Had a long chat with another video guy yesterday and we started discussing the 'edit' and where most of the time goes.

It seems that we can break the edit down in to the following major areas:

• Ingest, sort & keyword
• Sync & Edit Multicam (for those that do multicam) for
-- Ceremony
-- Speeches
-- First Dance
• Edit the highlights film (either short 5 mins or longer 20 mins)
• Colour correction / grading
• Audio mixing / sweetening
• Export master file
• Compress for disc
• DVD / Blu-ray menu design
• Disc Label & Inlay Design
• Disc Production
• Other misc tasks

I was wondering where you all spend your time and roughly how much time you spend in each area for the 'average' wedding you do?

For those who have never done this exercise it may be a good one to do to figure out where you make / lose your money!

Thoughts?

That's pretty much what I do - I don't keyword my clips however - I create a timeline for each part of the day and drop the clips in the relevant ones as I'm sorting them.

My processional editing takes a shockingly large amount of time, but, yes, that's pretty close for me.

For me, before I'm ever in my editor, I dump all the files into a folder, then sort them into sub folders by part of the day (prep, ceremony, reception, dancing). Then I change their names in bulk. So when I go look for ceremony files in my editor, they're labeled ("ceremonybride.mov" "ceremonyrear.mov" and "ceremonygroom.mov)

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I create my full length documentary edit first, pulling the best clip from each moment to the top line of my NLE. Later, when I go to make highlights, I cut away what I won't be using. (separate project save files, of course) That means I go from having a 90 minute project, then a 20 minute, then the 5'er last.

I guess what I was wondering was more like "how much time do you spend in each section of the process" for an average wedding?

• Ingest, sort & keyword ........45 minutes
• Sync & Edit Multicam (for those that do multicam) for
-- Ceremony ...........2hrs (3cams)
-- Speeches.............1-2 hours depending on length or twice real time (2 cams)
-- First Dance............and about 10mis of extra dancing 30mins (2 cams)
• Edit the highlights film ......Don't usually do one but allow 2 hours if asked
• Colour correction / grading .......30minutes after ingestion
• Audio mixing / sweetening ...... 15 mins to equalise and compress
• Export master file .............Don't export separately, DVD made from timeline overnight, save is automatic
• Compress for disc.............Only compress to MP4 if USB required, again overnight or down time.
• DVD / Blu-ray menu design........10 minutes changing template menu to new wedding
• Disc Label & Inlay Design...........15 minutes changing basic templates and adding pics
• Disc Production............Initial overnight (see above) extras 10 minutes each
• Other misc tasks............Archiving master Disc files and artwork 10 minutes

Total 7-8 hours plus overnight for master rendering., which usually takes about 3 hours.

Roger

Copy files to HDD into folders for the different parts of the day, each labelled with a number beginning with 01, then 02 etc. so I can ingest with folders as keywords using XML. (2 hours for ingest and folders)
Copy to Server and go to sleep. (1 minute)
• Sync & Edit Multicam (for those that do multicam) for
-- Ceremony (5 hours)
-- Speeches (5 hours)
-- First Dance (don't do this as yet - but had a request to do so for my next wedding)
• Edit the highlights film (either short 5 mins or longer 20 mins) (Most of my time spent here - must take around 20 hours)
• Colour correction / grading (3 hours)
• Audio mixing / sweetening (1 hour)
• Export master file (in Compressor, can take a couple of hours)
• Compress for disc (Use Handbrake, takes an hour or two - usually do a HQ for USB and LQ for DVD)
• DVD / Blu-ray menu design (An hour in iDVD)
• Disc Label & Inlay Design (An hour for case design)
• Disc Production (Can take up to 2 days for iDVD to sort everything and output the film - don't know if this is the norm?)
• Other misc tasks (Like speaking to the bride etc? Meet once, countless emails and prep (because I'm new and want every part of the day carefully managed) Takes about 4 hours - hour meet - hour journey - 2 hours planning and an hour in liason.

Total: Around 44 hours.

I am happy with time, as the day's shoot is just fun! :)

In reality, I take a while with the short film highlights, and as yet, only offer around 8 minute films. I'm also slow at editing at the minute, as I often run into noob issues that I kick myself for having.

Craig

In comparison to Roger, I am a failure haha! I hope to halve most of those times eventually, but I guess I will get more of a workflow with time, and know what looks right, rather than still experimenting.

Craig, I have been filming and editing for over 30 years. and a lot of my filming is done with the editing in mind, so visual flow is captured at the filming stage much of the time. It cuts editing time substantially. You'll save time as you get into a routine and find shortcuts and workarounds that you are happy with :-)

Roger

Craig, I have been filming and editing for over 30 years. and a lot of my filming is done with the editing in mind, so visual flow is captured at the filming stage much of the time. It cuts editing time substantially. You'll save time as you get into a routine and find shortcuts and workarounds that you are happy with :-)

Roger

Thanks Roger! I hope to do so!!!

Looking forward to my next weddings in the Summer! I had the opportunity to second shoot the other week, and learnt a lot from doing that too, even though our workflows were completely different!

Looking forward to seeing how others breakdown their times!

Thanks for the helpful comments,

Craig

Hi Craig

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking 44 hours to do an edit as LONG as you cost it into your price. I do mine in probably a quarter of that time and that's cos I also, like Roger, shoot for editing. My lucrative market requires me to cost out around $75 an hour and 20 to 25 hours tops which has to include the shoot and the edit. I'd love to kick back and take 44 hours to edit BUT if I did that my packages would need to be at least $4500 if I want to make my hourly rate and the market just doesn't support that amount for a solo operator!

Seems the guys that have been around for a while can edit quickly, because we used to have to edit in camera, its something that stays with you. I shot my first wedding in 1982 on 3/4 inch Umatic using 20 minute tapes. This could be edited down to VHS with reasonable results. Then along came portable VHS and Betamax. Original VHS was excellent, all 240 lines of it !!! Edited VHS was awful. A-B roll editing sytems were expensive, about £8500 in the early 90s. I became an expert in editing in camera, I had to, couldnt afford an edit set up. Quite a few weddings in the early days were edited completely in camera, It was the only way to give the customer a tape of good quality. And as Roger pointed out, it makes you think about the shots you are taking.
BTW My average edit time was 2 to 3 days

Hi Colin

In the Full VHS days, what I would do is make up an optical title (usually the wedding invitation) and then film it and put the tape to one side until the actual wedding day but already with it's labels on. On the day it was all edit in camera until the couple were off to their car with the mandatory tin cans tied to the back. I would then eject the tape and hand it to the couple ...they got a virgin recording and an instant wedding video and I had no editing to do.

As you have already said when I compare what I still shoot now and then look at other guys raw footage I can see why people are talking about 40 to 60 hours!! Gosh, on 90% of my footage all I have to do is top and tail the clip and I am done ... not sitting for hours trying to stitch together tiny segments of video!

Chris

I think editing in camera is a lost art with the new breed of camera operator out there. The time saving when you work that way is phenomenal. I am always counting the length of each shot as I take it and making sure that the next one is part of the flow.

Roger

this is how mine works out
• Ingest, sort & keyword
• Sync & Edit Multicam for
-- Bridal Prep
-- Arrival
-- Ceremony
-- Greeting line
-- Photoshoot
-- Arrival at reception
-- Speeches
-- Guest messages
-- First Dance
• Edit full feature first then the highlights film (15 mins)
• Colour correction / grading
• Audio mixing / sweetening
• Export master file
• Compress for disc
• DVD / Blu-ray menu design
• Disc Label & Inlay Design
• Disc Production
• Other misc tasks
I usually do maybe two three hours a day sometimes less at times i might only go at it three times in the week depending on time, as I do other stuff too, still photography, IT work etc.

but I imagine it'd be around the 30/40 hours total

I can see why people are talking about 40 to 60 hours!! Gosh, on 90% of my footage all I have to do is top and tail the clip and I am done
Thats the way Chris. Old habits are hard to dismiss

I think editing in camera is a lost art with the new breed of camera operator out there. The time saving when you work that way is phenomenal. I am always counting the length of each shot as I take it and making sure that the next one is part of the flow.

Roger

You have to remember that not all those who film and edit are the same people. In the industry, there are those skilled in filming and those skilled in editing. Now I don't approach my own business that way as I handle both, in most cases. However when I film, I prefer to focus on filming and not on the editing. That doesn't mean my experience as an editor hasn't influenced my filming, but when I film, I film to grab as much footage as possible. This does increase the editing time in logging this footage, but allows me to be more creative in post production, especially as I offer two edits of the video. It's a different approach to yours but pays dividends for me.

Alas the industry is full of lost arts for the experienced Videographer to lament over. One day, my approach to videography will be a lost art.

Good points Steve, but it is also true that if a newbie to camera work has no experience or knowledge of older techniques, then they will learn and follow examples of current ones. As a veteran camerman, I could stick with techniques I have used for 30 years and be an old codger, but I also have the advantage of cherry picking modern ideas that I like, and feel add value to my knowledge and productions, rather than being just stuck in the past.

Roger

I have realized that for weddings, and other gigs, I really ought to start learning to edit in camera and be more selective with what I shoot. All capturing heaps of footage does is lengthen the edit time.

Just got a used Blackmagic pocket camera, which will somewhat force me into doing that.

It's certainly worth experimenting with Steven,, it's all part of the tools to add to the box. I suppose editing on camera is a throw back to linear editing and the need to be economical with shots, a bit like photographers experienced in using film will often take less shots that digital only photographers.

Roger

I spend the most time creating a highlight video.

Then I spend the most time "getting in to the main edit" I find it hard to decide on a opening song, picking the first 2 mins worth of scenes to ease the transition into the main feature.

Once i'm in to it it's pretty much just colour grading and picking clips as it happened on the day.

James, I don't get why you'd do it in that order, short form first, then full length?

I tried that and really didn't like it. There were always clips I missed, or better ideas. Now, I do the full length so that by the time I do the highlights, I've seen how all the footage turned out, and can make my best possible highlights.

Do you find a real advantage to doing highlights first?

Yeah, that would be back to front for me too! I like to do the complete long form edit so I know where all the juicy pieces are in the footage that will make up the high lights video. Of course if you are one of those editors that take their time and do the main edit over maybe 6 weeks or more I could see a quick trailer being done first so the bride has something to keep her happy in the meantime. We have our full edit and high light all out in a week or two at the most so a trailer isn't a necessity really and the high light video is only 8 or 9 minutes so that is our short contribution which also goes into our video albums.

When filming sports for a compilation DVD, 90% of the footage is worthless.
So to save time in post, when I film a "scene" that I know is worthless, I immediately film 2 seconds of a black frame (my hand over the lens)
Then after ingestion, I delete the worthless scene (and black frame) before Import

Likewise, when I capture a scene that I know is excellent, I film 2 seconds of a white frame (increase gain)
During Import, it is easy to see the white frame, and assign the previous scene 5-stars

. Of course if you are one of those editors that take their time and do the main edit over maybe 6 weeks or more I could see a quick trailer being done first so the bride has something to keep her happy in the meantime. We have our full edit and high light all out in a week or two at the most so a trailer isn't a necessity really and the high light video is only 8 or 9 minutes so that is our short contribution which also goes into our video albums.

A highlight serves a completely different purpose then a trailer, a trailer gets viewed online and is by far the best free advertisement tool so there is a good reason to do that first, I have always charged extra for a trailer and even after doubling the price for a trailer the couple, especially the brides to be, still wanted and paid for it. I am one of "those editors" that can't finish a edit every week but I finish the trailer before I finish the rest and I don't loose any time doing so.

The way I do it is as follows:

- copy the contents from every card as is, so I don't change it's structure or rename anything, so if I"m copying the contents from my rx10 I just make a folder named "rx10" and copy everything straight from that card to the folder, I do the same for all my other camera's and audio recorders. So I end up with a bunch of folders which each have a corresponding name of the device they have been taken from.
- I then make 2 new folders named "video_raw" and "audio_raw" and sort everything video and audio folders accordingly.
- In edius I just import those entire folders.
- in edius I make a new folder named "video_edit" and I drag all my videocontent (which comes from 6 different camera's) into that folder, here I only take the videofiles and ignore the file structure, I sort it according to date recorded and drag everything to the timeline into a sequence called "master" and place it on the first videotrack so it's on there in chronological order.
- Then I start editing and that means delete what is not good and cut back what I can use so I end up with usable material only which is on the timeline in chronological order.
- While I do that I select parts that are usable for the trailer and lift those one track up.
- When it involves multicam edit, so long continuous files, I already sync those.
- Then I take my audio and check every single file to know what it is and rename it in the edius bin, so it gets names like "c24_groom", "h1_lectern", "dr05_altar", dr40_churchspeaker" and so on.
- I make a new folder called "audio_edit" and drag all my audio in there.
- Then I drag all audio to the parts where they belong and sync it all up
- I then do a rough cut of all my multicam recordings.

This finishes up the first preperationpart

- Then I make the trailer first, since I allready preselected the good parts that saves me a lot of time and from the ceremony I only need the keyparts, for speeches I also have preselected the interesting part and raised those one level up on the timeline.
I just duplicate the entire "master" sequence that contains all my footage and rename it to "trailer" and there I edit the trailer.
When the trailer is finished I export as a mp4 file and upload directly to vimeo.
- I duplicate the master sequence again and call it "highlights" and start editing from there, my "master" sequence is my base so if I mess anything up I can still take a new copy from the master sequence which contains all roughly cut files.
- Each time I reach a part that needs to be used completely and partially in the edit, like the ceremony or speeches I duplicate the "highlight" sequence again and name it accordingly, like "ceremony" and delete all non relevant stuff before and after the ceremony and finish the ceremony completely, do the colorcorrection, set the levels from my audio so all that's left is a sequence with the finished ceremony.
- That entire ceremony I copy and replace it with the ceremony I have in the highlight" sequence and I repeat that with the speeches, acts from friends and first dance.
- Then I only need to cut back the longer parts in the highlight sequence which are allready color- and audio corrected and just add music to the other parts from brideprep, ceremony and so on.
-Once the edit is finished I set up a batchexport for all sequences to hqavi and mp4. the mp4 is for the usb stick that the couple get and the hqavi is to make my dvd's in tmpgencauthoring works, I find hqavi is much easier to work with when I build the dvd.

It sound complicated but if you see it in action in Edius it's pretty straightforward and quick to handle.

I work in a similar way with Vegas.

I guess everyone has their own way of working.

Noa that's interesting to see how you work and isn't dissimilar to my own way of working in Magix.

I ingest the footage from each camera and audio recorder into separate folders named by camera or situation, so A Cam, B Cam, Church Audio, Speeches Audio Etc.. I click on the A Cam folder to open it in the Magix bin, then drag the entire contents onto the time line and colour grade it. As it is already in sequence and a lot is edited in camera, it is mainly top and tailing clips which is very quick.

Ceremony and speeches etc which have B and sometimes C cams plus Audio recorders are also dragged to the timeline on parallel tracks, then a quick click on the tracks to be synchronised,creates a wave form and lines them all up automatically I then colour grade and match the extra camera tracks, and double clicking on an audio track takes me into the audio cleaning and mastering, for any compression, EQ tweaking etc directly on the timeline. That is also only a couple of minutes to do, then it's just a matter of selecting which shot I want as it runs, and a final adjustment and adding transitions. Transitions are also ver quick by either clicking on the required clip join to open a transition selector, or dragging one clip over the next. Titling is also done straight from the time line as you probably do in Edius, a menu from one of my usual templates and DVD or USB also from the timeline.

On the odd occasion thaI do a short version, I would use the same timeline and delete all the bits I don't want, then add any slomo or extra effects.

Once you have a familiar pattern of working, it's pretty quick and straightforward.

Roger