disregard, apologies

I have a stupid question here.

Assume somebody is mainly interested in acquiring some equipment around the $ 3000 price point for video only.

Why spend 3000 bucks on this Sony A7r 2 when for the same price you can have a ursa mini shooting ProRez 444? I still believe that the 4K sensor camera, because it comes with free Resolve and the amazing color grading capability of ProRes is better than the Sony. I understand somebody taking the sony over the Ursa Mini 4.6K, which I think is probably over kill for most people, but why pick it up over the 4K, considering the incredible advantage of a color space offering 444?
Am I missing something here?

For me its about the full frame sensor and the look that that gives me with my full frame lenses.
At the moment I have a 5d3 and Im considering the new sony. I wouldnt jump ship for a crop sensor. I dont do much grading (dont have time) so really its what can be produced in the camera itself that applies to myself. Im not even iterestedn in Slog2. Too time consuming for my work to be messing with it.
So color space is all great but for me I need a light small good in low light full frame camera that shoots 4k internally and looks like a photography camera. Too much to ask? Apparently not. :)

I have a stupid question here.

Assume somebody is mainly interested in acquiring some equipment around the $ 3000 price point for video only.

Why spend 3000 bucks on this Sony A7r 2 when for the same price you can have a ursa mini shooting ProRez 444? I still believe that the 4K sensor camera, because it comes with free Resolve and the amazing color grading capability of ProRes is better than the Sony. I understand somebody taking the sony over the Ursa Mini 4.6K, which I think is probably over kill for most people, but why pick it up over the 4K, considering the incredible advantage of a color space offering 444?
Am I missing something here?

I'm pretty sure the URSA mini is a repackaged Black Magic Production Camera. It's not going to be great in low light and the dynamic range is good, but not anything special. For wedding filmmakers such as myself 4k at ProRes 444 isn't practical. I need an efficiently compressed codec. The Sony will also make a great stills cam for those of us who do both. Also if we need a more robust codec for a specific shoot we can always rent or buy a shogun. There's also the in camera stabilization which is very attractive for handheld work and the short flange distance that lets you adapt pretty much any legacy lens ever to it. There's a lot of win in the A7R II.

OK,
your answers make sense, both of you. In both cases we are dealing with people not interested in narrative but who are working at filming weddings. Sure I understand.
The fact that the Ursa Mini 4K is a repackage BMPC is not a bad thing.
I guess if you don't do fiction why bother to color grade and why bother with any codec in 444

Also from my past experience with the Blackmagic 2.5K and pocket cameras, just setting up the cameras and all that necessary rigging for a shoot was a work in itself. Not to mention a number of firmware glitches and design quirks that often held back the shoots. Assuming you can and have the time to get everything right I believe the newer 4K capable models will give you a nice image with a distinctive look in a way the Sony A7R II probably can't. But IMHO the $3,000 for the Sony also buys a peace of mind for a lot of people aside from a camera that shoots 4K.

I guess if you don't do fiction why bother to color grade and why bother with any codec in 444

And why bother with shooting in 444 with a sensor that doesn't actually give you that?

Has anyone here gotten to play with an A7RII yet? I have mine ordered but who the heck knows when they'll ship...

I was interested in the A7R mkII until I saw various reports of it overheating and shutting down after a short time when recording 4K. Maybe this is something Sony can hopefully fix?

New Shooter article mentioning overheating:
News Shooter | Sony a7R II part III: 5-axis stabilisation and heat issues – going handheld to tell the story of a London busker (http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/02/sony-a7r-ii-part-iii-5-axis-stabilisation-and-heat-issues-going-handheld-to-tell-the-story-of-a-london-busker/)

B&H review mentioning overheating:
Sony a7R II Alpha Mirrorless Digital Camera (a7RII Camera Body) B&H

Has anyone here gotten to play with an A7RII yet? I have mine ordered but who the heck knows when they'll ship...

I've had a A7RII for a few days. The 4K video quality for both full frame and S35 is very good. S35 performs really well in low light (it's not an A7S, but it is better than anything I've ever had). I've played quite a bit with Slog2; this has exceptional dynamic range. But EOSHD has published a flat profile for the A7RII they call CINEFLAT that is more like a Canon LOG style, and it seems to give better color and better control of color in post. I've tried this and am switching to it - I expect this profile will be a winner for serious video.

Rolling shutter is high, so you won't be doing fast pans - as we're all used to with CMOS sensors. There have been reports of shut down with over heating with the S35 mode before the 29 minute limit. I have not had this problem, and many users report trying to make it fail and they can't, but it is something to be concerned about.

Of course it is an amazing stills camera.

Is the 29 min. limit a pause and rest the camera for a few minutes or an arbitrary limit that you can re-start right away. Thinking of using the RX10 Mk11 for low-budget theater shoots that can last 2 hours, shooting in 4K. Thoughts?

It's an arbitary limit and you can re-start right away. But that fraction of a second before you start recording again might be where you miss an important part of the performance. It wouldn't be that much of a problem if you're shooting a person speaking at an event, for example, but theater might be a problem. The other problem is that you intend to shoot in 4K and not HD. As it is now when shooting in 4K with the A7R mkII, it will likely overheat during use, and you'll have to wait until it cools down to use it again.

Thanks for the info Ed. Sorry for the late reply, irregular schedule and all that. So overheating is an issue for longer shots, damn. Guess I'll wait for the next models. For this particular client, even an FDR-AX100 is pushing the budget, And the HFS feature is awfully sexy.

Also Sony, keep coming with those video friendly lenses. Ah, for a constant arpeture, parfocal zoom lens that is light and costs less than a car that works with larger imagers. Blackmagic might actually sell their studio cameras if they could find a MFT version. Oh, well... And thanks again Ed.

Reports of heat issues seem to be coming in on the A7rMk2, and the RX100M4 of course has a very short clip duration of 5 minutes for 4K, but so far at least the RX10M2 hasn't been reported to have heat problems (yet?).

The RX10 update may be the "magic" combo of size and engineering to be able to dissipate heat well enough for the sensor size and processing horsepower... I'm watching for reports of overheating carefully, as I had some early "small body" Alpha SLT's that definitely were quick to overheat! Seems to be an ongoing engineering challenge!

There are a lot of reports that having the LCD flipped out from the body delays or even eliminates overheating depending on ambient conditions. At least the trend line is in the right direction.

I just "heat stress tested" my RX10M2, no overheat problems in low-mid 70's ambient temps, about an hour and 20 minutes of continuous running (hit the record as soon as it turned off at 29:50) before the battery expended and cam shut down, continued for another hour or so after putting in a new battery - looks good enough, though that's no guarantee in hotter conditions I'd suppose!

I believe that the LCD being folded out provides better overall airflow and cooling to the actual body of the camera - I started with the LCD "in" and then flipped it out after the first 29:50 clip... camera body definitely gets warm, but never saw any heat warning from the camera!

I had an older A55 that could just barely make 15 minutes before overheating... quite pleased to see the RX10M2 be as reliable as the old RX10!


SO, for Eric, you'd probably be just fine with the RX10M2 for your purposes, as long as the theatre isn't an old hotbox with no A/C <wink>. Presuming there's an intermission for a battery swap, and you can find a "pause" or two in the action to "double tap" record before the 29:50 limit, the camera should serve the purposes well enough!

You might even consider picking up a RX10M1 (they are ridiculously cheap used on ebay right now...) for a second camera - zooms and close ups to intermix/cut with the M2's 4K? You'd get some very nice 1080/HD results! In fact, if budget is a big issue, the HD from the Mk1 looks pretty darned good next to the 4K for most intents and purposes... I can see the difference on a 4K monitor, but it's not THAT huge - the advantages of pan/crop in post of course come with shooting 4K, but 1080/60p looks mighty nice! If your cams are manned, you could practically pick up TWO Mk1's for the going price of a Mk2...

With regard to heat measurements, Harbor Freight has a non-contact infrared thermometer on sale at $25.99 with their Super Coupon.
Non-Contact Infrared Thermometer With Laser Targeting (http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-infrared-thermometer-with-laser-targeting-60725.html)

This is a really handy little item to have around the house, car, or the boat. Or even the wife if she says "feel how cold my hand/ foot is." But you can use it on the cam, too. )Tell the wife you had to buy it for medical reasons.)