View Full Version : LS300 Honeymoon over
Steve Rosen October 10th, 2015, 07:08 PM Okay, as you probably know, I have been rooting for the LS300 - it's the only camera that ticks a lot of boxes. Today was my first day on a funded job with the camera, a complex documentary on tourism and economics.
After only an hour, the remote port stopped working (I use the camera handheld, shoulder mounted with a Gratical EVF and a remote MOVCAM handgrip to start/stop) which meant I had to fumble around for the start/stop button on the handle, and, as a result, missed some important content. I finished the day with my C100 which, luckily, I had in the Jeep as a backup.
I had ordered an LS300 in April from B&H and it was defective when it arrived (stuck on 6400 ISO), so I returned it for a refund - good for B&H.
In August I ordered another LS300 from B&H and it was also defective (the diopter on the EVF was not not adjustable). This time I asked for an exchange and received the camera I have today. Now THIS camera is also defective. I'm a pretty patient man, but this is beyond belief.
A message to JVC Pro - "Pro" means this is how I make my living!
Am I the only one who's having these problems?
Steve Rosen October 10th, 2015, 07:37 PM I need to add - the footage from the JVC is considerably better than the stuff I shot with the Canon, as good as anything I've seen from a any camera...
So I am so pissed off at JVC, they let some corporate CEO bean-counter undercut a potentially great product by shaving costs off of production and quality control. This happens so often which large companies, it's why BM is eating them alive.
Steve Rosen October 11th, 2015, 11:33 AM I've been posting back and forth between here, a dedicated JVC forum, and another AF100, so here's what's going on....
For those who are interested - I've been going through and cataloging my footage today. I am actually pretty amazed at how much better the LS300 is than the C100. It looks, given the same setting, that it has about 3-4 more stops dynamic range, much more detail in the highlights, and in general has a really pleasing look compared to the Canon. The C100 custom profile is one I set up two years ago, based on the WDR gamma. The JVC is J-Log1. I can't post pictures or footage because of the nature of this project, but take my word for it, the JVC beats the crap out of my (admittedly 2+ year old) Canon C100. Maybe the MKII is significantly better, but I doubt it from what I've seen, and it's still 4.2.0.
And BTW, the C100 blew the doors off my AF100 when I first bought it...
I'm going to practice all day today (Sunday, my day of restful football) starting and stopping the LS300 with the top handle switch. I used to do similar with my Eclair NPR in the far distant past, so it's no big deal. My only fear is that something else on the 300 will f__k up!
Another unheard message to JVC - You've got an excellent picture-taking box here guys, get your act together!
I forgot to add, the audio section on the JVC is a little better than the Canon's too, same mic (Rode NTG-3), identical settings, crisper response.
Glen Vandermolen October 12th, 2015, 05:57 AM Good info, sorry about your difficulties.
Maybe JVC will pick up on your post. I now there are JVC reps in this forum.
Dave Rochelle October 12th, 2015, 10:57 AM This is really disconcerting. It seems for every awesome benefit the LS300 offers, there's an equal liability. As frustrating as it is reading about them, I can only imagine how frustrating it is to you and others who are actually trying to use the camera in professional situations.
I have owned the old DV500, and the HD100 - and had similar experiences... they were innovative (even ground-breaking) tools capable of producing awesome content, but both failed me at critical times. I've been all Panasonic since the HD100 because of those issues. I so badly wanted the LS300 to buck that trend.
I have used my AF100 under all sorts of conditions, 3-6 days/week for 3 1/2 years and the only issue I've ever experienced is an occasional "incompatible battery" warning that goes away after pulling the battery and re-seating it. Its performance has been absolutely rock solid - and that's why I continue to use it with confidence despite the fact I know I could get better image quality elsewhere at this point.
I sooooo want to buy and love the LS300 though because I own a ton of m43 glass and now see the images it is capable of producing... but I'm totally with you Mac, it's incredibly frustrating that JVC might have put a little more quality into the construction but obviously didn't. I would gladly pay more for this camera if they had. If I had a complement of lenses that could be used with the Sony FS5, I would gladly shell out $5600 for that.
The quality issues that you're bringing up pretty much make the current LS300 a non-starter for me. What good are all the great features and excellent image quality if you cannot trust that the camera will function properly when you make your living using it? I'll keep hoping an LS300 "mark II" might address some of these concerns.
Steve Rosen October 12th, 2015, 12:59 PM Yeah, too bad - this is such a great design...
I've tried several times today to contact JVC Professional, telephone and email, with zero response - oh well, if wishes were horses.
Dave Bittner October 12th, 2015, 01:44 PM A common joke in the tape-based days was that JVC gear was inexpensive, but you needed to buy two of everything because one was always in the shop. The transition to tapeless has been kind to them, and we've had good luck with several JVC cameras in recent years, while still using Sony and Panasonic, too.
The LS300 is an amazing value, and I think it's important to consider it in that context. It's on the low end of 4K capable cameras, price wise, but provides features and image quality comparable to much more expensive competitors.
Yes, the build quality suffers. My unit had a sticky SD card slot, but it seems to have settled in. I don't like the design of the ND filter wheel, which gets in the way of lens adapters. And the built in LCD viewfinder is pretty bad.
The image quality is quite good, especially after the 2.0 update and the JVC log format addition. The innovative lens adaptability is remarkable. The fact that it has SDI and HDMI output is a big plus for me, especially in a camera in this price range.
Time will tell.
Steve Rosen October 12th, 2015, 05:02 PM Dave - I'm hoping this is one of those products, like some cars (1974 BMW 2002 comes to mind) that have quirks at first but after they're worked out run forever....
I've said it before - I didn't buy this camera because it was cheap - if it was priced in the Sony neighborhood I would still have bought it because of the innovation and the picture quality - well maybe I would have expected it to be $1000-$1500 cheaper, but still I would have paid more than $3500 for a solid camera.
I agree with the comment on the ND wheel. The first camera I got (I've had three remember) the first thing I noticed was the flimsy cheesy feeling little knob sticking out right where the aperture ring on an S16 lens would be.
By my second camera (4 months later) that wheel seemed a little more robust (maybe it was just that I remembered it worse than it was). And now that I've discovered how fun it is to work with light primes or MFT zooms with the Prime Zoom, I don't care anymore about using my S16s, so the wheel isn't in the way, and none of my adapters interfere with it - even the massive Aaton to MFT.
Apparently JVC takes Columbus Day off, because I still haven't heard from them... Patience.
Noa Put November 5th, 2015, 02:56 AM Steve, can I ask how the viewfinder and lcdscreen are to work with? I read a lot of negative things about the quality of these, is it easy to judge focus and does it have some other disadvantages that would require the purchase of a external monitor?
Steve Rosen November 5th, 2015, 08:22 AM Noa: The viewfinder is about like every camera was 5 years ago, not horrible, just adequate (I never use it anyway, I always use an external EVF with all my cameras). The LCD isn't nearly as bad as some have reported. I don't know, maybe I have a good one, but the color is close - and with peaking focusing is okay with either the eve or LCD... I bought a Gratical the same week I bought the 300, so I've been spoiled.
BTW, my remote port started working just as I was about to send it off to JVC... Don't have a clue what happened, but it's been working well for two weeks.
Duncan Craig November 5th, 2015, 09:29 AM The EVF is useless, it just gets in the way and I'd like to remove it. End of story.
I think I'll pull the eyecup off for a start as it sometime catches and extending the EVF outwards.
The monitor is fine for framing and very good for general focus.
There's a peaking setting (-10 to +10) for the viewfinder monitor which at the default of 0 still means the screen is very 'peaky'
For critical focus you need to activate the focus assist option which makes the screen B+W and the peaking shows in a colour. A lovely feature.
On my particular camera the colour rendition, even with the peaking turned down, is awful.
Pictures look lifeless and basically bad all round, but I know that if I've done a white balance on a proper grey card then the footage will look great back in the the edit suite.
For my corporate drama work, I run a DP4 on the side and a wireless director monitor so it's easy to get a second view.
Noa Put November 5th, 2015, 12:31 PM BTW, my remote port started working just as I was about to send it off to JVC... Don't have a clue what happened, but it's been working well for two weeks.
Sounds a lot like some Sony's I had that displayed weird behavior and/or had some buttons that stopped working and after a while started working again.
Thx Duncan and Steve for the info, 10 years ago I did a videocourse and we worked with Sony dsr 250's, the teacher brought a brandnew jvc GY-HM700 type of camera with him for us to try out for a day, not sure about the model number but if I recall right it was the very first model JVC brought out with this specific design. It's weird but I still remember how bad the lcd screen was (I had a sony vx2100 back then), our teacher didn't understand why the viewfinder was in color because professional shouldercamera's where supposed to have b/w viewfinders. :) This doesn't have anything to do with Jvc's current viewfinder, it just came to mind now. It almost looks like jvc has a history of bad lcdscreens?
I was planning to sell a few of my camera's and keep my gh4 and ax100 and the ls300 seemed like a good addition to complete my setup since I also have an extensive set of native m4/3 lenses.
I only don't like adding accessories to the camera so not sure how the lcdscreen or viewfinder would work for me. Think I"m going to try to see if I can have a look at it in a videostore.
Steve Rosen November 5th, 2015, 01:40 PM Noa: Good luck - I think you'll find the finder is useable... it's virtually identical to my Canon XF100 (my "glove-compartment camera", the VF of which I do use).
One good thing about getting a good EVF though is that it can travel from camera to camera, so you always know what you're seeing. For instance, with the Gratical X, I ordered it with the Filmmakers Essentials bundle that has focus and exposure tools. So now, when I switch to one of my Pocket Cameras I'm taking the same peaking, zebras and scopes with me.
I certainly understand not wanting to shell out half the cost of the camera, though... However, there are used Alphatrons and Z-Finder Pros popping up pretty regularly now - they don't all have the same features, but they're good viewfinders (I even have an original Cineroid that works well on the 300 but not on the Pockets - not great resolution and no scopes, but good zebras and peaking, but it works better than almost any built-in EVF).
Noa Put November 7th, 2015, 02:24 AM Have another question, how would you rate this camera when used in a run and gun situation? I need a camera that can handle fast changing environments, I want shallow dof when I need it, good enough stabilization when shooting handheld, good enough low light capabilities and good enough autofocus and a smooth transition of exposure when adjusting the iris.
With my current camera's I always control my expsoure manually and switch between auto and manual focus depending on the situation. Whitebalance I set when I have the time but often just let the camera handle it, shutter I always lock to a fixed value. What I find most valuable is to quickly be able to scroll through iso values because I have found having 3 presets (like I had on my nex-ea50) somewhat limiting when I wanted a specific f-stop and had to dial in the iso quickly to adjust exposure. That camera only allowed to have 3 presets which you had to change in the menu and there was no other way to change these values quicker when needed.
Would the ls300 fit this description?
Steve Rosen November 7th, 2015, 09:58 AM Okay... Long answer to a long question...
First, I'm a documentary filmmaker exclusively and shoot handheld about 80% of the time. I'm old school, having done this professionally since 1968. Consequently I'm a zoom-in-to-focus type guy, which means I've taken parfocal for granted for most of my life. One of the things that attracted me to the LS300 is the ability to use my collection of vintage S16 lenses.
So I set up my camera with a Gratical X mounted to the side, off the handle. I use my old Aaton grip mounted on 15mm rods, with a SmallRig shoulder pad under the back of the camera, bolted directly to the base plate - behind the rods for lower center of gravity. I mounted a cheapo controller on the left side, under the EVF, for start/stop. It's a perfect handheld setup that I designed for the AF100 and I can shoot comfortably with it all day.
Unfortunately, my old zooms don't act parfocal on this camera, and I can't figure out why - it's got to be the flange to sensor distance, or something with the thickness of the front surface of the sensor... anyway, old dog needs to learn new tricks.
Luckily I have some nice MFT zoom lenses from my AF100 days (which I've been using since on my two Pocket cameras) - an Olympus 12-40 Pro and Lumix 35-100. Shooting 1080 with the VSM/Prime Zoom feature set at 92%, I can use the 12-40 as essentially a 11-80+mm zoom by varying the VSM using the rocker. It's an excellent use of this camera. When I need longer I can pop on the 35-100 (which, with VSM still set at 92% becomes something like a 28-220) - this is singly the best thing about the LS300 for "run and gun" - a term I don't much like BTW.
And, yes, the auto focus works very well. I've never been much of a fan of AF, but with this camera it is almost essential, again because these two MFT zooms, which "acted" parfocal on the AF100 and Pockets, don't on this camera. And using Face Recognition, which I've set to a user button right behind AF, I can keep people in focus off center during long takes. It's not perfect - nothing "auto" is - but it's better than I thought it would be.
Low light is not a strength of the LS300. It performs well up to ASA1600, but above that it might be unacceptable for some - I don't mind grainy-looking noise, so I'll go higher if I need to. But I also have several nice primes, including the excellent native MFT Nokton 17.5mm f.95. With that lens, again with the VSM set at 92%, I get a 14-40 f.95 zoom that holds focus and iris through the range. I can also use my MFT mounted Leica-R 35mm Summarit for a 28-80mm zoom (VSM @100%), but it's only f2.8, so not a low light improvement over the Olympus, except it's a prettier lens.
All of the above changes (except AF), of course, when you shoot 4K - But that isn't a need I have right now.
As for WB, I usually use presets at 5600 and 3200 because it's what I'm used to with film. I can live with a little color shift if it looks appropriate. The LS is 8 bit, so massive fixes in post are tricky - but I'm aware of that and WB manually if need be - I NEVER use AWB.
To be honest, the LS300 made me pretty nervous at first because of some of it's QC problems, As a result I pre-ordered a Sony FS5, which also has a version of VSM, but for use with EF lenses with an adapter* (I also have two EF zooms). But, after working the bugs out, I cancelled the order and will stay with the JVC - and it's already paid for itself - who knows, I may even get another one.
*Speaking of adapters - I bought a Metabones EF-MFT "Smart" (quotes are mine) Adapter with the LS. What a POS for the price. Forget AF, that's not even a possibility (yes, I've done the appropriate firmware upgrade), I can live without it - but aperture adjustment is iffy at best... almost every time I count on it, I need to dismount and remount the lens to get it working - not a good thing when you're working fast, which I almost always am... I invested in EF lenses because (at other's advice) most cameras now either have EF mount options, or can be adapted. Fine if you want a flaky setup - I don't.
The cheaper 4K Ursa Mini is an option though - It's native EF, 10 bit ProRes and it's 3 grand plus media and batteries - no internal NDs (which I hate after 2 years struggling with Pocket Cams) and it's much heavier and clunkier - but the BM picture is comparable to the Alexa - the times they are'a changin'..
Noa Put November 7th, 2015, 01:18 PM Thx a lot Steve, that's very useful info. I have a 7,5mm, 9-18mm, 12mm, 25mm, 42,5mm 75mm, 12-35mm and 14-140mm, all native m4/3 lenses. The only lens left on my list is the voightlander 17,5mm f0.95 so as you can see I"m buried pretty deep into the MFT system, any change to another brand would be a too expensive exercise. If the ursa mini would have had a mft mount I might have considered it.
I recently saw a comparison between a gh4 and the ls300 and saw the ls300 had a much wider fov compared to the gh4 with the same lens, does this camera not have a 2.3 cropfactor in 4K like the gh4 has?
Steve Rosen November 7th, 2015, 01:41 PM I have no idea about the G Panasonics - I am not a DSLR fan...
If you spring for an LS300, let me know how that 14-140 works out. I think you'll really like the 12-35 with this camera though - I used to have one, but got the Olympus because it doesn't darken 1/3 stop when zoomed in, has a little more throw and has a nice manual focus feature.
BTW - I 've been asked several times about my choice to set the VSM at 92%. With the 12-40 it vignettes very slightly on the bottom right corner, but it's hardly noticeable. With the 35-100 and Nokton there's no vignetting at all. That's the cool thing about VSM - you're not stuck with the sensor size the manufacturer gives you.
Noa Put November 7th, 2015, 02:01 PM I just looked it up and this was the video I saw, That's quite a big difference and makes wide angles lenses much wider and more useful compared to a gh4
https://youtu.be/f23mVa_kSNw?t=21s
Steve Rosen November 7th, 2015, 07:53 PM I was shooting B roll today for a client film I'm making on tourism. I was at a golf course near the beach on the Monterey Peninsula. For the heck of it I purposely over exposed two shots in order to test the 8 bit response of the LS300.
Bottom line - don't do it! Do not over or under expose with this camera. If the exposure is well in the ballpark, the image is excellent. Go outside the ballpark and it turns to s__t. The macro blocking can be a real problem, and prevents you from "saving" a shot.
I've gotten real spoiled with the BM cameras - with them you can be all over the place and ball yourself out in post. The LS300 reminds me of the old days, shooting Ektachrome (look, spellcheck doesn't even know "Ektachrome - how sad). Anyway, even with J-Log, there isn't much room because of the 8 bit limitation, which is much worse than the 8 bit with the old AF100, or my C100.
Oh well, it just makes you more careful.
Noa Put November 8th, 2015, 05:04 AM there isn't much room because of the 8 bit limitation, which is much worse than the 8 bit with the old AF100, or my C100.
Isn't the c100 not H.264 24mbs 8bit 4:2:0? How is it possible that the H.264 50 mbs 4:2:2 8bit codec is much worse on the ls300?
Steve Rosen November 8th, 2015, 08:50 AM I have no idea...it may be some other factor like the sensor. I've used the C100 since it was introduced and loved it at first, but really like the picture from the LS300 better now - and it's 4.2.2.
To be honest I've never tortured the picture from the C100 as much as my test yesterday, so maybe it would be as bad... I'm working 7 day weeks right now, so I don't have time for a side by side, but I'll try that in a week or two - or three... Well, by Christmas anyway.
Lee Powell November 8th, 2015, 12:43 PM Do not over or under expose with this camera. If the exposure is well in the ballpark, the image is excellent. Go outside the ballpark and it turns to s__t. The macro blocking can be a real problem, and prevents you from "saving" a shot.
In Rec 709 mode (i.e. not V-Log), the LS300 can be set up to record highlights in the superwhite range, with a rolloff knee from 100-108%. When played back on Rec 709 system, these highlights will appear to be crushed, but they can be easily recovered by lowering highlight or master gain down to 90%. The viewfinder histogram can also be set up to display the superwhite range in red, allowing you to judge how much the highlights are being compressed.
Here's an example of LS300 highlight recovery, shot in Rec 709 mode:
LS-300 Superwhite Highlights on Vimeo
LS-300 Recovered Highlights on Vimeo
Steve Rosen November 9th, 2015, 09:45 AM The two sets of videos above (GH4 and highlights) demonstrate some of the other strengths of the LS300 (beside the Prime Zoom feature). Compared to most everything out there, it's a no brainer, especially if you already have native MFT lenses.
Some might think I've complained or been over critical because of some of my experiences. But I think forums like this should be honest and fair about the products. I'm not an LS300 fan-boy, but I do really like most things about the camera.
Here's something else I don't like though - it's not about the camera per se, but about the package it's being sold with. I bought mine bundled with a Metabones EF-MFT adapter. It doesn't work well. The iris control stops working just when you need it. You literally have to shut down and restart to get it working again, and even then it often doesn't.
And the AF is a joke - after I performed the V1.82 firmware upgrade, my 24-105 just makes horrible grinding noises.
I wrote to Metabones Support and they asked me to provide a video demonstrating the problem (this was their same response to a previous issue I had with another of their products). How do you make a video of the fact that the iris control is unreliable? Besides, I don't have the time.
So, my simple advice - DO NOT BUY METABONES ADAPTERS for this camera!
Lee Powell November 9th, 2015, 02:55 PM I bought mine bundled with a Metabones EF-MFT adapter. It doesn't work well. The iris control stops working just when you need it. You literally have to shut down and restart to get it working again, and even then it often doesn't.
And the AF is a joke - after I performed the V1.82 firmware upgrade, my 24-105 just makes horrible grinding noises.
Metabones MFT adapters use completely different means to control aperture on Canon lens than on Nikon and other mechanically operated lenses. Nikon lenses, regardless of whether they have an aperture ring, use a mechanical lever protruding from the lens base to set aperture via lens mount control. Metabones uses a mechanically geared ring on their Nikon adapters to enable manual control of lens aperture. While this ring cannot be calibrated in f-stops, it can be set accurately and repeatably. I use both standard and speedbooster versions of Metabones Nikon-to-MFT adapters on the LS300 and their fit and stepless aperture rings work better than any other MFT adapter I've tried.
Steve Rosen November 9th, 2015, 03:37 PM Lee - that's good information - unfortunately not for me since I've never invested in Nikon lenses because of the focus direction.
It's interesting that the EF mount is so prevalent on new cameras... I have the 24-105 and EFS 17-55, and compared to the MFT Olympus 12-40 and Lumix 35-100 they are noticeably inferior on this sensor - well, to be honest the 17-55 is close, but not at 2.8.
I would have never opted for the adapter, it just came as a bundle - I should have gotten the Rokinon instead.
Noa Put November 9th, 2015, 03:49 PM Jvc seems to bundle a lot with this camera, maybe sales are not as expected, in Belgium/the Netherlands the camera is sold body only, in the UK I have seen it with lenses bundled. Currently it's 2890 euro (3100 dollar) excl tax which looks like a good price. I think I"ll possible order it this week
Lee Powell November 9th, 2015, 05:22 PM I should have gotten the Rokinon instead.
I have the Rokinon 35mm and 85mm T1.5 Cine lenses in Nikon mount. They're both sharp enough for 4K resolution and the gears work smoothly with follow focus. Their image circles are wide enough to use at 100% Super 35 VSM, even with the Metabones 0.7x Speedbooster. Not all Nikon lenses can do this, some will vignette with the Speedbooster on the LS300's Super 35 sensor.
Steve Rosen November 9th, 2015, 05:25 PM Noa: I think you'll be very happy, as long as there are no problems (most people haven't had them). However, be sure you get the camera from a company that you have a track record with, or one with a good support reputation.
In the states B&H, even though essentially a "box store" has a very good return policy - I should know, I've returned more than several cameras with them, either for exchange or refund - including two LS300s.
Work it out the first day, testing all the buttons etc. I think you'll find it more robust than some have said - the entire nose piece is metal, not plastic, and the "plasticky" feel is really deceptive. But I've read that those fiddly little plastic buttons have caused some problems, either sticking or not responding.
I shot outside all morning yesterday, a half marathon, both tripod and handheld - and the footage is terrific. No problems, and I almost filled up a 64GB card. When it works like it should (and you nail your exposure) it blows the doors off the competition.
Steve Rosen November 9th, 2015, 05:27 PM Lee - what effective stop are you getting with the speedbooster?
Lee Powell November 9th, 2015, 06:08 PM Lee - what effective stop are you getting with the speedbooster?
Hard to say, but it's definitely brighter than f1.4. In 1080p mode, VSM+speedbooster makes the Rokinon 85mm a 60-140mm parfocal zoom, literally a dream come true. The 35mm is nearly as sharp, but it's a bit front-heavy on the LS300, not as compact as the 85mm.
I also agree on the build quality of the LS300, it's sturdier than it appears. I've used the camera outdoors for hours in 80-degree direct sunlight with no overheating or malfunction. Compared to the Panasonic AF100 I had before, the LS300's case is pretty comparable, and I wouldn't expect either of them to survive a fallen tripod unscathed. The detachable handle on the LS300 is remarkably solid - I have 15mm rails, follow focus, and a 5-inch monitor mounted on top and it doesn't wobble at all. The viewfinder and ND filter knob feel flimsy, but the rest of the controls have worked reliably every time.
Noa Put November 10th, 2015, 05:56 AM Noa: I think you'll be very happy
I know soon as I have found a store that rents the camera about an hours drive from my place, I"ll combine it with a city trip, in this way I have a day to test the camera with several of my lenses. It will cost me 90 euro to rent the camera but rather that then paying 3,5k and not being satisfied with it.
Steve Rosen November 10th, 2015, 12:30 PM Try to test the one you buy at the store if you can - don't get me wrong, I love this camera more every day I use it (and I've used a LOT of cameras) but JVC's quality control is the issue, not the design or concept.
Noa Put November 10th, 2015, 01:10 PM The store I was planning to buy from is one with a good reputation and they have 8 bigger video/photostores in 2 countries. They only don't rent this camera, we also don't have that return policy that I often hear about in the states where you can send back the camera if you don't like it or if you want to have it replaced with another model (unless I understood that wrong). If I order online there is a 2 week "change of mind period" BUT the camera has to be returned in a unopened box, if they see the camera has been taken out or used you pay for it. Here you basically keep what you pay for. We do have a 2 year warranty on all products so malfunctions are covered during this period and then it's just a matter to send to the store and they deal further with it.
I"m actually a bit more concerned if it's the right camera for me in terms of using it in fast changing environments, I don't mind changing iso, iris, shutter, nd and focus all manually, in fact I prefer to work in this way but I do run into situations where I need to be able to react quick to get a shot and then it's nice to have a camera that allows you do that.
To give an example, my sony nex-ea50, which I sold a year ago had a switch with 3 presets to assign ISO to just like the ls300, I had this on my canon xh-a1 before that too and then you assigned 0, 3 and 6db gain as anything higher was unusable anyway. Only today with large sensor camera's you have a much higher iso range to use so being able to scroll easily throughout the iso range has been very important in my use of my camera's. My rx10 for instance has a scroll wheel on the back that when rotated scrolls quickly through all iso values during video recording making quick exposure adjustments very easy. On my ea50 I only could choose 3 and I had to change these values in the menu depending on the light which was a big pain. Sometimes I wanted to have my lens wide open for that shallow dof effect but I had the wrong iso values assigned to teh switches so had to go back into the menu, reassign 3 other and see if they allowed me to shoot at a certain f-stop, that only works if you have time.
Not sure how the ls300 can deal with this?
Lee Powell November 10th, 2015, 01:35 PM The LS300 is not an ISO queen like a Sony or Nikon DSLR. It starts at ISO 400 and is good up to 1600, acceptable with noise reduction in post up to 3200. In practice, I preset the ISO switch with L at 400, M at 800, and H on auto-ISO with a max limit of either 1600 or 3200. The best way I've found to fine-tune exposure is using a lens or adapter with a declicked aperture ring. Shutter speed can be changed quickly, but I normally keep that fixed.
Noa Put November 10th, 2015, 01:43 PM That's the problem with switch presets, if you want to shoot wide open with your lens you select the appropriate ND depending on the light, the shutter should be locked and ideally adjust your iso to get the epxosure close to where it needs to be and then finetune with a lens that preferably has a declicked iris ring. Only with fixed iso values and only 3 to choose from one can be too high and the other can be too low so you need to go into the menu and re assign to test again and that is not what I want.
Steve Rosen November 10th, 2015, 02:08 PM As I said above, I spent most of my professional life shooting film. You literally had to change film magazines to change ASA - on exteriors you could of course use NDs, but most didn't like adding glass to a zoom lens, that's why I've nearly given up on my BM cameras.
Although I don't shoot much in low light these days, I find that setting my ISO presets to 400, 800 and 1600 covers most of my needs, and I keep the Nokton 17.5 f.95 nearby. There is a "LowLux" User button that zaps it up to (I think) 6400. And it is startling! (I've deactivated it on my camera, setting another feature to that button)
With native MFT lenses the auto functions work quite well, especially focus. Auto exposure DOES NOT work when shooting J-Log though (but J-Log probably isn't the best choice for low light shooting anyway, I'd go with Cine Gamma and Cine Color Subdued instead).
I'm not thrilled with the sluggishness of the manual iris knob. As you turn it it seems to take several seconds to react sometimes. Also, looking from the back, it turns counter-clockwise to open and clockwise to close, opposite of how I've always set controls like this, and it's apparently locked in - that drives me nuts. And the Metabones EF adapter is a paperweight in my office. There is a cheapo $69 EF to MFT adapter with a built in iris that works pretty well - it vignettes at about f8 (don't know for sure, because there aren't any markings) but I prefer it over the $400 Metabones.
The best all around option is a good manual lens. I have several S16s, but they aren't par focal on this camera (I do not know why). But a good medium wide full frame 28 or 35mm prime is a great way to work - I have the Leica-R 35. With the prime zoom set at 100% that lens gives me a nice 2 1/2 range and doesn't shift focus or aperture. I may check into some the other fast Voightlander lenses, or maybe the Rokinons.
BTW - the new Sony FS5 has a version of VSM and a variable ND - E mount though. so MFT is out with that one.
The LS300 is far from being perfect, but so far it's the only MFT mount horse in the corral.
Noa Put November 10th, 2015, 02:18 PM How does the autofocus work? With my gh4 I usually press the shutterbutton to lock the focus before I start shooting and during shooting, if needed I press and hold the shutter button for it to refocus. How does the LS300 focus automatically, is it continuous? Is there touch focus on the lcd screen?
Also, the manual iris adjustment knob, does it only work with native m4/3 lenses?
Is there also a button that can take the camera in a "all auto mode"? This is not how I prefer to deal with camera settings but there are some times where you need to get a shot in a blink of an eye and a camera can much quicker set shutter, iris and iso to a value that comes real close so you can focus on framing and getting the shot and when that is done switch back to manual for fine controll.
Steve Rosen November 10th, 2015, 07:12 PM The auto focus works very well - I can't compare it to others because I've never used it before, but I do on this camera because my zooms aren't acting parfocal, so I need auto when wide.
It also has face recognition, which I guess is standard now, but I haven't ever used it before either. It works very well as long as the face is - well - facing you.
The auto tracks well, but doesn't seem to jump forward when something passes close to the camera. That's good. I used it a lot shooting a marathon over the weekend and was very happy with the result.
And, yes, there is a switch that offers preset and all auto, which I assume is customizable in the menu. I have put gaffers tape on mine so I don't accidentally switch it pulling the camera out of the bag.
Lee Powell November 10th, 2015, 07:29 PM The LS300 has continuous auto-focus with MFT lenses and the legacy Four Thirds lenses I've tried (using an active adapter of course.) There's a default AF/MF button on the side that toggles it on and off, as well as a Full Auto Mode switch that automates focus and exposure as well. I've had good auto results with the Olympus 18-50mm f2.8 legacy Four Thirds zoom, which happens to be parfocal and works without vignetting at 100% VSM. Another good auto zoom for the LS300 is the Panasonic 45-175mm f4-5.6 Power Zoom, not parfocal but works with the zoom rocker on top of the microphone handle. However, the LS300 cannot turn on the OIS in this or any other MFT lens I've tested.
Manual electronic iris control on the LS300 continues to be problematic with the 2.0 firmware update. It works but is sluggish with MFT lenses and displays erratic and erroneous aperture readings when used to control legacy Four Thirds lenses. Panasonic made two Leica Four Thirds lenses with manual aperture rings, a 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 and a 25mm f1.4. These lenses are currently incompatible with the LS300.
I haven't tested Canon EF lenses or Panasonic 12-35mm and 35-100m f2.8 zooms, so I can't comment on their auto-focus perfomance or OIS support with the LS300.
John Nantz November 10th, 2015, 09:28 PM To help with finding a lens that will fit, this micro 4/3 lens page at The Complete Micro 4/3 Lens List (http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html) has a lot of information about lenses. Just noticed that it has been updated to November 2015.
The Nikon adapter is thiner than the other adapters so would bring the lens closer to the camera body for better balance. I’ve got a couple Nikon lenses so this was of interest to me.
A question I had was, what would be a good power zoom lens?
As I write this, eBay (US) has a couple LS300 cams w/ lens starting bid at $2,500.
Steve Rosen November 10th, 2015, 10:14 PM I'm sorry to see EBay ads like that.. it undoubtedly means the ultimate and untimely doom of this camera. Well, as long as mine keeps working I'll laugh all the way to the bank...
Noa Put November 11th, 2015, 02:38 AM Thx a lot for all the info!
However, the LS300 cannot turn on the OIS in this or any other MFT lens I've tested.
ok, just to be sure because this is important, does OIS not work at all with stabilised lenses?? Some lenses require a switch on the lens to activate/deactivate the OIS, like the 12-35mm and others like my 42,5mm panasonic lens doesn't have a switch and always has OIS activated.
If stabilisation doesn't work on any lens with build in stabilisation then the camera is useless to me.
Duncan Craig November 11th, 2015, 07:02 AM I've just bought the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 f2.8 set for my LS300.
The OIS is working fine, and switchable on the lens.
Lovely lenses, and so lightweight. I bought them new from eBay UK for £449 and £515 - probably some kind of kit lens sell off but at that price (nearly half RRP) not a problem. And they do come with a one year seller warranty, the standard retail box and accessories.
The iris does 'adjust' as you zoom so there are slight visible bumps in exposure.
Contrary to other's experience, on my lenses the exposure seems constant throughout the zoom range, if there is a drop it's tiny.
The camera is aware of were in the zoom range the lens is set, and shows a zoom scale on the viewfinders - nice.
Phil Goetz November 11th, 2015, 07:28 AM When I was with Omega Broadcast I sold William Ridenour an LS300. He is conversational and a god resource for info:
https://www.youtube.com/user/avarmadillo/videos
Steve Rosen November 11th, 2015, 10:17 AM Noa: The OIS seems to work on Lumix lenses - but Panasonic OIS is notoriously inadequate I'm told. It's another of those things I seldom if ever use, but I have occasionally with the EF-S 17-55, and it's excellent on a heavily loaded camera like my C100. However, as mentioned above, OIS doesn't work with Canon lenses on the LS300.
As both Duncan and I mentioned, the iris control continues to be sluggish. This is probably the worst fast-working issue with this camera. I haven't had erroneous f stop readouts, but I have had the experience many times of cranking way past where I intended to go, had a nearly black screen, then had to back off... because the readout doesn't display correctly until well AFTER you have stopped twisting the dial - it wouldn't be so bad if auto exposure worked in Log so you could let the camera set the exposure, then turn it off - that just has to be fixable. For instance, the iris control on the cheap little Pocket Cinema Camera is very quick and positive, even with a Metabones Speedbooster, although it works in annoying steps.
Unfortunately, with all the industry negativity surrounding this camera, JVC probably isn't going to follow up with a lot of firmware upgrades like BM does.
Again, my solution is to explore the option of using good manual prime lenses with the Prime Zoom feature. I tried a friend's Rokinon 85 last night, and it looked good at 100%, but not so good at 43% (it would be too long anyway). My Leica-R Summarit 35mm is excellent throughout and I can set the max @ 100%, but it's a wee too long at 100%. The Nokton 17.5 needs to be set at 92%, and it looks pretty good throughout, but gets iffy around f1.4 at 43%. I think the perfect lens would be a fast 25mm like the Nokton. Unfortunately that lens is an MFT, which probably means the widest I could go on the VSM would be 92%, like the 17.5, which limits the range slightly... If it covers at 100% I'll buy it. Anyone out there know?
Noa Put November 11th, 2015, 11:13 AM So on the 12-35mm the OIS works then, I wonder what Lee ment when he said that he could not turn on the OIS on any MTF lens and which lenses he was refering to?
Steve Rosen November 11th, 2015, 11:32 AM Don't know, must not have been one he tested (I don't have that one, and the Olympus doesn't have IS).
Lee Powell November 11th, 2015, 01:58 PM With firmware 1.0 and 2.0, the LS300 cannot control OIS on the Lumix 45-200mm f4-5.6 and Lumix 45-175mm f4-5.6 (the in-camera OIS menu option is grayed out). I haven't tested other lenses of these types, but I'd expect the same behavior with other "Mega OIS" and "Power Zoom" lens as well. The Lumix 12-35mm and 35-100mm f2.8 zooms are labelled "Power OIS" and by all reports I've seen, the LS300 can control OIS on these lenses.
I suspect this is a reverse engineering problem rather than a functional flaw. I doubt Panasonic has shared all technical details of MFT electronic lens control protocols with JVC. The 2.0 firmware release improved compatibility with some legacy Four Thirds lenses, and hopefully JVC engineers will find solutions for these OIS issues. Realistically, there's just one Panasonic lens with OIS I found usable for video shooting: the Leica 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 legacy Four Thirds zoom. Unfortunately, that lens is currently incompatible with the LS300, most likely due to undocumented details of its unique manual aperture ring.
The Power Zoom function is a different story. The LS300 can control zoom on the Lumix 45-175mm f4-5.6 and the Olympus 12-50mm f3.5-6.3, using the rocker switch on either the hand grip or the detachable microphone grip.
John Nantz November 11th, 2015, 02:39 PM Phil -
That link had a great short video "JVC GY-LS300: Prime Lenses into Zooms!!”
Talk about a useful firmware update and that was a really good one.
Imagine having your prime lens on and can’t move in closer - just hit the zoom rocker and you go tthe shot. Really neat!
When I was with Omega Broadcast I sold William Ridenour an LS300. He is conversational and a god resource for info:
https://www.youtube.com/user/avarmadillo/videos
Wish I had seen that video earlier. Might have given one of those eBay bidders a run for the money on those cams.
Dang! One went for $2550! Talk about a score!
The seller said they were "purchased from JVC Pro US.
Original box, paperwork and un filled warranty card.
and all accessories are included.”
It would still be nice to know about a good power zoom, say around 10X optical, give or take.
Noa Put November 11th, 2015, 04:54 PM The Lumix 12-35mm and 35-100mm f2.8 zooms are labelled "Power OIS" and by all reports I've seen, the LS300 can control OIS on these lenses.
Thx Lee, good to know, I also have a 14-140mm lens which is also power ois so that should work as well. On the gh4 at least that 14-140mm lens has a very good stabilisation which should make it a good allround lens for handheld work IF it works the same way on the ls300.
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