DVD is becoming obsolete, just last week I did a presentation and posted on youtube (as requested) , but the President of the company wanted a copy to keep and when it came to discuss the media then... problems.

He didn't have a DVD player (it was somewhere stored in the basement). I proposed a memory stick with MP4 to be played on the laptop and that I did. But then I was thinking of a better way so I went to bestbuy to see the TVsets on sale and all of them had the USB with a built in player (they call it "APP" now... it's a player anyway) for MWV, AVI and quicktime (those are the most common formats that can be played on almost all the current TVsets with USB)
in the store I could only find 1 Sony capable of playing MP4.

So is the future of our distribution with the USB sticks? in AVI or MOV? or WMP? for edited material obviously (I don't really know if the ability to play from the camera via hdmi could help me or help us shooting events and weddings)

back to my particular Client and how to give him the work it's obvious that I can't literally go to each home to test the TVset that they have. But we should start talking about this because it's not the first time that I hear about the DVD player stored in the basement or something like that.

Now publishing on Youtube (after getting paid for the work) is ok but sometimes I have to deal with Clients who want a tangible media to keep.

BD is out of the question (nobody has a player, many don't even know what it is).

So it's either the good old DVD (if they have a player still and for how long???) , youtube or USB at this point. at least as I see it.

What's your experience?

For corporate clients I would give them a media player with a USB thumbdrive ..that way they can play the USB on a computer or plug the media player into their TV if it's own USB input doesn't play video ..most I have tried seem to love a bunch of JPEG's and play a slideshow but few can play video.

What I give my corporate clients is an LCD brochure ..it's completely non technical and it's just a book with a hall effect sensor in the cover that plays your video on a TFT LCD screen .. it's self powered and the internal LI-Ion battery recharges on a computer or any 5v USB charger (including phone chargers) ...it's small enough to drop into a briefcase and they hand it to a client ..the client opens the cover and the video presentation plays ..close the cover and it stops! Simple and cost effective !! and clients love the fact that don't don't need to connect anything or plug in anything .. no degree in computer engineering is required

My supplier has from small 2.5" LCD's right up to 10" LCD's and all are self contained. I use generic covers but you can also get customised covers too!!

My brides also get one in their package and they absolutely love it ..it's has instant gratification appeal!!

https://youtu.be/Y9g3cD02j-E

Chris

A fat32 formatted usb stick with a h264 mp4 file plays on mac and pc and almost all current tv's support that too. I have delivered in this way to all my weddingclients last year and had zero complaints.

^^ I've never found anything that wouldn't play an h264 (i.e. mp4) on a FAT32 stick. That's what I use.

I wouldn't say DVD is becoming obsolete and the thing about no one having a Blu-ray player, well, that's not true either. A lot of wedding folks seem to be trying to push the USB or digital delivery method, which I don't agree with.

Why not offer all?

Weddings I offer Blu-ray, DVD, and USB. For corp clients they always request digital files, raw files on hdd, and depending on length of event, a DVD.

But as others have said, H.264 MP4 is the way to go for USB and digital files. :)

I'm really going to start pushing the USB route myself.

I'm putting together this video I shot for a local photographer where I used my D750... I made a test mp4 of the rough cuts at 720p and put it on a drive and put it in my TV... quality is crazy out of this world good on my 6 year old 55" TV. Even at 720p! (and it's a 1080 tv).

I have a LG 55" TV that I bought 3 years ago that the USB port won't play any video. It's on the user manual it only play JPEG as slideshow. Until the day smart TV is in everybody's home (which we cannot control), i can't deliver a thumbdrive and assume they play on my client's TV.

I am in the middle of customizing this USB/HDMI dongle. When plug to computer, it is a regular USB drive. When plug to TV HDMI Port, it plug and play my HTML5 menu and play videos. It is a plug-and-play turnkey device 100% work on any TV with HDMI port. Even HDMI 1.0 TV.

I'm gonna called it, the TakyDong :)

what about something like this

Android 4 2 Mini PC Hdmi Smart HD Google TV Stick BOX Dongle Quad Core Bluetooth | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/311123642291?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true)

seems to me I can load the wedding on a micro USB and the client can use it on any TV with HDMI - I don't have to worry about compatibility with the TV just the dongle

That will work. My setup is similar but with Android 4.4 (upgrade to 5.0 soon). I also have it prenatal and tuned to auto load browser to open my TakyBox HTML5 menu. So it will be a more DVD viewing experience. :)

I'm in the middle of pricing thumb drives, around 7 bucks or so on average, but then you add the case which, so 10 bucks, not bad.

I've never had any bride in my area ask me for a thumb drive, so I think it's an interesting sale in my area. A lot of bride's have their mothers paying for things and DVD is always king, not even blu-ray. So I think we are going to a more non-dvd area for certain clients, all you have to do is look at the price of DVD players to know there's a shift to online/file driven video vs hard copy.

Hey Chris, nice stuff on the book, if you have a resource for the book, I'd like to look into it.

I don't do weddings, but have delivered projects on thumb drives to a handful of customers, all intended for play on a laptop in HD, but have concerns for delivery on any thumb drive:

- Chaptering - I don't know HTML, and am not aware if/how menus can be made to work on a thumb drive,

- protection from erasure - I've always made the files "read only", but without applying a password. That way, if the customer ever decides they really want to erase the video, (maybe following a divorce), they are at least notified that they're erasing something that is "read only". They can erase it, but at least they get that one warning.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that if/when menus are included, then if the .iso file is copied to a thumb drive, it will be treated/handled the same way as a DVD, i.e. the menus are functional. I haven't tried it yet; if others have, please relate your experience.

As for Chris' LCD books, they look interesting and would like to know more about them, too.

Hi Guys

I get my books direct from China from the people below as they are prepared to have a generic cover and keep in in stock. They also have a nice low MOQ of 10 units so you are not stuck with 100's of something and you decide you want to change ... For low level orders we are looking at complete books for US$30 each.

Shiny Industrial Co.,Ltd
Shenzhen Hesheng Greeting Cards Co.,Ltd
Add:D8 Building,Daweishahe Industrial Park,Gongming Street,Guangming,Shenzhen 518106
T: (+86) 755 61135181 F: (+86) 755 61137039
E: sales04@heshengcards.com


Chris

So for those of you offering on Thumb-drives...how exactly are you doing that?
What is the file format you use?
Are you able to provide chapters? If not...do you have a single stream of the entire wedding or break up the video into different clips?

I'm toying with this idea for 2016 but I'm worried that I will get a lot of customers that can't get it to work/play and then I will become a glorified technical support person!

What is the file format you use?

...I'm worried that I will get a lot of customers that can't get it to work/play and then I will become a glorified technical support person!

I haven't done this in at least a year, but last time I did there was no need for chapters, so I think I put it out in 3 different formats: as an .avi file, as an .mpg file, and as .mp4. I thought .avi would be a "safe bet" , because:
- the thumb drive had plenty of space for storage, and
- (at least in my understanding) because of the nearly-universal ability of .avi being playable on even an older computer/laptop, and
- less "decompression", technical know-how, and latest whiz-bang hardware was required to play it.
It seemed to me that .avi would present the most widely available, least problematic format. If the other formats worked, then that was a "bonus".
In this scenario, the only drawback would have been the default "play" characteristics of whatever machine/computer was being used, i.e. the "user" had to decide which of the 3 file formats displayed best on the machine being used at the moment. For that particular project, the customer had an "older" laptop that was "off the shelf" and didn't qualify as a "workhorse" by any means. They said they were happy with the options. (For "safety" reasons, I still set each individual file to be "read only").

Hope this helps.

Chris, do they offer anything that you can print one-off on your own? I'd like to distribute one per video, but I don't do weddings or events, so a generic "wedding" theme wouldn't work for me. But if there were something plain white I could run through my laser printer, it'd be perfect. The website (entirely in Chinese) wasn't much help.

Hi Mike

The best place to go would probably Global Sources 4.3 Inches LCD Brochure with Video Print/Card and Mailer, Customized Designs are Accepted on Global Sources (http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Video-occasion/p/sm/1058541120.htm#1058541120) they list all the bulk manufacturers and then you can negotiate with each supplier. There is actually a myriad of combinations you can get. The first sample I bought was just the module itself (preassembled) and a template for various sizes. I then printed my own case but you do need a printer that handles bigger widths. They will also supply you on request a plain white pre-assembled book and then you can print a sleeve for it. Just be careful with minimum order quantities .. some will only sell you 100 units but nowdays most will drop to 10 at a time. They are happy to send you a sample too but it's not free.

Looks like ~$30/ea?

Too rich for me, but I will keep them in mind.

Hi Mike

Yep $30.00 each ..bear in mind that it's preprinted and has all the electronics/hall effect sensor/LCD screen preassembled and li-ion battery .... Every bride who has seen it says it's awesome so it adds a lot of value to my package for a small cost ... Sheesh, an el cheapo photo album from the supermarket costs more than that

I'm gonna called it, the TakyDong :)

With a name like that, how can it fail!

You have a good idea Taky. I have been looking at USB but it only works for some situations. Higher volume sales get kind of pricey. Data DVD discs with mp4 files on them work as well.

I think DVD will always be there. I also think that "normal" people really know less about tech that we think they do. Everybody knows DVD. It is a shame that the powers that be have decided to do away with optical media. At least it is a standard.

Publishing on YouTube only is going to lead us to lower and lower pay as internet = free to most people. Without a physical delivery the value to the client just seems less imho.

I know we supposed to be advancing but I find it harder and harder to deliver stuff to people these days. HD files are so large that it freaks a lot of people out. It often leads right back to good ol' DVD. :(

With a name like that, how can it fail!

You have a good idea Taky. I have been looking at USB but it only works for some situations. Higher volume sales get kind of pricey. Data DVD discs with mp4 files on them work as well.

I think DVD will always be there. I also think that "normal" people really know less about tech that we think they do. Everybody knows DVD. It is a shame that the powers that be have decided to do away with optical media. At least it is a standard.

Publishing on YouTube only is going to lead us to lower and lower pay as internet = free to most people. Without a physical delivery the value to the client just seems less imho.

I know we supposed to be advancing but I find it harder and harder to deliver stuff to people these days. HD files are so large that it freaks a lot of people out. It often leads right back to good ol' DVD. :(

yes I agree , you took a pretty accurate picture of how it is right now. But the future? Like I said in my tests @bestbuy it came out clear that as of today the most played format via USB is WMV , in 4K. But that depends on the built-in player they put in the TVset. Tomorrow everything can change. In my particular case the Client didn't have a DVD, didn't have a BD player , just a "recent" TVset and again that didn't help: we can't go to each house to check the TV that they have. A standard is needed! like it was VHS and DVDs before.
At the same time I believe that this is something important for us... How are we going to distribute in 1-2-3-5 years?

I also agree about youtube , but that's a reality, everybody knows about it and it became the most important place to watch videos, either we like it or not. I'm afraid that we're going to have to come to terms with it, sooner or later. I don't like it, as much as you don't like it but...

Hi Mike

Yep $30.00 each ..bear in mind that it's preprinted and has all the electronics/hall effect sensor/LCD screen preassembled and li-ion battery .... Every bride who has seen it says it's awesome so it adds a lot of value to my package for a small cost ... Sheesh, an el cheapo photo album from the supermarket costs more than that
I mis-spoke. From a value perspective, it's amazing what you get for thirty bucks. From a "how much can I make for it" perspective, I don't think it'll increase the income stream at all. But it is downright amazing that you can get a full-on portable TV for thirty bucks!

I've had USB as a delivery format available for a while, but haven't really pushed it at all, but recently was asked about formats for HD delivery and gave the couple a USB along with their DVDs . They loved it and have now ordered 14 copies of video and stills on USB.

This has decided me to push USB delivery harder, so now take a sample to all my potential clients when I visit them, and display USB video at wedding shows. Most of the new clients that I visit seem to have HD TVs with USB facilities and I also take a simple Sumvision Cyclone media player with me. This connects to any HDMI input and enables me to show HD video and stills directly to their TV via USB stick or SD card. If they can't play the USB straight to their TV, then the Cyclones are only about £20 which they seem to feel is worthwhile to get full HD playback.

I am now offering all packages with DVD and USB, with presentation cases for the USB in various styles. The drives are supplied with our logo and 'Our Wedding' engraved on opposite sides. Depending on the case, a 16gb drive with case costs me about £7, so I include one with the package, plus 2 DVDs. I have attached a pic of one of the cases which comes with a white tissue lined box.

Roger

Roger, that's great!

What format are you using for the videos?

Do you have a single file for the entire wedding or do you somehow break it up into "chapters" and/or clips of different events?

I will be making this transition myself by 2016.

Hi Ian,

I render to MP4, taking care that the file extension is .MP4 as extensions such as .mts aren't always recognised. I edit the video ready for rendering to DVD first, with the usual chapter points, then split the files at the chapter points putting a fade in and out of black at each split. I then save each 'chapter' as a separate MP4 file. I number them sequentially and put them onto the USB drive in sequence. Most systems will then play them in sequence automatically, and few wedding clients bother with using menus on DVDs anyway, so feel that the advantage of HD delivery outweighs the USB disadvantages.

Roger

It also depends on the couples "tech savy" ... I have had very little if any questions from brides on delivery format so either they don't care as long as they can watch it or they are happy with DVD's ... Despite being a small screen device our LCD video albums certainly go down well with brides but that's probably because of the "instant gratification" they get ...(open album and watch the wedding versus get a UDB?DVD plug it in turn everything on sit down and watch)

I really wonder if brides would complain bitterly if we only supplied USB ?? The only reason I still supply DVD is that it looks more value for money than a USB ... 3 x double DVD cases with printed disks and covers look "more" than a little jewellery box with a USB inside .... then again her diamond ring also came in a tiny box didn't it??

Chris

It also depends on the couples "tech savy" ... I have had very little if any questions from brides on delivery format so either they don't care as long as they can watch it or they are happy with DVD's ... Despite being a small screen device our LCD video albums certainly go down well with brides but that's probably because of the "instant gratification" they get ...(open album and watch the wedding versus get a UDB?DVD plug it in turn everything on sit down and watch)

I really wonder if brides would complain bitterly if we only supplied USB ?? The only reason I still supply DVD is that it looks more value for money than a USB ... 3 x double DVD cases with printed disks and covers look "more" than a little jewellery box with a USB inside .... then again her diamond ring also came in a tiny box didn't it??

Chris

Here ya go Chris...

Promotion Flash Drive Usb Ring 4gb Photo, Detailed about Promotion Flash Drive Usb Ring 4gb Picture on Alibaba.com. (http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Promotion-flash-drive-usb-ring-4GB_1291871259/showimage.html)

Regarding formats and chapters, if you export your mp4 as a Quicktime your chapters points from your sequence timeline are kept intact (at least from Premiere Pro).

I just did a test by exporting Quicktime, then choosing an h.264 720p preset and in both Quicktime Players 7 & 10 the chapters were there.

Then I changed the file extension to .mp4 and opened the file in VLC and the chapters were still there.

I'm going to fire up a windows 7 & XP PC and see if they work.

Mark

Regarding formats and chapters, if you export your mp4 as a Quicktime your chapters points from your sequence timeline are kept intact (at least from Premiere Pro).

I just did a test by exporting Quicktime, then choosing an h.264 720p preset and in both Quicktime Players 7 & 10 the chapters were there.

Then I changed the file extension to .mp4 and opened the file in VLC and the chapters were still there.

I'm going to fire up a windows 7 & XP PC and see if they work.

Mark

Will they still play on a TV with a USB input, otherwise they will be limited to watching on a computer.

Roger

Will they still play on a TV with a USB input, otherwise they will be limited to watching on a computer.

Roger

Not all TVs with USB inputs can play video at all. My two don't so can't test it.

The Windows 7 test: files play in VLC, Quicktime & Media Player. QT plays chapters correctly. VLC can see them but jumps to the wrong point so that's a fail.
Windows Media Player doesn't see the chapters at all but plays the files fine.

Maybe Taky's on the right track with an HDMI device or Chromecast type thingy.

The big problem here is we never know what the bride has at her home and even if her latest TV does in fact play MP4 video when she takes the USB drive to even a friend's house imagine the issues when she discovers the friend's TV doesn't even have a USB input ! My TV doesn't!!

I know I go on a bit about the bride sharing her day with friends but I want referrals and the best way to get those is for the bride to share her day with people her age that are potential brides in the next year or too. OK it's cute that Nana can watch the video but her friend's are highly unlikely to be future clients so my target is always the bride's friends and the best way to expose your work to them is with a device that is very easily playable at a moments notice and without any tech knowledge ... I have a media player here which plays HD files off a drive perfectly and it's cheap as chips too BUT I cannot see a bride packing up a media box, HDMI cable, AC adapter into a bag and then having to assemble and connect somewhere else just so her friends can see her wedding. Media needs to be ultra simple and idiot proof too. We tend to forget that brides are usually not technically people ..sure they can operate a Smart Phone with magic fingers but I cannot see many figuring out cables and settings.

The LCD albums we use still give the best solution for me and they STILL are tech proof too! I booked a bride last week and the Mother picked up the album, vanished into the living room and watched the complete wedding highlights ... OK it's not a 50" screen with home theatre speakers but it does give immense satisfaction .. the bride not only booked immediately but paid everything up front the same day! My sorta customer!!

If there is something that can do the same thing with absolutely no hassles then tell me about it as it needs to be on my "must buy" list

- Chaptering - I don't know HTML, and am not aware if/how menus can be made to work on a thumb drive,
.

I have created a HTML 5 menu system called TakyBox. It can handle chapter mark. Check out this link. Go under Scene Selection. The video is terrain from Vimeo.com but playback chapter mark.

the same menu system is also for thumbdrive delivery

http://takybox.com/vimeo

Photographers have always had the edge with being able to deliver multiple desirable physical artefacts whether it's canvas print or a luxurious wedding album & videographers have always been at a disadvantage because their product is more intangible. Chris's LCD albums are a really nice way of putting something physical into the client's hands so they feel that they are really getting something for their money.

so I think I put it out in 3 different formats: as an .avi file, as an .mpg file, and as .mp4. I thought .avi would be a "safe bet" , because:
- the thumb drive had plenty of space for storage, and
- (at least in my understanding) because of the nearly-universal ability of .avi being playable on even an older computer/laptop, and
- less "decompression", technical know-how, and latest whiz-bang hardware was required to play it.
It seemed to me that .avi would present the most widely available, least problematic format. If the other formats worked, then that was a "bonus".


Denis, .mpg is mpeg 2. .mp4 is mpeg 4 in h.264 codec. .mpg is actually the safest bet as all computers can playback .mpeg 2. H.264 .Mp4 is next and is currently the safest bet. Mp4 deliveres the best quality in same bit rate as .mpg, almost all modern computers, tablet , smart phones can playback ,mp4

.avi is the worst one to choose, avi is not a codec. It is a container. It can be any format, Sorenson, mpeg2, h.264, indeo, Windows media etc. should avoid deliver upswing .avi

This is my mp4 encoding format recommendation

Recommended Encoder Settings for USB Thumbdrive Delivery | L.A. Color Pros Blog (http://www.lacolorpros.com/blog/?10312-Recommended-Encoder-Settings-for-USB-Thumbdrive-Delivery)

Hi Nigel

My feelings exactly BUT I still cannot see why a videographer cannot provide a higher perceived value product to the bride anyway whether it's a DVD set or USB set?? Surely a little more effort (adequately compensated financially of course with a price adjustment) can be achieved with a similar smart album if the LCD route is not preferred? A nice white satin album with some prints (you have to shoot stills for the DVD covers so just zap a few more) and then maybe organise the inside pages to be die cut from your local prints so disk cases can drop into the cut outs.

There must be tons of ways one can make a product appear better value for money ..I remember one member here used to present the DVD cases along with some printed movie tickets and a box of popcorn to clients ..if one was ambitious one could even supply the disks, a new popcorn maker and a bag of corn ready to go .... sounds "corny" (excuse the pun) but an impression with a little extra effort can make a huge difference!

The only reason I still supply DVD is that it looks more value for money than a USB ... 3 x double DVD cases with printed disks and covers look "more" than a little jewellery box with a USB inside .... then again her diamond ring also came in a tiny box didn't it??


I think we need to explain to our clients why dvd sucks, using a nice dvdbox with color printed dvd doesn't make it a better product, it may look nicer to present but to me this is like using the body of a Ferrari but put the engine in of a Lada. Especially the last year I have told all my clients why they need to have their wedding in HD and not crappy SD dvd and I also showed them what the difference is. I actually had placed dvd on my option list, they can still get them but it will cost them extra.

For me it's time to finally deliver in the quality I shoot at, dvd has had it's time, the fact that many clients don't seem to know the difference is our fault, if we don't show them, they ofcourse don't care because they don't know any better. But once you show them and tell them it doesn't cost them any more they would be stupid not to pick a HD copy.

Usb in such a case is the easiest way to deliver, for me it's just a way to transport it to the client, what they do with it is up to them, if their tv supports it they can plug it in, if it doesn't, they can get a mediaplayer that will make it work.

Despite being a small screen device our LCD video albums certainly go down well with brides but that's probably because of the "instant gratification" they get ...(open album and watch the wedding versus get a UDB?DVD plug it in turn everything on sit down and watch)

While I feel it looks great what you offer I think it can be done much easier and have an even more instant gratification; I let them download the trailer from my video account directly to their phone, all today's brides have oversized smartphones with excellent screens and if there is one device that is always on them, no matter where they go or what they do, it's their smartphone. If your digital album would fail then it's up to you to fix it or to have it replaced but the download files I supply are failsafe, their smartphone maybe not but that is not my problem.

While I understand brides prefer to have their film presented in a shiny box I would only be happy with that if the contents in that box are of the highest quality I can deliver.

Hi Noa

I did use the term DVD as an example ..it can of course be USB or BluRay etc etc ... I know we would love brides to see our work in the highest possible resolution so it's shown off at it's very best BUT it also has to be a "no hassle play" ... Sure, supply in BluRay and the bride then thinks "shucks now I have to buy a new player .. and worst of all I have to get hubby to connect it up which will take a month at least because I can never get him to do anything for me"

On the other side of the coin I really wonder is brides even bother to look at resolution .. sure we pixel peep but they are only looking at content ! I have shot weddings in 4:3 on my Panasonic AVC20's with 1/6" chips and plastic lens and watched them with brides on a huge TV which stretched the image to 16:9 and the groom was blown away .."It's so clear" he said ... 720x676 video on a big screen and he thought it was perfect. Yes, I DO want brides to watch my footage at 1080 but I wonder if they really care ... I have never had a quality complaint from a DVD. On the other hand miss the cutting of the cake after kiss whether it's in SD or HD and she will be on the phone to you the next day!!

I do agree with providing a highlight video for download and yes we do have all our supplied highlights available online for brides ...some go crazy over the online video some might only watch it once. Do they all download the video onto their phone ..do they have enough space or is the phone full of selfies ...one never knows??

The bottom line of this conversation is something I have said many times and that's "we need to supply what the bride wants, NOT what we THINK she wants" .... The big issue of course is to figure exactly what the bride wants!! What we REALLY want on this forum is a bride who can throw in a few posts and tell us, "Boys you are doing it all wrong ..you have no idea what we want!! Now THIS is what you should be doing"

Chris

Deleted double post.

Some photographers put all their pictures on a disk and that's all they deliver.

Traditional old school & other pro photographers have a range of products - albums, thank you cards, large prints, coffee table books, video slideshows… what the bride wants is up to the bride to choose.

The MP4 file USB is one product, if you like, in our potential range of DVD, Blu-ray, Taky box, Chris' picture player thingy, these are all options we can give to them, as well as wireless delivery where I envisage is where we're headed.

I imagine the tech savvy young couples will know exactly what to do with the MP4 file: they'll stick it in their computer, transfer it to their smartphone/tablet/NAS media server, upload it to whatever they want. It is not really our concern what they do with it.

If they are not savvy and they don't know what to do with it, then that option is inappropriate and they will need to choose a different medium. USBs may not last that long either as smartphones are too thin, iPads & Galaxy pads don't have them and some laptops are phasing them out as they get thinner too. And most young people these days don't have a desktop machine.

We just need to give them options and I'm grateful this forum lets us share those ideas.

Some photographers put all their pictures on a disk and that's all they deliver.

Traditional old school & other pro photographers have a range of products - albums, thank you cards, large prints, coffee table books, video slideshows… what the bride wants is up to the bride to choose.

The MP4 file USB is one product, if you like, in our potential range of DVD, Blu-ray, Taky box, Chris' picture player thingy, these are all options we can give to them, as well as wireless delivery where I envisage is where we're headed..
The nice thing from the photographers point of view is that all these different products are an up sell that generates more income. Unfortunately because of the intangible nature of video it's difficult to sell more versions of the same finished product in different formats. The photographer can sell the same photograph in different physical forms (album, canvas, thank you cards, beer mats...). A videographer will struggle to sell as separate line items a download, a USB, a DVD & a Blu-ray charging separately for each physical incarnation of the same video.

We just need to give them options

We should, if you have a couple that only has a dvd player, is not interested in getting anything else and just wants to pop in a dvd because she knows that works, then that is what we should supply, but we should give them a HD file anyway, she will be gratefull one day when she figures out it is a much higher quality image of her wedding.

BUT it also has to be a "no hassle play"

Ok, but should that determine the qualitylevel we supply? maybe in a few years 8K is the standard but let's still deliver a simple dvd because we don't want to make it too difficult for the couple? If I have a client that tells me, "I don't care if it is a lower quality, just give me a dvd", only then I will supply them just that

we need to supply what the bride wants, NOT what we THINK she wants

So you think that brides want lower quality standard definition and not HD? Even if it would cost them the same amount?

I have never had a quality complaint from a DVD

That's because they don't know any better, if you don't show them the difference then they always will be happy.

some go crazy over the online video some might only watch it once. Do they all download the video onto their phone ..do they have enough space or is the phone full of selfies ...one never knows??

I think you underestimate the power of a well edited 5 minute trailer with all the highlights, the longer a film gets, the less it will be watched, make a 2 hour film and it will be watched once by the family and their closest friends after the wedding and maybe once a year by the couple, put a 5 minute trailer online and it will be watched over a 1000 times by 1000 different people in a few days time, the bride will watch that trailer over and over again because it will give her that feeling again of her wedding day in just a few minutes. Even the amount of space it takes on a mobile phone is negligible, those files can be very small. Every wedding I have this year the bride asked for a trailer, why? Because they have seen the trailers on my website and tell me they have watched it several times, and it's not even their own wedding. In that respect I have learned to know my clients very well and know exactly what a bride wants. A nice packaging is preferred but all that matters is what is inside and there is no excuse for delivering a low imagequality video.

The trouble with the rapid advance in image quality, is that the prime purpose is not to improve our viewing comfort, but to convince us that we need to spend more money on the latest technology to keep the manufacturers profits going.

That then results in a total lack of compatibility or even availability in delivery systems. We are discussing here how to deliver HD video to our clients instead of SD yet manufacturers are trying to get everybody to buy 4k TVs and cameras. If we are struggling to deliver HD to clients after years of filming in HD, how the hell do we deliver 4k when there is nothing to play it on let alone the looming prospect of 8k? It is technology for it's own sake, rather than to fulfil a public demand. I for one am perfectly happy to watch a broadcast programme or DVD in SD without being concerned about the quality and so are my wedding clients.

I have decided to deliver DVDs and one USB HD to every client simply so that they have a possibility of viewing something approaching the quality I film in. Whether they are able to play it or not is a problem for them and the manufacturers and is something that I am careful to point out to them. I always advise them on playing possibilities, but that is where my responsibility ends. I find it highly frustrating trying to push the manufacturers desire for ever higher quality when there is little support back on how to deliver that quality.

Chris's LCD book has instant appeal to Brides and is something I have looked at closely, but it is packaging limited quality in a more attractive alternative, rather than moving the quality forward.

Roger

I agree few couples pixel peep; I say couples as its often forgotten the Groom does have some say and it is his video too. I find chatting to the Groom they're more interested in tech than the Bride.

I do think many couples just do not realise the quality of SD vs HD. To be honest its more apparent on my 4k screen than it was on my hd tv. SD looks awful on my new TV to the point i now hate watching any of my DVDs, which wasn't an issue on my old tele. Will future TVs make DVD redundant. Quite possible. It is a few years away however.

Right now I'm still supplying DVD as an option, but the number of bluray and USB requests are showing a coming trend for the latter over the former. As Noa suggests, we need to educate couples who are unaware of the difference. Some may even think they're getting hd with a DVD. How many couples chose video cassettes for their Wedding video delivery after dvd became available and now regret their decision with their video player long gone.

If we are struggling to deliver HD to clients after years of filming in HD, how the hell do we deliver 4k when there is nothing to play it on let alone the looming prospect of 8k?

You are making a good point here, I don't think we are struggling to deliver HD, there is no reason whatsoever not to deliver in HD today, we only need to explain to our clients why they need HD, it's just a mindset that needs to be changed. We live in a time now where big led tv's, tablets, smartphone and the internet are the norm and we as videographers need to exploit that as much as we can. For a client it's only a very small step to go into the HD arena, 4K otoh is something we should not worry about, yet, but only use it to our advantage, but HD is here now, easy to watch, to deliver and to sell, why waste more time on dvd's? The only reason why still so many clients are ok with dvd's is because some of us videographers are ok with that too.

SD looks awful on my new TV to the point i now hate watching any of my DVDs

When I watch my wedding on dvd and after that on blu-ray I just hate to give a dvd to my clients, anyone who doesn't see a difference between a dvd and a blu-ray on a big led screen has either a SD camera or needs some glasses :)

You know as a videographer, I'm just as guilty of my clients of keeping DVD alive. A DVD disk is cheap, relatively easy to produce and rarely gets playback complaints from clients. USB of course has many issues with TV playback and even bluray has had problems for me from couples unable to play such disks on PlayStation devices.

That doesn't change that DVD as a video delivery is a poooor choice and would be apparent to most couples if time was taken to show the difference. They pay me to film HD and get a crappy SD picture in return.

You know as a videographer, I'm just as guilty of my clients of keeping DVD alive. A DVD disk is cheap, relatively easy to produce and rarely gets playback complaints from clients. USB of course has many issues with TV playback and even bluray has had problems for me from couples unable to play such disks on PlayStation devices.

That doesn't change that DVD as a video delivery is a poooor choice and would be apparent to most couples if time was taken to show the difference. They pay me to film HD and get a crappy SD picture in return.

All good points Steve and I do agree that as we produce HD edits it would be better to deliver in HD, but although I agree with Noa that HD is comparatively easy to deliver, that is where the problems start. The incompatibility between types of BluRay, players and formats, the inability of many TVs to play USB and no standard delivery system, just confuses clients and compounds the problems. At least with DVD it had been the only format that gave a massive improvement over VHS quality, became universally accepted, and is still the only format that just about everyone can play.

We are now in an era where any good technical ideas are immediately protected and available only through expensive licensing to other manufacturers. That means that all the main manufacturers want to develop and license their own product which is why we have so much incompatibility and no incentive for all companies to adopt the same platform. At least with VHS, the film industry saw the massive potential market in video hire and it took off globally, with DVD following along. Now the BluRay market is much more limited globally and streaming is taking the place of video hire. Streaming for small businesses like ours though is a difficult technology to commit to and is far from universal as a delivery and viewing format. It also takes away the value of the client having something tangible to own for the large amount of money they pay for their wedding video. I can see a client thinking ' Why am I paying hundreds or thousands of pounds/dollars to download my wedding video, when the latest blockbuster costs virtually nothing to stream compared!'

It's a conundrum that's likely to be around for a while.

Roger

I can see a client thinking ' Why am I paying hundreds or thousands of pounds/dollars to download my wedding video, when the latest blockbuster costs virtually nothing to stream compared!'

But that blockbuster could be streamed by a million people, if each only had to pay 1 dollar per view I wouldn"t mind charging that for my wedding videos either, if I had the same amount of people watching it. :)

I'm trying to recall if there were 2 disk formats battling it out at the beginning. Certainly there was for bluray as I recall my laptop did the ROM version which failed to win the battle.

DVD was a success because it took up less space than video, was similar to CD in appearance at least and avoided tape jam problems that were rare but memorable with video cassette. That said recorded TV to DVD never took off and its things like Sky + that really replaced the video recorder. If dvd is to die, something similar would be needed for hd and 4k. Its out there but limitations like internet speed still count against it, plus the format wars.

Something like a hard drive controlled through the TV, with an idiot proof interface would be one idea, online storage too. Trouble is we are on the threshold of a decent breakthrough in hd and 4k playback. It needs a dominent format that appeals to the masses.
No one but movie buffs are going to replace 1 shiny disk for another even if it means getting hd, but give them a new medium which requires no shelf space and is as easy to use as DVD, then HD and even dare I say 4k would have a better chance of acceptance than it does now.

How about taking the mobile phone to the next level, where it becomes the media player for the wedding video for viewing anywhere, and like a lot of phones now you can stream it by wifi to your smart TV for viewing at full screen full HD. It seems that we are pretty much there now, and It shouldn't be that long before all phones and TVs are compatible along the lines of Apple TV .

Roger

I have some issues with the value perception of a streaming delivery as well. I just seems your product gets taken down a notch when you deliver to the web instead of physical media. Kind of like it does get compared to the $1 download.