XAVC-L codec news straight from the top at Sony (SCS) today. Sorry can't divulge sources at this point.

"Hi Chris;

We’re in the process of finishing the work on VP13 XAVC L support and the plan is to have that out before the end of the month."

So finally it looks like the wait will be over!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Good news. I was beginning to worry. Catalyst Browse is a nice tool but native is much preferred.

j

Finally!!!! Thanks for the info Chris.

The end of which month, November, ha ha.

I understand your cynicism Mike :)) Justly founded. My source at Sony... right at the top, has not let me down yet so fingers crossed. He says THIS month...

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

what does your guy say about vegas Mac version

I understand your cynicism Mike :)) Justly founded. My source at Sony... right at the top, has not let me down yet so fingers crossed. He says THIS month...

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

That's awesome, thanks for the update!

I will check what is happening re FCPX handling XAVC and report back. Also he has just emailed me saying that the new Catalyst products will now also be able to export MXF 422 50-mbit. His exact words:

"Other news that will hopefully cheer you up is that you’ll soon see XDCAM 50MB422 support in the Catalyst Products."

Bring it on down I say!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

what does your guy say about vegas Mac version

Right the news on the mac version is not so clear. Because of conflicts of interest as both Sony and Apple produce NLE software the news is a bit more shrouded. To the best of my source's knowledge this work along with some other development stuff is being done in Japan where Sony and Apple have an ongoing development relationship. It's totally separate to Sony 'SCS' development in the States. I guess it depends on just how much of a priority Sony / Apple see in this codec update.

As I have said before the fact that Mainconcept's TotalCode has been able to decode this XAVC-L codec since May last year makes me wonder why everyone else is so far behind... apart from the latest Prem Pro CC and Edius. Plus it can transcode to almost any codec you may desire. This is what I have been using since Oct '14.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

There is a NEW version of Catalyst Browse released as of March 5th. I will download it now and check on Mac and PC as to whether or not the batch import levels issue was corrected and report back. :)

Paul

Way to go Sony, I report an issue 3 months ago, you reply back a month later that your engineers have been sent a notice on it, then you release an UPDATE a few days ago that does NOT resolve the issue.

Catalyst Browse still (March 5 release) has the levels issue when batch transcoding.

Paul

Checking in close to month end, any further news on this?

Was thinking exactly the same only just this morning Mike. Along with some funding on a video project also due end of the month... that's another story though! Look I will drop the man an email to see what the situation is. Wonder if they want to announce it at NAB? Soon as I hear anything I will post.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Mike ~
Just heard back by mail. Here is the exact body of text from our contact.

"Hi Chris

Yes, we are preparing the release now. It will be delivered before we go to NAB. Waiting for it to pass the QA process for an exact date.

Best

xxxxx."

So not long now thank goodness. I guess it will be a new Vegas 13 build so all registered users should get notification between now and the 11th I guess. NAB officially opens 12th from memory but a lot of upcoming NAB press release stuff will be announced on the 11th.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Just in time for me to stop using the camera I bought for that codec that I never got the chance to ingest! Good work Sony. :-)

At least my new camera shoots XAVC Intra, which my old Vegas 12 WILL ingest.

Paul

Just in time for me to stop using the camera I bought for that codec that I never got the chance to ingest! Good work Sony. :-)

At least my new camera shoots XAVC Intra, which my old Vegas 12 WILL ingest.

Paul

yeah I am with Paul here. I had the feeling that the xavc-l was a bluff right from the start, and now I have this other feeling that it will never work , not with vegas and not with FCP.. and I also remember that when I said that I wasn't even sure that the xavc-l was real .. well... looks like it's not (real). the mystery of this X70... never had the pleasure to see 4:2:2 50mbps (for real). it DOES look exactly like the "regular" avchd . so be it.

Hey guys sony updated Vegas to build 444. Xavc-L works perfectly finally! Now I can use my fs7 the way I've wanted To since purchasing it. Enjoy

So did you test ingesting XAVC-L on the new VP13 timeline? Asking cause the Readme only mentions added render-out template for this format...

OK - just loaded a HD XAVC-L clip off the X70 without probs. Has anyone tried a 4k XAVC-L version?

Yes both HD and 4k xavc-L I placed on the timeline. Works. HD is very smooth no problems. 4k is too processor heavy for my current setup. I was getting 2fps playback 4k in the draft preview. Need to upgrade my PC :/

There is a new (March 24th) CatBrowse now.....maybe they fixed the batch transcode levels issue.

Paul

Well it's here everyone, or so we hoped. Vegas 13 XAVC-L support for the X-70 and other XAVC-L cameras. Vegas 13 build 444 can be downloaded here:

Sony Creative Software - Download: Vegas Pro 13 (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/updates/vegaspro)

I am having an issue with it right now as I have just tested it with various XAVC-L 50-mbit 50P files.

It WILL IMPORT XAVC-L files from the Sony PXW-X200 but IT WILL NOT IMPORT XAVC-L files from the PXW-X70. At least that's my experience today. If anyone else can confirm this ASAP I would love to here back. I have contacted Sony SCS and have sent them files and media file breakdowns on the differences in the file structures of the two cameras in question. I've only just done this so no response as yet.

The ONLY difference I can in the file structures between the two XAVC-L 422 50-mbit 50P files from the two different cameras is in the file 'Transfer characteristic' readouts. See below:

Sony PXW-X200

Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Sony PXW-X70

Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : IEC 61966-2-4 ?????? What's with this?
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Why the difference in the PXW-X70 having IEC 61966-2-4 characteristics as opposed to the PXW-200 and the other XAVC-L cameras which all show BT.709 as the transfer characteristic?

Either Vegas needs more work on this XAVC-L codec to bring the X70 into the fold or the X-70 needs a firmware upgrade to bring it in line with the other XAVC-L cameras that all show BT.709 as their 'Transfer characteristic' as opposed to this IEC 61966-2-4 that shows up on the X-70.

If I hear anything I will update the post.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

I wonder if that transfer thing is why there are incorrect levels when bulk transcoding X70 footage through ConBrowse.

Paul

The ONLY difference I can in the file structures between the two XAVC-L 422 50-mbit 50P files from the two different cameras is in the file 'Transfer characteristic' readouts. See below:

Sony PXW-X200

Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Sony PXW-X70

Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : IEC 61966-2-4 ?????? What's with this?
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

IEC 61966-2-4 describes xvYCC (extended gamut YCC). Is this something to do with bit-depth? The X70 footage should be 10-bit. But I see the PXW-X200's specs also say it's 10-bit. Or did you mean to mention the older PMW-X200 version? I can't see specs on that, but perhaps that is 8-bit?

This will make the post longish but here are the file specs in full and yes you read correctly when I said PXW-X200. The interesting thing is the Codec IDs are exactly the same so by rights I should be able to import the X70 files. As I say no problems with the X200. Its XAVC-L files come in no problem??? both camera files show bit depth as 10-bit which is correct. Will try 1080i and 720p just to check!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

PXW-X200

General
Format : MXF
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 92.5 MiB
Duration : 13s 800ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 56.2 Mbps
Encoded date : 2015-03-22 15:41:05.000
Writing application : Sony Mem 2.00
Writing library : Sony Mem 2.00

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame
Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201316001
Duration : 13s 800ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 51.6 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 50.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.498
Stream size : 84.9 MiB (92%)
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 13s 800ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.90 MiB (2%)

Audio #2
ID : 4
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 13s 800ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.90 MiB (2%)

Audio #3
ID : 5
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 13s 800ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.90 MiB (2%)

Audio #4
ID : 6
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 13s 800ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.90 MiB (2%)

Other #1
ID : 1
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Time code of first frame : 00:17:08:30
Time code settings : Striped

Other #2
ID : 7
Format : Acquisition Metadata
Muxing mode : Ancillary data / RDD 18
Duration : 13s 800ms
Frame rate : 50.000 fps

Other #3
Type : Time code
Format : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode : SDTI
Time code of first frame : 00:17:08:15

=================

PXW-X70

General
Format : MXF
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 92.6 MiB
Duration : 14s 880ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 52.2 Mbps
Encoded date : 2014-10-19 04:44:14.000
Writing application : Sony Mem 2.00
Writing library : Sony Mem 2.00

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame
Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201316001
Duration : 14s 880ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 47.6 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 50.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.459
Stream size : 84.4 MiB (91%)
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : IEC 61966-2-4
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 14s 880ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 2.04 MiB (2%)

Audio #2
ID : 4
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 14s 880ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 2.04 MiB (2%)

Audio #3
ID : 5
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 14s 880ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 2.04 MiB (2%)

Audio #4
ID : 6
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 14s 880ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 2.04 MiB (2%)

Other #1
ID : 1
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Time code of first frame : 00:07:17:14
Time code settings : Striped

Other #2
ID : 7
Format : Acquisition Metadata
Muxing mode : Ancillary data / RDD 18
Duration : 14s 880ms
Frame rate : 50.000 fps

Other #3
Type : Time code
Format : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode : SDTI
Time code of first frame : 00:07:17:07

Figures that I'd be away having to shoot AVCHD when this came out.
Got to wrap a large project so not even going to be able to test this for awhile.

This will make the post longish...

In comparing the two blocks of text you posted, I found one other change in the 'Video' section:

The PXW-X200 has an entry of 'Standard : Component'. But the X70 doesn't have that.

VP13 444 and the xavc-l of the x70 is still a mystery. I see that Piotr was able to put the mxf into the timeline? how? the only way I see that happening would be to pre-transcode with catalyst because it doesn't work straight from the camera in my world. guys I don't know but I'm about to give up on the mystery of the so-called 50mbps 422 of the X70 now.....

Same issue here. v13 (444) will not load -L files from my x70. they show up in the explorer, but will not move to the timeline. Some on the Vegas site say it works for them. Vegas does now say it will render to-L but that's not much help.

j

Ricky, John ~

Yes Ricky I see what you mean. What that means I'm not sure.

I have got back to Sony SCS and uploaded clips from both the PXW-X200 and the X70 for them and they think they have detected something and reported back that they are looking into the issue. Asked me for the firmware version of the camera in question and exactly what settings were used and how the file import was attempted etc. Just wait and see I guess :(

John. Not good news for you but at least your post lends some credence to my claims to SCS that the import of the X70 XAVC-L files is at this point broken not just for me but that there are others experiencing the same problem... sad to say.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Yes both HD and 4k xavc-L I placed on the timeline. Works. HD is very smooth no problems. 4k is too processor heavy for my current setup. I was getting 2fps playback 4k in the draft preview. Need to upgrade my PC :/

Good to hear. Monday I reported your success back to SCS so they are now aware that it's not all XAVC-L cameras that are having these import issues with the files not being recognized. At the present time it appears to be the X70 only that's run aground with this issue.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Christopher, Priotr from this forum also experienced poor preview playback with xavc-L 4k. Here's a link to a clip.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9fh938rikhkghg/0339.MXF?dl=0

Are you seeing the same poor performance? Is this an issue as well with fs7 4k xavc-L?

Well I just downloaded this clip and it appears to be 100-mbit 8-bit 4:2:0 Intra frame. Interestingly it also displays the Transfer characteristic as IEC 61966-2-4 like the X70. It also shows a different codec ID. Playback wise? V13 build 444 opens it no problem but struggling to get better than 3-5 fps playback? Plays back in MPHC build 178 64-bit no problems whatsoever at the full 24p with only about 2% GPU load. In Vegas though... I couldn't work with it that's for sure.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

I agree completely about the Vegas payback problems, but why do you say it's intraframe? Catalyst Browse reports it as AVC Long...

Sorry Piotr. You are right it is Long GOP with a GOP structure of M=3, N=6 whereas if it were I-Frame it should read N=1. I had a number of info files open at the time trying to compare the inner workings of these various codecs and one of the m was from an F55 I-Frame clip. In my haste I have obviously looked at the wrong file info list... Doh!

Still wonder why the playback is so screwed. I guess it's going to take a lot more CPU power in my case, meaning a new powerhouse PC. It's either that or work in proxy mode then render out in full res.

All very interesting but frustrating!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Still wonder why the playback is so screwed. I guess it's going to take a lot more CPU power in my case, meaning a new powerhouse PC.

Yeah... Interesting enough - while we're at CPU power - is that at VP 13 444 playback, the CPU is only loaded up to some 40%, and GPU - even less (apart perhaps from Best/Full mode, which is useless anyway). This clearly shows how inefficient SCS's implementation of the codec is - plenty of room for optimization. When (if?) it's ever done by Sony, it might turn out that our CPUs are up to the task, after all (as I said in another post, other 4k clips - the XAVC-S in particular, and those are also just 8 bit, 420 - my current PC can play full fps at Full/Best)...

Piotr

Chris,
Looking at the news from NAB it appears that Sony plans to replace Vegas with Catalyst when all the features get added much like final cut X. Do you have any insight on this?

Jay ~

Seriously I can't say too much. My contact is out of the office because he is at NAB. I will quiz him some more on his return. The last I heard from him was just prior to NAB and he said "Appreciate it if this were kept confidential for now." This relates to a number of things so all I can say is that there is movement at the station. Sorry I can't be more helpful but as soon as I hear anything and am able to talk about it I will post.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Jay,they aren't replacing Vegas at all,talked to guy at nab for awhile,it's a very easy program for quick edits to convert,export

I'm having no luck using Sony X-70 files in the latest Vegas (444). I see them in Vegas explorer but cannot bring them to the timeline. I shot in XAVC-L 1080 60p. As a workaround I'm using Catalyst Browse to convert them from XAVC to XAVC which not only takes forever and doubles the files size but the clips have raised black levels when brought into Vegas.

Come on Sony... this is your own codec and other software programs are already working with it.

Marc, the levels issue is one that presents itself only under BATCH transcode method. If you do one clip at a time, the levels will be the same as the original clip. :-)

PITA Sony!

Paul

Thanks for the info Paul. I ended up downloading the trial version of Catalyst Prepare which does not suffer from the levels issue when batch transcoding. Hopefully Sony will solve this issue soon.

I just had a chat with Sony Tech Support concerning the ongoing compatibility issues with Sony X70 and Vegas. They told me it's high priority but could not give me a fix date.

They suggested I use Catalyst Browse. I explained to them that Browse screws up the black levels on clips when batch converting. They did not know this but confirmed it once I sent them images.

Next they suggested I convert each clip one at a time to solve this issue since they have no idea when this will be fixed. I explained this is not practical and suggested they give me a copy of Catalyst Prepare which does not screw up levels until this is fixed. They declined.

So let me get this straight... I bought a Sony Camera and use Sony Editing Software but I have to either buy another Sony product I do not need as a workaround or switch to programs like Adobe CC, Edius etc. that actually work with files created by SONY?

I'm really disappointed with this company. They do not back up their products.

INext they suggested I convert each clip one at a time to solve this issue since they have no idea when this will be fixed. I explained this is not practical and suggested they give me a copy of Catalyst Prepare which does not screw up levels until this is fixed. They declined.

For me (Catalyst Browse on a Mac and working with XAVC-L from a PXW-X70), I get the levels issue no matter how I import (batch vs individual).

This weekend I ran through every permutation of imports using Browse, Prepare (trial) and EditReady (trial). Both Prepare and EditReady didn't have any levels issue.

As a software engineer, I can only guess at how messed up Sony's code base is. Both Browse and Prepare should share the same exact code base for features included in both (e.g. transcoding).

The tech person told me they added batch transcoding to Browse as a bandaid until XAVC-L support was added to other programs. Based on the history of Sony Vegas support and long lingering bugs I won't be holding my breath for a fix.