I film lots of weddings each year and I've been doing everything I can to get really good audio during the speeches at the reception. While I can usually get a feed from a DJ's sound board that is "usable", it is often not great because I have to raise the levels significantly in post. I use a Tascam DR-40 which has a "Line" setting and accepts 1/4" or XLR cables. Usually the DJ at weddings will have an RCA out or a 1/4" out that he can give me, but they almost always say they aren't able to adjust the levels without adjusting how loud his speakers sound. So I need to find a way that I can raise the volume myself without adding much noise into the audio.

In most situations, even when I turn up the input volume on my DR-40 to it's maximum it's still pretty quiet. When I edit in Premiere Pro, I always have to duplicate the track vertically about 3-5 times which adds quite a bit of noise.

Right now I usually use an RCA to XLR adaptor or a 1/4" to XLR adaptor going straight from the sound board to my DR-40. I would like to find out if there is a better way to record audio from the DJ's board so that I can get a clean signal that's loud enough that I don't have to raise it in post.

I will mention that I have tried using a Rolls DB25b with my Sennheiser SKP 100 G3 transmitter and sending the signal directly to my G3 receiver on my camera. One time this worked great...but every other time I've used it I've heard quite a bit of noise making the audio unusable. Is there a better way to use the SKP 100 than what I'm doing with it right now? If so, what is that?

The other idea I've had is to bring my Behringer XENYX502 mixer and send a signal from the DJ's board to the mixer then send it to my DR-40. However, I've been told this will introduce a good amount of noise and reduce the quality of the audio. Any thoughts on this method?

So please let me know some ideas for getting a clean signal from the sound board that is loud enough that I don't have to boost in post.

Thanks!

Mike

The main problem here is that the DJ doesn't appreciate gain structures. Each piece of the puzzle has to be set properly for everything to work as it should. He likely has self-powered speakers, and he cranks the volume up on them (because more is better, right?) That means that he doesn't have to send much signal out from his board to get loud audio in the house. But, that affects the other outputs, too. Specifically the one you want to record from.

The answer is, unfortunately, you can't fix it. The only thing you could do is to grab the microphone's signal before it gets into the DJ's board. That means a transformer-isolated splitter (Whirlwind makes very nice ones: Microphone Splitters - Support - Whirlwind (http://whirlwindusa.com/support/tech-articles/microphone-splitters/)) I worked at a studio with a massive 48 channel split. It had 3 stage box inputs, a full rack of 48 isolated outs, and an additional stage box with direct outs. Pretty slick, but also overkill. The Whirlwind IMP SP1x2 should do it.

HOWEVER: The DJ probably won't like you unplugging his mics, if he even knows where they're plugged in to begin with. If he's using more than one mic or source that you want to record, then you need your own mixer (or a multitrack recorder,) and more splitters.

Hope that helps!

Yes, I agree with everything that Mr. Carlson said.

However, it seems odd that you had good levels from your Rolls DB25b only once.

The DB25b provides a very wide and continuously adjustable range of accommodation for incoming audio levels, from mic level up to line level, and even speaker level.

If you are really setting YOUR LEVELS properly (doing proper "gain staging" at least at your end) you shouldn't be seeing such consistently low levels.

If worse come to worst you could use auto-level just for the DJ feed. Assuming you aren't using the DJ's music (because you can't license it) Auto-Level may actually come in handy for random speeches.

And I agree that splitting every mic input is probably over the top in several dimensions.

I don't think anyone has ever called me Mr. Carlson. Huh.

Anyway, there are a million DJs out there. And many different ways they can set up their system. And I doubt many of their systems are set up properly (with regards to gain structure.) That's why it worked well once, but not the other times. The DB25b only does attenuation, not amplification (I have a similar box from Pro-Co, and it's a great tool to have) which is why you got low levels.

Pretty much everything said is correct. Most DJs are knuckleheads. I know, I'm one of them. In theory, yes, like Edward said, the DJ *should* be running his slider/knob/volume/gain positions at "unity" so that they're all similar. If he's cranking up the speakers, he shouldn't have the mixer board very low, or vice versa. Too often DJs don't know that.

So, that leaves you with pretty much these 5:
*mic the person directly yourself (or mic the mic)
*split the XLR between the DJ's mic receiver and his board, like Edward mentioned. Here you get the signal before the mixer.
* The RCA/XLR "Record Out" or similar duplicate output so that you're recording direct from the board
* Run an XLR out from a DJ's powered speakers (I chose my speakers in part because they have a separate speaker volume, but then, I'm a rare prize)
* put a mic/recorder a few feet in front of the DJ's speaker

All have their issues. #2 and 3 require you messing with the DJ's gear, or getting him to do it. You can ask, and some will be helpful. Others got the job after a 3 hour training course, make $12 an hour, and are one of 40 anonymous guys working for a company. They may not know what anything is, or how it works, and will definitely say no. In a pinch, you could even check the headphone jack. Not all will have the mic feed, but a decent board might. I've done that at a church who had a very nice mixer board but that I couldn't get to the back of it.

Running out of their speaker is usually the most line noise/hum because of a few reasons, but it will be the most reliable, if you can't get the direct feed.

Putting a mic in front of the speaker puts you at the mercy of the DJ and his volume control. Don't be shocked if the level you set early is demolished because once things actually started up, he turned it up by 25% or so because he's not smart enough to realize 200 people in a room sounds different than 20 when he checked his volume before.

Ahh, the ol' mic-in-front-of-the-speaker trick. I forgot about that one. The "mic the mic" is good, too. I've seen that before on the news. I guess they didn't have a handheld mic so they clipped a lav onto the podium mic.

The DB25b only does attenuation, not amplification (I have a similar box from Pro-Co, and it's a great tool to have) which is why you got low levels.

Well, the DB25b is a MIC-LEVEL OUTPUT device, so I maintain that there is no excuse for getting a level that is too low out of a DB25b. I have never had any problem with any of my DB25s in a wide variety of situations.

Assumedly if you give it something less than mic-level you'll get less than mic level. Since it isn't a powered device, I don't see how you could get a hotter signal out than what you put in. (You're assuming that the DJ's output is actually peaking around 0dB, which it probably isn't.)

Well, if you have "something less than mic level", then you would plug it directly into a mic-level input, would you not? You wouldn't need something like the DB25, etc.

I'm not sure where you would even find "something less than mic level" in even an improperly operated DJ system.

I m must say that I've never encountered any situation where I couldn't either take the signal directly, or else knock some odd-ball level down to proper mic level with the DB25.

I don't knoŵ whether or not you guys have problems I don't experience in the UK, but the only difference I can see is that you have a DJ controlling the speeches sound which is unusual here. You also seem to usually have a lectern for the speakers, which should make things comparatively easy. Which ever way you look at it, the best sound source is the speaker's mouth rather than the DJ's sometimes doubtful board output.

In the case of a lectern, why can't you simply put a voice recorder on the lectern, your mic will then be less than a metre from the speaker which should be fine with a uni directional mic, or attach the recorder to the mic as has been mentioned in other threads. If the speeches are at the top table, which is the most common in the UK, I simply use either a pair of voice recorders on the top table close to the speakers, or a single recorder with a split lead and two mics, or if they have a radio mic attach a recorder to the mic.

Roger

I agree with Roger. The most fool proof (DJ proof is you prefer) is to place the audio record at the speaker. While not perfect, and it will include some room noise and should provided reasonably consistent results., Perhaps have one channel recording 12 dB or so lower than the other to minimize potential for clipping.

I don't have a DR-40, so I can't help with pointers to check that some setting there is keeping it from successfully getting something useful even if the input signal is low.

You should go over it using the manual and check very carefully. These small recorders have deep and confusing menus and it's easy for something totally unintended to be set.

On my H4n, having phantom power ON definitely harms the signal when using the 1/4-inch combo connectors as an example.

Also if unbalanced to balanced cable adapters aren't wired correctly, that can greatly cut the signal down. If you have unbalanced connectors, I'd simply use a short unbalanced to unbalanced cable.

You could also use the Rolls DB25b with the DR-40 set to MIC level input. I know you tried it before with your transmitter, but I also find it hard to believe the majority of boards even if set terribly would be putting out something less than mic level.

Using your Behringer board to boost the signal from the DJ should not cause a problem as long as you're plugged into the same power as the DJ equipment and you aren't sending phantom power back to their board. And that you're using a properly wired cable connected to the right place with the right gain of course. Your board almost certainly has cleaner gain than the recorder.

The added benefit of using your recorder placed near the speaker if you go that route, is you also get at least a little level of the crowd walla in between anything playing from the DJ. And it will be consistent unlike moving around with your camera's onboard mic.

I can't see any advantage at all in taking your main audio for speeches from the DJ for many reasons. You are relying on the speaker using the mic correctly, the quality of the mic itself, the connection quality between mic and DJ board, either radio or wired, the quality and noise levels of the board, any extra hum or noise from other equipment plugged into that board, the connections between the board and your own system, and you are still worrying that the quality of your own Behringer mixer may lower the audio quality. I think that would be the least of your worries.

The shortest path is always the best, and a direct recording of the source through your own mic/s and recorder is by far the best solution, giving you complete control.

Roger

Roger, here in the U.S. its very unusual for a wedding to use a lectern. Typical is people use the DJ or hotel's mic near the head table. Parents or other folks who aren't the Best Man, MOH, or B&G are often not standing behind the head table.

All that is a roundabout way of saying a recorder at a spot, like on the lectern, won't work in 99% of situations. The number of people also mean mic'ing each speaker isn't an option. Strapping it to the mic, maybe, and we've talked about that on this board before.

Basically, if the DJ knows what he's doing and has decent gear, you'll probably be fine using him. If its the hotel's mic, you can see if the receiver is in the room and then use an XLR splitter to steal signal (banquet manager is the best person to talk to).

The earlier in the chain you get your mic signal from, the less likely you are to have line noise or hum.

There is nothing to be done about mic handling noise other than, for me as an MC/DJ, I talk to the speakers before we start about how to properly use the mic.

-----
Personally, we usually try a combination of a recording from the DJ mixer and a directional mic to a camera or recorder near the speakers as a backup.

Even as a DJ who knows what he's doing (a little), I've had audio signal trouble. One facitlity, a town hall/community center had a noticeable hum in my gear even though I have gear to eliminate that. Nothing I can do about it since its their electrical, not my gear.

Hi Robert, I mentioned the lectern, because of lot of people on the forum in the U.S., seem to mention speeches from a lectern. In the UK, I have never come across it in 30+ years, but my point was still the same, which is that the sound is coming out of the mouth, so the nearer you can get to it the better.

I would never mic a loudspeaker for speeches, because so many people have no idea how to use a mic and either overload it or speak too far from it. If you are wedding videographer and recording the speeches, you really should be able to record them without going through a chain of someone else's gear. If they are using a hand mic, then it is easy enough to attach a small portable recorder. Alternatively, if they are passing a mic around, they can just as easily move a small sound recorder to the table in front of them. I have never had a problem recording speeches with a couple of uni directional mics if all the speakers are on or behind the top table. It's also very easy to have a quick word with the speakers beforehand, to let them know what you would like, otherwise they will be completely oblivious of your needs.

Roger

First, Michael, I am glad you made this post here in the audio forum as it should be. There are some VERY knowledgeable people here to help. Audio threads are common in the wedding forum but this is where they should be.

Please check you Tascam settings for the input your using and see if it is set to LINE LEVEL. I think you might be inputting mic level signals into line level? A complaint of a DJs signal being to weak is rare, most guys complain about it being to hot. I don't mean to be too elementary but I have to ask.

There are so many good ways to get a good signal from a board and just as many bad ways to do it. I understand mixers so I am trying to think like a DJ standing behind one and not knowing what he is doing. If I was you I think I would ask a DJ for the feed I wanted instead of "can I have a feed?" The later might get one of a number of outputs from the board that he might be afraid of and unwilling to adjust so you get a weak signal. What if you were to ask for the "Tape Out" feed (not my normal first choice). That way YOU know what your going to get. It is going to be a consumer line level at -10db, it will contain the entire mix so multiple mics will be there if used, it can be adjusted without changing his output, and you can send it through your Rolls to give you a known output/input level. I think just about any idiot behind a board knows what the Tape Out is for. There are often a number of other sends on a board amateurs do not understand.

Rodger, I think getting a feed from the DJ at a wedding is a great thing to do for ONE of your records. I think you have probably seen enough of my audio posts to know I am a big advocate of recording more than one high quality source. Especially in the crazy unpredictable wedding environment. I back up everything.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I don't disagree with getting an audio feed from the desk as a backup and always do for music and performance work, but in the UK it is extremely rare to have a mixing desk of any sort for the speeches at a wedding, so I am used to miking the source most of the time.

Having been heavily involved in audio engineering for many years, I am also aware of the difficulties involved with the ad hoc connection of various unmatched bits of equipment, and the many ways of picking up hiss, hum, distortion etc. For me I like to be in control of my audio, especially at weddings where the levels of professionalism vary enormously.

In a theatre or music environment Steve, I would always take the main audio from the desk, but would expect to find a decent desk and an engineer with at least some basic knowledge of his system. Plus there are likely to be a multitude of mics being mixed. Even so, my backup is always using my own equipment to get perhaps just a stereo pair in case of an audio disaster.

Unfortunately in the UK, most sound systems available for wedding speeches seem to be a wireless mic held together with gaffer tape and plugged into a 20 year old hi-fi amp and usually with a nearly flat battery In the mic.

Roger

Roger,

Agree 100%.....That is why good audio for video is not easy. Guys like us with a background in live sound reinforcement and audio recording in addition to video production have a distinct advantage over guys that got into this as video only guys. Even in corporate AV you can not count on the sound guy behind the desk to be real knowledgeable. Their skill level varies tremendously.

I have not had an audio problem I could not overcome on a video shoot in many years. I had one last month that did not turn out to be what I wanted it to be. It was at the only wedding I have ever done ;-) ;-) ;-) But that's another story, maybe I will put it in the private section.

Steve

One thing I like about weddings is that you have to expect the unexpected, especially when it comes to audio and after over 30 years of them, I always find a way to get what I need and the thinking on your feet keeps it exhilarating :-)

Roger

Thanks for all the replies! I won't be able to respond to each of them, but fortunately they seem to point towards similar ideas. One thing I noticed that really caught my attention is that Richard asked about my settings on the Rolls DB25b. I'm much more knowledgeable about video than audio, so with the DB25b I believed that if I turned attenuator to -20 and leave it there then that would work for pretty every sound board as long as I was given a line out. So when I've used my SKP 100, I've always had the attenuation turned at -20 and while it worked the first time back in April, it hasn't worked any of the other times I used it.

So my question is, how do I know what level to set it at?

I want to mention that this year I have been placing the DJ's mic on a mic stand for most speeches which has helped to ensure they don't hold the mic too low. I tried placing a G3 transmitter with an ME 2 taped near the top of the mic stand and the sound was decent, but I think the person's mouth was too far from the lav because it didn’t sound great. Last week I purchased this microphone bar so that I can mount the DJ's mic next to my Electro-Voice RE50B which is connected to my Sennheiser SKP 100.

K&M 23550 Adjustable Microphone Bar 23550-500-55 B&H Photo Video


I have not yet tried it out yet, but my hope is that this will be a good option when there’s enough time to set up a mic stand for the person speaking. However, sometimes people will just grab the DJ’s mic and give a speech without us knowing in advance, which means the mic stand is not always the best option. Because of this, I want to make sure I am recording the feed from the DJ so that everything that goes through his mic gets recorded by us.

I like the idea that was mentioned about using a microphone splitter because it will bypass the DJ’s board altogether. However, I’ve met some DJs who have been hesitant to allow me to plug into their board with my DR-40, so I’m sure those same ones would be even less willing to let me split the signal. This seems like a good option when the DJ is very willing to work with me but I also need a backup in case they say "I can give you a feed but I don't want to split the mic signal before it enters the board".

The other option that really caught my attention is to put my G3 transmitter with the ME-2 on a stand right near the DJ’s speaker. This would probably be the simplest way to do it because I can control the levels on my camera. My questions is, how good will the quality be compared to using a microphone splitter and sending the audio directly into the Tascam DR-40? If it’s almost as good then I could use the mic stand with my microphone bar and RE50B and then also place the G3 with ME-2 near the speaker so that all my bases are covered.

I could also try to bring my Behringer XENYX502 mixer and just see how it sounds in conjunction with my DR-40. I had previously been told that this would introduce lots of noise, but if it ends up sounding pretty good then that would be another good option.

So I guess the two questions that I have are:

How do I know where to set the level of the Rolls DB25b?

How do you think the quality will be when placing my G3 transmitter with ME-2 near the DJ's speaker?

Thanks!

Mike

How do you think the quality will be when placing my G3 transmitter with ME-2 near the DJ's speaker?

Michael, I will take just this part of your questions and leave the rest to others. My answer is don't even think about using an ME2 to mic a speaker. It could possibly be one of the worst mics you could pick for that task. Lavaliere mics in general are very proximity sensitive. The ME2 is Sennheisers all around "kit" mic for lack of a better term. Meaning it is not one of their really good mics. And it is not good at all for micing a loud speaker, wrong mic for the job. Your EV would be much better. Better yet, spend $99.00 and put a Sure SM58 in your kit. The SM58 has been $99.00 since Ben Franklin put a key on that kite. You could hand one to Mic Jagger and he would not scoff at it. And if your building a set and loose your hammer you can pound nails with it. It will also work on your mic bar or in front of a speaker. Every kit should have at least one SM58.

Steve

+1 for the Shure SM58, I have a couple of them that can be adapted to almost any situation. They are bullet proof and have stood the test of time.

Roger

DR40 low level issue: If using line level, be aware that the DR40s operating level is +4dB,. so if your input is from the DJ's RCA outs (-10dB), the level would be low... even if it is gain-staged properly.

Yes, the XLR output from the Rolls DB25 DI is mic level.. and if feeding an G2/3 SK100 transmitter, an appropriately wired XLR> 3.5mm cable must be used.. OTOH, an RCA output could be plugged directly into the transmitter using a line level configured cable. (ring terminal= hot; tip/sleeve= ground)
I too would not use a ME2 mic for a n y t h i n g. An SM57 or 58 would be a good choice for mic'ing a speaker cab.

I figured that the ME-2 wouldn't work very well for miking the DJ's speaker. I use them for the vows and they work well enough for the time being (I'm sure at some point I'll upgrade) but I really like the idea of using a Shure SM58 to mic the speaker because I can just put it on a mic stand, plug it into the DR-40 and I don't have to worry about taping or clipping a lav anywhere. Also, I just read the reviews for the SM58 and people seem to rave about it.

I have been setting my DR-40 to the "LINE" setting, but I wasn't aware that this was operating at +4db. So just to confirm, if I use the Rolls DB25b with the Tascam DR-40 set to "MIC", how do I know where to set the DB25b? Do you just hook it up and then adjust the DB25b to the point where you hear the least amount of noise?

I actually own two DR-40s so I could hook one up to the DJ's board and use another with the Shure SM58.

Thanks!

Mike

"if I use the Rolls DB25b with the Tascam DR-40 set to "MIC", how do I know where to set the DB25b? Do you just hook it up and then adjust the DB25b to the point where you hear the least amount of noise?"
- In this case I would set the DR-40 record volume to around 70% up and adjust the DI's pad for optimum levels on the recorder. Start with the Tascam's mic gain switch set to low, then increase to medium or high if needed.

"I just read the reviews for the SM58 and people seem to rave about it."
- To say the least... the legendary SM58 (vocal mic) has been used by everybody whose anybody.. from Frank, Mick, Paul, Robert, Bruce, Billy, Bono and on down the food chain. It was originally released in 1966 and has always been great sounding and pretty much indestructible. (I recall there's videos from Shure of 58's being dropped from helicopters and run over by tour buses and such) The sibling model SM57 (instrument mic) is very similar in sound and has been on every US president's podium since LBJ. It is also 'THE STANDARD' go-to mic for guitar amps and snare drums as well. There was also another sibling SM59 (vocal mic), that was primarily designed for TV, with a little less of a presence peak, it's smaller/slimmer body/pop filter and an elegant champagne color appearance. AFAIK, it wasn't in production for too long.

Mike, from my dumb suggestion box: have you checked the integrity of your audio cables lately, preferably with a cable tester?

From a recent project, I discovered that one channel of a stereo signal appeared to be absent. In my NLE, I found that it was recorded, but about 25 dB lower than the other channel. All settings on my mixer and recorder were perfect, so I had about 5 minutes of utter frustration over what went wrong. On a hunch, I disassembled the XLR connectors on my mixer-->camera cable, and I discovered the culprit: a solder connection had broken within one connector.

Michael,

When hooking up to a mixer the tricky part is understanding what level the board is going to send you. If you know your own gear you know what it can be set to receive. I don't have a DR40 so I am glad that Rick clarified it's line level is Pro line level +4db.

Some Mixers can output three or four different levels or a combination of the four. And two of them are completely different but both called "Line Level":

+4db Professional line level
-10db Consumer line level
-20db Mic level
Speaker level - you find this on self powered boards, don't use it, it is coming from an amp.

Most mixers output Pro line level at +4db, the exception is the Tape Output will always be consumer line level -10db, it is there primarily because some of us used to record to analog tape ;-)

That is a simplified explanation. Not to mention sound mixer outputs are attenuated. Ninety nine percent of the time the level a DJ or band guy gives you before the gig starts is not what what you will get when things start rocking. Even though they should not change your feed to get more volume in the room they seem to do it somehow. That also depends on where your feed is coming from. In your case the rolls is your friend. You can input a variety of levels and It will give you a known level out to feed your recorder with - MIC LEVEL. Put together a kit with an assortment of patch cables and adapters if you have not done so already and you will be fine. A GOOD board feed is sometimes the best sounding audio signal you can get. Back it up the SM58 on a speaker cabinet and you have two sources right there. For me, I often have an XLR feed coming from the mixer straight into one channel on my camera. It is ALLWAYS monitored and adjusted live. I am very comfortable with that and it is usually the signal that ends up getting used, the others are back ups.

Steve

Steve, Steve, and Rick,

Thanks for this information. I just purchased a SM58 and a mic stand, so at the wedding this coming Saturday I will plan to hook it up to one of my DR-40s and place it in front of the DJ's speaker.

I will also see what happens when I use the DB25b with my other DR-40 and set it to "MIC" instead of "LINE".

Hopefully between the two of those I should be able to get what I need for the speeches. I'll still keep in mind the idea of using a mic splitter, but hopefully these two solutions will work for me.

Thanks to everyone for all the help!

Mike

Woah, I hope you understand I did not mean in any way this is what you should do to get your audio recording. We are trying to explain it is one good way to do it, sometimes. I think Rodger was the one that pointed out he does not like it at all because he goes in self contained not relying on anyone. At least one of your feeds has to be that way. H O P E can not be part of your audio equation. When you tie into a board or mic a cabinet you are hoping the DJ does not put you in the toilet even if you did your part. You are responsible for your own delivery.

The cool thing about audio is there is so many ways to do it. I advocate several of them because I use several of them. I back up everything with independent sources. This forum is littered with threads that say "help I have no audio", that is inexcusable, it must not happen. I have seen it happen on big time well funded events for various reasons, all of them come down to stupidity and finger pointing in the end.

Don't hope, have a fail safe signal somewhere in your plan :-)

Steve

Sharing equipment is always a risk. Getting access to other people's equipment requires tact and diplomacy. The upshot being a plan B is always required. A DI box and a recorder capable of working at -10dB levels can cover 99% of interconnections. A wireless receiver comes in handy too, I have a few Sennheisers laying around and as DJs here frequently use radio mics to do the three feet between them and the equipment, I can steal their signal. The differences in radio technical specs are rarely important for this kind of signal sharing, and with Shure and Sennheiser being popular with DJs here, a receiver can be very handy.

As many DJs now use powered speakers, there is often a very easy to get to empty output. A radio transmitter and a couple of adapters is simple to attach covertly, and nobody even notices it's there! Probably a good place for a small recorder too, but never done it yet.

Always useful to have something like the ART AV direct box so you can interface and control the levels better from even speaker outputs: ART Pro Audio (http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/di_boxes/product/av_direct/)

Keep in mine the DR-40 can only be mic/line switched globally, so one channel can't be mic and the other line, Furthermore, in line level mode, the record volume is only adjustable about plus/minus 10dB so some kind of external input level control is recommended. It can however take a max input of +22dBu, so the risk of over-driving the 40's input stage is minimal.
----------------------
"+4db Professional line level" (correct) 'nominally speaking'
"-10db Consumer line level" (correct)
"-20db Mic level" (incorrect). typically -50 or 60dB

Rick,

Thanks for the correction on mic level. I don't know how I got -20 stuck in my head. As soon as I saw your correct numbers I realized my error because I did know it to be -40 to -60.

I try hard not to be a hack and put bad info on here. If I am talking numbers I often confirm them before posting. But, that -20 just came right out of me for some reason.

Steve

Steve, I think the 'powers that be'... will let you slide.. THIS time.. but don't let it happen again.
Cheers, your sarcastic friend, Rick

Hey Rick,

Two things:

One; when it comes to audio I would bow down to you every time. You are a voice of authority here, I don't think I would ever dispute you (but I may be secretly waiting for you to slip someday, just so I could say ha ha). You are a true soundie, I am a video guy that has to deal with audio. I hack away and try to learn from guys like you. Your in the big leagues and I never even made it to the draft.

Two; "Sarcastic friend", I have you beat big time on the sarcasm meter! You have not been slapped on the keyboard by Obstreperous Rex nearly enough to be in my league. I won't go as far as to say the NSA is monitoring my posts here, but it is quite possible Chris might be. You continue to spew intelligent information day in and day out. Not me, I fake it. I am still trying to figure out what is the male end and the female end of a cable. And what baffles me further is why we are still able to refer to cables that way. I am waiting for the day when the PC police come in and tell us all cables are transgender because they are both male and female, so therefore we will have to refer to all cables as transitional devices so that we don't offend the cables. There I go again, see I am clearly incapable of communicating with audio engineers on their dry level. So I might jump in the water once in awhile and try to help someone hook up to a board. But, in a thread near this one Richard, Paul, and Greg are discussing world wide power distribution. And it has nothing to do with politics or money. I just don't get it ;-) ;-) :-)

Steve