Can you guys recommend a set of small studio monitor speakers that perform well in small places? I was looking at Genelec 8020c but they are a bit out of my budget. I would prefer to spend around $500 for two and the Genelec ones are over $500 for both. Is there anything out there that's within my budget?

Well...for what it is worth...I've just bought Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 Pro Active speakers...

Well...for what it is worth...I've just bought Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 Pro Active speakers...
I see that they are discontinued, where did you get them? How much are they?

On the recommendation of several people in some of the other forums I frequent, I bought a pair of JBL LSR305 speakers and I am very pleased with them. There is also an 8-inch version, LSR308 which probably sound even more amazing if I had the space for them. Google shows the street price for the LSR308 is currently US$ 220 each.

If you are in NYC, you can probably go down to B&H and hear all the candidates for yourself, which is a tremendous advantage. I rather took a risk buying the 305s unheard, but I have always liked JBL speakers, and I could have returned them. But there is nothing like actually being there in the same room with several pair of speakers to compare them in person.

I'll second Richard's recommendation of the JBL speakers. I have the LSR308s he mentioned. I also have a pair of Yamaha HS50M 5" speakers that I like. Those have been replaced by the HS5 model I believe. They are part of Yamaha's long line of speakers designed to be very "real world" in that they don't sound great by themselves, but if you can make a mix sound good on them, then it should translate well to many other environments that it might get played in. I also agree with Richard that it's best if you can audition them personally. There are several pretty good options out there in the $300 - 400/pair range, including the JBL LSR305, the Yamaha HS5, the Mackie MR5 and others.

Have fun!

I bought the LSR305s and really like them. They're nicely sized for desktop use and very well behaved.

I also have some 15" speakers based on JBL's large studio monitors from the '80s. The LSR305s don't go nearly as deep, but they are less colored in the mid-range and the dispersion pattern is excellent. If you want more bass, save up for the matching subwoofer, which you could add later. I can switch between my big mains and the small speakers with the press of a button, and I often choose to use the smaller 305s without the sub. (Mainly, I choose the 305s when sitting close and when deep bass isn't a prime focus. If I'm further away or listening to Dark Side of the Moon, I prefer the big boys.)

The thing is, I don't listen to the smaller speakers constantly thinking that the bass is missing. The truth is that sometimes I forget which system is active and have to check the switch. So the bass isn't deep, but it's not missing, empty or over-hyped at 100 Hz either.

If the 305s were my only pair, I'd eventually add the sub, but it wouldn't be a desperate need.

On the other hand, if you have space on the desk, adequate budget, and want more bass on day one, I'd get the 308s. In my case, I wanted the smaller size.

Thanks everyone. I forgot to mention that the space is an issue for me. The JBLs are too big that's why I was looking at Genelecs. Does anyone have any experience with the Senals? I'm looking at Senal ASM-3.

Thanks

An online composer friend of mine raved about his Blue Sky monitors a few years ago. (I haven't heard them in person.) These look to be very small and not far from your budget.

Blue Sky » Blog Archive » eXo2 Stereo System (http://abluesky.com/products/exo2-2/)

Even though desk space may be limited, hopefully, you have floor space or room under the desk for the small sub.

I see that they are discontinued, where did you get them? How much are they?
I'm in NZ...from a music shop in Auckland - online...$NZ400 for a pair - delivered...

Wasn't aware they have been discontinued...apparently they've been making them for about 10 years...

There are isolating desktop speaker stands that cost about $80 a pair that have a smaller footprint than the LSR305's. It would still be in your budget though versus the Genelecs.

I made a pair of short stands myself for larger monitors when I had limited work surface. I'm still using them many years later.

They not only make more room on the desktop, but get the speakers up closer to ear level when seated and reduce reflections from all the stuff on your working area.

Jay gets the thinking-out-of-the-box (or should that be "under-the-boxes") award. Stands are a nice suggestion for putting large(ish) monitors on a small footprint.

Speaking of ear-level, the other guideline is to make an equilateral triangle between the monitors and the listener. Turn the speakers slightly inward, though not necessarily all the way toward you. Hopefully, that helps in designing the workspace.

OK but I can't have stands. I need to make the best out of what I have. I decided to try the Senals. They should be coming on Thursday.
I forgot to mention that I am not mastering music. Mostly vocals in short documentaries.

Let us know what you think of them after listening to some material that you're used to hearing and thinking that it has always sounded "right" to you.

With 3 choices each for adjustment in High, Medium and Low frequency bands, it may take some experimentation to get them set for their particular response in your particular space and exact placement.

Also, how do you plan to interface to the monitors from your computer?

Also, how do you plan to interface to the monitors from your computer?
I was going to use 3.5mm RCA connection. Is this not the way to do it?

This is very interesting to me as well. Would the 1/8" line out from a mac pro to the balanced 1/4" in on the speakers be best?

Maybe I need to start a new thread.

J

Going from the stereo 3.5mm out of the computer to the unbalanced RCA connectors of the Senal ASM-3 monitors would be the simplest method. And the specs say the pair comes with a cable to do this included.

As has been discussed here lately in the forum, the built-in audio outputs of most computers often have a lot of noise.

I didn't know if you had a USB audio interface or other equipment like a mixer planned for use between the computer, the monitors and any other audio sources you might be using.

Going from the stereo 3.5mm out of the computer to the unbalanced RCA connectors of the Senal ASM-3 monitors would be the simplest method. And the specs say the pair comes with a cable to do this included.

As has been discussed here lately in the forum, the built-in audio outputs of most computers often have a lot of noise.

I didn't know if you had a USB audio interface or other equipment like a mixer planned for use between the computer, the monitors and any other audio sources you might be using.
I don't have anything else planned to use. No mixer or anything like that. So can I plug in the speakers directly to my computer?

Yes, you should be able to connect these powered speakers directly into the audio out of your computer using a standard 3.5mm stereo to 2x RCA cable.

The specs don't say how long the included cable is, but you can easily find a longer or shorter one if needed.

What kind of computer are you using?

Yes, you should be able to connect these powered speakers directly into the audio out of your computer using a standard 3.5mm stereo to 2x RCA cable.

The specs don't say how long the included cable is, but you can easily find a longer or shorter one if needed.

What kind of computer are you using?

But if I connect them directly to the computer will I have issues with noise? I thought you suggested using an external interface.
I'm using Mac Pro.

Please note that virtually all sound interfaces INSIDE computers (no matter what brand or model) are noisy. Some much worse than others, but many are usable depending on your tolerance of low-level "digital hash" The standard method of getting around this endemic problem is to use an external (USB) sound interface. Even something as cheap and simple as a Behringer UCA-222 can be a vast improvement over this noise problem in many computers.

Please note that you should actually TRY the speakers with the sound output of your computer FIRST before you can know if your particular combination will be a problem or not.

It 's nice to a one of your monitor sets w/ a sub for checking infrasonic content that normal speakers won't reproduce, like LF rumble, plosives, ect.. Like microphones, one (set) of speakers is rarely adequate for broadcast work.. I mix with four sets; large, small nearfields and reference cubes, and a (in my case Auratones) and 'typical' home stereo speakers. Compromises are often necessary to sound good on all.

I too would recommend going to B&H to audition monitors. Monitors are like headphones, everyone's got their favorites. A subjective cthoice at best.

FWIW, I have a set of Equator D5's that sound good (IMO). Good deal as well, around $300 for two. They are sold directly to the buyer, so there's no added distributor/dealer costs). Designed by Ted Keffalo. Prior to Equator, Ted co-founded Event..

I agree with the "Try It and Listen" advice. You have nothing to lose.

If you need to do anything else beyond the simplest monitoring, or if you do have noise problems, then I do recommend an external interface.

It's an inexpensive way to gain a lot of flexibility in connecting to and from your computer, as well as getting lower noise and more durable connectors than 3.5mm stereo mini.

Thank you. The speakers are coming tomorrow. I will report back after I listen how they sound.

Great info.

If the line out or internal audio out is kind of crappy, would this work?

I have an M-Audio Fastrack Pro USB audio interface that I was using to record guitar stuff. I believe that I can choose the M-Audio as an output source from all of my audio in the preferences on the Mac. The M-Audio has 4 RCA outputs on the back, as well as two TRS 1/4" outputs.

Would one of these be a better option? I'm guessing that one of the TRS would go into the left speaker and the other to the right, although they are not labeled on the outputs left and right.

Jonathan

That is correct Johnathan. That Fast Track Pro is exactly the kind of USB interface device they have been talking about here. It will not only allow you to feed your speakers USB instead of 1/8 mini it will also work as an analog input device.

You are Mac so you should be OK. My Fast Track worked fine on XP but it is buggy on Windows 7. But that should be a new thread.

On near field monitors here is my 2 cents. I have nine speakers hooked up to my editing rig so I can tast my mix several ways. Recently I wanted a new pair of small light monitors I could hook up to an editing lap top I use on sets for client review. It is bad form to hand a client sweaty cans ;-)

For $200.00 I found these and was pleasantly surprised by how good they sound for such a low price:

PreSonus Eris E4.5 Hi-Definition 2-Way 4.5" ERIS E4.5 B&H

While I was researching in that range I found a lot of bad reviews about the M-Audio near fields. Apparently they put out one or two models that had power amps failing regularly right after warranty expiration...ouch.

Steve

Hi Steve.

I've always had issues with the M Audio, mostly with input levels. I'm also pretty sure Avid took over the brand. Finding the latest drivers for it is always a challenge and I have pretty much resigned myself that it won't work ever again with some not to distant OS update.

I am quite excited and wiggley at Richards review of the JBLs, and for once aomething thats only a few hundred dollars instead of thousands which I thought you had to spend for decent monitors!

And yes, my Sony 7506 headphones is what I now use for audio grading.

Currently, my "monitor" are Logitech something or other that consist of a sub, and 5 little desktop speakers.

Cheers.

Jonathan

I got my Senal speakers and they sound great! I'm really happy with them. I do not have any problem with noise plugging them in directly to my computer. So I think I'm good!

Can you guys recommend a set of small studio monitor speakers that perform well in small places? I was looking at Genelec 8020c but they are a bit out of my budget. I would prefer to spend around $500 for two and the Genelec ones are over $500 for both. Is there anything out there that's within my budget?

On that budget I would go for the Equator D5 ( http://www.equatoraudio.com/D5-Studio-Monitors-with-DSP-Pair-p/d5.htm ) - only $399.99 in the USA - excellent quality for the price and better than many more expensive models.

Also - they are co-axial monitors which have an excellent stereo image with depth.

FWIW, I have a set of Equator D5's that sound good (IMO). Good deal as well, around $300 for two. They are sold directly to the buyer, so there's no added distributor/dealer costs). Designed by Ted Keffalo. Prior to Equator, Ted co-founded Event..

Yes - I posted before I read this.

The D5 is the only sub-$1,000 monitor worth getting, IMHO, other than the more expensive D8 (which is also under $1k).

This is very interesting to me as well. Would the 1/8" line out from a mac pro to the balanced 1/4" in on the speakers be best?

Maybe I need to start a new thread.

J Likely to be a level mismatch there. Computer 1/8 line outs are -10dBv consumer line while I would expect a balanced 1/4 TRS to be +4dBu studio line level.

I have connected many different brands/models of self-powered speakers to computer 3.5mm (line/headphone/speaker) outputs and can't remember ever encountering a significant level mismatch. Furthermore the JBL LSR305 has a -10/+4 dB sensitivity switch if it concerns you.

For low near close field monitors I agree that the JBL's (either 305 or 308) are one of the best choices. I've been using a pair of JBL's for years to mix documentary, live performance video, and narrative videos as well as mixing music. I would recommend getting a USB audio interface at the least. Plugging a decent set of monitors into your computer's internal sound card is like taking a 4K television and watching VHS tapes with it. Their are some very good USB interfaces for around $150 such as the Steinberg UR22, Focusrite 2i2, and some others. This will give you the added bonus of having some good (not great) mic pre's if you ever need it to record some ADR or VO's.


Some additional things to consider. With the smaller monitors it will take a little time to get your mixes right. All of them will tend to be a little light on the bass so your first tendency will be to bump the low end a little but when played back on most peoples home entertainment systems, which tend to be set up to emphasize the highs and lows, it turns out to be very boomy. You should also use a loudness meter or calibrate your monitor levels so that you don't end up with a mix that is too loud or to soft. ATSC A85 specifies -24 LUFS for broadcast which is a good target for material intending to be watched on TV's. Content intended for viewing/listening on computers or personal equipment is usually up around -16 LUFS.

For low near close field monitors I agree that the JBL's (either 305 or 308) are one of the best choices. I've been using a pair of JBL's for years to mix documentary, live performance video, and narrative videos as well as mixing music. I would recommend getting a USB audio interface at the least. Plugging a decent set of monitors into your computer's internal sound card is like taking a 4K television and watching VHS tapes with it. Their are some very good USB interfaces for around $150 such as the Steinberg UR22, Focusrite 2i2, and some others. This will give you the added bonus of having some good (not great) mic pre's if you ever need it to record some ADR or VO's.


Some additional things to consider. With the smaller monitors it will take a little time to get your mixes right. All of them will tend to be a little light on the bass so your first tendency will be to bump the low end a little but when played back on most peoples home entertainment systems, which tend to be set up to emphasize the highs and lows, it turns out to be very boomy. You should also use a loudness meter or calibrate your monitor levels so that you don't end up with a mix that is too loud or to soft. ATSC A85 specifies -24 LUFS for broadcast which is a good target for material intending to be watched on TV's. Content intended for viewing/listening on computers or personal equipment is usually up around -16 LUFS.
OK but what do I gain if I don't hear any noise coming from my speakers plugged in directly to my computer? What benefit the Steinberg UR22 would give me?

I have Senal asm-3, small speakers and in comparison to larger monitors they sound alike so again what would I gain? All I'm mixing is narratives, no music. The Senals have an adjustable low, mids and highs so I can tweak them to my liking.
http://www.senalsound.com/?home

The Senals have an adjustable low, mids and highs so I can tweak them to my liking.

When doing production mixing, you don't really want your reference monitor speakers "tweaked to your liking". That is rather like saying that my yard-stick (or meter-stick) is inconveniently long, so I will cut the length down to be easier to handle.

Reference monitor speakers should be as "flat" (accurate) as you can make them so that you have a reliable point of reference on which to make qualitative and quantitative evaluation of the sound mix.

Kathy,

If it works don't fix it. If it sounds good and there is no unwanted noise you will not gain hardly anything by adding another unneeded device. There are about three treads going right now discussing this same thing.

I understand why Garrett says hooking it up to your computes sound card is like watching VHS on a 4K monitor but I disagree. On board sound cards are notoriously weak. But if it works for your system go for it.

Steve

I do agree that if you are satisfied with your results then there isn't a need to do more. However, I do hear a very large difference between even what I used to use, which was the audio output from a Black Magic Decklink Extreme and my USB interface. As Mr. Crowley said, when you mix, you want your audio signal to be as flat as possible and also as "uncolored" as possible. It is the same reason we color grade on production monitors which have a much flatter response than TV's. Noise is actually one of the concerns for post audio that is lower on the list. On the acquisition side it is a lot bigger issue.

As for the material that you are mixing, I would say that the audio for narratives is of great importance. It is more than 50% of your audience's experience. My post audio work generally is viewed by one of two viewers, either on their home entertainment system, or in a theater. I don't do much that is destine for the internet so my mixes and levels are done with those systems in mind.

Kathy, again, if you are happy with your set up then don't change it. However, if you notice that your mixes are sounding off on various playback systems you might consider changing something in your editing system. That's just my 2 pennies. YMMV.