Looking to replace my X70 with 0.75 EXII wide converter with something that can handle zooming in cleaner, as well as a unit that has better quick manual controls. The infinite rotate focus, as well as the buttons that select a single adjust dial are killing me.

Both cameras seem to be about the same in low light, the X180 may have a slightly cleaner image at 18db? A little worried that 18db on the bigger cameras will look a stop or two darker than my X70 at 33db.

I am totally a wide angle shooter with my X70, it really makes the package usable to me. My 16x9 EXII's have 82mm thread adapters, but I am concerned the 82mm diameter of the X180 along with the 26mm native wide angle and how far back the front element is, will make mounting a wide converter on it impossible due to vignetting. I do see Sony has a twist on 0.8x converter for the PMW200, does anyone know if the X200 bayonet hood system is the same mount as the PMW200?

I am swaying towards the X180 at this time, not because of the price, but because of the lens capability. I might be happy with 26mm wide, but shooting 22mm now and might be hard to deal with less. Anyone with an X180 willing to let me ship my EXII wide converter to them for testing? Will pay shipping both ways. :)

Paul Anderegg

For those interested, the 3.7mm wide on the X180 works out to 6.5mm on a 2/3" B4 lens. Additional calculations indicate it takes f1.6 on the X180 to achieve the same apparent DOF as f2.8 on the 2/3" lens.

The X180 has a NON-STANDARD 19v power plug. It also runs hot because of the additional proxy recording functions.

G-series lenses lose more light throughout the zoom range than the Fujinon lenses. While you may be able to "theoretically" achieve the same DoF effect, you lose more light out of a slower lens on the X180.

The X200 is also MI Shoe compatible, so Sony wireless receivers need no XLR connections to connect to the camera.

IMO, go for the X200.

On eBay, the X160 can be gobbled up for $3500......the X20 for around $6000. That is a LOT of money difference. :-D

I don't have the slightest use for WiFi or proxy, but the possible inability to mount a wide converter on the huge X160/180 nose is a factor at work in this decision. For $6500 + $1300 for a Canon J11x4.5BIRS, I can pick up a used HPX600. I wish there were more options in the small camera with flip switches category, nothing seems "just right", regardless of the money you want to spend.

Paul

Also, to answer for the Bayonet mount, it has to be the same as the PMW-200 or else they can't continue selling the VCL-EX0877. It should mount.

I like 1/2'' sensors better than 1/3'' sensors with tons of processing behind it. With both cameras you have the advantage of 1080p60 recording, but if the pixels are physically bigger, adding better processing would only make the picture look better.

Paul

I checked out the PXW-X180. The smaller 1/3" sensors have a much harder time with dynamic range and it was easy to clip the whites. For me though by far the worst thing was the amount of light loss when you zoomed in to the full 25 x. The lens might be rated at F1.6 but as sure as hell it is not a constant aperture lens. At full zoom I was losing so much it felt more like F4.0 - F5.6. In low light it was a shocker on the long end. It's also soft with the gain up.

If you are talking about the PXW-X200 with its new 1/2" sensors that are quieter than the current PMW-300 plus rated one stop faster I would think I would take it any day over the 180... even with the shorter 17 x glass. What's the point of 25x if it's going to be killed with light loss on the longer end

The PXW-X160 is basically the same camera as the 180 but without the extras but sensors and lens much the same. Check this out. It's a 160 up against an EX1R comparo. Now imagine a quieter camera with another stop over the EX1R and you would be close to the 200. Hopefully I will have a 200 here this week to try out as it's been high on my check out list for size, weight, sensitivity, codecs, price etc.

Sony X160 vs Sony EX1R - YouTube

Also have a look at this. This is Sony's official PXW-X180 video. A lot of the outdoor material is showing what appears to be clipped highlights. I'm not saying that with some massaging of the knee and slope settings something couldn't be done to minimise this but you are still up against the smaller sensors lack of dynamic range.

PXW-X180 (XDCAM 3CMOS Camcorder) Beauty Images - YouTube

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

With my 2/3" lenses, I always went with J22's from Canon. the benefit of a LONG lens, is that you can reach what would be the maximum telephoto of a 17-18x lens, where it would ramp to it's fullest, but still be kind of in the middle of the 22x ramping. I was hoping the 25x on the X series would be better, at least MUCH better than the zoom in 1mm and get f4.0 on the X70.

My main priority here is to resolve the problems with quick manual physical controls lacking on the X70, as well as usable zoom length without the associated horrible exploded Ci grain at f4.0 at night. That would mean I am not comparing the X180 to the X200, as to which of those would produce a better picture, but which one of those would resolve my issues and spit out the footage my station likes in illumination challenged night scenes. :)

Paul

PXW-X160 vs PMW-200 - YouTube

I will come from experience with an NX5/EX1R live switched show recently that the G-series lenses lose a ton of light at full telephoto. It is as Chris describes at F4.0-F5.6. The Fujinon lenses only go to F2.8, which is very handy in low light.

1.6 all the way to 5.6? :-O

Best way to determine how many stops are lost, is to set the camera wide open with a zebra pattern, then zoom in, and see how many db of gain it takes to brighten up that section of video to get the zebra back. Every 6db you have to add is a stop. I did that test with my old SPX800 against my station issued JVC HM790. The SD SPX800 (f13@2000) was a cool 9db brighter across the board......it also had like a 65db s/n ratio. :)

Paul

Hopefully will have a x200 within the next 48 hours so will get stuck into it to see what it can deliver.

Re lens fall off I used to just stick the cameras on a WFM and measure the voltage at full wide zoom and full open iris with sufficient lighting at full open so as not to over expose the image. Next, still wide open I would adjust the iris down stop by stop and measure and make a note of the voltage at each stop down. Finally leaving the iris wide open I would zoom in fully and measure the voltage drop. Comparing fully zoomed voltage drop with my stop-down chart I would get a pretty accurate idea of just how much was lost throughout the zoom and just where the ramp really started to kick in.

As I said hopefully will find out in the next few days!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Just got an email response from B&H advising me the Sony W/A converter will not fit on the X200. They also stated it was incompatible. Not sure why they specified those two things in separate sentences, but that certainly sucks that the bayonet mount is different. (per them)

Paul

Really? And Sony has not made a new wide angle converter to work with the new lens? You're supposed to launch a camera with a new wide angle lens if you've changed the lens.

This will truly screw people over if this is the case, but then this is a customer service rep we're talking about here.

Edit: And I've double checked, no one online has even tried to fit the VCL-EX0877 to a PXW-X200. We're currently only assuming it's incompatible.

Paul -
I'm kinda in the same boat as you are. I've been scouting out all the cams for well over a year now and still .... nothing that catches my uh, wallet.


On eBay, the X160 can be gobbled up for $3500......the X20 for around $6000. That is a LOT of money difference. :-D

I don't have the slightest use for WiFi or proxy, but the possible inability to mount a wide converter on the huge X160/180 nose is a factor at work in this decision. For $6500 + $1300 for a Canon J11x4.5BIRS, I can pick up a used HPX600. I wish there were more options in the small camera with flip switches category, nothing seems "just right", regardless of the money you want to spend.

When the X70 came out last summer I thought this would be it. Looked at a bunch of other cams but each one leaves me wanting. Now waiting for jVC because I like the form factor and they way they have the controls laid out.

My need is for something with button/rocker controls and the X70 and HM200 form factor size-wise (but not sure about the light gathering capability). Don't need as good of a low-light cam as you want but still would like something reasonably good. A 3-ring seems out of the question because of the smaller form factor but need a good compromise with the controls for the equivalent. Wide angle would be nice but not a must-have.

Really starting to think about interchangeable lenses. Why buy a cam with a lens when they get outdated so quickly? It could make sense to get a cam without a lens and in the next upgrade you'd already have a chunk of the new cam bought. Good glass is really expensive. Going with a B-roll cam could be cheaper if one had more than one lens.

The 4K isn't a must-have but a really nice-to-have and it doesn't seem to be a passing fad. It seems the cams are starting to mature and hopefully the new models will have more of what we want.

What the heck, waited this long so waiting now for what comes out at Vegas. Interested in seeing what you come up with.

The PXW160 looks great, as I don't have any use for WiFi either, but I am feeling queazy about buying it on Ebay, Amazon, etc. The camera is not "officially" available in the U.S. (don't get me started), so I am wondering about Sony's warranty issues if one is bought on Ebay. Can anyone shed light on this? Thanks.

Really? And Sony has not made a new wide angle converter to work with the new lens? You're supposed to launch a camera with a new wide angle lens if you've changed the lens.

This will truly screw people over if this is the case, but then this is a customer service rep we're talking about here.

Edit: And I've double checked, no one online has even tried to fit the VCL-EX0877 to a PXW-X200. We're currently only assuming it's incompatible.

Hi everyone, unfortunately based only on the info i found on the internet i bought a used VCL-EX0877 for my X200 and it doesn't fit the lens! I have also a PMW-200 and a HVR-Z7 and it fits both.

That SUCKS Samer! Try a 16x9 EXII in either 0.75x or 0.8x flavors. Those models are all the same with adaptor rings on the back. Only gripe is they are heavier than the Sony model, but you can find them on eBay from like Adorama used for around $100-150!

And the JVC HM200 is what I consider to be an OPTIMAL ergonomic design. Flip switches, a separate dial for iris, none of that damn button sharing stuff. The issues? Well, 1/2.3" sensor sucks, listed f5.6 sensitivity sucks as well.

Know what really sucks about the HM200? f1.2 at wide, then f3.5 at tele! If that ramps like the X70 does, your looking at a 3 stop (18db!) reduction in light at 6x zoom in! 3 stops!!!!!!!

Paul

Hi everyone, unfortunately based only on the info i found on the internet i bought a used VCL-EX0877 for my X200 and it doesn't fit the lens! I have also a PMW-200 and a HVR-Z7 and it fits both.

Thank you for being the first real account of them not being compatible.

That really stings. Sony has not released their own replacement with the new bayonet mount of the X200. Shame on them. Looks like the only option are 77mm threaded WA adapters.

Hi all, ok so I have had a (ex3 work horse) , also have a PMW200 / X70 and a X160, I think all cameras are good and they have a time and place for each shoot, but if any one wishes to Skype call me one day and talk me through a few settings, re Knee, gamma, slop and so on,,,,, I will be happy to do a few real would tests and post them back here. The zoom on the X160 is worth it, as I try to shoot around f4 most times. But yes my Sony wide and Tele will not fit, :(
*** Chris you seem to know a bit and have a good knowage of what I have read, feel free to drop me a msg.
Rob.

For those interested in lens ramping and maximum available iris, I found the following f-stop chart with 1/3 increments. very handy for figuring out what lens will allow what available light if you have a test clip showing several cameras at the same gain and f-stop.

So in the YouTube video below, you can see the PMW200 is much brighter at 18db gain, but this test is useless, because the X70 is set to f2.8, the PMW200 to f1.9. According to the f-stop chart, if you match the PMW200 to the X70's f2.8, your looking at slightly over 1 stop (6-7db) of sensitivity loss, and add to that the X70 will go UP another 15db! If you factor in that both the 70 and the 200 loose 1 stop at maximum telephoto, they may offer the same low light performance staying in the optical zoom range.

NEED A DIRECT PXW-180/200 vs PXW-X70 LOW LIGHT COMPARO! :(

Low light / gain: Sony PXW-X70 camcorder vs Canon XA20 & XF200, and Sony PMW-200 - YouTube

I have just received an X200 to demo for the week, so message me with what test you'd like versus the X70 (or JVC 650 - also on demo) and I'll see what I can do for you ;)

BTW Rob, the HM650 in standard (not extended) mode is f9/f10@2000 (NTSC/PAL), same as the standard rating for the X180. It might make a decent stand in at f1.6 for the X180, but then again, cameras can all be different to an extent greater than expected.

Paul

Here's an indoor test of the X200 vs X70, I'm loading the outdoor test to one drive for you.
https://youtu.be/M7WzXZFEheU

That's perfect Rob! Gives a bit of a base for comparison. According to the test shots, the X70 matches the X200's maximum 18db of gain at 24db. Roughly a stop and a half more sensitive on the side of the X200. That would make the X70's sensitivity around f8@2000 (PAL), or roughly equivalent to an old 1992 Sony BVW300A Betacam. I am basing that on the Sony X200 listed f13@2000 (PAL) specifications, and an f-stop chart.

This would make the X70 9db faster at f4.0, the aperture you are stuck with from 60% zoom 7x (60%) higher. The X200 can open up to f2.8 at it's maximum zoom, so it gains back an extra 1 stop, 6db. At wide angle, the X200 gains yet another stop (f2.8 to f1.9) , 6db, but the X70 gains a stop f(4.0 to f2.8) going wide as well.

If my brain math is correct, that would put the X200 at a 3db advantage at wide angle, and the X70 at a 3db advantage at telephoto, but that X70 advantage would be nullified as I am sure the X200 ramping would allow a bit bigger than f2.8 around it's 12x mark. For anyone looking at the JVC HM200, it is listed as f5.6 (NTSC), if that is correct, it would be a stop faster (f1.2) than the X70 at wide angle, but two stops (f3.5) slower at the identical 12x. Imagine an X70 limited to 18db gain!

The X70, X180, and X200, all seem to have a 1 stop loss from wide to full telephoto. I was afraid of the limitations of 18db gain on these cameras compared to 33db on the X70, but this makes me feel much more comfortable, the X70 needs that gain just to be able to see in sunlight. :)

It's late at night here in London, so I'll assume your maths is correct ;)
What the X200 also allows is better picture profile tweaking!
I was able to get a fairly accurate vectorscope reading because the X200 allows hue and saturation changes to individual colours as well as the whole image.
I am in the process of producing another Pro's and Con's review of it, and I'll have low light footage compared to the X70 JVC 650 and PMW-400.
It certainly feels like a really solid well built camera, although a bit heavy at 2.87kgs with battery, hood and SXS card...

I found the X70 to be uncorrectable, you could make a color, maybe two, better, but full correction is beyond the scope of the current firmware menu settings. Also, my broadcast engineer tech scoped my X70, and told me my black balance was green. I told him the camera doesn't have a black shading function. He seemed a bit shocked.

I just ordered up 2 32GB SxS-1 cards and a USB 3.0 reader for $600, yikes! So basically, I am pushing myself into an SxS camera by force. Below is the available matrix correction menu items per the X180 manual. Not sure what multi matrix is.....my X70 experience would tend to make me think "hey, you get to adjust a second color along with the first one, that's two colors!" :)

Well, I made up my mind, the X180, 8 0 it is. Didn't want to deal with the grey market x160 horrible eBay seller with 25,000 negative feedback, so getting the X180 from B&H. Am already thinking of ways to utilize the live streaming less than SD feature as well as FTP, since I am paying for them. :-)

I will let anyone interested know if my EXII 0.75x and 0.8x wide adapters work on the X180 without vignetting. If they don;t work, I think I might be OK with the standard 26mm wide angle, as my X70 or the X200 with a 0.8x works out to around 24mm, not too much of a difference.

The AVCHD and non UDF file structure are also a big benefit, and go with the USB 3.0 SxS card reader to allow compatibility when ingesting my footage into other photog's FCPX Macbooks. My SxS reader will work as my SD card reader with an adapter, since my SD card slot in my computer is out of service. Very excited about this package, especially the 25x zoom!

Paul

I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but between the C100 MK II and the PXW-200 for wedding and event work, which one?

Personally, I'd go with the Fujinon lens rather than the G lenses.

At 1/50 shutter, you lose sensitivity compared to having the shutter off at 1080i or 1080p50. I think the test should be re-done at 1080p50 for both cameras to better gauge the native sensitivity. The shutter + 25p skewed the sensitivity results.

Also, If you are REALLY good with your manual focus, the C100 MKII is a great machine combined with something like the Atomos Ninja. Otherwise, if you want less DOF to make focusing easier, the X200 has really good ergonomics.

Jack, whether the frame rate was 25p or 50p, the shutter speed would determine the sensitivity of the sensor. Switching to 25p from 50p while keeping 1/25th for each, would not allow an increase in sensitivity. You probably know that, but I just wanted to clarify it in case anyone read it wrong. Simply looking for comparable sensitivity at identical settings.

Paul

Hi all,

I've been following this discussion and the very few others that have appeared online. In Australia the pxw-x200 with batteries and 2x32 gb cards is over $10,000 so I am very keen to see how the camera performs side by side its predecessor the pmw-200.

We currently shoot with a 5d and nxcam across a range of scenarios for documentaries and really need a reliable camera with manual controls. We can’t pop into a city to try one out as we live in a remote area.

Currently it is cheaper to fly to Japan and pick one up there than buy locally. As a small 2 person family business, the cost is a major decision. We almost bought a pmw-200 second hand but really felt that the x200 might perform well in lower light so the investment would be worth it.

So – thanks for those of you who have already posted footage and are currently assessing the ergonomics and quality of the products.

A side-by-side with pmw-200 or even an ex1/1r would be very interesting to see.I suspect that the 5d III won't be out of a job even if we did get the x200 - but that remaines to be seen.

Thanks heaps to all who have submitted feedback once again

Sony PXW-X200. Two days with it but only a couple of hours available for outdoor shooting as the weather was pretty dismal. On the second day it cleared enough to get a few shots, even a couple with sunshine.

Note: The loan camera used on this test raised some suspicions. Three of us felt the lens was softer on the left side of the image as opposed to the right. Hard to pin down as this softening only seemed to appear at certain focal lengths and apertures. Put it this way it was enough for me to ask Lemac the rental house to get the camera checked out in their workshop on its return. I await the results of their investigations

First a few quick observations:

Fan came on after 45min in a 21C degree air-con office and stayed on. There is a menu option to have this turn of whilst actually recording.

Left eyed cameramen. Yes there are some of us. Going back to most ENG cameras and even going back to the Z1 days left eyed shooters were able to flip the viewfinder eye piece rubber through 180 degrees right to left so that the extended piece of rubber goes around the left side of the face rather than buckling over the bridge of the nose. You can’t do this with the X200 due to the fact that there is a window designed into to bottom of the rubber eyepiece through which the eyepiece dioptre adjuster button protrudes. If you flip the rubber 180 degrees this window is now on top of the eyepiece and you can’t reach the dioptre adjuster underneath because there is no widow in the rubber. Grr! Very annoying for left eyed shooters.

1080 50p is only available as XAVC-L in bit rates of 35 & 50-mbit. 1080 25p is available as I-frame. 720 50p is available as I-frame. Thought 1080 50p would be available at the higher Intra bit rate.

One very annoying thing I took an instant dislike to? The external power socket is INSIDE the battery cavity. No after market batteries for this cam by the looks of it.

Basically I found the camera very familiar to work with and I think anyone who has used any of the EX1-EX1R-PDW-200 family would feel at home pretty quickly. The new 17 x Fujinon is very much as one would expect from a manual operational point of view. It has mechanically linked focus, zoom and iris rings when used in full manual mode. Something I think a lot of us like and will use.

Now for the images through this looking glass so to speak. I guess we are all getting spoiled by the 4k super sampled video we are seeing more of these days because as good as the pictures are out of this lens it doesn’t seem to have that biting sharpness that we are seeing out of even the much cheaper semi - professional and domestic 4K cams. Not saying that absolute sharpness is wanted or desirable in every case, far from it quite often. The lens is a fairly large piece glass all up and makes the camera well and truly nose heavy. Not something I would want twisting the camera downwards on my wrist all day long for handheld shoots. Another thing to be wary of is the attitude of this camera when it is being carried by the handle. Because of all the heavy glass up front it tends to point lens down at quite an angle when being carried. If you are not conscious of it the rear viewfinder eyepiece can easily point up towards the sky, especially if it’s already been tilted up from its normal position. I’ve now seen enough burnt EX and Canon XF viewfinders to be constantly aware of this risk. Even seen an expensive PDW-F800 color viewfinder burnt through sunlight... that was expensive VF to fix! I seem to recall Canon even went as far as to introduce a viewfinder protector cap for the XF300 series to protect those cameras from sun burns.

Working with this camera outdoors brought back many memories of working with EX’s. The zoom demand is great to work with in handheld mode and is smooth and easily controlled. On a tripod though? It’s a different question, it’s back to the up-n-under right hand to access the zoom demand because trying to access it with the left hand is nigh on impossible due to its position being fairly well forward and awkward to reach. For me a rear servo zoom demand is a must for this camera as it was for me when using the earlier EX’s. Using one of Varizoom’s adapter cables with a broadcast zoom demand worked well.

Focusing... frustrating outdoors. Even with the viewfinder dioptre focused accurately, with the viewfinder text focused nice and sharp I had problems. No matter what I tried the actual camera image never looked quite sharp enough for me to be 100% confident that I had nailed it. I reiterate, the viewfinder screen text was fine, focussed and sharp but the actual camera image wasn’t anything to write home about. Indoors the flip screen was pretty decent to focus with, especially when using the option of colored peaking if needed. Working outdoors with the flip screen it’s a bit of a battle in bright sunlight to my way of thinking. Putting the Alphatron on the X200 on my return made me realise for the thousandth time that a camera op lives and dies by what decisions he makes in the viewfinder. To be honest and maybe it seems incredible to suggest the following but I found both the viewfinder and flip screen on the X70 to be easier to focus with than those on the x200. Probably due to the fact that the resolution on both the viewfinder and flip screen of the x70 run out at approx three times the resolution of the X200 going by the published specs on the two cameras respective brochures. That is of course assuming that Sony ‘pixels’ and ‘dots’ are considered one and the same thing resolution wise. Add to which the X70 rear viewfinder is an OLED as opposed to the LCD on the X200. Which for me begs the question why can’t this new camera utilise the same technology that’s being used on it’s much smaller cheaper little cousin.

X200 = 0.45-inch type color LCD: 852 (H) x 480 (V), 16:9 = 408,960 pixels
X200 LCD screen = 3.5-inch type color LCD monitor: 960 (H) x 3 (RGB) x 540 (V), 16:9 = 518,400 pixels

X70 viewfinder = 1.0 cm (0.39 type) OLED Approx. 1.44M dots
X70 LCD Screen = 8.8 cm (3.5 type) Approx. 1.56M dots.

So I found focusing easier on the X70 in spite of the X70’s unconventional focusing modes. Strange but true. Not something I expected at all.

Overall the X200 is well built and pretty solid and follows on from what we have come to expect from the Sony EX / PXW family of camcorders. All the switch positions were pretty intuitive and easily accessible so I was more than happy with the overall layout of the camera.

If you want to shoot XAVC 422 10-bit with the X200 you have to use the SxS Pro and Pro+ series cards or the XQD cards. I did note though that Sony warns that high-speed playback may not be properly achieved the XQD cards. Sony also state that S&Q (Slow & quick Motion) recording cannot be made with an XQD card. No simultaneous dual card record capability on these cameras is available at this point which is a shame these days. A future firmware upgrade maybe? I doubt it somehow as I think we would already have seen this capability appear on the previous EX series with the lower data rates if it were possible. So to get the benefit of the XAVC recordings you are currently looking at anything from $800 to $1,160 for the 64 and 128GB SxS cards or around the $100 to $800 mark in XQD cards depending on speed and capacity.

Anyhow this is not a road test as such it’s just my fist observations on the camera and for me this always raises the questions of cost of ownership for media, batteries etc hence I checked out the media pricing.

If anyone is interested I have uploaded a few shots taken at my local marina. These were all shot in XAVC-L 50 50p (422 10-bit.) I shot in Long-GOP 1080 as it’s the only choice for 50p at 1080 on the x200 and I know 50p is becoming more and more popular amongst a lot of shooters. Again it was very windy at the marina with sharp gusts at times so when you see quivering images at times it’s all down to the wind buffeting on the sticks. I should have used a 100mm set of sticks but being a bit lazy I used a 75mm Miller Solo set thinking I would be okay. Should have gone back to the vehicle as there was a 100mm set of Vinten legs in the back.

Marina footage:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/k5fjgo

I’ve also uploaded the 200’s ‘Operating Instructions’ PDF for those who wish to check it out:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/zqkco9

There is a second clip. As there has been a bit of discussion about the sensitivity and noise levels of these later three ½” sensor cams against cameras such as the 1” sensor X70 I thought I would run a quick and dirty if not very scientific comparison between the two cameras. Sorry the shot framings aren’t the same but the two sessions were shot on two different nights. To compare the two camera’s gain levels I just made sure that the gain settings comparison was done using the waveform monitor when the two clips were on the timeline in the NLE. If you throw this edited clip on a time line and scan over the split screen shots you will very similar luminance levels from both cameras displayed on your waveform. Both cameras were at their default black level settings to make it a reasonably fair comparison. Both the marina footage and this ‘gain’ file were rendered out of Handbrake at 10,000 kbps with absolutely no filters applied from their respective XAVC-Intra 50p 200-mbit files that were produced from the Vegas timeline.

Total illumination on the area in question for the gain up shots is 5 x 35watt tungsten down lights of which primarily only four come into play in these clips. I was surprised at a couple of the things I observed comparing these two cameras. I will just state that the focusing in both cases was on the front control panel knobs of the Bar-B-Cue unit. Make of it what you will. I will leave it up to you inquisitive guys to come up with your own conclusions and opinions:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/nbitjt

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

That's an amazingly thorough first thoughts reply post!

You now have me worried about what format I will be able to shot on my X180, as I bought a few 32GB SxS-1 cards off eBay, and was already disappointed to discover I cannot record AVCHD on them! It would now seem I cannot record XAVC Intra on them either, and as I cannot ingest XAVC-L, looks like I will be stuck using XDCAM MPEG2.

When my X180 arrives, I will do a matching X70 vs X180 DSC white chart sensitivity test at f4.0.

Paul

Great to have such well rounded thoughts. Really worth a trip to the city to try before we buy I think!

The X180 just arrived. My EXII 0.8x fits without issue, no vignetting, no noticeable CA. Tried the 0.75x, not as good, a bit soft, some CA, and apparent vignetting.

Also, the X180 is at 18db wide open what the X70 is at 30db wide open. That extra 3db (33db setting) is not very wonderful on the X70, it changes the contrast and picture quality takes a noticeable hit over 30db.

X180 lens ramps to f2.4 at 60-65% zoom range. :-)

Paul

I noticed menu lag and crash zoom lag when I had a quick look at one. I'll be keen to hear your thoughts on it Paul...
Is a shame I didn't get one to test against the X200...

So far, apart from the absolutely $5 Chinese Gi Joe toy build and feel, I am overly happy with the X180. Updating to v2.00 f/w as we speak. Going to give the LIVE STREAM function a workout. My station has a Teradek (not the Zixi) receiver we use for the JVC HM650, and it should work with the Sony as well.

Paul

Here is my new baby ready for battle. EXII 0.8x converter and Neewer CN304 3200k LED mounted on the back of the handle, balances out perfectly. The tripod adaptor on the bottom allows me to swap this camera onto any standard VCT14 style plate, very convenient. The thing must weigh close to 10lbs now......I need to work my arms out, or I won't be able to operate this camera very long! Good news is, the tripod adaptor makes a handy hand hold with the back of the camera braced against my shoulder, something I could not do with the X70, so it really isn't that horrible.

Also found that I can live stream 1280x720 3Mbps, and that Watson BP-U30 batteries DO NOT display in the viewfinder of this camera, have no idea my time remaining till empty. :(

Looks good!
I hope to get a X180 for demo later this week, sadly I have to return the X200 so I won't get to compare them side-by-side.
I'll have an X200 Pros/Cons review up at the end of this week coming.

Well, first major issue with the new camera, WiFi isn't working properly. It shuts itself on and off every 2-3 minutes, the WiFi from the camera vanishes, goes off the air, then pops back up on a WiFi signal meter.

My station has a buttload of Verizon 4G LTE modems (the model Sony recommends), so I will try plugging one of those in and report back on how the 1280x720 live streaming functions, assuming this camera will transmit to a Teradek.

Paul

New firmware update for PXW-X200:

Upgrade is free and will be available Spring 2015
New Features & Improvements:
● Streaming via wired/wireless LAN or 3G/4G mobile network is activated.
● MI Shoe is activated to support the HVL-LBPC battery video light and UWP-D11/D12 wireless microphone system.
● GPS data can be recorded as metadata in XAVC-I and XAVC-L format.
● Simultaneous Recording feature is activated. Camcorder can record simultaneously on two media, for example creating one version for editing and one for archiving at the same time to enhance workflow.

MI Shoe and Simultaneous recording is something i'l be using often!

Sony PXW-X200.

If you want to shoot XAVC 422 10-bit with the X200 you have to use the SxS Pro and Pro+ series cards or the XQD cards.

I used it with SXS-1 with no problem at all.

Aside from the wifi and other doodads, would any users familiar with the pmw200 and pxwx200 like to comment on the quality of the footage when working in a comparable zoom range?

Are the 1/2" sensors significantly improved etc... We are looking for a camera with 3 rings for manual controls and by all accounts the mechanical nature of the lens on both of these cameras is nicer than the x160 / x180 so i am trying to determine if i would be better of chasing a 'newish' pmw 200 as their prices are lower than their replacement.

I used it with SXS-1 with no problem at all.

My apologies Samer. That's very good news then because I only had the Pro + supplied with the camera for the trial and was led to believe by the supplier that for XAVC-I the Pro cards were required. I now believe this only applies to some of the 4K cameras such as the F5 and 55 using the higher bit rates. Also good news to hear that simultaneous recording is coming with the next firmware upgrade.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Aside from the wifi and other doodads, would any users familiar with the pmw200 and pxwx200 like to comment on the quality of the footage when working in a comparable zoom range?

Are the 1/2" sensors significantly improved etc... We are looking for a camera with 3 rings for manual controls and by all accounts the mechanical nature of the lens on both of these cameras is nicer than the x160 / x180 so i am trying to determine if i would be better of chasing a 'newish' pmw 200 as their prices are lower than their replacement.

If you don't see any advantage in Xavc vs xdcam HD 50mbs (I personally don't!) and 17x vs 14x zoom range (in this case i do) then i would pick a good used PMW-200!
I personally own and use both PMW-200 and PXW-X200 and don't see any difference in picture quality!
I've decided to pick the newer X200 rather than buy a second used PMW-200 only for the fact that i still use IMX 50 for broadcast tv that still use sd and don't want hd, and the PMW-200 have only dvcam not IMX 50.Another advantage was the new lens! which is a nice thing to have rather than a 14x.
I also mentioned in another post that the viewfinder is unusable but now i take that back! after tweaking it a little bit here and there now it's definitely better.
Christopher Young,no need to apologize at all! :-)
Do you guys have your own "best" or preferred sunhood for the the PMW-200/X200's lcd!?
I have one but can't say i'm totally satisfied!
Thanks

Thank you Samer,

That is a very useful bit of information which will help me with realy help with our planning and budget!

I can understand grading pro's getting value out of the increased bit depth but most of our projects are very low budget with only the odd job getting professional grading time.

Uh-oh, my eyeballs wearing contacts cannot focus on the LCD panel with the X180 pressed against (not on top) of my shoulder. The viewfinder is not sharp or large enough to hold the camera out at a distance of another 6 inches, and the weight of the camera is too heavy, so this presents a problem for me. I can only manually focus using the EVF, but this means holding the camera's weight out in front of my face, and the SteadyShot, On or Active, is not capable of eliminating shivering in this way. All of my footage appears as if someone is trying to use a screwdriver to remove screws from the unit while I shoot. :(

Obviously this is an issue with my eyeballs, not with the camera. The other painful reality is that the WiFi function is broken, the WiFi module goes on and off, cannot maintain a connection. Not the connection, but it actually drops on and off the air from my WiFi sniffer. I tried a new Verizon 4G XLTE modem, but it gives the red X, so have not been able to try the $1500 extra live streaming function yet. Will try the actual Verizon modem specified in the manual tonight and report back. If that doesn't work, then that is enough reason for me to return this camera.

I am saddened by the fact that this really is the best camera for this task, but my eyeballs and the faulty networking have killed the concept for me at this time. Crossing fingers that I can make this work. I miss shooting on my X70.

Paul

One low-cost solution regarding your eyeball problems is to have a medium-sized Full HD 7-8" tablet mounted somewhere on your camera at an angle or distance where you can better see what's on the screen. It won't be a replacement for your viewing but a supplementary one. My tablet of choice when I use it to view and control (some of the key functions such as zooming, recording/stopping) my AX100 is the Nexus 7. It's has an excellent display, lightweight, compact, cheap and best of all an NFC to let you bypass most of the Wi-Fi connection procedures that otherwise are required for NFC-less devices. I guess the android Sony Playmemories Mobile should work with your camera. Cell phone or small tablet pivotable mounts are easy to find these days you can find one to fit your camera.

I do have a nexus 7, but unfortunately, I need a semi compact fast action run and gun ENG rig. Even a diopter attached to the LCD would not work, if that were the setup I need, I would simply get an HPX600. :-)

And the WiFi module itself may be my problem, I believe it is broken. I can connect to Play Memories with NFC, but the actual WiFi signal transmitting from the adaptor cuts on and off. Not simply a disconnect, but the actual broadcasted WiFi turns off, as can be observed by a WiFi sweeper app. I hope I can swap out the module with B&H for testing rather than shipping the entire camera back for that problem. No one will buy my X180 used with a faulty WiFi feature.

Paul

Just did a quick side by side of my X180 (18db) vs my X70 (33db), both wide open iris, and maximum gain at 1/30 and 1/60. The X70 is a full stop FASTER in low light than the X180. The X180 stops at 18db.....why is that? More gain please Sony.

Paul