Cause it can't do 4K.

SMPTE has not standardized a 6G or 12G SDI standard so the SDI outputs without the extension unit on the FS7 are all HD 3G.

The only 6G or 12G standard out there of current is proprietary to Blackmagic Design, which means when the official SMPTE one is drafted, it will not be cross compatible and there will be fragmentation. All the camera manufacturers are playing it safe, sticking to current SMPTE standards. That's 3G-SDI ONLY.

HDMI though has evolved to carry 4K. This is why the 7Q+ and the A7s work so well, cause that sure as hell has no SDI port.

Then sorry man. Enjoy the wait. The FS5/7 weren't made for you.

Ron I'm aware of those focus methods,just need to know if the focus ring on this camera is infinite like the x70 or like the ex1r where u can focus fast on the ring.
I'll try calling Sony tomorrow
Thx

What you say to your clients is of course up to you.
If I had clients that demanded 4k60p (which I certainly
do not) I would be looking at buying a FS7. Or
alternatively, an Odyssey 7q to go with my FS700.
If you are saying they demand 4k60p but won't pay rates
which would allow you to buy a FS7 then I'd tend to agree...
that is a client problem.

Ron I'm aware of those focus methods,just need to know if the focus ring on this camera is infinite like the x70 or like the ex1r where u can focus fast on the ring.
I'll try calling Sony tomorrow
Thx
The ring on the 'kit' lens that comes with the FS5
is infinite/free spinning. It is also 'focus by wire' which
pretty much sucks. That is the main drawback of that
lens.

... The design of the FS5 is a godsend, but the limitations are just enough that when the new stopgap model comes out, you'll regret making your current purchase.

I hear you Jack - but at the rate Sony spits out new cameras that will always be the case. Meanwhile, I would love to shoot with the capabilities this FS5 offers now, in addition to the PMW-300 and C100 I already use - even if the FS5's features are not perfect for everyone they fit my specific needs right now.

Here's why I've pre-ordered one (lifted from my website).

I've been sitting on the fence about a new cam for nearly a year now and have been thinking hard about buying a C300 MkII all summer. But in the end it’s just too damn expensive an ecosystem for a 4K camera that still has some (in my view) serious limitations, especially concerning high frame rate options. Sure it will have some terrific capabilities, but media costs and those huge 4K files for archiving worry me. I also looked hard at the Sony FS7 but, whilst it’s a terrific camera, it’s just too cumbersome for my specific needs (and it’s sluggish menu system, bugs etc. would annoy me - plus it still needs add ons to make it a true shoulder mount cam anyway). I’m also considering buying a brushless gimbal and I really wanted a smaller cam for that.

So I sat and waited for IBC and, as I’d hoped, Sony launched something smaller - the PXW-FS5 on 11th September. It looks like a Canon C100 MkII killer to me! I pre-ordered one immediately (and a Metabones MkIV EF to NEX adapter, both with CVP.com) as this cam will fit my needs far better.

With 10-bit Full HD (4.2.2 1080p50 XAVC Long GoP at 50 Mbps) the Sony PXW-FS5 should be a terrific S35 successor to my Canon C100. The PXW-FS5 has a much better codec than what Canon is offering in the C100 MkII (although the Inter-frame version of XAVC would have been even better). It also has Full HD HFR (high frame rate) burst options at up to 240 FPS. Furthermore, it’ll allow me to dabble in 4K (actually QFHD) with its internal 8-bit 4.2.0 XAVC Long-GoP at 100Mbps capability - sure more of an “entry level” 4K capability for a S35 sensor cam - 10-bit 4.2.2 and a higher bit rate would have been terrific. However, what’s on offer is good enough for my specific needs (at this point in time) as 4K is still some way off with my client base. Even better, a future firmware update for “true 4K” and raw output has been promised - at a price and date yet to be announced - so with an external recorder some future options might become possible.

Just posting this as I always find it very useful to read how others make that most difficult of decisions - buying a new camera. Sure, the FS5 may not be for you Jack and you've explained why really well - but for others my personal perspective may have some value in helping them decide to consider the FS5 - or not.

Hope this is useful to someone!

Jack - you haven't found the right camera for you in your budget range. But what occurs to me is who are you competing with? How do they do it and beat you on price? At the moment no one has access to your perfect camera at your price range so if clients really want it, charge more and work out financially how you structure it. If clients won't pay they don't really want it.

Sony have positioned the PXW-FS5 so it does less than the FS7 and that in turn does less than the F5. It's hardly surpising that a camera that costs less doesn't have every feature that the more expensive ones do.

There are very few camera's out that shoot 4K 60P but the kind of cam you want I expect will probably come first from one of the smaller players. Then Sony will respond..

Jack... Have you seen Goodfellas?
I can sum up your ENTIRE client problem in one scene.
Watch this... Except imagine him saying "you want 4k-60?"
https://youtu.be/3XGAmPRxV48

The reason you have a problem here is because you aren't charging enough to buy the camera you want... Not because it doesn't exist!
Learn to charge more or get higher end clients, make more money, buy an F55 or whatever you want.

This camera has so much going for it. I was eyeballing the FS7 but after holding this thing at IBC I was pretty much sold. I could hold this for hours. Reminded me vaguely of the trusty&ancient PD-150 (shooting through the viewfinder) - but with much better ergonomics. The ND-filter implementation is brilliant.

Small and powerful- and with images coming out of it like the FS7! Who doesn't want an FS5? 60fps lovers...?

I have shot entire documentaries on the Panasonic GH2, broadcast here in the Netherlands. Don't get hung up on numbers...

The reason you have a problem here is because you aren't charging enough to buy the camera you want... Not because it doesn't exist!
Learn to charge more or get higher end clients, make more money, buy an F55 or whatever you want.

The clients I get literally are via networking and they constantly low ball me. If I communicated that I wanted ridiculous rates for stuff, I get no work. Even offering my services for half the rental rate of my current camera, the EX1R, I got NO GIGS.

I'm also a terrible communicator at cold calling and etc. So all my client relationships are friendship based, not professional. It's my condition that hinders me too.

This camera has so much going for it. I was eyeballing the FS7 but after holding this thing at IBC I was pretty much sold. I could hold this for hours. Reminded me vaguely of the trusty&ancient PD-150 (shooting through the viewfinder) - but with much better ergonomics. The ND-filter implementation is brilliant.
.

Thank you for a hands-on impression.
I used a PD-150 and I wasn't really in love with the form. It wasn't fun to handhold for a long period of time. I hope the FS5 is considerably better in this regard.

Here's Alister Chapman's hands on review of the Sony PXW-FS5:

The Sony PXW-FS5. Run and Gun Super35 for all. | XDCAM-USER.COM (http://www.xdcam-user.com/2015/09/the-sony-pxw-fs5-run-and-gun-super35-for-all/)

The clients I get literally are via networking and they constantly low ball me. If I communicated that I wanted ridiculous rates for stuff, I get no work. Even offering my services for half the rental rate of my current camera, the EX1R, I got NO GIGS.
I remember doing a business course, and a scenario came up of "how to handle clients who press for lower rates". The advice given was to try to accommodate - but in general terms along the lines of "well, I might be able to do it for that price, but we will have to simplify the work".

The alternatives (I believe) were "no, it's this price" or simply going along with them, and the latter was generally seen as a slippery slope.

So, I tend to agree with the others - the problem lies not with this camera, but with your clients expectations. Somehow you have to tell them that if they want 60p, 4K, a decent quality camera, and a low rate, they'll have to choose which three of those four.

Anyway - back to the camera itself...... I'm hoping to see it in a week or two, but thanks for posting Alister's impressions in the meantime, Andy.

If I've one question, it's about the Clear Image zoom. Alister says "The camera even has Sony’s clear image zoom function that electronically increases the zoom range with virtually no image degradation." - but presumably that's only true in HD, not 4K? Start zooming by cropping, and if the whole sensor is 3840x2160, you'll still have more than enough photosites to give HD after the crop, but not 4K?

I believe Jack is a few years out of school. When you're young it's a) hard to book big clients, b) hard to raise the rate, c) you're not a very good negotiator yet. All things that change with time, in my experience.

David, there is some good information about the Clear Image Zoom function (and lot of other interesting technical info!) in the 20-minute Sony video that was embedded in Post #41 (on Page 3 of in this thread). It's the one where the Sony Design Engineer talks us through the various features/aspects of the camera with it in his hands.

thanks for that clarification on the focussing of the lens, so its just like the x70.
ill pass, im better off buying the 70 for 4,000 less.
youd think theyd have a true focus on the fs5 for that price

It's a kit lens. You can use any lens you want that may have geared focus. The 18-105 is an all-around lens, and has some compromises. But for a walkaround lens that's F4 throughout and $550... it ain't bad.

I believe Jack is a few years out of school. When you're young it's a) hard to book big clients, b) hard to raise the rate, c) you're not a very good negotiator yet. All things that change with time, in my experience.

Plus I have Asperger's Syndrome, yet another factor in why I've been a terrible communicator other than trying to make clients via friendships.

(and lot of other interesting technical info!)

As Andy mentions a lot of other interesting detail. A very important piece of information that slips through pretty quickly if you are not careful lies between 6:12 and 6:34 in that embedded video in post #41. That is the fact that Sony with its own proprietary XAVC-L codec are the only manufacturer using DUAL-PASS H.264 encoding in their cameras. This goes a long way to explaining how Sony is getting the quality they are out of the 50-mbit HD encoding on their cameras that run this codec. I've been surprised how the X70 handles rapid and complex scene movement with its XAVC-L 50-mbit codec. It handles it extremely well indeed.

Anyone who understands the efficiency and benefits of dual-pass encoding when encoding H.264 / x264 will have witnessed the improvement with dual-pass encoding especially if the video contains high motion content. Hard to encode scenes that contain material such as spray from water fountains or rapidly falling rain on flowing water surfaces being particular hard to encode efficiently. So it's not all in the bit rate is it.

Interesting camera. In many ways it is an X70 codec wise, barring the X70's QFHD upgrade but with the S35 sensor from its bigger brothers. 4K for me is not a big demand in the foreseeable future for me so I pretty tempted to give this a go. A cross between and X70 and an FS7 could work.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

For those in the UK...I just saw a CVP Facebook post the says they will have a FS5 available tomorrow morning (Wed 23rd Sep) at their Brentwood store.

I am unable to go due to my schedule :-(....but book in if you can and tell us all what you think afterwards!

I also had a delivery notification from CVP that my Metabones adapter (Mark IV, Canon EF to Sony) will arrive today. When I ordered it, delivery was estimated at around 6 weeks so I wanted to make sure I had one in my hands...was n't expecting it so soon...now all I need is an FS5 to attach it too!

I've got an FS5 on pre-order right now.

Next week I have a shoot for which I need an extra camera. Lockdown wide shot. I currently have an FS-100 and a 5DMkII. Whatever I buy, I'd like it to play nice with the FS5. Something in the $1000 price range. Any suggestions?

A used GH4 (with V-log)?

I've got an FS5 on pre-order right now.

Next week I have a shoot for which I need an extra camera. Lockdown wide shot. I currently have an FS-100 and a 5DMkII. Whatever I buy, I'd like it to play nice with the FS5. Something in the $1000 price range. Any suggestions?

Rent an A7s or something similar?

The clients I get literally are via networking and they constantly low ball me. If I communicated that I wanted ridiculous rates for stuff, I get no work. Even offering my services for half the rental rate of my current camera, the EX1R, I got NO GIGS.

I'm also a terrible communicator at cold calling and etc. So all my client relationships are friendship based, not professional. It's my condition that hinders me too.

That's a marketing and sales problem 100%. Even getting "the right" camera isn't going to keep you from getting low balled - and we're not talking about ridiculous rates, we're talking about getting paid a FAIR price for the work you do.

Solve your client/sales/marketing problem or do something else for work, because if you can't do sales, you aren't going to be in the game for the long haul.

If you want some suggestions, I'll start a new thread.

Jack, my friend, I can' t offer much help 'cause I am ALSO a terrible salesman, but if you're actually doing work or offering it with an EX1 for half a camera rental rate -- which, should be between $200-350/day, making YOUR offer $100-175/day, that is pretty messed up (unless it was a last minute call, i.e., you would have made NO money that day otherwise -- that was just for a few hours, and preferably in the evening), and even more messed up if people won't hire you at those rates, since that is an insanely generous deal.

If you're still struggling that much I definitely wouldn't get ANOTHER piece of gear, putting you even further in the hole that will take forever to pay off (remember, if you make, say $500 a day with your cam, your cam isn't really making $500/day, your labor is part of that, and any other gear you're bringing along-- Your cam might be $200 of that, or $250 or something. So that day, your camera made $250 that's how you should think of it.. That cam hasn't REALLY made its money back until you've made back the cost IN CAMERA RENTAL FEES ALONE. I believe someone said that a cam should pay for itself the way I describe in a year to a year and a half, tops. If you spend $5500+ on a camera, will you make that back in that amount of time, IN CAMERA RENTAL FEES ALONE?

Again, I am also terrible at the sales side of this-- people just sort of find me when they find me -- but you should figure out how to be more viable with the gear you have (EX1 still a very nice cam, should be able to get decent work with it even now), and if people are DEMANDING 4k60p or anything else, you simply have to say "I can do that, but it will cost you $xxx. For what your budget is, I can only do [whatever]." That's all there is to it. Otherwise you're getting screwed hard and eventually it won't sustain and the whole thing will implode in on itself. We all make compromises on our rates occasionally to stay working (despite what many will insist on), but those compromises should only be UP TO A POINT. Sometimes you just have to say "no, sorry, can't do it. Good luck."

The specs show HFR files are in 60i/50i format only. Odd choice. Marketing segmentation? I'd be interested to see how the slow-mo looks once it's rendered out in a 30p format.

Mark

I have just read elsewhere on the web a summary of points learnt yesterday during a Sony FS5 demo in Canada. The FS5 will NOT have have a Wave Form Monitoring option at launch. It will have Histogram, Zebras and Focus Peaking.

The specs show HFR files are in 60i/50i format only. Odd choice.
Mark

Surely that must be a typo - I blummin well hope so! From what I have just read the HFR option seems to operate very much like on the FS700 (which it seems to share a lot of its guts with). So, are the HFR options on that camera interlaced only?

So, are the HFR options on that camera interlaced only?
Highly unlikely. My guess is that they are progressive, but somewhere along the line are being transposed into psf - which is then being seen as interlace.

On the FS700 HFR it is true progressive but you can select output as 25p or 25PSF or 50p (pull down) and I would imagine that the FS5 would follow that lead.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Can anyone who's handled the FS5 comment on it's size / weight compared with Canon C100? With and without top handle / grip?

Also, C100 can often pass for stills camera (handy when working in places where playing the tourist is advantageous). From the photos I've seen, Sony FS5 looks to have too many dials / buttons on the side to play that card ... any advice?

Many thanks.

Surely that must be a typo - I blummin well hope so! From what I have just read the HFR option seems to operate very much like on the FS700 (which it seems to share a lot of its guts with). So, are the HFR options on that camera interlaced only?

No, the FS700 saves the HFR video as progressive, user selectable as 24p, 30p or 60p.

Mark

I held the FS5 in my hands: felt good.
I saw someone compare it to a PD150: I don't share that feeling.
I doesn't compare to the PD150 at all: the handgrip is much better and rotatable like on the EX1(R).
The variable electronic ND will really give you more control over DoF.
I see it more like a little brother of the FS7 and a nice S35 successor of the EX1R with a bonus: it can be stripped down to the body alone, so it can be used on a MoVI M5.

One downside I learnt from Alister: while recording there is no HDMI out, at the moment: he said it will be added by a firmware update.

@Zack:
Read this blog by Vincent Laforet about the cost of doing business:
How to succeed as a creative long term: know your C.O.D.B. « Vincent Laforet's Blog (http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2013/08/01/how-to-succeed-as-a-creative-long-term-know-your-c-o-d-b/)
It's very informative if you struggle about what to charge.

And go networking: there must be networking clubs or events you can attent to make new contacts. I understand you find it hard to make new connections: maybe you can ask someone to join you to 'break the ice' or even better: ask if you can join someone who is going there anyway. That person might introduce you to some new people.
And change your mindset: a proper rate is not insane.
Your 'friend-clients' might think it is insane, but they have become used to insanely cheap.
Years ago I heard someone telling about this same situation: he was fed up and sent an email to all his clients explaining that he needs to raise his rates to survive and that he will have to say goodbye to bad paying clients. What happened? He indeed had to say goodbye to a part of his clients, while others were willingto pay better rates, because they felt it was worth it.


The EX1R is still a very good camera. I also still use it (although not for everything.)
In times you have nothing to do, you could go make something you'd like to create. This way you can expand your portfolio with something to target clients, so you can up your game.
Never do nothing: always learn to improve your skills, so you can offer more quality.
4K doesn't automaticly improve your work's quality.
Actually buying the newest stuff isn't the quickest way to better rates/more work: stuff is just tools.
Make your clients feel and understand you make THE difference because you know how to tell their story in a compelling way that helps their businesses.

Can anyone who's handled the FS5 comment on it's size / weight compared with Canon C100? With and without top handle / grip?

Also, C100 can often pass for stills camera (handy when working in places where playing the tourist is advantageous). From the photos I've seen, Sony FS5 looks to have too many dials / buttons on the side to play that card ... any advice?

Many thanks.

I held a C100 maybe once but from what I remember it has a more DSLR-factor designwise and the FS5 is a real videocamera. With a lot of dedicated buttons, yes, so passing as a stills camera would be hard. Over at Newsshooter I saw an unboxing of the FS5 and the maker commented that it did remind him of the Canon Cinema series.

I held the FS5 and it felt great- very light also. I felt I could handhold this camera for a long time, looking down through the viewfinder. The weight, handgrip and small size got me very excited. Not to mention the chip and variable ND...

This video of Tom Crocker of Sony talking about the FS5 at IBC has just been released.

Sony PXW-FS5, in-depth interview: Tom Crocker, Sony, Europe (http://www.moviemachine.tv/video/sony-pxw-fs5,-in-depth-interview-tom-crocker,-sony,-europe/140608164/)

Thanks to those of you who've actually held the camera. Your input is invaluable. It does seem to be a very versatile, little hand-held camera.

This camera looks like it would satisfy my yearning for a 4k version of an ex1 type camera but I have some concerns around editing the XAVC-L footage. I have a fs7 and have tried filming and editing using this codec and found it difficult. I have a decent computer and playback was a pain in the arse.

I'm tipping many buyers will also be shelling out for a new computer in order to edit the footage the FS5 produces without pulling all their hair out!

Hope I'm wrong cos I'd love one of these!

I hear you on that one. Good point.

I am hoping my pretty high spec new Mac Pro ("trashcan") and G-Raid Studio-R 4-Bay Thunderbolt 2 system (where all my work in progress media sits), running Adobe CC and/or FCPX, will handle the Sony XAVC-L 4K codec pretty well - especially the HD 4.2.2 50 Mbps codec which is what I'll be using 80-90% 0f the time I expect - at least for now. But time will tell - roll on November!

What type of spec is the Mac or PC that struggles with clips from your FS7 with the XAVC-Long GoP codec? And is that 4K or HD you're talking about?

At IBC I saw the FS5 side by side with a C100.
The sizes are pretty close to each other.
2 major physical differences are the position of the LCD screen and the handgrip: the FS5 can easily be adjusted while holding the camera, while a C100 has to be but down to unsrew the handgrip if you want it to be rotated.

@Jamie,
difficulties with playback can have various reasons: the harddrive can be the bottleneck, or the GPU or CPU.
So maybe the solution isn't a new system, but identifying the part causing the problem.

Well, got to check one out for real today and I'm hoping for a "output only" mode to be included in the RAW upgrade that would allow the sensor to scan at 60p without any internal recording functions active. The photo below was the menu option that gave me hope. If the FS5 can in the very least output 4K 60p out the HDMI with duplicate frames, it can very likely do so natively if the internal recording functions were disabled, which the RAW upgrade probably would do.

If that option is HD only, then there is no hope for 4K 60p out the HDMI, but rather the RAW upgrade only.

Right now the DVX200 looks to be a better choice.

Ron ~

Right now I'm holding my powder dry after spending an afternoon with the DVX200.

The one we looked at was the latest firmware version prior to release we were told. First things first. I had heard about noisy shadows and blacks so I was on the lookout for this. Sure enough I could see noise in the dark areas at 0dB. What I DIDN'T expect to see as I wasn't even looking for it and it was the furthest thing from my mind was fixed pattern noise in the blacks. To see pronounced FPN at 0dB on a late model camera release surprised me. Something else I didn't expect to see and wasn't even thinking about looking for it until it hit me was moire... moire on T shirt material even? These three issues all raised their heads in the first thirty minutes of just trying the camera out without any specific tests in mind.

The other aspect I found a little surprising was that I was led to believe that the 200 had a similar zoom function to Sony's Clear Image Zoom. A zoom that once it reached the end of its optical travel would then continue on from the long end. On the x70 for example you go from full wide to 12 x and then on to 24 x with pretty acceptable results. On the 200 this is not the case it is actually a doubler as we are used to in B4 lens terminology. The HD wide end is 28mm in FF terms so this becomes 56mm and the long end goes from 365.3 to 730.6mm. So no zooming from full wide of 28mm with the 2x engaged. I can see uses for this but the loss of the wide end really cramps ones style if you want the extended reach at the same time.

In all fairness to Panasonic this was a pre-production model so I will wait to see a full production roll out model before I draw any further conclusions. The DVX200 camera has masses of appeal on paper with the specs it offers but unless the image characteristics improve somewhat I think there will a few people asking questions. No doubt more and more opinions will start to surface in the near future as these cameras hit the stores. I'm just surprised to see to see these issues raising their heads so close to release date.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

I'm tipping many buyers will also be shelling out for a new computer in order to edit the footage the FS5 produces without pulling all their hair out!

Jamie I know where you are coming from. Long GOP formats like XAVC-L are always harder for CPUs. to decode. What I am doing with all my XAVC footage is batch converting it to Cineform 4:2:2 Medium which is a wavelet based codec. It plays super smoothly edits nicely and can carry a fair bit of correction and effects before it even looks like dropping below a full 50 frames per second and that sort of performance can be seen on a 1st gen i7 CPU. The trade off is that the clips will be about 3.6 times the size. Quality? I cannot pick the difference so it's a no brainer for me.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Any updates on delivery date? With two on order, I'm counting the days. I just don't know how many days to count. ;)

I'm excited about this camera more for HD at 4:2:2, 10-bit with an efficient codec onto cheap XCSD cards off a super 35mm sensor, plus interchangeable lenses. Don't really care about 4K just now, but love the idea of having more "cinematic" look potential and more robust post-production tweak-able footage - all in a gun-and-run format. Kind of like a PXW X70 with a bigger chip AND I can swap lenses. I don't think anything else out there ticks all of those boxes. 240 FPS slow-mo is icing on the cake really. Will seriously consider buying this when available for cinema verite type projects.

Maybe a stupid question, but... would it be compatible with the HXR-PMU128?
If yes, that would be a boon (and would permit high rate 4K recording)

N.F.

I'm excited about this camera more for HD at 4:2:2, 10-bit with an efficient codec onto cheap XCSD cards off a super 35mm sensor, plus interchangeable lenses. Don't really care about 4K just now, but love the idea of having more "cinematic" look potential and more robust post-production tweak-able footage - all in a gun-and-run format. Kind of like a PXW X70 with a bigger chip AND I can swap lenses. I don't think anything else out there ticks all of those boxes. 240 FPS slow-mo is icing on the cake really. Will seriously consider buying this when available for cinema verite type projects.

I guess I rather irreverently spilled my guts, but would anyone care agree or disagree with my take on this camera. Thanks.

-Terence

Any updates on delivery date? With two on order, I'm counting the days. I just don't know how many days to count. ;)
Eric from Pro Video and Tape said I was one of the first few on the pre-order list, so I assume I'll be one of the first to get one. Like you, I am chomping at the bit. They were saying shipping in November but I'd heard mention of "perhaps by the end of October", so I have my hopes up. My beta 300 was serial number #10012, the 12th Beta 300 to roll off the line. I am curious to see if I can have a similar accolade for the FS5, although certainly it won't be as iconic.
Maybe a stupid question, but... would it be compatible with the HXR-PMU128?.
The FMU128 would require molding of the body that the FS5 does not seem to have.
I'm excited about this camera more for HD at 4:2:2, 10-bit with an efficient codec onto cheap XCSD cards off a super 35mm sensor, plus interchangeable lenses. Don't really care about 4K just now, but love the idea of having more "cinematic" look potential and more robust post-production tweak-able footage - all in a gun-and-run format. Kind of like a PXW X70 with a bigger chip AND I can swap lenses. I don't think anything else out there ticks all of those boxes. 240 FPS slow-mo is icing on the cake really. Will seriously consider buying this when available for cinema verite type projects.
If you had hard drive space to burn, I suppose you could shoot HD 4:2:2 10-bit - I'm showing you'd get about 7 minutes on a 64GB card. Can your edit system handle this bandwidth? What do you have for a monitoring solution that can take advantage of this extra data? How are you outputting? Will your audience notice a difference? To me, this is not the advantage of this camera. But I am not the camera gestapo - but it for whatever reasons you wish.

Quote: If you had hard drive space to burn, I suppose you could shoot HD 4:2:2 10-bit - I'm showing you'd get about 7 minutes on a 64GB card. Can your edit system handle this bandwidth? What do you have for a monitoring solution that can take advantage of this extra data? How are you outputting? Will your audience notice a difference? To me, this is not the advantage of this camera. But I am not the camera gestapo - but it for whatever reasons you wish.

Regarding the card space, XAVC-L compresses HD to 50 MB/s - so that's not a problem. Pro Res conversion (for example) will blow that up quite a bit, which I think is what you maybe were referring to (7 minutes/64 GB)? I use external hard drives for all my projects, which are relatively cheap enough now. Regarding the quality, you may be right that most of the audience will not notice. But I do, and there is no rationalization beyond that it bugs me. I'd put up money for competing in blind trials to pick 4:2:0 over 4:2:2. Poor me - I could save so much money. Having the X70 has been a kind of vindication. No more greenish greens, reddish reds. And I have much more latitude in post with 10-bit vs 8-bit. I mainly deliver for internet or small screen charity events, so no great shakes, but I much prefer 4:2:2/10bit to work with. Horses for courses I guess.

Regarding the card space, XAVC-L compresses HD to 50 MB/s - so that's not a problem.
It's 50 Mb/s, NOT MB/s - a very big difference! :-)

I'd put up money for competing in blind trials to pick 4:2:0 over 4:2:2. Poor me - I could save so much money.
Well, I'd be happy to take your bet! Of course, it depends on what the trial is, but on straightforward shooting/viewing - even on a very high quality monitor - I would be very, very surprised if anyone could tell the difference without extreme pixel peeping.

And to an extent depends what the format is. The whole rationale behind the existence of 4:2:2 stems from interlace, and in such a system there are indeed valid reasons for not subsampling vertically, at least at the acquisition end of the chain.

For a progressive system all that goes away and it is far more sensible to have a symmetrical system - 4:2:0 or 4:4:4.

And I have much more latitude in post with 10-bit vs 8-bit. I mainly deliver for internet or small screen charity events, so no great shakes, but I much prefer 4:2:2/10bit to work with. Horses for courses I guess.
Ah, now 10 bit is a different matter. For most material 8 bit is fine, but it's when you get into the world of log curves and such that 10 bit really gets important.

It's also worth saying that 4:2:2/10 bit codecs have traditionally gone hand in hand with higher end codecs with higher bitrates, so less overall compression - and the latter can make a huge difference to how material may stand up in post. But such doesn't have the "headline" nature of "4:2:2", even though practically it may be the compression factor that is really making most difference.

New Sony FS5 footage...

VideON | First Look At What The PXW-FS5K Can Do | XDCAM HD Products (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/channels-xdcam_hd_products/video-FirstLookAtWhatThePXWFS5KCanDo/)