Hi there!

I'm considering the FS5 for ENG work. Is there anybody here that does that? In that case what codecs do you use and do you find the workflow to a finished product smooth?

I use FCP to edit and as time often is of the essence it's a huge plus if the import is fast and files not too big.

Thank you.

With AVC or XAVC and FCP X I think you'd be okay. It's just a copy of the files and they edit straightaway.

IMHO the camera isn't really designed for ENG, but if you can overcome that, the edit shouldn't present a problem.

Perhaps it's not ideal but my bosses prefer this "look" so although I have a Panasonic they prefer I use my Canon 6D. (Not having XLR or be able to set sound levels is a pain.) So i reckon this would be a huge step up, plus I can use my Canon lenses.

Thanks for the input Mike.

Don't you think the FS7 would be the more obvious choice for ENG? In other words: why choose the FS5 over the FS7 for ENG?

If size or weight is the argument: I have found that -unless you shoot with the kitlens- the camera decked out with mics/receivers/batteries (not to mention lights) is too heavy to do handheld work for extended periods.

The FS7 is made for shoulderwork.

Yes, I can see your point there but since I travel a lot all the time I think it's more important to keep it small since I am the one that has to carry all the equipment. The smaller cards that you can put straight in the computer also appeals to me a lot.
It's also quite rare that I have to have the camera up and recording for looong times.

I understand. I edit on an iMac 5K (year old) with FCP X and it's fine.

Hi Alfred,

As mentioned, FS5 gets front heavy really easily with anything other than something like the super light Sony 18-105mm G F4 kit lens on it. This tends to put a twisting force onto your right hand - but not uncomfortably so (as after all, you'll have your left hand on the lens for focus control etc.). I think if I was running round all day with a Metabones and my Canon 70-200mm F4 IS (i.e. not the much bigger and heavy F2.8!) I would start to notice it though. It's slightly front heavy with my Canon 17-55mm F2.8 IS (which gains some much needed reach with the superb Clear Image Zoom) but still balanced/super light with my Canon 10-22mm F3.5. Exposure control via the variable ND is fantastically useful for fast changing situations like in Run-n-Gun.

It's not the same S35 sensor "look" - but if you need something really small for ENG and travel what about the Sony X70? Not saying this is right for you - but just playing devil's advocate so you think about all likely options. You don't really need 4K I assume, so a (non-4K upgraded) X70 is much cheaper (and even with the 4K option is still about half the price of the, currently, rather expensive FS5).

Also remember that of all current offerings, if you had a station that only wanted legacy XDCAM and you were in no time crunch to transcode, the FS7 is the only option. X70 doesn't even have legacy XDCAM.

I've used ours with a Nanoflash, 50-mbit XDCam MXF, and that keeps the whole kit manageable as the Nano is small plus I can take it as carry on with most airlines. Nano won't do 1080 50p but if it's for broadcast what they mainly want down here is still 50-mbit 1080i MXF. Most of my corporate work is for the web and so most of that is 720p 50p which the Nano handles fine. Or I can use the Video Assist which of course can give us ProRes 1080 50p for the Apple crowd some of who are having issues with XAVC-L 1080 50p.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Yeah the x70 won't really fit the bill. I have a similar Pana one and they don't like the "look" of it. They prefer the DSLR look, which I imagine we'll get from the FS5 but with proper XLR, SDI and HDMI for live purposes.
They need it to do, "XDCAMHD422 50Mbit/s", and with the Canon lenses I have and the super booster, it seems like a very nice little package.
If it get's front heavy I might get some relief putting it on top of a "reversed" backpack. That has helped me in the past...

FS5 will NOT encode XDCAM 50 Mbps 4.2.2...even though it has the XDCAM monica on it's side.

It will record the more modern XAVC-Long GoP at 50Mbps 4.2.2 codec at 10-bit (in HD) - or 100Mbps 4.2.0 in 8-bit for QFHD - but not everyone is up to speed with NLE support for the XAVC-L codec - and it needs beefy computers to handle.

Or, if you are really desperate, the FS5 can also record AVCHD at 24Mbps.

That's it for on-board codecs with the FS5 - if you need XDCAM then you're out of luck - or you need to use an external recorder to get something more edit friendly (but then you might as well buy an FS7).

Oh it won't? Thanks Andy!

I'm not really in the know about all the different codecs to tell you the truth. Can you use MPEG Streamclip to export it to a file that the computers (machines..?) back at broadcast central can handle then?
Or, what are they really after? Quality insurance that the image is good enough or is it other broadcast issues? (I'm never at the office so I have no idea how these things work there...)

And, does it really matter if you shoot 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 when color correction seldom happens since there's no time for it? You have to get it right straight away or at the most use a 3-color-way filter to clean something up.

Or am I confused?

Yeah, your options go down to the FS7, cause the FS5 does not support legacy XDCAM.

4:2:2 matters for interlaced video, which is what you're delivering to the station. The only time it doesn't matter is if you're 4G streaming the footage back to the station in which case it's automatically 4:2:0.

I know ENG time crunches, and you definitely won't have time to transcode. (XAVC-L to anything else with an average laptop is going to take too long for the stations to tolerate.)

The FS7 is currently the stand-out option at the moment.

Or, what are they really after?

Why don't you ask the client you are supposed to deliver to and then choose your camera? You say they now prefer your 6D footage, why do they need xdcamhd422 now?

Yes, sorry I wasn't really clear there. I freelance, and the station I work for now are happy with 6D footage but another station I'm hoping to get work from says they need the xdcamhd422. The guy responsible though doesn't know so he talks to tech people (who I have no access to...)
But since the stations are similar in every way I can't imagine that what works for one doesn't for the other UNLESS they have a completely different transcoding system that requires something else. (And there I'm truly out of depth, I have no idea what happens to the footage once I send it to the station.)

I confess I work with this but this greek to me... "XDCAMHD422 50Mbit/s in a MXF OP1a-wrapper". Apparently the F5 does this? How far away is the FS5 of doing this? Sorry bad question I guess? Either it does or it doesn't?

You mention that you edit with FCP. You can import XAVC-L into FCP X pretty easily, plus you also have the option to Optimise Media on Import to make the footage even easier to edit with. Transcoding really doesn't take very long at all unless you have a very low spec laptop or computer. If you work in the world of ENG, it's very unlikely that you'll have reams and reams of stuff to import/send at any one time.

FCP X, like Avid and I'm sure other NLE systems, also has the option to Export/Share the material with a XDCam OPA-1A (MXF) wrapper which many broadcasters like to work with. Alternatively, a Pro Res .mov file is also used by a lot of people too.

If you FTP material to a station, you can do all this before you send it to them, for example, so they can work with it straightaway.

So, in a nutshell, it shouldn't be a problem.

You mention that you edit with FCP. You can import XAVC-L into FCP X pretty easily, plus you also have the option to Optimise Media on Import to make the footage even easier to edit with. Transcoding really doesn't take very long at all unless you have a very low spec laptop or computer. If you work in the world of ENG, it's very unlikely that you'll have reams and reams of stuff to import/send at any one time.

FCP X, like Avid and I'm sure other NLE systems, also has the option to Export/Share the material with a XDCam OPA-1A (MXF) wrapper which many broadcasters like to work with. Alternatively, a Pro Res .mov file is also used by a lot of people too.

If you FTP material to a station, you can do all this before you send it to them, for example, so they can work with it straightaway.

So, in a nutshell, it shouldn't be a problem.

Just be aware that there is a problem with FCPX and the FS5 UHD footage. It gets clipped in FCPX at 100 ire. This will be fixed in an upcoming update to QT or FCPX. I had a long talk with Apple FCPX techies about this yesterday, they are aware of the problem. This does not happen in Resolve. It may be fixed in a week or it could take 6 months. The FS5 is not a listed approved camera yet for FCPX. It is just a meta tag in the footage that FCPX is reading wrong.

My current work around is to shoot Cine2 it only records up to 100 ire. Or you can transcode using something like Resolve that does not clip the highlights.

I am just saying be aware of this, because if you import and have FCPX create the ProRes footage you will loose everything above 100 ire.

THIS IS ONLY IN UHD. HD is fine. Also if you shoot log it should not be a problem because it is very rare to need above 100ire then.

Nope, the FS5 simply cannot do the old MPEG-2 XDCAM HD422 cause the chip is not present in the camera itself. The FS7 can do it though.

Thanks a lot for all you input guys!

I work with FCP X occasionally and I have it on my laptop (2.6 ghz i5) but except for the initial import I'm just faster on FCP 7 so that's what I've preferred to work with. (My fault completely for not having made the switch earlier.) I've also had a couple of instances where FCPX hasn't been able to import a file (corrupt) but FCP 7 was fine with the file... Is that common?

Thanks Olaf, very useful info. I sort of presumed Alfred would be in HD as I doubt there are many/any news organisations that broadcast in 4K.
Jack, even though the FS5 doesn't record XDCam 4:2:2 natively, it's straightforward enough to ingest and edit the footage in your NLE of choice and then export it in a MXF OP-1A wrapper which would be then fit the bill.
Alternatively many news organisations in the UK, at least, will take a SD card from any type of camera and then transcode it to a format that they use anyway (.mxf or .mov for example), so again no major problem.

Thanks for that Kevin!

Yes, UHD is not an issue for this kind of work but very good to know if one does something else!

It also sounds good that it can be exported (which I suspected but didn't know for sure) to the "right" format that they want.

Thanks for all you help!

Just got my FS5 and my metabones, Canon 24-105L combo doesn't seem to work with the steady feature... Does anybody else have this problem? It actually DOES work, it just doesn't say so with the icons on screen...

And, FCP 7 doesn't work with the new codecs right or is there a work around? (Working with sound in FCP X is a nightmare for me...)