Just wondering if anyone here has moved to Sennheiser AVX kit yet, and if so, how do you like it?

I placed it in the basket on B&H, but then went to read the manual to make sure there was nothing weird about it. Found a concern.

"Displaying or adjusting the receiver‘s audio output
level

To display and correctly adjust the receiver‘s output level:
Make sure that the radio link is established.

If your video or DSLR camera has an automatic level control, the automatic
level control must be deactivated.

The receiver also has an automatic level control which cannot be deactivated.
If both the automatic level control of the video camera and the automatic
level control of the receiver are active, they will interfere with one
another."


ALC ONLY? At least the transmitters have a 4 selection gain switch in the menu. But seriously, ALC?

Also, the combo kit comes with an MD42 omni capsule, the handheld purchased alone comes with an e835 cardoid capsule. You can buy and change capsules anytime you wish, but the packages are fixed.

MANUAL: http://en-us.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/5578/AVX_Manual_06_2015_EN.pdf

Paul

You are thinking with your analogue head on! The Line 6 systems I use are very similar, reading the blurb.

The key is that the dynamic range is really huge - so in my case, a singer can stick the lips onto the mic grill and belt, without the transmitter distorting, yet I can put one on a stand and hear people at a distance without much noise at all. The receiver has a variable output level, as the Sennheiser does, to match the receiver to the type of input. If you use the auto level control on the camera or recorder, you will just squash the available dynamic range, and possibly push it into distortion, if you have the output too high. On my systems, all I do is treat it like a good microphone, and set the output to the maximum anticipated input level of the recorder or mixer, then back off a tiny bit. I suspect the Sennheiser is exactly the same. Very wide potential dynamic range, with a stepped output level. I can see the point of an auto gain control for a few applications, but not this one. I see no automatic level adjustment in the Sennheiser. Just adjustable output and a sensible warning about auto gain 'interfering', which may be just a poor choice of word. On my systems, it is possible to run out of fader travel - yesterday a dance show with both a belter, yelling into one, and some little kids in a choir who hardly made any sound. The fader was nearly off for one and needed a little extra gain for the other. Any form of auto gain would have to have a VERY wide range of adjustment to have coped.

The spec on these Sennheisers seems very similar to the Line 6s I'm using. If I needed a camera version, Line 6 don't make one, so I would be happy to try a Sennheiser, as my Line 6 experience has been very good.

Saw an interview with a Sennheiser guy, and his explanation was more akin to a very good LIMITER, with no "pumping" up of lesser sounds when the input decreases. I figured I would take a chance, so I order a full 3 piece kit up, should arrive Thursday. :)

Paul

Well, turns out the ALC isn't a problem. What is the problem is that the audio signal is horrible, and unsuitable for EFP, or even memorable "vows" IMO. You know that shrill metallic ringing you get in high frequencies on a very low bitrate MP3? Well, that is what the AVX sounds like. Listen to the first use I had with it below. The effect is more obvious with a good pair of headphones, but the metallic tone is evident in the very first word out of my mouth. The YouTube conversion sounds exactly like the RAW camera clip, it's bad folks. This is using the stick ME2 lav.

https://youtu.be/m9Q8kF58F1M

Yuk that is very peaky at all the wrong frequencies, maybe the ME2 is more suited to analogue radio systems as mine don't sound like that on my G2's

I certainly not a fan of the ME2, but it does not sound like a mic issue. I also heard one or two 'hits' (of some kind). Maybe the system is faulty.
I assume Sennheiser would check out the system and repair or replace it, especially since Paul has credibility.

I also have a reputation for not being happy with products, and complaining about them. :-)

So, can a lav mic actually be bad to a point where it can sound like that? I have another mic off a G something Sennheiser system that would plug into the lav transmitter, I will test that out tonight.

Paul

I'm noticing your definite American accent more than any other issue. :-P

Andrew

Americans have no accent, we are like wine devoid of flavor, water if you will, no taste. :-P

Paul

Here is another test, done with a replacement lav plugged in, and also on a different camera. The MP3 sound is still present, but more noticeable in this clip is the UNCONTROLLABLE over-modulation, evident in the voice rattling and buzzing at it's peaks. Since this system offers absolutely NO LEVEL or GAIN adjustments for the microphone transmitter, you are basically stuck with these issues.

For reference, I turned down the audio INPUT on my camera until the VU was PeAKING around -20db, or halfway up my VU meter. Turning it up or down has no effect on the microphone problems, it just increases or increases the level of the received GARBAGE. This is the exact same reason I sold off my $170 Sony Bluetooth MIS wireless system. It also offered NO mic gain control, so I got the same uncontrollable over-modulation. It was more convenient, just pop it n the MIS shoe, but it cost almost 10x less.

I am rereading the manual to see if I possibly missed something, but I was pretty afraid of the damn ALC, but went ahead with my purchase based on another Paul's post above.

https://youtu.be/LCSQWFCyaMw

Hello Paul
The audio output of the AVX may be too loud causing an overload of the camera audio input. Try to set the level to the lowest possible by pressing the "AF Out" button on the AVX receiver repeatedly until only one red LED is on. This should solve it. If not you may contact me at sven.boetcher@sennheiser.com. I hope this helped.

Both those clips sound OK to me. What am I missing. There are a few parts where the high frequencies clip just a bit. But if you are doing news capture stuff, maybe it doesn't matter so much. It's run and gun stuff. I think the sound is pretty good.

Thank you for interacting with customers Sven. :-)

The last clip was using a lav mic from a G3 system, hoping to improve the audio, and I wrap the lav cord around the receiver when I put it in my pocket, so I didn't want to hurt the brand new ME2! Is it possible the old G3 mic is too hot for the transmitter?

Paul

Both those clips sound OK to me. What am I missing. There are a few parts where the high frequencies clip just a bit. But if you are doing news capture stuff, maybe it doesn't matter so much. It's run and gun stuff. I think the sound is pretty good.

For ENG, this is totally acceptable. If you got hired by 20/20 or the BBC for an EFP gig, you might not be so lucky. For a small handheld camera (even like the Sony X70), I can see NO BETTER system to use, simply because it is so small and convenient, and it is impractical for handheld shooting extended periods to have a huge receiver bolted on in some way. I use a wireless very rarely, so the fact that I don't even realize there is a receiver attached to the camera is a HUGE deal!

The cheap G3 systems I have used a lot sound better, no "digital" sound to them, and are much cheaper if you don't need such a tiny device. Relax, it's a G3. :-P

Paul

"I wrap the lav cord around the receiver when I put it in my pocket"
- How do you do that?... The lav goes w/ the transmitter The receiver has an output cable.

"I didn't want to hurt the brand new ME2!"
- Even brand new, the ME2 is not a very good sounding mic. I recommend upgrading, regardless of what system is used. You could use the ME2 for a spare.. or for putting it in harm's way.

"Is it possible the old G3 mic is too hot for the transmitter?"
- I wouldn't think so. Does the transmitter have some kind of gain setting?

Yes transmitter, the receiver has no cord.

I don't want to mess up the new lav cable with crimps, because I am not 100% sure I will keep this system. I did tie a knot in the cable below the lav head, because it was making so much noise from holding it while testing.

As the post states, the transmitters on the AVX system have an automatic leveling control........your guess is as good as mine.

Paul

I wrap the lav cord around the receiver when I put it in my pocket, so I didn't want to hurt the brand new ME2! Is it possible the old G3 mic is too hot for the transmitter?


This is a dangerous habit - I have seen far too many broken lavs by people doing this.

If the lav is still plugged-in, then many people pull the cable too tight and it can break the cabe at the point where it exits the plug.

If I ever do this, I always add two fingers for the first loop so that there is absolutely no strain on the cable.

I learned that a few years ago when the kinked over bayonet connector on my Azden transmitter caused it to cut out and rock side to side. The pin holes widened, so since then, I do that leaving an inch or so of loop so that there is never a tight bend on the cord. :)

Paul

I learned that a few years ago when the kinked over bayonet connector on my Azden transmitter caused it to cut out and rock side to side. The pin holes widened, so since then, I do that leaving an inch or so of loop so that there is never a tight bend on the cord. :)

Paul

Perfect :-)

for me the major issue with the system is the short battery life of the receiver and no replacement battery available. I use a g3 now and audio technica system10 both handheld only (I don't use lavs). The digital systems are the future in my opinion , but I can't work with such a short battery life and no battery to carry when the original goes down, no way, and recharging while working is absolutely out of the question, same for a portable battery stick for cell phones that needs to charged too and I wouldn't know where to put them around the camera, no way again. 8-10hrs is the absolute minimum to work, 3-4hrs are good for testing, not when working with a million of other things to be concerned of, last thing I wanna do is to worry about my thousand dollar and change wireless system's short battery.

What camera are you shooting on Paul as it may be that the camera is a fault rather than the sennheiser mic?

The two cameras I have tested this on were a Sony X180 and a JVC HM790. I haven't used the system again since the video I posted. I really have no emotional attachment to this thing, will probably sell it on eBay shortly.

Paul

Was able to play with my AVX system more tonight. I was able to get high quality non digital sounding audio this time, off the lav as well as the handheld transmitter. Previously, I had set the receiver LEVEL OUT to a moderate setting, then set the camera record level so that it pumped pretty. Well, that resulted in overmodulated sound at low camera rec levels, and a very low bitrate MP3 metallic ting to the sound. This time, I set the receiver output level VERY LOW. Both the handheld as well as the lav transmitter now sound perfectly clear, even on T's and S's, which would have been metallic with the previous receiver level settings.

So I guess the lesson is to set receiver output levels super low, then turn up your camera record level. High receiver level and low camera rec level, although pretty on the VU meter, will result in low quality audio.

Paul

I used the AVX MD42 handheld for a live shot this morning. I rolled in camera on it as well. The MD42 performed very well in a very loud environment. The AVX system sounds a bit compressed, but that may be the dynamic range compression with all that blasting input. Perhaps the AVX compression doesn't work as well when the limits are reached, or levels are not perfectly optimized within their "happy zone"?

Must mention, I had the cameras low cut in effect to cut the background rumble.

http://youtu.be/KsUoa2KNDJ8

Paul

Paul,

When I see a news clip like that two things always surprise me. One, that professional on camera reporters do not know enough about mic usage to help you battle all of that background noise by utilizing better mic placement of the handheld. Two, that you the camera operator are not teaching your reporter to get that mic up closer to his grill to help battle the background noise?

I know they are reporters and do not want the mic in their face performer style. But he has plenty of room to help you out and still keep it out of his face. I sometimes see field reporters waving a handheld around belly style like total amateurs. Or my favorite is when they use the mic to point at something while they are talking......really??? How does that happen when two professionals should know better?

Kind Regards,

Steve

Steve, your last comment is why I was hesitant to get the cardoid e835 AVX! Also, I seldom utilize a wireless or work with reporters, which is why the AVX receiver is perfect for my camera.

Paul

Speaking of short receiver battery life, it should be technically possible to POWER the receiver using the USB ports common on most new cameras. My PXW-X180 has a network USB2 port, and a host USB3 port. I just tested this using the network USB2, and it did indeed activate the red LED charge light.

Also, aftermarket batteries for the receivers and transmitters are available, I checked that before I purchased, 3-4 hours is not very long.

Paul

Also, aftermarket batteries for the receivers and transmitters are available, I checked that before I purchased, 3-4 hours is not very long.

Paul
Paul
I only use a wireless handheld for street interviews and I'm petty much sold to the system10. The mic is first class, the batteries last forever and as long as I stay withing 5-7 ft (10 tops) from the mic I get zero problems , unlike the G3 that in NYC was a hit&miss lately.
From what I saw (heard) the sennheiser digital doesn't even produce good audio , even with that jewel of a microphone.
The short battery and the need to rely on gadgets to power (after spending that kind of money) was the last blow.

In case you want to try the system 10 and beside the poor performance past 10ft (random, but it's there), the only thing that you should worry about is to tell the interviewer to DON'T keep the microphone attached to the mouth. at least 3inches away. Great audio, bass, presence, moderate delay. and it's 2.4GHz. No more UHF headaches!
One more thing (again for street interviews) : the e835 of the G3 is excellent but the mic of the system 10 is even better isolating the background noise and still keeping a good range in case the interviewer forgets to point it to the right mouth. Better than the e835 in that regard, and that was important to me.

Just for the people bemoaning the short battery life of the receiver...

IT'S PHANTOM POWERED. :)
(according to Senny)

I just cracked open two of these and are putting them through the paces now.

The receivers power BUTTON may be phantom powered, but the receiver itself is NOT phantom powered, it needs to have a battery attached to it to operate.

Paul

"The receivers power BUTTON may be phantom powered"
- Sorry Paul, that doesn't make much sense.

"IT'S PHANTOM POWERED (according to Senny"
- According to everything I've read as well, PP will power the receiver. A receiver certainly cannot power a microphone.. and how could it.

I just received AVX combo system & I think that having the phantom power on to your XLR that has AVX receiver attached to it will act as the on/off switch to receiver. So when you power up camera the receiver
will turn on with camera & stay on till you power camera off. Saves you from pushing power button on
receiver. It will not charge or power the AVX receiver.

Sorry, guess I was mistaken. I checked with my acquaintance at Sennheiser USA and he stated "Phantom Power triggers the AVX EKP receiver it to turn ON.. the absence of it, triggers it OFF. The rechargeable BA 20 Accupack battery runs it for about four hours"

Paul,

When I see a news clip like that two things always surprise me. One, that professional on camera reporters do not know enough about mic usage to help you battle all of that background noise by utilizing better mic placement of the handheld. Two, that you the camera operator are not teaching your reporter to get that mic up closer to his grill to help battle the background noise?

I know they are reporters and do not want the mic in their face performer style. But he has plenty of room to help you out and still keep it out of his face. I sometimes see field reporters waving a handheld around belly style like total amateurs. Or my favorite is when they use the mic to point at something while they are talking......really??? How does that happen when two professionals should know better?

Kind Regards,

Steve

LOL true but in defense of the reporters I want to say that's not easy for them, at all. Even the experienced ones forget to point the mic to the right mount sometimes. Then they change all the time and the new generation is more concerned with stuff like "we don't have a teleprompter???" .. yeah right, now I put a TV screen on top of my camera that weights a ton because they don't want to memorize anything anymore. Beside that I have to admit that's not easy and they do have many other things to remember, and often when I'm done explain the basics and the red light of the camera goes off they immediately forget everything trying to remember what to ask to the talent.

Steven you try once, I did and it's not easy when you see that red light and the lens looking at you waiting and you must start ..talking and make sense... honestly it is not easy :)

For decades the EV RE50 (omni) has been the answer to mic placement mistakes. Today I get the best possible (between background noise isolation and a decent range in case they forget to point it to the talking mouth and person) with the handheld of the system 10.

Then from my own small experience I see that most of the time they point the mic to the talent and then they ask another question but the mic is still pointed to the talent. One way to solve this is to put a lav on them, so... problem solved. But often there is no time to wire them up so we pray for the best :)