I would like to purchase a set of lavalier transmitters/receivers. I've used the Sennheiser G3's before, and of course they work great. But I just can't drop that much money on lavs yet. The new Rode system looks nice, but it's not available yet and is untested. Can anyone recommend a reliable set that wouldn't cost $700? Is there anything reliable in the $300 range? I already have a Rode PinMic, so no lav needed.

Thanks.

$300 is rather below the "reliable" range.
Some people have luck with Azden, but most people swear at them.
But even Azden's halfway-decent line are more like $400

Several brands have released 2.4GHz digital wireless kits including Shure, Sennheiser and Audio-Technica and, as you say, Rode which is not quite available yet. But they are all in the $400~450 range.

Note that virtually all reputable wireless kits include a lav mic which is wired for it, so, alas, you probably can't expect any benefit there.

I strongly recommend spending more than $300 for your wireless system. You buy once and cry once. If you purchase a good one (and plan on being in business for a while), then your wireless will outlast your next 2 or 3 cameras. Maybe more. Audio is the weakness for most amateurs. A video with bad audio will not get watched, period.

That being said, look at the Sony UWP-D11, or the previous UWP-V6 series.They have outperformed my Sennheisers. If there is a local Professional Videographers Association, you might find people selling used gear there. Facebook has an active forum for Videographers Buy/Swap/Sell
https://www.facebook.com/groups/videographersphotographersbuyswapsell/

You might even find a bargain on Craigslist. But try before you buy. Test for range and audio quality.

I second the Sony UWP-D systems. I've had the D16 and D11 kits for a year now so I've used every possible combination of it and they work very well.

If you don't want to buy used then I suggest looking for returned/open box models at B&H, Adorama and Amazon (from amazon warehouse deals, not 3rd parties) to get a new kit for a significant discount. They pop up once in a while. I got my D11 kit from Amazon warehouse deals and the time meter on the transmitter said 32 minutes. Not bad for half price!

Has anyone heard any good things about the Audio-Technica System 10?

Also, what makes a wireless lav set unreliable? Is it interference?

Watch this video clip and listen to what the script is saying and do you trust this production to low cost radio mics and the problems that go with them?
Then ask are good quality radio mics a good investment?

Maxmotion | Is wedding videography a good investment? - Maxmotion (http://www.maxmotionvideo.com/wedding-videography-good-investment/)

I have two of the AudioTechnica System 10 kits. I haven't used them extensively, but from what I have seen so far they are at least as good as the venerable Sennheiser G3. I have been promising to make a review video, but not got around to it yet. Meanwhile, these seem useful...

https://youtu.be/tFWmMdH-AE0 by Ty Ford who participates in this (and several other) forums.
https://youtu.be/SnudYcodS0U By a pro sound guy and professor. With some very distant tests.
The "long hall" test and the "outdoor sidewalk" tests were good out to distances where you could hardly even see the guy wearing the mic. (>> 100 ft)

Alas, most of the other System-10 "reviews" on YouTube range between a useless waste of time and outrageous rubbish.

In the radio mic field, the old "you get what you pay for" makes so much sense. I'd venture that many people with good equipment they use to make money, didn't buy this gear when they first did the toe in the water - I know I didn't.

Radio is always a weak link, but a weak link that goes bad very quickly, and always at the worst time.

If there was a cheap system that was as good as the expensive ones, which are never reliable themselves, we'd all be using them.

I've been testing my new System 10 and quite like it. No problems so far and I've been getting good reception up to 100 feet through walls and doors. Proof of the pudding will come on 6/6 when I'm going to try to use it for real to send sync track to cameras in the balcony of a church.

I had Markertek make up a custom cable that should let me feed the tape output of my SD 702 to the System 10 transmitter. I'll get the cable this Friday and I'll report back on how it works - could be a brilliant success or a smashing failure or somewhere in between. John Erceg at Markertek connected with the AT folks and confirmed what connector they use and the System 10 specs identify the function of each pin so I think it's all do-able.

The #1 issue with wireless mics is what other signals are bouncing around the venue. In a relatively isolated environment at short distances most will work to give intelligible voice, even the $200 sets. However, in areas with congested airwaves, all bets are off. I recall doing a wedding reception in DC with a friend, the DJ was using a wireless system, and picking up passing police cars. We came to his rescue by loaning him our Samson system for the evening (and made a new friend in the process).

When you look at reviews, consider the environment where it is being demonstrated. (Any SUV can reach 60 mph on a straight downhill stretch, but pulling a bass boat and trailer up a 6% grade is another matter.)

I would say the ATW-1800 series, at about $550 is a good stating point, and is a traditional analog (FM) channel. It offers diversity receivers which may help at times. I currently use them with both body pack and plug on transmitters.

The AT system 10 at around $400 might give better sound thanks to digital transmission, but have shorter reliable range. The jury is still out on it.

The Sony UWP-D series starting at $600 is likely good as well. It appears to be a mix analog and digital inner works and should provide a higher quality audio path than the ATW series (think for music), for a bit more money.

$300 is rather below the "reliable" range.
Some people have luck with Azden, but most people swear at them.
But even Azden's halfway-decent line are more like $400

What Mr. Crowley says. The Sennheiser G3 systems are the lower limit that most professional dialog recordists are willing to use. Any less reliability and/or shorter range are seen as not worth using. And it's not like these people love spending the money on the better systems. They do it because the job requires the level of reliability and range that the better equipment provides.

But I want to also point this out: wireless is a last resort. You should only use wireless when there's no other way to get the job done.

Why? Because the laws of physics being what they are, we know that no wireless radio set can sound as good as a $20 USD XLR cable. It's not possible; it can't be done. We also know that no wireless radio set can be anywhere near as reliable as that $20 USD XLR cable. Not even close.

I'm just sayin' if you have to use a lavalier, go wired. It'll save your budget, improve your sound, and improve your reliability. And if you're located in an RF hell like Manhattan or LA, it might save your sanity.

wireless is a last resort. You should only use wireless when there's no other way to get the job done.
A $30 cable is infinitely superior to a $3000 wireless kit.

I got a Samson unit that does OK and wasn't expensive. I bought it early on, then replaced it with a better unit, and then moved it to my backup.

Cheaper units usually have 2 main potential failings: 1) quality of build is poorer. Most often the cords but not always. Solder joints, and internals, too. 2) Signal quality. Part of this goes back to build quality, of course.

If you want to go cheaper, the better option might be refurbed DJ style mics. For instance, I have a dual receiver unit, selectable channel on each. I can use handheld, headset, or lav mics. Its not portable, but allows me to use 2 lav units coming back to one location, separate XLR outputs. Mine is Shure brand. Next I'll buy some antennae extenders to improve distance/quality (like these, but they have to be the same frequency as the mic/receiver http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00076WNXO/ref=s9_wish_gw_d36_g267_i3?ie=UTF8&colid=U98D4VGZWOSD&coliid=I1VN2F1HVA2QFU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=1SJVPF1TQ9GWJRQKVYHS&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2079475242&pf_rd_i=desktop)

And here is a newer version of my mic rig: Shure BLX188 DUAL Lavalier System with CVL Lavalier microphone | Musician's Friend (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/lavalier-microphone-wireless-systems/shure-blx188-dual-lavalier-system-with-cvl-lavalier-microphone)

Works for us since we stick to weddings, so needing a plug in isn't a problem.

Can you guys still use VHF units in the USA ..If so a temporary solution would be the VHF Azden units which typically sell for around $150 and work very well ....the band, of course, might not be legal in the USA or here of course but I still have one set here that I use for communication between myself and a 2nd shooter and it still works well.

I personally would spring for the AT System 10 for the extra $100 ...it seems to be very good so far and Jim has done some excellent tests on the other thread too... as long as you keep within 100' or so you won't have any issues ... at weddings that is highly unlikely anyway!

Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure the tests were quite as excellent as all that, but they were good enough to make me think I have a reasonable solution - remembering of course that all I'm looking for is a sync track for three cameras that are 80 feet from the action.

Everyone always uses distance as some kind of arbiter? I can do 300 ft from a distant shotgun to my camera until a pigeon lands next to the pack, and I've struggled to get twenty feet across a stage on other occasions. If the occasional dropout isn't a problem, then cheap may be sufficient. Trouble is even expensive is not foolproof when signal strength at the low end is variable. The best ones have decent signal to noise, excellent diversity operation and a good front end design, but if your success or fail criteria is distance, then you are on a wing and a prayer with all kit.

Just reporting back that I've been able to feed my AT System 10 transmitter from the Tape Out of my SD 702 and pick up a clean track at the receiver.

Hi Paul

Maybe if one is working half a mile down the road ..Honestly I can say that with my Azden 100ULT units I have never had any sort of dropout so they are stable ..but then again I'm always light of sight and I bought them for $499 as well (in fact one set was from the USA on eBay and was used at $150.00)

Jim? That's nice to know ..it that the same signal level as a line out?? My current units only take a lav mic!!

Chris

The reason distance is so important is, naturally, the closer to each other they are, the better the signal.

That also applies to any interference. The closer IT is to the receiver, the more of a problem it will be.

So, because cheaper mics often have poorer components or build quality, they don't do a good job of locking on to the signal you want, necessarily. If you always work close to the mic (man on the street interviews, maybe), then a cheap mic should be an issue. If you work in a massive cathedral in the middle of downtown Washington D.C..... then you're going to have problems.

So, the cheaper the mic, the more distance matters.

Interference could be another mic on the same frequency (or very close), but is more likely a non-mic. For instance, the noise my old mics started to get once the new wi-fi standard was in place. Old mics in the U.S. were on the bandwidth where wifi is now.

Or, there is one lake resort, in the middle of no where, outdoors, my mics got all kinds of noise, even when I was 20 feet from the receiver. No idea what caused it. Hasn't happened anywhere else.

Hi Chris

I believe the Tape Out is at consumer line level (-10) as opposed to the regular Line level (+4)

I found a Switchcraft box that takes consumer stereo line out from a 3.5mm cable to Mono mic out (Balanced, I believe) XLR (Switchcraft 318 AudioStix 3.5mm Stereo to XLR Mono A/V DI with Volume Control)

I had Markertek (John Erceg is the custom cable guy - very helpful) make up an unbalanced XLR female to Hirose HR10-7P-4S 4 pin female cable about 18 inches long with Pin 1 (Gnd) and Pin 3 (Mic) connected. It was around $35.

Seems to work just fine, but I'll have the real story after recording a concert with it feeding three balcony cams this coming Saturday. I could probably have just used the included lav taped to the mic stand, but I don't know that a lav is quite the right mic for a symphony orchestra:<)

Attenuating +4dB balanced to -10dB unbalanced is a cheap and easy L-pad config., even w/ basic soldering skills and a few low cost resistors.. (Hopefully there are still some Radio Shack stores around in yer area) Boosting -10 to +4dB requires an amplifier (not cheap and/or easy).

The trick was finding out exactly what connector was on the transmitter - and when I found out it seemed that quantity 1 cost more than having the cable made up. Haven't done fine soldering in decades, and my eyesight is abysmal.

A similar box to the Switchcraft 318, is the DSAN LSP-1. The main differences being the cable is permanently attached on the LSP-1 and the volume control is large enough to use for live adjustments.

I could certainly see the benefits of both style boxes depending on your circumstances. Both have transformer isolation and ground lift switches.

Also you'll know if your signal coming out of the Tape Out is mono compatible... Because if it isn't, you won't have anything getting transmitted.

The Sony ECM-AW4 bluetooth device looks interesting and may be a solution of a simple single semi pro camcorder solution.

The Instructions are here and basically it looks like a two way device with audio going in both directions to each unit. http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/4533246021.pdf

There is an ext mic input on the top of each unit that may have plug in power for a lav and a headphone output for recording or indeed using the presenter end as a simple IFB or talkback unit.

Ok bluetooth is not the best transmission system but for basic operations it may be good enough if used with care.

I was hesitant at first but for the price it may be worth looking into.

Well, I tried running the process end-to-end. Couldn't see any audio coming out of the MOTU box but then I remembered that it treats 1/2 TRS as Line and XLR as mic (pad in the TRS input????)

Anyhow, once I switches to XLR in everything seems fine and I was able to do a test record in one of the cameras and use the MOTU controls to set appropriate levels for the BMPCC. When I get home tomorrow night I'll hook up the other two cameras (BMCC and C100) and set set levels appropriately, then break it all down and pack it for transportation to the venue Sat AM.

What abut the new Rodelink digital mics that have just come on the market?
Altho I haven't seen a confirmed price yet.

What abut the new Rodelink digital mics that have just come on the market?
Altho I haven't seen a confirmed price yet.

They are here in the Uk and the price is here: Buy - Rode RodeLink Filmmaker Kit - Digital Wireless System for Filmmakers includes receiver, transmitter and lavalier microphone (http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/rode_rodelink-filmmaker-kit)

As friend has one and says it is OK but I suppose the usual wifi issues may upset other surfers if it conflicts with their service.

With tax they work out around £100 cheaper than a sennheiser G3 so long term I would still go for that system.