From what I understand it's a matter of not installing KB3035583?

I'm now reinstalling Windows 10 for the second time - a perfectly stable Windows 7 machine now unable to perform without BSOD - and this was a complete clean install. Brand new C: drive, brand new Windows 10 on USB stick. I don't mind the look and the feel of 10, but my old MAYA internal PCI card refuses to work despite the drivers saying the are 10 compatible, and all in all, it's a mess. At the moment it's reinstalling, but what is the settings it will add an extra windows version rather than repair or repair the old on - the options are very unclear. I have two weeks to fix it and make it stable. Drivers that appear in device manager as working, but don't and others that appear to install and don't appear. VSTi's that crash. I really wish I'd not started. A drive died - and that was the only reason for updating. I'd left the Windows 7 discs at home, so Amazon was the quickest option, but perhaps, a silly one!

How old is the pc you are installing it on? Your harddrive might be new but maybe your motherboard is not win 10 compatible? I always make a image from my OS and programs right after the first install and when I"m sure it's stable so whenever I test something and if it goes completely wrong I can have a stable OS running within 20 or so minutes.

Wow. Microsoft is becoming a real jerk. It will eventually become worthwhile to invest in separate networking hardware to block access from / to their upgrade push site.

Andrew

They are just copying Apple and Android.

Ron Evans

How old is the pc you are installing it on? Your harddrive might be new but maybe your motherboard is not win 10 compatible? .

Isn't Win10 supposed to perform a full compatibility scan before it installs? At least that's what the Win10 upgrade widget assured me before I proceeded with the upgrade:

....Well I took the plunge last night. Created a full disc image back-up of the Win7 system before installing the Win10 update widget (KB3035583). Rebooted and opened the widget, which reported that my PC is compatible for upgrade. I requested a full compatibility report only to be told that was not possible at this time( ?) but that on proceeding to upgrade a full compatibility scan would be performed before installation.

Went ahead with the upgrade now option....

Actually, I never saw any "full" compatibility report or message of any kind. It just proceeded to the upgrade installation, which I assumed to mean that there were no incompatibilities.
Feel sorry for you Paul; makes my upgrade experience seem like a minor inconvenience. Just trying to understand:

I'm now reinstalling Windows 10 for the second time - a perfectly stable Windows 7 machine now unable to perform without BSOD - and this was a complete clean install. Brand new C: drive, brand new Windows 10 on USB stick.

So, the first Win10 installation was not via the upgrade widget then? Thought you had to go through the upgrade process first in order to be able to perform a clean (re)install?

All I can say is that this is not happening to any of my 3 Win 7 PC's. No prompts to upgrade etc. Nothing. So not sure where the information in the Forbes article comes from but it is not happening to my PC's.

Ron Evans

edit see if this helps. http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/how-stop-windows-10-upgrade-downloading-your-system

This pop-up message only and always appears upon signing out from Outlook, and irrespective of whether I use IE or Firefox. It does not appear when I access Outlook via Firefox on a Linux desktop (same PC, different drive) and neither does it appear on my wife's PC, which is still running Vista. So, it's not some generic message/ad.

This is the first Win10 upgrade pop-up ad/nag I have encountered on this PC. I only installed the KB3035583 update widget just before performing the upgrade, and now, after rolling back to Win7 and then restoring a backup made before installing KB3035583, my PC is back to how it was....or so I think. The KB3035583 is still sitting there in the list of 'Optional' windows updates that have not been installed.

So what is triggering this pop-up message on signing out from Outlook then? Does Outlook simply detect that I am not browsing with Microsoft Edge, or does it prompt a "deeper" scan of my PC, possibly to detect whether the KB3035583 update is installed or not i.e. if they can't nag me via the KB3035583 upgrade widget, they can do so through Outlook. Like I said, what seemed odd was that just before this pop-up first appeared, I had difficulty signing in to Outlook - would hang for a long period before slowly opening. Now I have no problem signing in - so maybe the stalling was due to MS scanning my PC and logging it's findings.

Sorry to keep harping on about this silly and seemingly innocuous 'pop-up', but it is important. The fact that MS have found another way (that is both both covert and intrusive) to induce me to upgrade to Win10, leaves me wondering what other coercions and marketing tricks will be brought to bare on (perceived) stubborn Win7 "last standers" in the coming months to accept an "offer that (ultimately) you can't refuse". And really, the only reason I did "decline" at this point was because of LAN access issues that are important to the way I work. Had everything been hunky-dory I'd probably now be saying "Hey, come on, dive-in, the water's lovely".

As to why you are not seeing this message Ron on your Win7 PC's - maybe you are just not using Outlook ? Or maybe I've been... gasp!....singled out.

Edit: Regarding the source of the information in the Forbes article. The article states that it came from Forbes contributor Gordon Kelly and provides a link to another article (from Dec 16th) by him:

Forbes Welcome (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/12/16/microsoft-windows-10-free-upgrades-worse/)

Again, if the link opens to the Forbes welcome page, click on the top-right (countdown) 'Proceed to Site' button to open the article.

Quite a scathing introduction, quote:

"Choice. After all the software improvements, promotional offers and good intentions, ‘choice’ is the big factor Microsoft (MSFT -0.24%) forgot to consider with Windows 10. Falling adoption rates have seen the company’s initial smugness evolve into incredulity and increasingly dirty tactics and now Microsoft appears to have forgotten about respecting choice entirely because life for Windows 7 and Windows 8 users is about to get a lot worse…"

I don't get these update messages on my win 7 pc but that's because I haven't applied a windows update in months and my pc is configured not to look for updates by itself, how does this message appear when you log out of outlook?

As per the screen shot I attached in Post #39 above:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-discussion/530540-windows-10-free-3.html#post1905766

There's the pop-up and also an add behind it in the MSN window. Both disappear with a click of the X on the pop-up. But that's not the point.

No I do not use Outlook. I use Thunderbird as my mail program and source is Rogers Yahoo pop3 server. Browser is Firefox.

Ron Evans

Well that would likely explain why you're not seeing the pop-up nag.

Edit: Just saw this:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/microsoft-does-it-right-with-w-10-reminders-on-msn/049ff321-8a68-4895-a002-99741783946a?auth=1

This is the same pop-up I am referring to. How is this "perfectly appropriate given that many people have Hotmail / Live / Outlook logons". No it's not.

It is I guess because outlook can be used for free so MS can push advertisement right in your face if they want to, only the way they try to achieve this is questionable since it seems to require installing something on your pc without your knowlegde. I for instance am not getting this pop up when I log out of outlook on win 7 pro and the reason why could be that I haven't installed a update in months.
MS approach will have a opposite effect of what they trying to achieve, they are just being too aggressive but who can blame them, they probably need this in order to survive. It reminds me of the Borg in Star Trek; "Resistance Is Futile" and we all will be assimilated, whether we want it or not :D

MS approach will have a opposite effect of what they trying to achieve, they are just being too aggressive but who can blame them, they probably need this in order to survive.

Exactly that......except maybe for the "who can blame them bit" ;>)

Reminds me of the Martha Reeves song "Nowhere to run Baby, nowhere to hide....da,da,da"

When Apple cut off it's industry standard editing program final cut pro they didn't ask their users if they where ok with that, they just do it because they found other ways to make even more money, MS doesn't care about the user either, they also have to make money and because windows users are not locked into a closed system they tend hold on longer to what works but that doesn't do MS any good so they have to be more aggressive to try to lock people into having no choice, Like apple did from the start, only Apple doesn't need to be so sneaky to try to convince their users they need to move on, they never have given them much choice so people are used to that and they are also very good in convincing their users that their next thing is always better :)

Spot on again Noa.

Maybe Microsoft saw how Adobe pressured their users over to the subscription model, and see it as the future when users aren't in as much pain and needing to upgrade any more.

Andrew

Yes, I think that's where it's heading too......all up in the "cloud".

There is a saying: If it is free then you are the product.

Andrew

How true....and, arguably, even if you are paying it's still no better. The new business paradigm.

Interesting article, and more particularly the embedded radio interview with Microsoft Marketing Chief Chris Capossela:

Microsoft explains why it's pushing Windows 10 so aggressively (spoiler: it's to keep you safe) (http://betanews.com/2015/12/29/microsoft-explains-why-its-pushing-windows-10-so-aggressively-spoiler-its-to-keep-you-safe/)

Interpret his comments how you will.

The part that gets me is the blatant scaremongering he gets across by first stating that Windows 7 users when buying new hardware are going to be finding that their (emphasized "ten-year old ") OS is no longer compatible, which he then follows up with an assurance that Microsoft is working closely with it's hardware partners to ensure full compatibility with Windows 10. Shameful tactics if you ask me.

I've upgraded to win 10 on three computers and then had to go an turn off all the new 'features' than did a sweep with O&O ShutUp10 which essentially can lock down you PC from Microsoft other than unplugging from the internet.
Theres a slight speed increase over win 7/8

[QUOTE=Bryan Worsley;1906229

The part that gets me is the blatant scaremongering he gets across by first stating that Windows 7 users when buying new hardware are going to be finding that their (emphasized "ten-year old ") OS is no longer compatible, which he then follows up with an assurance that Microsoft is working closely with it's hardware partners to ensure full compatibility with Windows 10. Shameful tactics if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

Well that was true for WIN7 too. I have a Dell 24" monitor with no supported drivers beyond WIN Vista, a HP Laser printer with no WIN7 drivers etc etc. And Ediius 6.08 will not work beyond WIN7 because of dongle drivers. By the way I can't get a heated steering wheel in my car fitted either. It is always the case that if you want the new stuff it usually means new hardware and software that work together. I have no problem with the intent of Microsoft but the attitude is not always acceptable but in a way no different to Apple or Google. You need new hardware and software to run the latest features on iOS or Android.

I intend to stay on WIN7 for both my editing PC's because they have hardware and software that will never get WIN10 drivers. So until I stop using them they will stay. However I will make myself a new PC in March and it will be WIN10. The 2 PC's I have running WIN10 seem to be faster than when they were on WIN7 and WIN8.1. I have used Shutup10 to turn almost everything off !! Don't use Outlook, Edge or Bing !!

Ron Evans

Well, if "Use Windows 7 at your peril" (which he actually says) is not scaremongering, I don't know what it is.

And it is a big deal, as reading between the lines, there is clear inference that Windows 10 will be the last 'licensed volume' and an effective springboard to their cloud-based model i.e. the "better and safer place"...for Microsoft.

Anyhow, for anyone not inclined to listen to the whole thing, the interview with Caposella kicks-off at about 8 minutes in. The specific topics covered that are relevant to this discussion are:

Cloud-based - 'freemium' vs 'premium' model (16-24 mins)

Windows 7 vs Windows 10 (27-32mins)

Privacy (32-35 mins)

Like I said, make of it what you will.

Don't use Outlook, Edge or Bing !!


I've taken to all browsing, and Skyping, in Linux.

Forbes Welcome (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/01/06/windows-10-spying-secrets-revealed/#2715e4857a0b145b39552fd5)

Again, interpret how you will.

Edit: As with the other Forbes articles - if the link opens to the Forbes welcome page, click on the top-right (countdown) 'Proceed to Site' button to open the article.

I prepared a 3 year old pc (my previous editing machine) with win10 for my wife and so far so good, during installation I didn't choose the express but advanced install where I allready shut off all "phone home" parts and then used shutup10 to close any other remaning doors. My wife's very pleased with win10, it runs smooth and all her older programs run without an issue. People just have to realize that once you go on the internet nothing is private anymore.

Windows 10 and privacy: Whom should you trust? | InfoWorld (http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987022/microsoft-windows/windows-10-and-privacy-whom-should-you-trust.html)

Would be interesting to know ShutUp10 does with that.

I just find it ridiculous state of affairs that one should have to resort to these measures.

I might not shut down every attempt but it does seem to close down quite a lot, in any case, I don't understand why people get so upset about this, it's wishful thinking that you can protect your privacy once you go online, if you want to be 100% in control then disconnect your pc from the internet.

It doesn't upset me at all. As both articles conclude I think it's more the lack of transparency that concerns a lot of people:

"But the time for transparency is running out. By 2018 Microsoft aims to have one billion devices running Windows 10 and with that comes truly global reach and insight. The world deserves to know exactly what it is signing up for…"

"If Microsoft wants to earn our trust, we need a lot more transparency and a lot less hand-waving".

Should these things not be brought to light?

The minute you are connected (or for that matter out and about in virtually any outpost of civilization), you are "exposed" to some degree...

Security is actually mostly an illusion, as the challenge to crack an uncrackable lock will always be "game on" to both nefarious sorts, and those who just like to take things apart and see how they work!

Accept the technology for what it will do for you, and be aware of the risks. Generally though, most people open their own "security holes" by their own actions. Things like responding to the nice Nigerian prince, sharing or using low grade passwords, downloading every piece of crapware that is offered.... etc., etc....

Aside from my old desktop that has some sort of problem that's keeping it from updating (identified, but haven't yet found a fix...), I've been switching to 10 across the board, and so far no problems aside from a few oddities (trackpad software for gestures is a bit finicky, and I've got a program or two where the scroll bars appear 100% black....). Overall, it's a faster OS, and somehow fairly easy to get used to (unlike 8/8.1 with the PlaySkool interface...).

Of course YMMV, and one always has to be aware of older programs that aren't being updated that may have "special" problems, but I'll happily take a "free" upgraded OS that makes my computers run faster and mostly better....

Now about that "Edge" browser....totally a piece of garbage, at least at this stage of development, use Chrome or IE! Some things aren't "new and improved", and Edge is one of them!

Accept the technology for what it will do for you, and be aware of the risks.

Which is precisely why I brought attention to that article.

Well I did something remarkably stupid...

I have a 6 year old laptop, which I rarely use anymore, but I thought let me upgrade it to Win 10 to test it out. Also, the laptop does have my Adobe CS4 software on there, which I've read mixed things about whether they work on 10 or not. It would be a good way to test it out. So I began the upgrade, took hours. First to download, then to install. Finally it was getting late, midnight on Saturday. My place is older so the electrical isn't all that great, and seeing those hoverboard fires this past holidays I had a slight fear of leaving it plugged in overnight. Plus, as I didn't expect it to take so long it was laying awkwardly & on my couch.

So, typically when I'd unplug the laptop it would switch over to battery mode. Maybe that's a Windows setting that doesn't work in boot mode, I dunno. So it was at about 71% installed, moving about 1 % per minute, but I thought I would unplug it from the outlet & either allow the battery to finish out, or move it into my kitchen where the outlets are a little stronger (washer/dryer) and less fabric/burnable material like carpeting, sofa etc.

Only, when I unplugged it, zoinks! It was off?! At first, I thought it was toast, and the electronics were fried. But I plugged it back in & it powered on, but its now stuck in limbo-land of not having Win 7 or Win 10, and I just get an endless loop of unable to start Win 7 & 'It looks like your already installing Win 10' (with no way to get back to finishing it). I downloaded a Win 7 & 10 boot disk, but neither worked & thats a bit beyond my scope on computer knowledge, but I was glad to have tried some of the things I was trying. Also spent about an hour with MS tech support, she was nice, but just reading from a script of "Start up your computer, do you have the Start menu?" Uhmmmm, no. I was hoping for some eureka! moment solution, something like pressing f10 to start in Safe mode or something, but it never came. It ended with I'm sorta screwed & blow it out & reinstall 7 again then upgrade to 10.

So, in the end I took it to a local Microsoft store. It's a waste, as like I said I hardly ever use it, but at this point after being so close & making such a stupid mistake I just want it completed & to check it out. Sucks it's so complicated now, for something so easy & all I needed to do was nothing. Oh well, I'm sure worse things could've happened to me that day, or maybe a fire could've started. So it's just a petty little nuisance. Plus, as I said it would've sucked if it was my main PC and this happened, so it was a learning experience for if I do want to go thru with the upgrade. TBH, probably not. They had sample PCs & laptops there while I was waiting, seemed good for personal fun use, but I don't think it's for me business wise. I like things more structured, like XP, not all floaty.

I have read that extremely long installation times can be caused by a in the BIOS activated 1.44 mb floppy disc, when this was set to "none" the installation time returned to normal, it also seems that pc's with special chipsets where affected by it (p35 and 45 from intel and 600/700 series from amd.)

They're at it again, now planting a Windows 10 upgrade hook in a critical windows update:

Windows patch KB 3139929: When a security update is not a security update | InfoWorld (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3042155/microsoft-windows/windows-patch-kb-3139929-when-a-security-update-is-not-a-security-update.html)

Despicable stuff indeed!

Is it not possible to uninstall IE and use Firefox or Chromium instead so the "security" patch is not needed? Just curious.


Dave

I trust Windows 10, like I trust Windows Vista, like I trust Common Core.... all from Mr. Gates who obviously wants to rule the world and still has Steve Jobs envy.

Despicable stuff indeed!

Is it not possible to uninstall IE and use Firefox or Chromium instead so the "security" patch is not needed? Just curious.


Dave

I'm honestly not sure what the ramifications of uninstalling IE are. I've preferred to take what I consider to be a passive avoidance approach for now. When I know I'm going to be just browsing, emailing or Skyping, I'll use Firefox in linux Mint. Otherwise, if I'm in Windows, Firefox only. And avoiding installing non-critical Optional updates, unless it is to fix a specific issue that I'm experiencing - as I have always done.

I just wonder now what's coming next. If Microsoft can get away with this, what's to stop them planting other trojan devices (which is what this is) in in any critical system update, as it suits their purpose and agenda, and I wouldn't at all put it past them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt#Microsoft

Further, Microsoft has a plan to disenfranshise your CPU --- removing support for processors after Skylake which would require Windows 10 to even function. The same for AMD processors:

Microsoft: Skylake owners must upgrade to Windows 10 within 18 months, future CPUs will require it | ExtremeTech (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/221389-microsoft-skylake-owners-must-upgrade-to-windows-10-within-18-months-future-cpus-will-require-latest-operating-systems)

Your legacy devices will, according to the article (which information is available in multiple places, it's not just an internet rumor) not have drivers available....or support for such things as USB3.1, etc. unless you drink the Microsoft kool-ade.

The concluding remarks in that article convey some sense of optimism that linux will still be an option, quote:

"Long-term, however, the trend is clear: Microsoft intends to move the entire Windows ecosystem to Windows 10, and those who prefer older versions of the operating system will either have to make do with current hardware or switch to Apple or Linux".

I would really like to believe that's true.

Amazing isn't it? The EU made a fuss about Internet Explorer being included in Windows because it was an almost monopoly situation, but I have yet to hear anything about this much worse situation from them.

Bryan, I am reasonably sure that the Linux and BSD developers will find ways to be compatible with whatever hardware turns up. I certainly hope so especially since, as you know, I only keep Windows (7) as a VM on my editing computer for running scoring software. Otherwise I use Linux for everything and I could do without the scoring software at a pinch.

My wife has Windows 8 or 8.1, she has kept Microsoft updates turned off since she got the machine and has yet to have any problems, just updating Firefox, Thunderbird and firewall, antivirus etc. now and then. I guess the crunch will come when something like Adobe Digital Editions (the main reason she sticks with Windows) gets updated and will no longer run on her machine and that will be a pile of sh*t I do not want to get involved in!

Dave

And now....

Windows 10 automatically installs without permission, complain users | Technology | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-10-automatically-installs-without-permission-complain-users)

BTW - I rolled back to a full-disc backup that I created the day before the March "Patch Tuesday" updates (as is now my habit) and went on to install all of the pending Critical updates except KB 3139929.

Further, Microsoft has a plan to disenfranshise your CPU --- removing support for processors after Skylake which would require Windows 10 to even function. The same for AMD processors:

Microsoft: Skylake owners must upgrade to Windows 10 within 18 months, future CPUs will require it | ExtremeTech (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/221389-microsoft-skylake-owners-must-upgrade-to-windows-10-within-18-months-future-cpus-will-require-latest-operating-systems)

Your legacy devices will, according to the article (which information is available in multiple places, it's not just an internet rumor) not have drivers available....or support for such things as USB3.1, etc. unless you drink the Microsoft kool-ade.

Well I support Microsoft for this. Why should they support new hardware with an old OS ? Creating drivers for lots of new hardware cost money and I think that should fall to the hardware manufacturer not Microsoft. If these hardware manufacturers do not want to do that then Microsoft shouldn't either. I have a HP laser printer with no driver support after Win XP !! Of no use to anyone I know !! If you buy a new PC with new features why would you expect it to work on an old OS ? Certainly true if you buy a Mac.

I have 2 PC's with WIN 10 now, loaded Shutup 10 and turned everything off except critical updates. They run great a little faster in my experience. I will make a new PC in a few weeks and it will certainly be WIN10.

Ron Evans

Microsoft backtracks on Windows 7 support deadline | Computerworld (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3046032/windows-pcs/microsoft-backtracks-on-windows-7-support-deadline.html)

Is the "free" Win 10 offer a bit like the "free" SIM chips in the 2014 movie 'Kingsman: The Secret Service"?

Probably but hey, it's free!

Like:
https://www.sharingalpha.com/free-so-there-is-nothing-to-sell/

Windows 10 'free' upgrades are only available to computers with Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 via their update mechanisms.

Finally ... a reason to like Windows Vista.

Andrew

Meanwhile, on the orchard side of the fence:

Apple designing its own iCloud servers to avoid surveillance | ZDNet (http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-designing-its-own-icloud-servers-to-avoid-surveillance/)

Amazing isn't it? The EU made a fuss about Internet Explorer being included in Windows because it was an almost monopoly situation, but I have yet to hear anything about this much worse situation from them.


I came across a post on another videography forum today (in a thread devoted to this very same subject) that brought attention to this article:

Windows 10 illegal: Richterin zwingt Microsoft zum Zwangs-Downgrade - CHIP (http://www.chip.de/news/Windows-10-illegal-Richterin-zwingt-Microsoft-zum-Zwangs-Downgrade_91392152.html)

I don't speak German, but the poster commented "Today (note the calendar date!) the German magazine CHIP reports that the free but forced Windows 10 upgrade has been ruled illegal due to unfair competition, and Microsoft was sentenced to have it revoked during the coming 3 months... Including altered GWX messages displaying the opposite content than before"

From what I understand will everyone that has used the automatic update from windows 7 or 8 to 10 be forced to downgrade to their previous OS. Only Microsoft cannot do that with users that did a clean install.

But hey, it's the first of April you know ;)

I'm still emotionally recovering from Windows Vista...........so I look at Windows 10 for free with great trepidation.

But hey, it's the first of April you know ;)

Always that possibility of course. Apparently, April Fools Day has it's origins in Germany.