock-solid at 40x magnification, and even at 20x that could be a problem.

My suggestion would be to set up one camera at either corner of the balcony so you get different angles on the bride's and groom's faces from those positions, and pretty much leave it at that. At the end of the ceremony grab one camera and follow the couple outside, so you can at least get some close up shots of them hugging people right after the ceremony.

If you use a doubler you might want to think about bringing a field monitor. I expect your depth of field will be very narrow, a monitor might help you focus.

Use manual focus with that much zoom! I know my cams tend to wonder in and out on AF, the more I zoom.

Jennifer,

which church? Sounds like First Pres...

Also, a 2x adapter is going to cost you an f stop or 2... Just so ya know.

meh, i wouldnt bother going out of ur way to accomodate the priest.. no offense and this HAS been discussed before but you are there for THE COUPLE not the priest..

u should ask these questions -
"where will the photographer be allocated? " (I bet the photographer is allowed to roam... if not, he would at least be given a spot to shoot from... argue this point if u need to )
"How much time will i have to set up before the ceremony begins?" (reason u ask this is that from the sound of it they may not wnat u to be in there until 5mins before it starts.. or if ur lucky when the guests arrive...
"Can the groom wear a Lav Mic? " (and if hes not allowed to wear one, plant on on the inside of his jacket anyway...)
"Can i stand in the aisle during the ceremony once the bride arrives, as this way we can film what the guests see as opposd to shooting from a risky distance" (DONT tell the priest u can zoom 20x... or whatever... this give him more ammunition...

Yeah sure these are guerilla tactics, but hell, your there to do a friggin job...
if i ever came across a church like this, and noone ants to play ball with me, i would seriously reconsider the job. Its nto worth the hassle..

only recently did i shoot an outdoor wedding and the photographer and myself were out the from of the entrance waiting for the limo.. The bride had said that her entrance would be different, but as i wasnt shooting her that morning, i called her. She was in a mood and didnt want to speak to anyone, however this critical information wasnt passed on to me, or the Photog, so we are waiting for these cars to arrive which they never did..
turns out they came in from a side entrance which was about a 5 minute walk away from the actual entrance...

so then out comes a guest.. and tells us that everyone ios already there and the proceedings had already started..
Now i had been at the location now for 2 hours before the bride arrived.. the bride was an hour late to the venue, so in effect i had ben there an hour before the ceremony..
No NOT ONE of the bridal party on the day had told us ANYTHING... we were clear when we left the ceremony location as to what we were doing, but we missed the entry...
So whos at fault here??
When a call is made and noone wants to communicate simply due to being in a "mood" or the bridal party, who were advised as to our location on the day to give us a heads up or knew where to find us in case of disaster..

in the end we ended up reshooting her entrance (she and her girls Danced down the aisle... the groom wasnt impressed and was clearly embaressed.
But whats the point m tryin to make here.. ??
Communication..

You can do your damned mightiest to get the shots you need, but if people dont tell you shit, you can forget the years of experience and all the training youve ever had, coz in times like this, that dont mean jackshit.
In our case, the groom DIDNT want the dance reshot, but we persisted.. in the end we won, not for "our shot" but for the fact that THIS WAS HOW SHE CAME IN... if it was traditional, id jsut reshoot some headshots walking down the aisle and fix it.. but this was trippy...
i said to them that if my call was answered this morning, i would have KNOWN where and at least have an idea where they were with time. We had no idea so we shot from the hip...
On top of that the bride was late by an hour, so we waited at the main gate, where most wedding cars stop. This didnt happen.
Now in your case, i would DEFINATELY make it clear to them that you will endevour to get the best bpossible footage, however, without communication BEFORE the ceremony about where you will be and what you will be doing, you cant be held liable for the loss of a shot or for inferior footage.
If anyone here has seen my contract (most of you have) you will see to how much detail in go into...

the worse thing about situations like this is the fact that in the end, the video loses out...
Ive said this before and ill say it again, until WE change ppls attitudes to what we do and how we do it, then this sort of crappy treatment will continue..

good luck with the shoot, personally if theyre that adamant about throwing you on top of a balcony that far from the proceedings, id either sit in the aisle as a guest and point a camera to where i need to shoot, or simply record audio only, and get photos from the photographer and create a slideshow with their vows as a voiceover and and some simple music as a timepiece..

Oh one final though, i bet $100 that a guest (ANY GUEST) WILL have a video camera and they WILL shoot... Im sure that irrespective of the rules given, that the proceedings will not stop to ask the guest to stop shooting..
alternatively, id ditch the job, or ask the couple to try somewhere else, or with another officiant....
this has to be one of the biggest crocks of shite ive ever come across and the more we as professionas put up with it, the more it will occur...

ummm yes, well covered subject indeed! Peter & I (& others) have been outspoken on this one. ...and Jen, believe it or not, I bet there are other videographers that have been given more access than you. If you say - "no, those are the house rules." Undoubtably, it would shock you to know that those house rules have likely been different for different videographers.

My tactics for any known restrictive venue is to NOT attend the rehearsal (which roll out the red carpet for restrictions) and to set up before the ceremony, as late as possible so that it's up to the officiant or clergy to go out of their way to laydown restrictions at the last minute. I also advise my customers to not talk about video with the church, don't bring it up, let them bring it up, because if you bring it up then you are making an issue of it.

Two weeks ago I had a priest run up to me right before the prossesional was about to start to tell me I couldn't be in the center isle... he said "you really can't be there - it will be distracting to everyone." and I quilckly informed him "everyone will be watching the bride, not me. When the bride arrives at the alter I always move out of the way and to the side. I won't even be noticed. I've shot 25 Catholic weddings this same way, this year. You can trust me, I won't even be noticed." He did not have time to argue the point further and the ceremony began. The bride and her dad were very emotional, Dad had tears during the walk and Bride was tearing up just before the hand off. My camera was about 3ft away. No doubt in my mind that this would have been missed had I not been aggressive enough to fight for my customer. My goal is always to do the best job I can for my customers. Other videographers had been heavily restricted at this venue, no doubt.

well, funny thing is i havent had this problem.. actualy i had a priest tell me to stand on a raised lectern behind him to shoot.. coz he didnt want anyone in front of him.. I was a lil shocked at that as i was clearly far more visible to the guest than i woul have been had i been on the side..
But this is what he wanted and it worked, so i did it..

I may come across like an arrogant prick here, but in the end, i, like the rest of us are doing what we can to satisfy our customers..

I havent had issues with priests, and to be honest, im too polite for them to WANT to boss me around, as im usually there before anyone and fawning over the priests explaining what i will be doing and where i will be and how discrete we are.

what im saying here is that when u DO come across this, the approach is exactly as you have described..
hell weve been doign this long enough to know what needs doing without pissng people off.. hell its why we ge paid.. but in the end, its what we do with what is given..

Jennifer,

which church? Sounds like First Pres...

Also, a 2x adapter is going to cost you an f stop or 2... Just so ya know.

Yep, that's the one. Beautiful church.....

The wedding was this past weekend and the 20x optical was actually more than enough zoom. It turned out wonderful. As far as the church rules, when you first walk in there is a posted sign that says no pictures or video is to be taken in the sanctuary. They actually make an exception to this rule for weddings and that's why we were allowed in the balcony. A church worker actually stood in front of the sanctuary doors on the main floor the whole time to make sure that neither I or the photographer snuck in during the ceremony so there was no way around this. I respected that and even though I was limited to one angle from the back, the couple was ok with this. I'm sure they'd rather have a one angle back shot than no video at all. :)

No cameras (video or still) are allowed to be on the main floor during the ceremony, whether you are a guest or professional. This church is very strict, they can't even have bubbles or rice or anything afterwards, they can't even have a receiving line...... If I leave the balcony I'll probably be escorted out, haha. That's my dilema, it's up in the balcony or nothing.....

Sorry, missed the last post where the event was this pas weekend, shame! Forget my advice that you're about to read!

OK solution, burn down the church, make the couple move to a new venue and let you pick the location which is photography friendly!

OK now really, call the church and ask to speak to the real person in charge, find out who else has shot there and call them and find out if they played by the rules or what they did to break them. Make sure that your wedding couple understands what is going on and it might even be in their best interest to make a tough decision on this venue or they will have to call the location as well and complain.

Finally, setup very close to the alter, once the ceremony starts, get in position where you want to be to get the best shot, they are not going to stop the wedding because you got where they told you not to go. You might not shoot there again but after you let the shooting community know the way this place treats shooters, couples will likely not want to book there.

Best of luck, and most important, get names of who has been there and what they have done, there is no way that you're going to get a GREAT wedding video shooting from the back of the house.

Miguel