After a long thought out process and looking at what is out in the world of Video Camcorders. I will sale my EA for Canon C100. Do I have any opposition? If so what is your thoughts?

Hi Aaron

A camera is a personal choice .. The C100 body only here is $2K more than an EA-50 and it's a cinema camera ... I would assume that this choice is based more on the fact that you have a pile of good Canon glass at your disposal so that would make sense. I certainly wouldn't buy one as I have Nikon lenses and the C100 form factor for doing handheld shots is really terrible .. An FS100 is far better but then you need Sony lenses don't you

I think you will cry when you have to go back to a crappy little 0.24" EVF (the LCD is external so useless in daylight) We really are spoilt with the huge EVF that the EA-50 has (so does the FS100 and 700)

You could get a Sony FS700 body for the same price too so the only reason I would go for a C100 would be if I had a whole case full of quality Canon lenses. You can get an FS100 for half the price of a C100 as it has variable frame rates too!!

Why don't YOU tell us why you have decided to change to Canon??? I am sure it's the lenses issue!

Chris

C100 has no 50p - that seals it's fate for me

https://www.facebook.com/philipbloomfilms/posts/10150988387580426

Pete

+1 for the sony fs100 , it's selling very cheap now (half the price of a c100), IQ wise it would be a upgrade compared to the nex-ea50 and you can continue to use your Sony lenses.

With an adaptor you can also use Canon lenses of course if the issue is the Canon lens side. Yeah, I forgot about the lack of 50P .... the C100 still shoots AVCHD at a max or 24 mbps so it has nothing special on the file format side either.

Well here in the states the C100 is trending around 3K - 3.5K.

Canon C100 Mint Condition with Only 93 Hours on It 013803147926 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-C100-MINT-CONDITION-with-only-93-hours-on-it-/141575162528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f6898aa0)

I'm ready to stop using adapters and I want better glass than the Sony glass. I do have a good selection of Canon glass between mine and my wife's Canon glass. Looking at the form factor the FS series are not actual shoulder cams like the C100. The C100 can go on a rig just like the FS cams. To be honest the adapter situation is getting to me a bit. I have not been recording anything lately because this is our slow season for weddings but we are about to jump right into our busy part of the year and the first thing that is on my mind are those damn adapters. I love my EA but I want to get away from adapters.

The FS700 would be awesome with all the features, bells, and whistles but I will still be at the mercy of adapters. To be honest I'm not 100% sold on the C100 but I am learning that way and I will be making a choice here by the end of the month and pulling the trigger. the C100 at 3.25K is in my price range. I will sell my EA for 2K here in the states and will add a grand to that to get what I think is an upgrade.

Hi Aaron

Where is the C100 a shoulder mount camera??? It's a cinema camera and to hand hold that it will have to go on a rig. Sounds like you are pretty much sold on the C100 so if that's what you want ..grab it!!

I certainly wouldn't buy one cos I don't have Canon glass and Canon glass is pricey ..plus the EVF really sucks on the C100 if I hand hold which I do a lot!! and really with no 60P ???? what were they thinking???

Nice if you can get $2K for your Sony though!

I think I will rent one first and check it out to see how I like it and then go from there. The FS700 is about 4.5K here in the states. Maybe I will like it enough where the adapters dont bother me as much. I think i need to get a hands on look at them both and then go from there. I will try and keep this thread updated as I go.

After comparing the specs I'm going to go for the FS700. Hands Down!! I would rather have the FS700 and have the resale value instead of the limited features of the C100. Wow, I did not realize that he FS700 was so advanced. Thanks for all the advice. I Love this forum!

Hi Aaron

You get so used to using lenses in manual it just becomes second nature! With focus peaking it makes life really easy. I really admit that Sony don't have a decent range of lenses, especially fast ones!! See if you can get an FS700 body only .... However bear also in mind that Sony have the FS100 on a ridiculous special at the moment and you could probably get two FS100's for the same price as an FS700 but AFAIK on the new FS700 will be a 4K machine .... You will still need a mini rig for shoulder mount shooting but as it needs is a rail with a shoulder pad on the end ... the rest works very well as it is!

I think the FS700 is a great choice right now. I just bought one and have loved it so far (upgrading from Canon 5DmkIII's). I use Canon lenses on it with a Metabones adapter and it's no different than using them on my Canon DSLR's in movie mode.

Some reviews here: Review of Sony FS700! Both parts now live!! | Philip Bloom (http://philipbloom.net/2012/05/25/240brighton/)

Hey Arron,

If I remember correctly didn't you sell your kit lens? I thought you did because I suggested you keep it?

A new EA50 is $2,600.00 after rebate with a lens. I think $2,000.00 for a used EA50 body only might be optimistic???

Camera ergonomics are a big priority to me. Personally I don't like rigs. After shooting with an EA50 I wonder how much you will enjoy adapting any other camera to your run and gun shooting.

Steve

Hi Steve

I guess if Aaron has limited his activities to non run 'n gun and is shooting from a tripod it doesn't really matter! My mate has an FS100 and with a small prime up front you can actually hand hold the camera with the grip and strap but put on a decent and practical lens and do run 'n gun and you definitely need a decent rig and like you I find them a pain and love the EA-50 form factor!

If I wanted to get a camera with a bigger sensor I think the FS100 would be good enough ..then again if you need a lot of super slomo the 700 is a better camera by far!

The EA50 is STILL and awesome camera with the right glass and I have no intention at this stage of changing mine ... I do weddings using just the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 lenses and my video light stays in the box.

I don't want to sway Aaron's thinking but for me TWO EA-50's with nice lenses for me is a better setup than having just one FS700 .... one could get a nice second cam and a couple of new lenses for the difference!

Chris

I think the FS700 is a great choice right now. I just bought one and have loved it so far (upgrading from Canon 5DmkIII's). I use Canon lenses on it with a Metabones adapter and it's no different than using them on my Canon DSLR's in movie mode.

That sounds really good, I have not tried the Metabones as of yet but I look for forward to getting around to it. Just so that I can see for myself.

Hi Aaron

You get so used to using lenses in manual it just becomes second nature! With focus peaking it makes life really easy. I really admit that Sony don't have a decent range of lenses, especially fast ones!! See if you can get an FS700 body only .... However bear also in mind that Sony have the FS100 on a ridiculous special at the moment and you could probably get two FS100's for the same price as an FS700 but AFAIK on the new FS700 will be a 4K machine .... You will still need a mini rig for shoulder mount shooting but as it needs is a rail with a shoulder pad on the end ... the rest works very well as it is!

I was looking at the FS100's as well. The 4K, Slow Motion, and the ND Filters was speaking loud to me when i looked at the FS700. Who knows... It all depends on the availability of the FS700 at the price range I'm willing to pay when I'm ready to pull the trigger. Last week the FS700 was selling as low as 4.5K but as of today it is back to over 5K. I will keep checking the price range on a regular basis.

Some reviews here: Review of Sony FS700! Both parts now live!! | Philip Bloom (http://philipbloom.net/2012/05/25/240brighton/)

I love reviews, and I try my best to always check them out. They have a good bearing sometimes on how i learn toward or away from certain items. I don't rely solely on them but they do help.

Hey Arron,

If I remember correctly didn't you sell your kit lens? I thought you did because I suggested you keep it?

A new EA50 is $2,600.00 after rebate with a lens. I think $2,000.00 for a used EA50 body only might be optimistic???


Here in the States I'm really good at selling my equipment because i take such great great care of it. It is all about presentation, the better your presentation is the easier you can sell. What I may do and grab one of my Wife's cheap Canon Lens' and bundle it with an adapter. Presentation is everthing when selling online. I have sold quite a bit and understand the market pretty well. May not be 2K for just the body but it will be very close. I sold my Kit lens and got the Sigma 18-35mm F/1.8 which to me was a great swap.

Hi Steve

I guess if Aaron has limited his activities to non run 'n gun and is shooting from a tripod it doesn't really matter! My mate has an FS100 and with a small prime up front you can actually hand hold the camera with the grip and strap but put on a decent and practical lens and do run 'n gun and you definitely need a decent rig and like you I find them a pain and love the EA-50 form factor!

If I wanted to get a camera with a bigger sensor I think the FS100 would be good enough ..then again if you need a lot of super slomo the 700 is a better camera by far!

The EA50 is STILL and awesome camera with the right glass and I have no intention at this stage of changing mine ... I do weddings using just the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 lenses and my video light stays in the box.

I don't want to sway Aaron's thinking but for me TWO EA-50's with nice lenses for me is a better setup than having just one FS700 .... one could get a nice second cam and a couple of new lenses for the difference!

Chris

I have a Sony HDR AX2000 for my documentary and sports and also use as b-cam. I have the Canon 7D as a C cam and i use it in conjunction with my Benro A48TDS4 Video Monopod and get great close up and b roll shots. The EA is my main currently and moving up to a FS100 or FS700 will give me better footage. I do not consider my self a Run & Gun. I'm mainly using Tripods. There are times when i do like to take the cam off the tripod and get on the dance floor at receptions and also go around and get guests candidly at weddings but that is about it. There are a few other exceptions but everything else is done on tripod.

Got a chance to look at FS100 and FS700 Side By Side HERE (https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/productComparisonChart.do?URL=/bbsc/ssr/cat-nxcam/product-NEXFS100UK/&models=NEXFS700U,NEXFS100UK) Hmmm....

I did exactly the same Aaron

Keep the 18-35 if you sell your EA-50 as it will be a huge asset on either an FS100 or FS700 and the F1.8 will be even better at receptions!! I was also thinking about an FS100 when I still was using the stock lens as I was struggling at wedding venues but after getting the Sigma there was no need to change and the shoulder mount is so useful for run 'n gun shooting. Pity Sony didn't make an EA-60 with the FS sensor in it!!

You will notice with Phillip Bloom's review that he is using Canon glass too. I like slomo but it's not an essential ...the thing that concerns me though on the 700 is the camera can only put 9 seconds of video into the buffer at 240fps before it stops to write all that data to the card which means a 30 second wait before you shoot again! the Ultra slow feature that goes right up to 960 also means you lose a huge amount of vertical resolution. He mentions that as well.

If you have a real need for slomo then the 700 is the camera to get but I reckon the 100 would still be great at weddings especially with the Sigma on the front!!

Hi Aaron,

I am going to add my .2 cents. I am often blunt but I never intend to be critical, my posts are always well intentioned. I have followed every post you have made here at DVINFO. Guys like you are what make being a member of this community fun. You participate regularly (a lot of newbie’s ask a few questions and go away) ask good questions, and seem to appreciate our input. It is like watching you develop your business and style (yes, I check out your work).

Keep in mind I am an old school guy who has done this for over twenty years. I have a lot of old traits I stick to but I can still learn new tricks once in a while ;)

One of the old values I try to stick to is matching cameras and lenses. I am not a fix it in post guy. Every camera model and group of lenses has a unique “look”. I’m not even talking about better or worse I’m talking about “different”. This forum is littered with pixel peepers that will argue all day long about how they can see the difference between every codec, resolution, bit rate etc, etc and then you look at their work and it is obvious they have built what I call a Franken Kit. They shoot with mismatched cameras and lenses and every time the video cuts you see the look change. This is often still there even if they did try to fix it in post. Fixing mismatches in post is not a perfect world. You have said many times you want to expand out of shooting just weddings. Having matched footage is videography 101 in most professional environments. You already have three different cameras and a grab bag of lenses. I just don’t get it when anybody does that.

A camera is part of a system to me, it is not the beginning or the end. Every part of my system must work with every other part and contribute positively to the end product. Post production is time consuming at best. I shoot with post production in mind. That means if its garbage in it will be garbage out. So I try to get it right during acquisition. Time is money.

I was part of all those old posts when you and Chris were discussing your kit lens and manual lenses. I do not think I upset Chris when I say this, I have said it before, he has developed a style and a system that works for him and what he shoots. That is wonderful, but it is a unique and limited style. Even in his genre and yours, of weddings, you will not find the majority of shooters using ultra wide angle lenses for almost every shot they take. He will correct me if I am wrong but that is the impression I have from reading hundreds of his posts. When you sold your kit lens and went full manual with dumb adaptors you essentially crippled your EA50. The EA50 is a feature rich, highly electronic camera with major bang for the buck. You can no longer use a large amount of the features you paid for. I am not going to debate the quality of the kit lens, we have all done that over and over again. I am just saying it has its place. This is even more important. You say your fed up with adapters so you’re going to sell the body. The camera is not the problem, the dumb adapters are the problem. Using a Metabones smart adapter will get you back all of the functionality you discarded except AF. Please keep in mind they sell two versions. The speed booster for $600.00 and the regular smart adapter for $400.00 (not sure if that’s current price). Either one of them are worth it in my opinion. Even with that said, I shoot primarily with Canon glass and I am in manual modes most of the time. But I keep all of my options at my disposal.

You said “a FS100 or FS700 will improve the quality of my images”. Please explain that to me. I don’t see it happening. Even if you used the more advanced FPS, higher bit rate, better codec etc. features of those cameras how are you going to incorporate that into your “B” and “C” camera system. The system not only involves gear and codecs that need to work together it involves the end product. Are you delivering the vast majority of your product on SD DVDs? Will they really benefit from a FS700?

I do event coverage of all types and I need to be prepared to meet the needs of a wide variety of scenarios. Therefore I do not make equipment selections that put me in a box. On one hand you say you want to expand out of weddings, on the other you just said “90% of my shooting is from a tripod so I am OK with a box form factor”. I suggest you factor in the cost of “a rig” for the FS100 or FS700 as you ponder the transition because without one they are not designed to be a field camera. In fact, the FS700 is a cine camera, your B camera is a camcorder, and your C camera is a DSLR. Someday I can here you screaming BREATHE MONSTER, BREEEEEATH!!! I have a sense of humor ;)

A little more food for thought. I said I can learn new tricks. I recently broke two things I thought I would never do. I thought I would never need a handycam for anything. I also thought I would never buy a used camera. I recently picked up a used (new in open box, and it is) VG30 on e-bay. I bought it specifically to keep on my Black Bird so I would have something small and light I could handle there. Because of my stated preference for matched cameras the VG30 was the only option for me. I got more than I paid for! It has the same sensor as my EA50 and apparently the same or very similar processor. They are a perfect match as long as I put Canon glass or Sony kit lens on both of them. I use it for a B cam more than I thought I would, it is not just for the Black Bird. That is another advantage of the EA50, you can get matched B cams for $700.00 to $900.00 (body only) to me that is ridiculously cheap for a camera that shoots the same image as my EA50.

So, in summary I am suggesting you take a look at your whole system and your future needs. I just don’t see dumping an EA50 and moving to a FS700 producing a big net gain for you. And you will still have lens and adapter things to work out. But hey, that is why we have so many choices. We each must find what works for us!

Kind Regards,

Steve

Hi Steve

Absolutely not ..I totally agree with you ..both my EA-50's have been crippled with manual lenses! I used to love the LCD touch focus ..it was awesome and accurate. I often hit the preview last clip button and miss it and hit say button 3 and get the screen saying "This function is not available due to the condition of the lens" ... that's a function I might use more if I had an e-mount lens

Just realise that crippling the camera is a function of the job not the person! Weddings are in very low light and Sony simply don't make lenses that cover the range we need that are fast enough!! At weddings I'm working between 18 and 35mm cos that's as far as I ever get from people ..it's a close work environment and my EA-50's need F1.8 or F2 lenses to see in the dim lighting.

I could more than likely get an FS700 which would give me a 2 stop advantage so the stock lens would work perfectly BUT do I want to get a 700 and spend all that money?? Nope I really don't need the slomo features and the EA_50 still has way better form factor.

Here is my take on Aaron's dilemma!!

FS100 : Maybe 1 stop advantage on the sensor so it will still struggle at weddings so probably back to manual lenses
FS700 : 2 stop advantage so you could use stock 18-200 at weddings ... no other manual lenses needed but do you really need the slomo and big price??

EA-50 - Needs manual lenses at weddings but has a better form factor for shooting and cheaper.

What would I do?? Get a second EA-50 ... Having matched cameras like I do is the only way to go.

Chris

Hi Aaron,

I am going to add my .2 cents. I am often blunt but I never intend to be critical, my posts are always well intentioned. I have followed every post you have made here at DVINFO. Guys like you are what make being a member of this community fun. You participate regularly (a lot of newbie’s ask a few questions and go away) ask good questions, and seem to appreciate our input. It is like watching you develop your business and style (yes, I check out your work).

I appreciate that! I really do... I am a newbie that got into this business after shooting a horrible little skit of my son and then what i called post editing to make a horrible finished render made me feel as if i would like to learn more about Videography... I'm a rambunctious person a lot of times where i jump into things feet first and try and figure it out along the way. Also the main reason is to add more to my wife's business by adding videography to her services and it gives us a great way to spend time together on events and especially when we travel.

Keep in mind I am an old school guy who has done this for over twenty years. I have a lot of old traits I stick to but I can still learn new tricks once in a while ;)

One of the old values I try to stick to is matching cameras and lenses. I am not a fix it in post guy. Every camera model and group of lenses has a unique “look”. I’m not even talking about better or worse I’m talking about “different”. This forum is littered with pixel peepers that will argue all day long about how they can see the difference between every codec, resolution, bit rate etc, etc and then you look at their work and it is obvious they have built what I call a Franken Kit. They shoot with mismatched cameras and lenses and every time the video cuts you see the look change. This is often still there even if they did try to fix it in post. Fixing mismatches in post is not a perfect world. You have said many times you want to expand out of shooting just weddings. Having matched footage is videography 101 in most professional environments. You already have three different cameras and a grab bag of lenses. I just don’t get it when anybody does that.

Well, It was the way I got into this field that paved my thought process. When I started I had no one show me anything only what I learned in this forum, youtube, and my wife as an photographer with limited time. I'm pretty fortunate that I'm able to spend time at work watching some videos and bring my laptop in to work on a few things when we are not too busy. I try and apply those learning lessons in my project. I have to say that I know that I'm not a professional at all and do not claim to be. I'm feel that I am creative in post editing but still a beginner. This is all pretty new to me and I do it as a means to help my wife and also because i like making projects. I have these cams that are different from one another because I did not know any better. All the people that i know that do this type of work have mismatch cams. I only have a couple years in doing this and in those couple of years it is part time at best. I get great feedback from our clients as well as word of mouth referrals. Granted these are people that have no ideas what Videography is or what it should look like. On the same note I have fun working with these projects. They tell me all the time that we have shopped around and you guys do not charge enough. I get that alot. So i decided to try and find me a Videography class where i can start learning 101 up to what ever...

I was part of all those old posts when you and Chris were discussing your kit lens and manual lenses. I do not think I upset Chris when I say this, I have said it before, he has developed a style and a system that works for him and what he shoots. That is wonderful, but it is a unique and limited style. Even in his genre and yours, of weddings, you will not find the majority of shooters using ultra wide angle lenses for almost every shot they take. He will correct me if I am wrong but that is the impression I have from reading hundreds of his posts. When you sold your kit lens and went full manual with dumb adaptors you essentially crippled your EA50. The EA50 is a feature rich, highly electronic camera with major bang for the buck. You can no longer use a large amount of the features you paid for. I am not going to debate the quality of the kit lens, we have all done that over and over again. I am just saying it has its place. This is even more important. You say your fed up with adapters so you’re going to sell the body. The camera is not the problem, the dumb adapters are the problem. Using a Metabones smart adapter will get you back all of the functionality you discarded except AF. Please keep in mind they sell two versions. The speed booster for $600.00 and the regular smart adapter for $400.00 (not sure if that’s current price). Either one of them are worth it in my opinion. Even with that said, I shoot primarily with Canon glass and I am in manual modes most of the time. But I keep all of my options at my disposal.

I understand what you are saying here. I did not like the dumb adapter at all. I did test out the Viltrox and Commlite. I like the Viltrox better than the Commlite. I like that they adjust iris for my automatically. I just became better at manual focus with the EA. I used the dumb adapter a few times and could not get over the vignetting. It was only $40USD no biggy to me at all. I tried it and I did not like it. So now I still have the auto Iris adapters that I use and I like them much better. I always wanted to try the Metabones and I'm sure I will get one probably next mouth or sooner. I wanted to experience the different methodologies and strategies that I have read about here. I consider this place a wealth of knowledge to tap into. I'm extremely appreciative to you (Steven) and Chris as well as all the others that have allowed me to be a fly on the wall and listen to the conversations here. I have learned to take what I like and discard what i don't like or what does not fit me and my purpose.

You said “a FS100 or FS700 will improve the quality of my images”. Please explain that to me. I don’t see it happening. Even if you used the more advanced FPS, higher bit rate, better codec etc. features of those cameras how are you going to incorporate that into your “B” and “C” camera system. The system not only involves gear and codecs that need to work together it involves the end product. Are you delivering the vast majority of your product on SD DVDs? Will they really benefit from a FS700?

I do event coverage of all types and I need to be prepared to meet the needs of a wide variety of scenarios. Therefore I do not make equipment selections that put me in a box. On one hand you say you want to expand out of weddings, on the other you just said “90% of my shooting is from a tripod so I am OK with a box form factor”. I suggest you factor in the cost of “a rig” for the FS100 or FS700 as you ponder the transition because without one they are not designed to be a field camera. In fact, the FS700 is a cine camera, your B camera is a camcorder, and your C camera is a DSLR. Someday I can here you screaming BREATHE MONSTER, BREEEEEATH!!! I have a sense of humor ;)

I shoot and render projects on DVD's and Blu-Ray. What I mean by improve the quality of my shots is first Low Light Performance. I see the FS100 is better in this regard. The FS700 has the higher frame rate that is good for slow motion. I love slow motion and i like to include in my projects when I can. Also the FS700 has the built in ND Filters which will help me be free of extra steps when shooting outside. My AX2000 is pretty nice in this regard and helps me when I'm outside shooting PSA's or events. Again, being a beginner I really can not tell you the correct meaning of A, B, C cams, but for me it is the A cam is my main shooter it is the the cam that I'm intending on using for the main shots. B-Cam is my cam i use to get some main cam shots at a different angle and also b-roll shots that I can not get wile using the A-Cam simultaneously. My C-Cam I just got a month or two ago which really is a hand me down from my wife after i got her a Canon 1DX. I wanted to take chances with this cam get shots that will get me some different perspectives. It is the one where if i do not get any good footage on it it does not make or break my strategy or plan. My strategy is always based on my ability to post edit. I see certain things and I want to bring them out by switching from A to B cam in post. a lot of times there are things going on simultaneously and it is important to me to be able to capture that. You mentioned about not being pigeonholed and ready for different scenarios, well in weddings there are always unforeseen things, at least when it comes to me, that I encounter so i have to be ready for those as well. In my little experience and after maybe 20 weddings i find that brides prefer the close shots with wide angles. They want to be the center of the attention but want the there immediate surroundings as well so they can see what is going on. This is what i try and provide. I try and be as close as i can and at the same time get the immediate environment as well. To me this is where style, opinion, preference, and all that comes into play. It is what separates one videographer from another, that is if we can say they both are similar in how they capture with settings and so on.

I'm definitely appreciative to you all that have contributed to this forum and added your insight. For someone like me that is awesome. Again I'm now seeking to get some schooling in this area as I see I really like it.

Good response Aaron!

You have to remember that us oldies tend to "shoot for editing" I have seen some raw footage from a guy using a DSLR at a ceremony and I nearly fell over ..he had probably 50 short clips mostly out of focus and he was attempting to use maybe 10% of the footage in post.

Shooting correctly on site saves hundreds of post hours. I can sometimes "top and tail" my clips and that's it!! If you have gear that works well at the shoot you limit post hours which is the way to go and also the way to make a decent profit!!

Even as a photog I frame very carefully but my wife (my wedding photog on dual packages) frames a lot wider by habit ...I can often skip thru 100 still shots and not have to crop any ..she has to crop maybe 80% ..do the same with video and you save a LOT of time.

Oh dear! Adapters are a curse yes but I have yet to see an adapter that works perfectly like it's not there ...Pete Rush is using the Metabones too but often reports the iris jumps a bit when changing. That's why I use a dumb adapter and I don't see any issue why you guys think it's bad?? The EA-50 still gives me auto exposure with a dumb adapter ...I can just let it do it's thing OR I can turn my adapter lens ring if I don't want a high shutter/ wide aperture .... It's a simple twist of a ring before you shoot so I really cannot see where a fully auto adapter is any better. As for focus even the camera with the stock lens is fussy in low light ..I have many clips taken on the fly with camera in full auto and you can see fuzzy faces or the focus pumping and hunting to try and get a sharp image.

Like Steve I still think that two matched cameras are far better than saying "what can I use for a B-Cam" I never have issues with cutaways or where my A-Cam is blocked and I have to jump in with the B-Cam

If you are still considering weddings I still would not look at one camera as a replacement but two identical ones

Chris

If you are still considering weddings I still would not look at one camera as a replacement but two identical ones

Chris

Agreed!! I was thinking about this as I was reading through Steven's response. The Canon EOS 7D was a cam that I got from my wife as I stated above. She has the Canon 5D Mark III & now the 1DX. So she is pretty set. Now that i have her set i can now put more attention to my little Sanford & Son equipment. I began with the AX2000 as my A-cam and I had a Canon Gh20 as a B-Cam. I got rid of the small GH20 and got the EA50 and now that is my new A-cam. I still have the AX2000 because it served me well with PSA's and sport events. And so now the 7D is added to my pile of misfit toys. Now I'm looking to straighten out my equipment and develop a plan. I have been trying this and that to see what i like best. So when i started this thread I had already decided to leave the EA and move to something a little better and build around that. So this is where I am so far.

I will respond in more detail later.

Chris and I do often agree on a lot of things. Not that it makes good sense ; )

Aaron, I know far too many guys in your position that have chased technology instead of talent and true knowledge. It is always going to be the latest camera or piece of gear that makes them better. Yet they never learned how to shoot in the first place. All the money and tech in the world can't save them. Don't answer this question to me. Ask yourself where you skills are at? If you are as new as you say I suspect there may be much you can do to improve your product without spending more than an EA50 can do. Do you WANT a new camera or do you want to shoot better? It is a rhetorical question, think about it.....

Steve

I will respond in more detail later.

Chris and I do often agree on a lot of things. Not that it makes good sense ; )

Aaron, I know far too many guys in your position that have chased technology instead of talent and true knowledge. It is always going to be the latest camera or piece of gear that makes them better. Yet they never learned how to shoot in the first place. All the money and tech in the world can't save them. Don't answer this question to me. Ask yourself where you skills are at? If you are as new as you say I suspect there may be much you can do to improve your product without spending more than an EA50 can do. Do you WANT a new camera or do you want to shoot better? It is a rhetorical question, think about it.....

Steve

I want both... I know you said rhetorical, but... The truth is I really like it. I like trying to come up with a plan of action and how to capture what the client is asking for. I like editing as well, i like being creative in post and bring out something abstract sometimes when my limited skill can try and do so for the client. I'm priced extremely affordable and what i give my clients is pretty awesome for what they pay. In the mean time I'm always trying to get better. i want to shoot better, i want to experiment with all different kinds of tech. I'm a techy at heart. So as of lately I'm looking to get some classes for videography to learn to shoot better. I want to understand on the level that you guys do. I want to know the exact reason why I adjust this knob and that setting. right now a know few things but i want to learn more. I have alot creative ideas i would like to get out into projects but do not know how to accomplish them. I wish i stayed down the street from one of you guys and i would pay you to teach the basics. Anyway for now i will try and pick up a few classes that can give me some insight and help my overall product. At the same time I love tech toys and playing with them. By playing with them is how I get certain ideas and certain illuminations. Well that is just me anyway. One day I will look back and say i have 20 + years in the business... I'm a Electrician by trade and I have a great job. But i really like working on video projects. One day I will retire my electrical job and hope to be more full time doing video work.

I am positive that manufactures prey on tech heads for sales nowdays! "Look at the all new features, shoot in 4K and see all the outstanding features" means nothing if the operator expects to press the record button and get a perfect shoot! I try not to pixel peep my footage BUT I do try to get shots that reflect the day and are filled with emotion. The sad thing is that many many videographers do not have any basic film making skills at all ... in fact often it's "wow, my DSLR shoots video so I'm a videographer now" You can see this a mile off on cinematic weddings where the shot is a stills inspired shot from a photographer turned videographer and although they have a good stills skill set they lack so much when it comes to film making. I wonder how many videographers know what eyeline, leading and looking space is? As good as one thinks they are, going back to basics can easily trigger "I didn't know that" comments.

However this IS a tech forum not a skills forum so everyone likes to talk about resolution, bitrates and such rather than techniques and rules. I got a comment on the wedding forum just the other day because I mentioned that content was way more important than resolution.

...As good as one thinks they are, going back to basics can easily trigger "I didn't know that" comments.

However this IS a tech forum not a skills forum so everyone likes to talk about resolution, bitrates and such rather than techniques and rules. I got a comment on the wedding forum just the other day because I mentioned that content was way more important than resolution.

Interesting... What is eyeline? LOL!! For that matter what is leading and looking space? LOL!! These are some of the reasons why I want to take some classes. So hopefully I will be enrolled shortly.

Hi Aaron

Take a quick look at this site and see if there is anything that you did not know already?

Free Online Film School in 12 Filmmaking Tips (http://www.lavideofilmmaker.com/filmmaking/filmmaking-tips.html)

There are lots of sites and videos out there about what I call "movie making" and a lot apply to weddings if you think about it. For me the camera movement is so important especially if you have come from a stills background. Even silly things that we forget like the focus section ? Do you focus peak on eyes all the time?

Chris

Hi Aaron,
Like you, I am still learning and want to shift toward new and creative techniques. One of the the best things I ever did was to take a short non-credit class about lighting for film. It was taught by a gaffer (or electrician) who works in the film industry.
We looked at footage from films and he explained how they probably set up the lights. I've never looked at films the same way. I'm trying to use the camera I have, but learn to be more thoughtful in using light.
It is a low-tech approach—but I do like dreaming about new cameras and lenses.
I like the concept of matching cameras as a system, as Steven & Chris have said.

Hi Aaron

Eyeline refers to where the person's eyes are on the image. They are supposed to be on the upper third for maximum effect... check out newsreaders on TV and see where their eyeline is on the screen. I assume you have come to grips with the rule of thirds already.

If you have someone static in a frame and they are looking at an out of frame object to their left you need to provide "looking space" so they are naturally placed on the left of the frame so there is a big space between them and the object you cannot see ....place them on the right of the frame and see how stupid it looks .... obviously in the continuity flow one would then cut to the object/person as the viewer expects that.

Leading space is much the same so you would leave more space in front of a person walking across the frame than you would behind them.

Of course the number one rule is : Rules are made to be broken.. but not all the time! Check out a few online film making techniques (that's filmmaking NOT DSLR filming) You will be amazed what you will pick up that makes absolute sense and your shoots will look better too!!

Chris

Hi Aaron,
Like you, I am still learning and want to shift toward new and creative techniques. One of the the best things I ever did was to take a short non-credit class about lighting for film. It was taught by a gaffer (or electrician) who works in the film industry.
We looked at footage from films and he explained how they probably set up the lights. I've never looked at films the same way. I'm trying to use the camera I have, but learn to be more thoughtful in using light.
It is a low-tech approach—but I do like dreaming about new cameras and lenses.
I like the concept of matching cameras as a system, as Steven & Chris have said.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the tips. Yes i love new and innovative ways to doing something. I have learned that you find your nitch by trying different things and seeing how they come out. i have stumbled up on lots of different editing tips this way.


Hi Aaron

Eyeline refers to where the person's eyes are on the image. They are supposed to be on the upper third for maximum effect... check out newsreaders on TV and see where their eyeline is on the screen. I assume you have come to grips with the rule of thirds already.

If you have someone static in a frame and they are looking at an out of frame object to their left you need to provide "looking space" so they are naturally placed on the left of the frame so there is a big space between them and the object you cannot see ....place them on the right of the frame and see how stupid it looks .... obviously in the continuity flow one would then cut to the object/person as the viewer expects that.

Leading space is much the same so you would leave more space in front of a person walking across the frame than you would behind them.

Of course the number one rule is : Rules are made to be broken.. but not all the time! Check out a few online film making techniques (that's filmmaking NOT DSLR filming) You will be amazed what you will pick up that makes absolute sense and your shoots will look better too!!

Chris
Thanks Chris, as soon as I saw your first post about them I went and looked them up. I'm benefiting a lot from guys and i know for sure that I'm getting better by frequenting this forum. Extremely valuable advice and insight. I get to sift through some 20 year vets' experience and strategies to get more insight, that is awesome.

Yes, rule of the thirds was one of the first things I learned when I tried my first short. (http://www.ilevideos.com/?p=2750) a year and a half ago. I had a cinematographer come by my house and rip it to shreds and tell me what he liked, the industry rules that I broke, and what I could do to make improvements. the rule of thirds was my first lesson... LOL!

Always happy to help and learn too.. you are never too old to learn but remember that you also don't have to do things "by the book" .. breaking the rules often works too but it's still good to know the accepted way of doing things even if you are going to ignore them. Weddings again are often situations where you simply don't have the time nor space to apply rules ..you just have to get the shot often from a position which is totally unsuitable!

What have you decided about cameras? If there is a hire facility in your area (or a friend with one model you are considering) see if you can try them out? My mate has an FS100 ...it's quite usable without any rig (just using a handgrip but I think it might have been a killer with the big Sigma on the front! Just for interest there is also a mod you can do on all the Sony's (ea50, FS100 and 700) to the loupe tube which shortens it and makes it a lot nicer to use! Both my loupe's are shortened!!

I compared the FS100 with an 18-200 stock lens on it with my EA-50 with the Sigma F1.8 and low light on the 50 was still better even though the FS100 has a better sensor so it's also going to influence your decision with what lenses you use .. on Phillip Bloom's review I think you already noticed he was using a huge Canon lens??

Hi Chris,

As I ponder the whole thing and looking at price ranges and also taking into scope the advice I have received. I decided to go with the FS100 but I'm thinking about keeping the EA and maybe chucking the Canon 7D. I will not get as much for it but i think that it would the best for my system.

My AX2000 is pretty valuable because I send out a guy with it to do my Engagement sessions, sports, PSA's, and certain events. It is easy to use and the 1/3 sensor works great for what I need. So i would like to keep that one. My EA would work well with the FS100. So that leaves the odd man out Canon 7D. I played with it a bit and it works pretty well. I really like the way I'm able to use it on my Benro Monopod.

Well this is my dilemma as of now and looking to get myself in a better position when it comes to Post editing. It is a bear sometimes trying to match the footage from one cam to the next. At least with the AX2000, EA50, & FS100 i can adjust picture profiles to get closer. At least it will work better until I'm ready to make my next move and probably upgrade my EA to a second FS.

However this IS a tech forum not a skills forum so everyone likes to talk about resolution, bitrates and such rather than techniques and rules.

I've always envisioned this site as being about *both* and I wouldn't mind a concentrated group effort to make it as much or more about technique than technicality. But regardless of whatever I had in mind when I started this thing, ultimately it is what *you* make it to be.

I got a comment on the wedding forum just the other day because I mentioned that content was way more important than resolution.

Here?! The hell you say. "Content is King" has always been my mantra and I've been thinking for a long time about making that the catchphrase of the site. If I had seen that comment, I would have shamed it. You and I both know you were right to state it -- converting the pixel-peepers to come to that realization should be our mutual mission here.

I opened the wedding & event video forum as a place to discuss content and technique specifically! Dammit!

Hi Chris

I'm with you all the way 100% ... content is so important and techniques too ..way in front of "What camera are you using and what format " or "Will my weddings be better if I spend another $10K"

Seriously scroll thru the wedding forum and you will see the "shout down" on posts where anyone mentioned content and techniques .... I got absolutely ripped to sheds a little while back because I "shot in 50i when 50P was available" I too get very tired about "You have to shoot at 50mbps and the highest possible resolution with the most expensive camera" .... It's still, and always be, "It's not the camera but the person behind the camera"

I sincerely try my best NOT to be a tech head here as I'm far more interested in techniques than tech stuff.

Maybe people who struggle with techniques but are tech savvy find it easier to post technically related posts as they are more comfortable with it??


A few posts down here gives you an idea : http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/526592-turning-point-video-photo-packages-8.html

Chris

I just delivered a video with a killer shot of the bride doing an impromptu twirl - she loves the video immensely - guess what - that shot's soft!

Content is king without a doubt, having said that, it needs to be balanced with overall good technical presentation. The argument about always using the best equipment doesn't hold water for me, with the cheapest Ikegami broadcast camcorder coming in at around £20k and Sony's broadcast range in a similar price field there's no way a wedding film business, unless you are really high end, could justify those prices - hell I'll just go out and buy an Arriflex!!!

I have 3 CX730 cameras always in use at weddings which are pretty much similar that something uncle Bob might use, I also have my EA50 and A7s that sets me apart a little and allows me to get the shots uncle Bob can't. As long as I'm a few steps ahead of uncle Bob regarding the technology, I'm happy :)

I have 3 CX730 cameras always in use at weddings which are pretty much similar that something uncle Bob might use

Those 730's are becoming a collectors item! I still have 2 of them that extensively get used at the weddings I shoot, one of my wedding clients asked what type camera it was after seeing me shoot their ceremony in the church and having viewed the result later on in HD, he was so surprised about the quality of those little camera's he bought one for themselves to film his children and holiday's, saw him a year later at another wedding and the first thing he was talking about was how happy he was with that camera. :)

I also have my EA50 and A7s that sets me apart a little and allows me to get the shots uncle Bob can't. As long as I'm a few steps ahead of uncle Bob regarding the technology, I'm happy :)

It's not the camera that counts because uncle Bob can also show up with a 5D at a wedding, it's how you use it that matters, that's what differentiates the amateurs from the professionals.

I wouldn't go the C100 route (personally). What it costs and the (somewhat) lacking features just kills it for me. One of the companies I freelance for out here insists I shoot with one when I work for them so I use one of the C100s they have. The things I do like about it are:

Built in ND Filters
Waveform Monitor
Down-sampled 4K sensor to HD does produce a lovely image

I recently (last year) upgraded from my NEX-EA50 to a Sony FS100...picked an FS100 body only for the amazing price of $1,200. I've done a side by side and with the right picture profile the FS100 matches the C100 nicely. The FS is great in lowlight and there's the adaptability of the E-Mount. The only drawback is the lack of built in NDs but that's not a dealbreaker for me. I don't think the price of the C100 justifies the camera you get for it...at it's pricepoint 4K should at least be an option.

My advice, if you don't have a need for 4K, get an FS100, I'm just amazed at the image that camera pumps out every time I use it. Having a dedicated video sensor vs. the DSLR sensor in the EA50 really makes a difference.

If you have a need for 4K in the future or just want to future proof, the FS700 has dropped and I believe is around $5K+ or you could pick up the new FS7 which I've only heard great things about.

Thank you for the advice. the plan is to grab the FS100 for now and then I will upgrade other cams as i can. SO the Canon 7D is history and I will usher in the FS100 to compliment my EA, & AX2000. This is the route I will take right now.

recently (last year) upgraded from my NEX-EA50 to a Sony FS100...picked an FS100 body only for the amazing price of $1,200.

How did you manage to get it for that price, WOW!!

Hi Aaron

Just a heads up that Sony Australia show the FS100 (both versions with lens or body only) as discontinued products ...that's a little worrying I would think ..the FS700 has been replaced with the 4K version but that's still current but I don't see any cameras on their site that covers the FS100??? Maybe that's why they were cheap?? The EA-50 funnily enough is a current model on the website and my Sony Pro supplier of course has them BUT also doesn't list any FS100's any more .... Maybe you need to wait and see what happens in the next few months???

Chris

Hi Aaron

Just a heads up that Sony Australia show the FS100 (both versions with lens or body only) as discontinued products ...that's a little worrying I would think ..the FS700 has been replaced with the 4K version but that's still current but I don't see any cameras on their site that covers the FS100??? Maybe that's why they were cheap?? The EA-50 funnily enough is a current model on the website and my Sony Pro supplier of course has them BUT also doesn't list any FS100's any more .... Maybe you need to wait and see what happens in the next few months???

Chris

Just out of curiosity what would be the downside to getting a FS100 that is no longer listed or supported? The obvious thing that comes to mind is a new cam to replace it. The FS100 is still a good camera with good functionality. Just curious to what the reasoning is...

Hi Aaron

I have no idea at all! Yes, it seems to have it's place in the market but the price was slashed a few months back which tends to indicate that they will stop making it ...It's usually a sales thing ..if they are selling enough to make production worth while then it gets discontinued.

There is no issue at all with buying discontinued models ... they normally sell at a bargain price right at the end and Sony will still support them. I saw an advice on their pro site saying that support will end for Sony Pro VTR's in 2023 and they stopped making those many years ago.

I must admit I still prefer the EA-50 form factor ... I'd love to know if anyone has an M model with the new sensor which is the same size chip as the FS100 but still not as fast! Sony dropped the FS100 price only a few months ago and it's still current on the US website but based on what we have seen here it will be discontinued but whether Sony will replace it with an FS200 ...only time will tell!!!

Chris

The bottom line is functionality. If a camera does everything YOU need it to do and will continue to meet those needs for a reasonable amount of time then it is a good camera for you. It does not matter what new features are out there on the new stuff if you don't need it.

With each new release, that seems to come down the pipe at an astonishing rate these days, there are really very few game changers. It is mostly upgrades in features. Unless you are a gear head that is bothered by not owning the latest and greatest for the sake of ownership, few of them really matter.

Game changers are things like major format overhauls like 4K. Of course it is here and eventually going to be required for all of us. But how many years is that going to take? I don't have a crystal ball so just look at HD. After all these years of us working in HD it seams most of the wedding shooters are still delivering in SD DVD and HD options. Go figure? In the US all broadcasting is in HD. There is an HD TV in the vast majority of American homes. But for some weird reason Blue Ray players never took off the way they should have. The majority of those HD TVs still have a SD DVD player hooked up to them. Hence your DVD deliveries all the way out here in 2015.

I suggest you ask yourself what will work best to help you deliver your product? It won't do any good to worry about what might come out next month or the month after that. Also, new models that are on par with their predecessor are rarely cheaper, they are always more.

If the FS100 meets your needs you can benefit greatly from the reduced price if you move quickly.

Aaron, it is all about what works for you. Get what you need and don't look back ;)

Steven

Edit: I just looked. B&H has the FS100 in stock for $2,499.00 and it comes with a rebate for the Metabones MK4 Canon EF adapter. That is a $400.00 adapter that will work with your Canon lenses! All that is a smoking deal.

Hey Steve

In fact the FS100 and B&H is actually $200 CHEAPER than the EA-50M now PLUS with the FS100 you get a Metabones too ..That's on fire not smoking !! My issue always seems to be when I have spare funds floating around, there are no deals around then they all surface when money is tight!!

If you have the cash in your account Aaron this would be the best time to get an FS100 ..I very much doubt whether you will ever see those prices again!!

Chris

A little more food for thought. I said I can learn new tricks. I recently broke two things I thought I would never do. I thought I would never need a handycam for anything. I also thought I would never buy a used camera. I recently picked up a used (new in open box, and it is) VG30 on e-bay. I bought it specifically to keep on my Black Bird so I would have something small and light I could handle there. Because of my stated preference for matched cameras the VG30 was the only option for me. I got more than I paid for! It has the same sensor as my EA50 and apparently the same or very similar processor. They are a perfect match as long as I put Canon glass or Sony kit lens on both of them. I use it for a B cam more than I thought I would, it is not just for the Black Bird. That is another advantage of the EA50, you can get matched B cams for $700.00 to $900.00 (body only) to me that is ridiculously cheap for a camera that shoots the same image as my EA50.

Not sure if anyone cares but the VG30 Steve mentioned is on sale on Ebay right now (body only) $1200. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Handycam-NEX-VG30-Camcorder-Black/181680084538?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D0f1401ad29674012b2 654f1770537df4%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D181680084538%26clkid%3D4456754175290805651&_qi=RTM1963929)

Hey Aaron

What progress are you making on the new FS100 acquisition??? I don't think that deal will be around too long and we are anxiously waiting to hear what you think about the camera!!

Chris

There are already so many fs100 videos out there showcasing the camera's capabilities, it's not as if this camera came out yesterday :)

Yes Noa I know that

I want to know what Aaron thinks about the camera after owning an EA-50 ..his personal thoughts not some review telling you how wonderful it is. When he gets it of course..no big rush.

Aaron,

The link you placed to the $1,200.00 VG30 is high. And he is including a $400.00 dollar Metabones adapter. If you "watch" them you will see them for much less.

Steve

No I have not pulled the trigger as of yet. I have been watching the prices and looking and looking. I guess I got a little gun shy. I have been rehearsing some of the things that was said earlier in this thread and trying to make sure a new upgrade was worth the spending to get it. In the meant time I sold the Canon 7D and I have my Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 lens for sale right now waiting on it to go. Just taking a look at what I have and where I want to go with my equipment. I think I'm on the right track with Sony after some reasoning with my self. I'm taking off for a Wedding Professionals Convention this month and I was trying to see if I should grab the cam before or after my trip.

Also with the FS100 I decided to grab one that has the stock lens with it. So that I can see how it fairs and it will give me a third lens as well. So as of right now I have the the Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 and the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8. The sigma is on the chopping block as we speak.