Here is a link to the new X70 firmware version 2.0:

https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-software-model-PXWX70.aspx

All you need to do now is pay for the 4k upgrade key to unlock the 60Mbp/s.

After doing so you will have a camcorder that has the LOWEST 4K bitrate in the entire camcorder industry. Yes,..far lower than ALL 4K Panasonic, Canon, JVC and any other Sony 4K cameras too!

Sony, please give this professional XDCAM camera the industry standard 100Mbp/s codec that ALL other cheap consumer 4k entry level cameras have.

btw,..the camera now rights XAVC-L files that have proper metadata that Sony Vegas can FINALLY read!

60Mbp/s ? Really - Hmmm

What are they charging for this?

The firmware is free. This gives you a number of new features like live IP streaming and FTP. (and some others)

You must have this firmware installed before you can buy the 4K upgrade. You can purchase the 4K upgrade for around $500 USD. However, it will give you only the rock bottom UHD bitrate of 60Mbp/s.

As you might know, no other 4K camcorder on the market today has a maximum bitrate that low. It's literally sits at the BOTTOM of the industry list. It's sub-par to even the cheapest entry level consumer 4K camera. (Panasonic, Canon JVC and Sony ALL use 100Mbp/s or higher) It's even lower than Sony's 4K ActionCam. (Sony's "GoPro")

Freaky decision huh? I'm still just shocked to Hell about it.

Don't forget to save your camera profile settings to SD card before updating as your camera will be completely reset to factory!

and just to stay on topic........
Damn you Sony for charging for a lowly 60mbps - Boo!

And it now goes straight into FCPX, no problem, but not into Premiere Pro CS6

Have any of the wacky color/highlight issues been fixed with this firmware update, i.e. yellow faces, harsh highlight clipping, cyan skies, inability to get fully accurate colors on the scope, etc.?

Sorry Tom, don't recognise what you are referring to. Have you upgraded and tried it?

And it now goes straight into FCPX, no problem, but not into Premiere Pro CS6

I would not expect for it to ever work in CS6 natively. Transcode could work, but if there is time to transcode then perhaps there is money to go up to CC?

And it now goes straight into FCPX, no problem, but not into Premiere Pro CS6

At least for me, only the first recorded clip comes in to FCP X. Remaining clips will only come in with their audio. You can see my recent posts starting on page 7 of the thread entitled 'Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?'

I hope they fixed so you can have time-date-stamp in progressive mode, not just interlace and also not lose the histogram when its on.

Color accuracy and highlight handling improvements would be nice but somehow I doubt that's going to have changed.

Is there an English version of change log, the link seems to be in Japanese only?

As for low bit rate 4K, I'm trying to keep an open mind, bit rate is not always everything. People seemed to like the sample provided. I guess if you really push in post then its not the best, but I wouldn't use this cam with that kind of project in mind. Can it output anything higher into an external recorder?

Is there an English version of change log, the link seems to be in Japanese only?

As for low bit rate 4K, I'm trying to keep an open mind, bit rate is not always everything. People seemed to like the sample provided. I guess if you really push in post then its not the best, but I wouldn't use this cam with that kind of project in mind. Can it output anything higher into an external recorder?

If you're speaking of the file 'PXWX70V200_manual.pdf' that comes with the firmware update, it's a multi-language file. The English section starts on physical page 24.

The SDI being only 3G will max out at 1080p. So one would need to use the HDMI out for 2160p. Sadly, I don't see any details on chroma subsampling for 2160p HMDI output. For internal recording, the PDF mentions 4:2:0. I'm going to assume that is 8-bit. *sigh* when will camera manufacturers just provide all the specs? Each cam should always mention bit-depth, chroma subsampling, codec, bit-rate, etc. for both internal and external recording.

Rant asside, the HDMI output should at least be 8-bit 4:2:0. But I think it would be very helpful to folks should that actually be 4:2:2


Side note: There are other limitations if wanting to use the X70 to capture 4K. For example, the PDF outlines these functions as being unavailable for 4K recording:

* Color Bar
* Date Rec
* D. Extender
* S&Q Motion
* Face Detection
* Intelligent Auto
* Scene Selection

Proxy Recording (which thankfully I don't need) also renders some of those functions unavailable as well:

* AVCHD recording
* DV Mode
* Color Bar
* Date Rec
* S&Q Motion
* Streaming

(from Page 26/GB4 of the new PDF):

• When you connect with an SDI cable, the output
of a 4K (QFHD) movie is converted to that of an
HD movie, even if the monitor/TV is compatible
with 4K.
• For more details on the setting of output
resolution when outputting movies in 4K
(QFHD), see “Output resolution in 4K (QFHD)”
on page 17.
• While recording a 4K (QFHD) movie, output to
HDMI/SDI/VIDEO OUT is not available.

and on Page 39/GB17:
Output resolution in 4K:
60i 2160p/1080p/480i SDI-1080p, HDMI-2160p, Video Out(composite)- 480i

So it's not clear to me if you can actually record at 2160p via HDMI to an external recorder while the camera is also recording.

It doesn't look like you can do any external recording or even monitoring while recording in QFHD mode,
(from Page 26 of the Updates PDF):

• When you connect with an SDI cable, the output
of a 4K (QFHD) movie is converted to that of an
HD movie, even if the monitor/TV is compatible
with 4K.
• For more details on the setting of output
resolution when outputting movies in 4K
(QFHD), see “Output resolution in 4K (QFHD)”
on page 17.
• While recording a 4K (QFHD) movie, output to
HDMI/SDI/VIDEO OUT is not available.

Although we might assume that you could still record via HDMI/SDI as long as the camera itself is not recording, but still only at 1920x1080.

The X70's SDI is only 3G, so it's limited to HD. That's outlined correctly in the addendum guide. One would need dual 3G SDIs or a single 6G SDI or better to output 4K over that.

Interesting that one cannot simultaneously record internally and send out a 4K signal over HDMI. I imagine then that the unit is being maxed out in terms of dealing with 4K. Just look at the features you lose.

All in all, still extremely happy with the X70. I'm only ever going to shoot HD on it and there it really shines. To include being able to record internally while outputing a signal over SDI or HDMI. That was critical for me since if I ever get an external recorder, they typically only have one media slot. I would want to do a simultaneous recording in that scenario.

If anybody's interested, Sony have posted the instructions on how to perform the 4K upgrade when it's available.

Brochures: CBKZ-X70FX Installation Guide : Brochures & Data Sheets : United Kingdom : Sony Professional (http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/support/brochures/CBKZ-X70FX-firmware-pdf)

I just edited my previous post after reading more about it- my last sentence may or may not be wrong anymore. I'm not sure.

Rant asside, the HDMI output should at least be 8-bit 4:2:0. But I think it would be very helpful to folks should that actually be 4:2:2

Since the sensor is 10-bit on the X70, I should hope that the HDMI output at 2160p would still be 10-bit, and that you could capture this with the Atomos Shogun. Possibly still 4:2:2 as well?

Am I missing something? I have a Sony a7s and record using the xavcs codec, import directly into adobe premier cs6 and it edits just fine!

The X70 codec in question is XAVC-L, not -S. Vegas, FCPX, etc. would not import the native files until now, although there is new evidence that it still may not fully work.

Oops sorry read that wrong. But I am still very confused as I have been using the xavcs files in cs6 using the dslr 1080p 25p preset and have no problems editing, so when people say it isn't supposed to work all over the internet It makes me think I've missed something.

Back to the subject though. I was waiting for the release of the 4k upgrade before I went ahead and bought the x70. Ha 60mbps....bad move Sony. I will look else where. Shame really as I liked the idea of the 1" sensor in a electronic zoom camera.

Oops sorry read that wrong. But I am still very confused as I have been using the xavcs files in cs6 using the dslr 1080p 25p preset and have no problems editing, so when people say it isn't supposed to work all over the internet It makes me think I've missed something.

XAVC has a few flavors. There is XAVC Intra and Long GOP. And now there's of course XAVC-S. Things get muddy when you end up reading about "XAVC" in the more generic sense. XAVC-L is really messed up. In Sony's higher-end units, XAVC-L seems to work great. Whereas with the X70, it's messed up with at least FCP X. And still messed up (at least for me) with the X70 version 2.0 firmware.

Back to the subject though. I was waiting for the release of the 4k upgrade before I went ahead and bought the x70. Ha 60mbps....bad move Sony. I will look else where. Shame really as I liked the idea of the 1" sensor in a electronic zoom camera.

The more I read about the 4K capabilities of the X70, the more I'm happier with remaining on HD. Along with the low bitrate, numerous features are disabled when recording in 4K (see my replies with them listed earlier in this thread, or check out the version 2.0 firmware update notes).

The direct streaming to IP might actually be interesting for me. However in the manual it says "... movie can be recorded while streaming..."
Then in the very next notes section it says "... streaming not available while relecording movies..."??
So which is it Sony, honestly, who writes these things.

I read that part too, and I think they mean that recording movies is possible while in Streaming MODE, but not while the camera is actually streaming. Nice, I guess, since you won't need to exit streaming mode in order to start a recording.

So like, I can be doing a live shot of a huge news story, but the only recordings possible would be on my stations end in 1Mbps partially freezing streaming codec? nice going Sony, you really outdid yourself.

I am done with the X70, think I will replace it with a WORKING JVC HM200 that can live stream while recording, has ingestable XAVC, and manual control rings and switches. :-|

Paul

It seems that Sony put a higher value on IP streaming than they did on working on it's 4K codec. You can add all the features in the world to a camera but if it's 4K codec is feeble,...what are you really left with in the end?

A camcorder with a few cute toys but has a WELL below entry-level consumer bit rate!

Sony, please dump the fluff and free up the processor overhead to make room for proper 100Mbp/s UHD.

By the way,...your JVC competitor camera has 150Mbp/s H.264...more than DOUBLE the bitrate of the XDCAM PXW-X70

I feel screwed by Sony and want a refund or credit.

The PXW-X70 2.0 makes the AX100 look ironically like an FS700 in comparison.

I am on disability income and paid $2,300 for what should have been a decent pro camcorder to do video journalism and documentary (and hopefully short films for fun, too) with portability, decent pro audio and ability to do green screen (10-bit 4:2:2).

• Sony dropped the price $300. With no "credit" for 4K upgrade to those who paid the full $2,300. Meaning: the camera was NEVER worth $2,300. I got ripped off, and I can not afford to be ripped off.
• Highlight handling sucks. Firmware 2.0 didn't fix.
• Date/time stamp only available on interlaced. WTF??? Not an issue for me, but is for others. Firmware 2.0 didn't fix.
• Sony's "inventive" color management -- inability to align colors properly (see Paul Andregg's extensive testing) -- is a bug and unacceptable. Firmware 2.0 didn't fix.
• Slow lens cancels out (more than I expected) benefits of large sensor re: DOF and low light capability. Sony could have installed an f/2.0–2.8 lens, especially on this "pro" version. Instead, it's no different than the AX100 or CX900.
• XAVC-L performance sucks ... especially after Firmware 2.0 update. Can no longer preview footage in VLC ... it freezes up. Firmware 2.0 made it worse, not better.
• White balance takes, like, three freaking menus to do what should be able to be done with ONE button and turning ONE dial. Firmware 2.0 didn't fix.
• Streaming was promised. Firmware 2.0 enabled streaming that DOES NOT ALLOW RECORDING? No technical excuse for this. Sony's "good" programmers are working on more lucrative projects, I guess. Why this cam? Buy a consumer cam at half the price to stream. Heck, a cell phone can record while streaming, can't it?
• $500 for a 4K update that is half the bit rate of the AX100, which cost $0 for 4K 100mbps upgrade? Seriously??? Is this a joke? The joke, friends, is on us pros and semi-pros. I guess Sony just doesn't take kindly to the likes of our market.

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, the consumer-ish pop-out power functions of the viewfinder and screen. Cute for awhile, then just annoying.

Does Sony hate the little guy this much to pull such a prank on us aspiring pros and "small fry" production houses?

A friend of mine (also legally blind), like me, is starting a video business. I recommended the X70 to her. I shall now "un-recommend" it. #1 reason? Sony's cavalier attitude towards owners of this camera as demonstrated in its over-delayed (since March) but under-delivering firmware update, and charging an extra $500 for half of what it is giving "consumers" for free.

I don't see Sony addressing any of the aforementioned issues in the future. I intend to write Sony a demand letter for either a $300 rebate check or a trade-in credit of $2,299 towards a different Sony product.

Does anyone think this is reasonable/unreasonable given these issues?

The HM200 is selling for like $2700.....so by Sony dropping the base price of the X70 to $2000, with 4K upgrade, it comes in $200 LESS than the JVC, to sell new X70's. If they didn't DEVALUE your and my already purchased cameras, their 60Mbps 4K camera would cost $100 MORE than the competition.

Remember when Sony meant one piece FIT Betacam SP, and JVC meant S-VHS in a white box docklable package?

Paul

I can see where folks have legitimate issues with the X70's 4K. But curious if there are others that are sticking with HD as I am. There, I'm finding the feature set for the price point to be very impressive.

From my end of things, the X70 is my first pro-level cam. So across the board, it is so much better than the consumer cams I've had in the past.

If money were no object, I'd love to have interchangeable lenses, global shutter, recording directly to ProRes or RAW, etc. But for my budget, the X70 fit perfectly. And most importantly, I am very happy with the footage.

For 1080/720 HD, and if you stick with optical zoom and have a few extra seconds to setup each shot (damn buttons), the X70 is an amazing camera for $2000 new, especially now that the XAVC-L thing has gotten better!

I am currently trying to figure out how the WiFi works. I have my stations Teradek receiver settings in it, and I am logged into my WiFi router in the menu, but I am not getting any execute option or WiFi icons......back to the manual! I am probably the only X70 user who can/will be doing live talking reports on air with one of these little guys built in streaming function...heh.

Paul

I recognize everyone's different needs for a camera, and their right to a personal opinion. However, count me in the camp that is actually pleased with the combination of quality and price that the X70 offers. I have experience dating back 10 years with the Panasonic DVC30 and HMC40, and the Canon XF100.

I bought my X70 Dec.1 but am not offended by the subsequent price drop. I felt it was worth $2300 at the time, and was only mildly surprised that a price drop came as quickly as it did. I just assumed it was to keep sales going given that the 4K update was taking far longer than first promised.

I do agree that highlight handling is not great. I was hoping to achieve a log-like flat setting. That is possible to some degree with shadow controls, but the Knee reduction settings must be used quite sparingly. The only real problems I have had were before I learned to not lower Point and Slope too much.

I have no need for time/date stamping, wifi, or streaming, so these, while important to some, are irrelevant for me.

Using Paul Anderegg's excellent test postings here, I'm extremely pleased with the color. It may have flaws, but I do not see them.

I've done testing between my Canon XF100 (1/3" sensor) and the X70. The Canon's lens is 1.8-2.8. Despite the slower lens, the X70 does have shallower depth of field. It's not a HUGE difference, but a definitely noticeable one - so much so that I'm having to be more careful with focusing if I have the X70 wide open. I find the two cameras about equal in low light - except that the X70 gain is MUCH cleaner, allowing me a realistic 2-3 stop advantage.

I always shoot XAVC-L. The firmware update making it natively compatible with FCPX has removed my final quibble with it. I now do my previewing in the import window of FCPX.

White balance - I hit the WB button, make sure the adjustment wheel is set to A or B, and I've mapped the WB set to button 5 with my right hand little finger. No menus.

I never expected the 4K to be 10 bit 422, but given the low specs I may not ever do the upgrade. I'll wait to see how it looks. The one sample I've seen looks great but has very little subject or camera movement, thus masking the limits of the low bit rate. Unless all you do is interviews or such static content, the $500 might be better spent toward a future camera or an external HD recorder, especially if your delivery (like mine) is all Vimeo and DVD.

One other weakness not mentioned recently is the Image Stabilization - it's merely OK, not great.

At the end of the day, I prefer a regular videocamera with XLRs, etc. and picture controls so I can shoot semi-flat and "grade" in post. Even six months after buying my X70, is there another camera that for $2K can match it? I really don't know of one.

I can only use Active IS because basic IS just doesn't seem to do anything. Active does cut the wide end, and causes some image quality loss though. On my X180, it's backwards. I cannot use Active because it wants to jiggle and swim all over the place.

Glad you like my settings David! If you copy and paste your PP i to the one above or below it, and on that new one just turn off the corrections, then toggle between the two, it's easier to tell what's getting changed/fixed.

For those wondering why get a 4K X70 over a cheaper AX100? Anyone with some good PP settings that toggles up to PP/off can tell you!

Paul

The HM200 is selling for like $2700.....so by Sony dropping the base price of the X70 to $2000, with 4K upgrade, it comes in $200 LESS than the JVC, to sell new X70's.
Paul


The JVC HM200 is now $2495, making it $4 cheaper than the Sony x70 with paid firmware upgrade (assuming it's $500).

JVC GY-HM200 4KCAM Compact Handheld Camcorder GY-HM200 B&H Photo

The JVC HM200 is now $2495, making it $4 cheaper than the Sony x70 with paid firmware upgrade (assuming it's $500).

JVC GY-HM200 4KCAM Compact Handheld Camcorder GY-HM200 B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1096582-REG/jvc_gy_hm200_gy_hm220_4kcam_streaming_camcorder.html)

yes but that's another handycam. the galaxy cell phone shoots great 4K and it's WAY easier to handle. So as another handycam makes more sense than both the hm200 and x70. For a real video camera work then there are the shoulder mount ones (as it should be)

In the end it will be a real shoulder , a cell phone for fun and handy things and a gh4 or red/arri for movies (with a script, actors, a crew, a director). those handy-gadgets and all the frankenrigs will soon be a thing of the (absurd) past.

Is anyone having this problem? If I record both AVCHD and XAVC onto the same card, FCPX v10.2.0 can only see the AVCHD footage. So if this really is happening, don't record mixed codecs on the same unformatted card!

I just shot one 720 XAVC story, ingested, fed it in to my station, then popped the card out, back into the camera, shot another 720 XAVC story, but when I popped the card back into the Mac, FCP X would only load the PREVIOUS story clips. I ejected the card and reinserted it several times, but could not get the new files to show. Had to shut down FCP X and restart it, then they loaded. Very quirky.

Paul

I just noticed the header on this thread says Frimware.....hehe. :-)

Paul

I had real problems using FCPX 10.2.0 sometimes XAVC could be seen, sometimes not. upgraded to 10.2.1 and working fine. I tried mixed codecs on the same card- AVCHD and XAVC. FCPX 10.2.1 can only 'see' the AVCHD files, the XAVC files appear only as JPEGS and audio. So don't mix codecs , only one type per card.

Finally, with the new firmware and FCP X update, I can shoot the same XAVC-L codec on all my cameras.

XAVC looks SOOOOO much better than AVCHD. Colors pop, everything is crisper. All my footage gets exported out as HDV 720p60 18Mbps, and AVCHD just comes out the other end as mush, soft, fuzzy, colorless. Better quality in, better quality out.

Paul

Shot my first wedding with XAVC-L 50mbps at the weekend & used native FCPX ingest. I've not had such unreliable footage since FCP5 & HDV.

I will say though that the footage is gorgeous & you can notice the extra colour depth compared to AVCHD, however....

1) FCPX can only seem to cope with 2 multicam streams of XAVC-L on my iMac (3.4 i7, 24gb, GTX680MX), 3+ streams drops it down to 2-3 fps, so I'm having to use proxy files.

2) Getting occasional 'glitches' (Blocking) on some clips - it's not on the original file, but appears on particular clips at random points at random times in both the FCPX viewer AND THE EXPORTED FILE - I'll have to find a work around (hopefully transcoding to 'optimised' will sort it).
http://i60.tinypic.com/wl9hk4.jpg

3) Went to export a 'guest messages' extra scene & the video freeze frames both in the timeline & on the exported file - the audio still runs but the video freezes for the rest of that individual clip. tried using an 'transcode to optimised' Pro-Res transcode & the same thing happened. My work around was to export each individual clip as a basic h.264 file & re-import - annoying!


So for me, native XAVC-L in FCPX is not reliable enough & is more hassle than it's worth at the moment because if I need to transcode the footage to Pro-Res for it to work properly in FCPX, I may as well just use Edit-Ready anyway..... damn you Sony & Apple!

Tomorrow arrive to me 4K license, after activating (sony web process, I don't know if this be asap) in camera I can send some 4K footage from X70.

So like, I can be doing a live shot of a huge news story, but the only recordings possible would be on my stations end in 1Mbps partially freezing streaming codec? nice going Sony, you really outdid yourself.

I am done with the X70, think I will replace it with a WORKING JVC HM200 that can live stream while recording, has ingestable XAVC, and manual control rings and switches. :-|

Paul

Do you think recording to external recorder (no internal recording) while streaming is possible?

Paul,
What sort of drive are you working from for your editing? I'm just thinking that maybe that is a performance bottleneck and not necessarily the CPU, or the footage itself?

Paul,
What sort of drive are you working from for your editing? I'm just thinking that maybe that is a performance bottleneck and not necessarily the CPU, or the footage itself?

It's a G-Tech Raid Thunderbolt drive, Black Magic speed test has it at 115MB/s

The Multicam fps I can deal with by using Proxy - that's not a big deal & half to be expected, however I'm more worried by the glitches on export with native XAVC-L (fixed by transcoding to Pro-Res) & the clips 'freeze framing' - both of these are with a single stream of 50Mbps video, which IIRC is only 6MBps giving me 100+MBps headroom

WTH do I get this CBKZ-X70FX 4K option? It's like Sony doesn't want us to find it. A few posts up, someone else already ordered it.

I only want it because I can't have it. :(

Paul

The most disappointing thing for me is that Sony haven't fixed their wacky colours. Paul's excellent settings sort of patch over the problems but I have an RX10 and an FS700 that perform much better out of the box. Come on Sony - how could you get it so wrong? The lack of a log profile and charging a 25% premium for a 4k " key" seems ridiculous esp as they are still protecting their premium products by limiting the data rate to 60Mbs which is lower than than the new fdr-ax100 data ratemb

I must be blind. I located the USA 2.0 but where the heck is the purchase area for the 4K unlock code?

I download all my HD firmware from the Sony UK website......I never could find the US d/l one!

Paul

For some reason, the 4K upgrade is already for sale in some areas of Europe only.

Ok....I can use some help. I am pretty good with this stuff but for some reason the X70 is not being recognized by the firmware updated. It just rotates. I downloaded three times in case of corruption....used the USB that came with the camera... See the black USB connect screen. Three computers tried as well. Any advice please? Thanks.

Ok....I can use some help. I am pretty good with this stuff but for some reason the X70 is not being recognized by the firmware updated. It just rotates. I downloaded three times in case of corruption....used the USB that came with the camera... See the black USB connect screen. Three computers tried as well. Any advice please? Thanks.

Do you have the battery in the X70 as well as it being plugged into a wall outlet? Try removing the battery and just powering the camera via a wall outlet. Or, powering the camera just by the battery alone (update instructions should mention the minimum battery level required).

... for some reason the X70 is not being recognized by the firmware updated. It just rotates.

Hi Lou, sorry you're having such problems. Unfortunately, you've already tried the things I would... except maybe a different USB cable. They *can* be bad, and I just used a random phone cable, which worked for me.

I used a well-charged battery for power, no AC; though it shouldn't matter. The updater refused to operate with just 2 bars on the battery meter -- which is ridiculously over-conservative, the update didn't take long.

One thing I will say is -- follow the instructions **>>!! EXACTLY !!<<**. I'm a software engineer, and I work on products like this, and I know the kinds of people who write these updaters -- in fact they're a persistent problem. It shouldn't matter which order you do some things, but it will. So do EXACTLY what the instructions say, in terms of when to plug in the cable, when to turn the camera on, etc. Remove the memory cards from the camera, and run though every step exactly as written -- maybe print out the instructions, highlight EVERY step, and check them off as you do them. ("Close all running programs" is a piece of garbage, but then again it can't hurt.)

Don't forget to "Safely remove" the camera when they say, and leave the cable plugged when they say -- what's happening there is the USB connection is being put into a different mode, and their software is too dumb to handle it correctly. (E.g. Android does this all the time, and much more smoothly.)

As a last resort, "Try a different USB port" is well worth looking at -- I know you did already, but Windows is unbelievably screwed up on USB (if you're on Windows). Some ports will work for some things, some for others.

Hope this helps... and good luck.