Sony FS5 Update – Shipping this month, new firmware in January, and new video gives designer?s insights (http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/11/13/sony-fs5-update-shipping-this-month-new-firmware-in-january-and-new-video-gives-designers-insights/comment-page-1/#comment-4131)

So it looks like NewsShooter is saying that the FS5 will shut down HDMI output when recording is being done internally. This is a similar trick that Sony is employing on the RX10-II and A7S-II today.

This, of course, stops you from recording an event to an SD card and monitoring it with an external monitor.

I don't mind seeing this limitation on a DSLR camera but I think it's quite shameful to see this trick being used on a $5,000+ professional "XDCAM" camera.

Let's hope that this was just a simple mistake made by a Sony intern engineer. Maybe a senior guy will step in and get that problem (or decision) reversed.

I can't locate anything from Sony on the link you posted.

Alister Chapman mentions its going to be an issue with the first firmware ver 1 but will be fixed shortly after release with version 1.1 also if you have not watch this yet its loaded with very useful information on color, gamma and log

at 2:08:16 he speaks about the issue
Vocas Sony PXW-FS5 Introduction days presented by Alister Chapman - YouTube

It looks like the FS5 may be using the A7II processing but with the FS7/F5 sensor. This may go some way to explaining why at launch at least there will be no HDMI output when you go into record.

It has been officially announced by Sony that this limitation will exist with the firmware that will be in the cameras at release (cameras are arriving in dealers today). Firmware version 1.1 will restore the output while recording, so it's a temporary issue.

Thanks Alister, that is wonderful news!

I'm planning on a Jan/Feb purchase anyway.

Side note: Did you notice if the FS5 had that really useful EX1R / FS7. Depth of field/focus meter/scale on its monitor?

This still begs the question, after the update, will we be able to monitor on the camera LCD (or EVF for that matter) while viewing/recording to an external screen?

Here's a viewpoint on this issue.

Want to record 4K internally and record externally on the FS5, and use the built-in monitor or EVF? No can do say Sony (http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/11/18/want-to-record-4k-internally-and-record-externally-on-the-fs5-and-use-the-built-in-monitor-or-evf-no-can-do-say-sony/)

"It has been officially announced by Sony that this limitation will exist with the firmware that will be in the cameras at release (cameras are arriving in dealers today)"

Cameras arriving at dealers yesterday? In the U.S., too? :)

I wonder if you can record 4K to the cards and then monitor externally with 1080p?

This news is a disappointment and certainly made me pause and seriously consider cancelling my FS5 pre-order yesterday.

But in truth, the FS5 has (potentially) so many strengths for what I need it for. I could have had the FS5 in my hands today but wanted 24 hours to go through this new information before I spent my cash.

Right now, 90% of the time all I want/need (and importantly what my corporate clients want) is 4.2.2 10-bit Full HD. I want this capability in as small and nibble package as possible as this FS5 will spend some of it's time on my new Letus Helix Junior - I don't fancy handling larger cams like a FS7 on gimbals! I would have bought a C100 MkII if it had a proper codec as I love my C100 - but as it still has internal AVCHD 4.2.0 that kept me away.

The 4K on this FS5 is more of a "dip my toe in the 4K water thing" for me - and external recording is rarely something I like doing (but is sometimes a necessity on my C100, where I use the excellent Ninja Blade) although external monitoring sure can be very, very useful. I am hoping that if you record in HD on the FS5 and therefore output HD (i.e. not 4K) then you can do still multiple outputs on the FS5. I should know more when I receive my camera in the next day or so and I would hope Sony now go OUT OF THEIR WAY to make things as clear as possible.

Bottom line - if I really need "proper, professional 4K capabilities" in the next year or so I'll buy a FS7 (or, much more likely its natural successor, whoever might make it).

Finally, one cynical comment - interesting that Sony chose to keep this quiet until the FS5 started to ship - no doubt to keep the pre-orders and "buzz" going. They must have known about this limitation early in the design stages. Shame on you Sony. Note to self - I won't be pre-ordering my next camera, which may or may not be a Sony, whenever that point comes. Professionals don't like nasty surprises - especially when they severely limit functionality that one would consider the norm on a camera at this price point.

I wonder if you can record 4K to the cards and then monitor externally with 1080p?

Going from the Atomos video. Right now as it ships no, once you hit record the HDMI/SDI goes blank, next firmware upgrade sounds like you can pick 2.... external rec, internal rec, on camera display

Is this limitation only on 4K, or does it apply when shooting HD, also?

The external monitors are critical for our work. Trying to re-evaluate that order for 2 FS5s.

Tom,

My FS5 arrived half an hour ago. I hooked up my Atomos Ninja Blade and with the cam recording 1080p50 internally to SDXC card I still got HDMI out (presumably 1080/50i) to the Blade recording at 1080p25 (if I've understood it correctly) and was able to record on both. LCD stayed on throughout this very quick test. Did not get a record trigger to auto start recording on the Blade though (but that may be a menu setting I've overlooked/Blade was last used with my C100) - so I just made it record manually.

Picture below on my twitter feed - see also my picture of the C100 and FS5 side by side a few minutes earlier on my twitter feed too.

https://twitter.com/AndyKWilkinson/status/667717779215265793

Hope this helps - looks like it's a 4K restriction only…In HD things seem to work as we would expect.

FS5 is as well built as my PMW-300 and C100. Very nice feel to it - super light. Can't wait to get to grips with it and start shooting!

Thank you, wonder if you can shoot internal 4k and use the SDI to feed a monitor an HD signal with overlay

I just got my Sony FS5, was dismayed when I heard about this issue. I can't believe a professional camcorder that disables monitoring while recording 4K, making it very limited

I just did a quick test with my Zacuto Gratical EVF Indeed when in 4K mode hitting record disables the HDMI output. SDI output is worse, it disables the signal. At least with HDMI output you can get the info display from the FS5 if you have it set that way. (this all with the HDMI / SDI set to 1080P)

I have to say that I'm quite disappointed - this is unbelievable to me. I got this for 4K, not for the 10bit 4:2:2 HD which has been available in camcorders forever. The only hope is that Jeremy of Atomos is incorrect and that a firmware upgrade will resolve this issue. Unacceptable! I may be returning it

I'll be discussing it on my podcast, TechMove, TechMove is the Podcast all about Digital Filmmaking, Gear, Mac Computers, and iOS Devices from a Unique Perspective! (http://www.techmovepodcast.com) in the near future.

-Keith Moreau

I can confirm that the A7SII will record 4K internally and output a 1080 video feed via HDMI. The camera screen does go blank. I don't know if this helps anyone.

I'm afraid this even further solidifies my reasoning to not purchase this camera. A $5000 machine should not be selective of it's outputs like a DSLR. This completely cripples this camera for live 4K production with an on camera backup recording.

Even the cheaper PXW-Z100 doesn't do this.

My hope is that Sony will figure out a way to deal with this in an upcoming firmware update, particularly as dealers inform them that sales would be affected as potential customers find out about this limitation. Myself, I've kind of accepted it, after some tests and shoots, as there is still nothing out there that is as portable, ergonomic, and feature-rich as the FS5 right now.

From what I've just read on the internet, the upcoming firmware update will at least allow for info to be displayed on the FS5 internal screen(s) though the video might be black while recording 4K and outputting HDMI/SDI. This would probably work as in reality you don't often need the video from the internal screens while outputting to a monitor - however, it will be inconvenient if you want a client monitor or other remote output. You'll have to split the HDMI, etc.

I'll be discussing my experiences with the FS5 n an upcoming episode of my cinematography podcast, TechMove, www.techmove.com. -Keith

My hope is that Sony will figure out a way to deal with this in an upcoming firmware update, particularly as dealers inform them that sales would be affected as potential customers find out about this limitation. Myself, I've kind of accepted it, after some tests and shoots, as there is still nothing out there that is as portable, ergonomic, and feature-rich as the FS5 right now.

From what I've just read on the internet, the upcoming firmware update will at least allow for info to be displayed on the FS5 internal screen(s) though the video might be black while recording 4K and outputting HDMI/SDI. This would probably work as in reality you don't often need the video from the internal screens while outputting to a monitor - however, it will be inconvenient if you want a client monitor or other remote output. You'll have to split the HDMI, etc.

I'll be discussing my experiences with the FS5 n an upcoming episode of my cinematography podcast, TechMove, www.techmove.com. -Keith

If you use an Odyssey, it has loop through SDI and HDMI.

as there is still nothing out there that is as portable, ergonomic, and feature-rich as the FS5 right now. www.techmove.com. -Keith

Actually, as I stated in another thread, there is the JVC LS300. It is a cheaper, under-appreciated camera that, when properly exposed, creates excellent images in both 1080 (50mbps) and UHD (150mbps) - comparable to anything under 10 grand. However, as I also stated, it is a little on the flimsy side and doesn't inspire long-term confidence.

I had intended to get the FS5 as well, since I've owned Sonys and know they last forever (my soundman still has my old DSR300, and it works as well as the day I bought it)... but this issue is unacceptable. I use a Gratical almost exclusively for monitoring, but sometimes use the LCD so my partner can see the setup. This is truly a crippling defect - it's so unlike Sony in engineering design, but oh-so-like Sony in protection of their higher end offerings.

I have read a bunch of great things about the JVC... in my case the vary ND and slow-motion won me over

If you are on the fence (and have the time) I would try and wait for the fs5 firmware upgrade, seems like getting an HD output for your Gratical while recoding UHD and keeping the built in LCD working could be an option without hurting the higher end Sony cams or asking to much form its processors, sounds like the issue is outputting UHD and recording UHD while using the LCD is the issue.

Sony did a few silly little things to the FS5 so it would be confused with the higher end cameras, no wave form (kinda makes SLOG3 a pain) and not including "hooks" on the LCD so we can't toss a aftermarket loupe on it for shoulder mounting or just using in bright sun. I guess Sony thinks we like a challenge because like the FS700 we loose the histogram in slow-motion.

Yes, the monitoring thing is distressing. I recently got a SmallHD 501 in your scenario which would replace the 'built in' but deactivated screen in 4K recording mode, then a loop through to my Gratical HD and onto other monitors if necessary. I have a couple of Odyssey's so eventual Raw output is eagerly anticipated. I'll look into your JVC recommendation, I like the codec bitrate, I wish Sony's was a bit higher, and I'm noticing for some reason my Premiere Pro setup struggles a bit more from the FS5's 4K 100mbs long GOP codec than my A7sII 100mbs long GOP, not sure why... maybe the MXF wrappers in the FS5? -Keith

If you are interested in audio Podcast all about Cinematography and Gear from a Unique Perspective,*check out TechMove, TechMove is the Podcast all about Digital Filmmaking, Gear, Mac Computers, and iOS Devices from a Unique Perspective! (http://www.techmovepodcast.com)

Don't get me wrong - I'm not promoting the LS300 - in fact it took me three tries to get a good one (it took me two on the Pocket Camera)... But after settling in with the JVC, getting it set up right for shoulder use, I have really been won over - the after purchase 2.0 firmware added the Prime Zoom and histogram plus lower bit rate 4K and 2K options, which are nice in a pinch... And I have a set of Rokinon Cine MFTs that I like using on an S35 sensor (after two years with the S16 Pockets).

I originally wanted the Sony because of the size and weight, and Sony's rep for quality control (although I've never been a big fan of the out-of-the-box images I've seen). But I'll wait, as suggested, to see what shakes out with the 5... so far not so good in my opinion... If I do buy one I want the first one to be a keeper.